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Tim Melanson: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. Today’s episode, we are talking to the director of New Zealand Property Buyers, and what he does is he reduces the complexity, uh, of purchasing property. So I’m very excited to be rocking out today with Hadley Nightingale. Hey Hadley, are you ready to rock?

Hadley Nightingal: Hey Tim, ready to rock. Thanks for having me

Tim Melanson: Awesome. We always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, I mean, I, I think probably where we, where we are at the moment as a business, and as you say, working from home is, is probably that, that success story. Um, you know, starting out COVID time and, you know, obviously things were locked down, things were pretty tough, and just decided we were gonna go on and start something.

Um, and then the, uh, the day that we decided to start something, everything was good. Three days later was, was lockdown time. And so it’s just been a case of, you know, starting from there, working out how to, uh, you know, set up work from home as a, as a thing. Uh, and then grow a team and the, the background with that at the same time.

Tim Melanson: Wow, [00:01:00] that’s quite the timing

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah. Yeah. Couldn’t have, couldn’t have picked it any better

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, I mean, I guess you got to start from nothing, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Tim Melanson: create something that’ll last anything, that’ll l- right?

Hadley Nightingal: Let’s, let’s, let’s definitely hope so. I mean, still figuring out what Zoom was at the, uh, at the time, and now it’s like, it’s commonplace. So yeah, very, uh, very interesting, uh, start to things

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it’s interesting ’cause I, I mean, I started the podcast, uh, about 11 years ago, and I remember saying that, you know, at some point, you know, I think, I think almost everybody will be working from home, and I didn’t see that that, that that’s gonna be forced on us like that. Um, but yeah, it’s, uh, it’s kind of interesting ’cause it, it did actually, uh, do some good things.

It, it ended up, you know, developing some of these tools, these Zoom tools that, um, I mean, they help just about any business owner now. I mean, you can, you can have some really good, uh, productive meetings now that we have these tools, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, 100%. I mean, a, a number of our [00:02:00] clients are, are overseas, uh, or ex- expat Kiwis, and it, it’s great to be able to jump on Zoom, see them face-to-face. And I think without that technology, it would’ve made growing the business and reaching them, uh, a heck of a lot harder, uh, as opposed to, you know, trying to pick the phone up and, uh, and do business without the, um, the details in front of you, or at least meeting the person as, as face-to-face as you can

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. So now along with the good note though, sometimes there are things that don’t necessarily go as planned, some, some bad notes that we hit. I like to talk about those because, I mean, the whole point here is to inspire people to start their own thing, and a lot of people don’t do it because they’re just afraid of making some mistakes.

So I like to talk about those ’cause we’re still here, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah,

Tim Melanson: And I’m wondering, can you share me with, with me something that didn’t go, uh, super well that we can, we can learn from?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, I mean, I, I think the biggest thing for us that it, it’s come right now, but at the start was probably a mistake that, that could have been fatal for us, um, was, [00:03:00] was we went way too wide way too early. So we started out with the core business that we’ve got, and then, uh, one of our clients said, "Hey, look, if you start, do some property management, then I’ll give you some properties to start, and then you can grow a property management business."

Then the same guy said to me, "Hey, look, can you do… I’ve got these projects going on. Can you start a project management company?" Now, at the time, the, our, our main thing was doing, like, 350 to 400K a year. Uh, and then I had an employee that I was paying sort of 80K a year too. So most of the profit from that was gone.

Then I decided I was gonna start something else. So then I split myself between two, which is never good. Uh, and then we ended up trying to split myself into three with then trying to hire people for those other things. So my theory was, was, like, if I can hit 350K or 330K in each, then, you know, there’s a million-dollar business and I’m, I’m laughing.

But the, uh, the thing is that the math doesn’t quite work like that. When you, uh, actually run it out, you find that one [00:04:00] makes money, the other one goes okay, and the third one sucks all the money out of the business. Um, so yeah, that was, that was probably the, the bad note. But like I say, we’ve had… That was sort of four years ago now, so we’ve had time to, to outgrow that

Tim Melanson: Okay. And have you made any changes? Like, what, what would you do differently if you were to do it again?

Hadley Nightingal: I had to, if we were to do it again, it’d just be like one course until successful. So get one to a million bucks and then put the next one in. I suppose that it’s like that journey between zero and, and a million is like you can’t do everything yourself. You’ve gotta hire some people, uh, and you’ve gotta learn to, to grow a team.

And then so get that to a million bucks, get one functioning, and then start the next thing, because then you’ve got some excess cash flow to go and start that as well. Uh, as opposed to, you know, just being in a situation where you, you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul and then back again when the other one starts doing a bit better to, to try and keep yourself afloat

Tim Melanson: Yeah, well, you’re spinning multiple plates at the same [00:05:00] time, right? You’re, you’re diverting your focus from one thing to another. Uh, th- this has come up before because, I mean, when you look at some of these, uh, you know, super successful entrepreneurs, you see that they’re running all these different businesses, and you’re like, "Wow, I could do that too."

But I think what you find if you really do read the stories and learn about them is that they build one at a time, right? And it was just they got it to the point where they could walk away from it. Now they have all these different businesses, but they didn’t build them all at the same time, right?

Hadley Nightingal: No, exactly. And I think the other thing is too though that they’ve also got the cash flow to be able to go, "Right, cool, I’m gonna start this new thing. I’m just gonna go hire a CEO off the bat." Uh, whereas when you’re, when you’re fresh and you haven’t got that, you haven’t got the money to, you know, you’ve hardly got the money to hire an EA, let alone a, uh, you know, a CEO for something

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. So let’s talk a little bit about the band then. So w- what, you know, uh, you’ve got a team now. You know, who was the first hire that you made actually, out of curiosity?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah. Yeah, so first, the first hire that we [00:06:00] made was someone that took over the delivery of, uh, my role. And I suppose in hindsight, at the time it was, uh, you know, the, the right hire. But I look back now from like a, a view from where we are and go, "Well, that was actually the wrong one." Uh, ’cause we were paying someone way too much for…

Or we weren’t paying them so much, we were paying them the money they, they should’ve been on at the time. Uh, but the issue was the business was still too immature to be paying someone that amount while I’m, was still doing the calendar, the emails, the, uh, you know, the basic running around, booking whatever I needed to be booked.

Uh, and then that person was out doing my job. So that was, that was how the team started, was myself and one other person. Uh, and then as we brought on the other parts of the business, we’ve added people in. And then now we’ve got a, uh, a full back office team in the Philippines as well. So there’s about 13 of us, uh, at the, at the moment.

Tim Melanson: Well, how was your experience in hiring overseas?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, [00:07:00] it, it was definitely an experience because at the time, uh, I didn’t have SOP sorted out. I didn’t have proper systems. It was once again, like, just if, if I’m gonna employ you, and this is just how naive I was at the, the time, it’s like, you know, look, if, if I employ you as a, as a, an EA or as a salesman, you should just be able to know how to be a salesperson ’cause that’s what you’ve applied for and that’s what you do.

Uh, and, and turns out that doesn’t, that doesn’t quite come to, to fruition and, and translate directly. So, uh, probably the, the first couple of EA or overseas, uh, EAs that I had w- were, uh, didn’t work out, and that was more so probably on me than them. And ju- just from that perspective, ’cause they had no basis to work off.

It was a case of like, "Well, look, you’re, you’re working with us. Here’s, uh, here’s Slack, here’s your Zoom link, here’s Google Drive. Go for it." Um, without near that sort of true direction. So it’s, it was challenging at the start. We’ve got a lot better now ’cause we’ve got the systems and the processes in place, and we’re just going through another [00:08:00] hiring round, uh, overseas at the moment.

But it’s, it’s just a thing of, like, taking your time, making sure that the, the people that you’re interviewing, uh, are gonna do the job, um, and then trial tasking everything that, that they do before we actually get them on board to, to know how… Well, to get an idea of how they think

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, it’s, it’s, um, it’s more challenging than you think, right? You, you think, "Oh, I just need to get this off my plate, and, you know, they’ll just be able to figure it out." But it turns out you… ‘Cause everybody does their business differently, right? You mean, you do have to do some training on that stuff, right?

And be prepared for it.

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, I mean 100%. It’s, it’s a whole lot easier now with the, the likes of Loom or a screen recording tool and, and AI to be able to just record yourself doing the task, give it to AI, or give the transcript to AI, get it to write the, um, the SOP for it, and you, you’ve got something there as opposed to…

I had, I had a mentor, uh, a few years ago, and he said to me, "Look," and this is before AI was really a thing. He’s like, "Look, just get up at 4:00 o’clock in the morning." [00:09:00] He said, "This is gonna be painful for you. You’re gonna hate it, but just write everything down so you start building up some SOPs so at least some of your team know what’s gonna happen."

Because, and I couldn’t see it at the time, but he was like, "The better systems you have, the better people you’ll get. You can’t expect to have rockstar people with rubbish systems." Um, yeah

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, and, and, uh, and I do find that as well, the other thing is when you start to record yourself doing these tasks for these SOPs, sometimes, like, you, you… Uh, it’s almost like you uncover some issues that in your own process, right? ‘Cause when you’re trying to teach somebody else what you do, you’re like, "Why do I even do it that way?"

Right? And, and you sort of clean some things up in the process, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, 100%. And I think when it’s with video as well is that it also makes it easier for people to change, or that, that process becomes easier so that when someone owns the task and they own the SOP and a software changes or the software’s updated or we find a better way to do something, then it literally is a case of just record another video, [00:10:00] give the transcript, get things updated that way as opposed to, uh, yeah, like when we first started, we hired a full-time SOP lady, and it was a case of like open up a tab, screenshot, screenshot, screenshot, copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste, uh, as opposed to now it’s like video link SOP and it, it’s there and it’s easy to, to change when needed.

Tim Melanson: Mm, right on. Cool. So now talking about, uh, like the cashflow, I mean, depending on your business, I mean, for a service business, you know, uh, you know, y- it’s your time that’s mostly being spent. I mean, there are some things that you have to buy as well. But I mean, in a, in a thing like real estate where you’re actually putting some money out there, how do you make sure that you’re gonna make it back?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, I, I think the, the big thing with that is just, like, it’s time, it’s skill, it’s, uh, getting the right help, getting the right teachers to, to know that you’re, you’re going in the, the right direction. And I, I think the thing with real estate too is, like, there’s so much information out there. Uh, everyone’s got an opinion on housing because they’ve obviously lived in one, and, um, [00:11:00] that’s the, that’s really the, the tricky thing is, like, boring generally tends to be the thing that makes you money in this game, uh, as opposed to the, the s- the, you know, as opposed to the sexy property that, uh, the developers or the person selling it to you generally tends to be the one that’s making the cash, and you get left, um, you know, holding the can

Tim Melanson: Wow. Yeah. Well, and I, I think that that’s the thing is that the more, hmm, the more common the, you know, product or services that you have, the more opinions you’re gonna have from people out there, right? So it’s probably very, very difficult to find the, you know, proper experts. And, and, and how do you find the proper expert, I guess?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, I, I think the biggest thing i- is finding people that are telling you about what they have done in their own personal experience. Um, because it, it’s really easy to be a charlatan and say, "Hey, look, I’ve watched 500 YouTube videos and, and now I’m an expert," but they haven’t done anything. They don’t own anything.

Uh, and I think that’s the, you know, the other side of it as well and, and finding people that are relatable to, you know, to you, to what you’re [00:12:00] doing, to what you’re looking for. Um, as, yeah, as I say, as opposed to a, a YouTube expert who, you know, is out there telling you about all these things but actually haven’t done anything themselves.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, g- yeah

Hadley Nightingal: I was gonna say, sorry, the, the other expert you’ve gotta be careful of is also your drunk uncle, uh, and your, and your family members that have bought a house 20 years ago, uh, haven’t been in the market and, uh, you know, they’ve, they’ve also got very strong opinions on, on everything as well obviously with, with, you know, wanting your best interest at heart.

Um, but that’s, you know, sort of not always the, the best advice either

Tim Melanson: Well, I mean, the, uh, even the intention when they buy a house, I mean, when someone buys a house to live in versus a house that they want to rent out or they want to flip or whatever it is, it’s just, I think it would probably just be a different process, like, of, of what you go through to do that, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, a hun- 100%. They’re, they’re completely different, uh, completely different things, and it’s, it’s one of the things we find where we’re like, "Hello, we’re gonna go and buy a [00:13:00] house in this area." And they’re like, "Oh, my auntie used to live there. My parents grew up there. They’d never touch that, that part of town."

And it’s like, yeah, but that was, that was 20 years ago. Uh, there’s a, there’s a suburb probably five or six kilometers from here that back in the mid-’70s you wouldn’t have gone near, and today it’s one of the most expensive suburbs near us. Um, and so I think that’s the thing with, like, gentrification, with things changing, and, and looking at, at where you get your, your information from, um, and who you’re listening to.

‘Cause I think that’s sort of the, the thing of, like, we have a legal problem, we generally tend to go to a lawyer. We have a, a tax problem, we generally tend to go to an accountant. Uh, but, uh, it seems to be property is like, "Well, I’ll just go and talk to my work mate ’cause they bought a house six months ago and, and they’ll know what to do."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, and that’s a really good point. I mean, when, when it comes down to it, there, it’s gonna be a number of different people that you’re gonna talk to for different advice in different areas of your business, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, 100%.

Tim Melanson: And like, so for you, when you, when [00:14:00] you look for people to help you, are, are you more or less looking for a specific skill that you wanna learn?

Or do you sort of look for maybe even like accountability partners or anything like that? Like how, how do you hire coaches or, or mentors?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, on the, the coaching side is like where, where do they sit? Where have they been? And have they, they done the thing that, that I wanna do? Um, and I also find it really important that, that they are future thinking. Um, like I’ve, I’ve had some, some guys, some people recently that were like, "Hey, look, here’s my, here’s my coaching thing.

Here’s what I do." And you ask them questions, they’re like, "What, what are you doing with AI? What do you know about that? How integrated is that in your, your coaching system?" "Oh, we don’t know much about that." And it’s like right, okay. You’re probably, you’re probably not the, the person for me for, for where we’re at.

And I think it’s important that, uh, you know, when you get a coach, then they’re probably not gonna be with you forever. They’re, they’re gonna get you through a stage gate, and then you’re gonna need to go and find someone that’s gonna get you to the next level. [00:15:00] Uh, and I think that’s the, that’s the important thing too is like there’s, you know, people feel loyalty to a particular person, but it’s not always the, the place that’s gonna get you to where you need to go

Tim Melanson: I think that’s a really good point, and you do see that quite a bit, and it is very difficult to let go of a coach. You know what I mean? Like, you know, especially if they’ve gotten you to, you know, a certain stage in the game. So, like, h- how do you… Do you normally, when you initially talk to somebody, you know, do you sort of set those expectations up front?

Like, "I need you to do this for me, and then we’re gonna be done," or does

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, no, I, I never go into these things with pre-set expectations of what’s gonna happen. Um, it, it’s sort of like you, you never know how you’re gonna work with them until you work with them. And so it’s like, right, cool, this is what I wanna work on at the moment, this is what I need some help with. It’s something you can help me with.

Let’s, let’s start there and see where we go. Um, and then if, if it gets to a point where, uh, they can’t push me any further, they’re, they’re [00:16:00] running out of expertise in the area that I need, then it’s a, a case. It, it might also be the thing they surprise you, and they’ve, it’s, yeah, they’ve got an arsenal of, of tricks that, that weren’t sort of previously discussed, and things keep going for a while.

But I mean, there’s always a, a case of like you’ll, you’ll get to the end of your, uh, usefulness isn’t quite the right word, but like the end of where their expertise can push you, and you need to go off in another direction, and their expertise doesn’t, doesn’t quite align with that. And I think that’s just like natural in, in everything

Tim Melanson: It is natural in everything, and, and that’s, I think that, uh, you know, part of what we talk about in a lot of businesses is that you’ve gotta sort of niche down and figure out exactly what you do and how you help people and who you help. So, you know, as someone’s going through a journey and growing their business, if that’s their goal, I mean, maybe their goal is to kinda stick around where, w- exactly where they are.

But if they’re growing and growing and growing, well, then, uh, it, it would make perfect sense that [00:17:00] you would outgrow that specific mentor or that specific coach because they should be niched down and focusing on businesses that make, you know, between this and this amount of money. And then once you grow past that, then it would make perfect sense for you to move on, away and, and, and to somebody who focuses on that, on that level,

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah. Hun- 100%. I mean, it, it’s like I can remember, um, sort of one of my first coaches that I had was, like, okay, okay, so they were really good at getting the business established, understanding numbers, knowing what’s going on there. But as, as soon as you start talking about, "Hey, look, we wanna grow our social media, we need to start doing this," it’s like, well, uh, I’ve, I’ve seen some stuff, but I don’t know a whole lot about it.

So it’s like, right, cool, who do we need to go and find that’s gonna, that’s doing exceptionally well at that, that can then go and show us that side of things? Um, and how do we, you know, how do we find someone that’s gonna teach us how to grow our systems? And we’ve, we’ve found, uh, someone that’s helping us out with, with that and getting that sorted, and it’s like, right, our systems are up to date.

Um, social media’s [00:18:00] about where we wanna… There’s some other stuff that we need some help with now, so it’s like how do we then shift to find that person that specializes in that? Um, and I think that’s just the, the natural progression when you’re, when you’re growing. But like I say, if you’re, if you’re stagnant and you want someone just to have a chat to, then, um, obviously different, different story with that as well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it’s funny. I never really thought about the, about it this way, but technically I would imagine that a good coach would have a lot of good turnover, right? ‘Cause they should be getting people to where they wanna go, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yep. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I suppose too at the same time if, if the coach is also growing their own business, um, ’cause I, I think that’s probably one of the other things that, that happens from a, a coaching perspective is that people stop running their own business, start coaching. They get themselves to a level in, in their business where all they do is coach, and they, their, their ex- their today’s experiences come through the, the experience of others as opposed to, uh, you know, their own experience and their, [00:19:00] their own sort of skin in the game with, uh, with what they’re doing

Tim Melanson: Yeah, right on. Cool. So let’s talk, let’s talk about your business a little bit, getting into your solo. So what’s exciting in your business right now?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, I, I think the opportunity and the growth is the, you know, the exciting bit. Growing the team, uh, getting our sales up and running, uh, more than, than what they sort of have been over the last sort of 12 months. So, um, we, we’ve just brought on some new people that, you know, are really helping on the, the operations side of things, so I’m not trying to wear six or seven hats is, is really the, the key and exciting thing there.

And, and just building that team out, um, is where we’re sort of focusing most of our, our energy at the moment.

Tim Melanson: Oh, right on. And so if somebody wanted to work with you, like tell me a little bit more about how that process works

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah. So in, in terms of working with us, um, we’ve got a few options, is basically we can sit down and strategically have a conversation around, uh, where you are at the moment, where you wanna go, uh, right through to, "Hey, look, I need you to go and purchase me [00:20:00] something, uh, manage the renovation for it, plus property manage the, the property."

So we do sort of everything in between those two, um, those two guardrails. And it’s, it’s really about sitting down, having a conversation, figuring out where people are at now, where they’re heading to, and, you know, what, where that gap is and, and if we can fill that gap for them and, and help them out. Um, and so as, as per everything, just starts with a conversation and, uh, and take things from there

Tim Melanson: And what, what are your typical client, like what, what would be the typical person that would be getting the most out of working with you?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, generally tend to be time poor people that, um, professional people, uh, full-time job, family, uh, haven’t got the time, inclination to go out and, and look for property. Uh, they, they value other people’s time in terms of they understand that what they do and what they specialize is, is, is their thing. Um, and that they, they value other people’s advice.

There’s probably the, the people that we [00:21:00] don’t particularly work with well are the, the extreme DIYers that are, are like, "Right, cool, I’m just here to suck some information out of you, but I, I can do this myself." Um, it makes, yeah, it makes life pretty, uh, pretty tough. So, um, yeah, those, those people that know what they want as opposed to the, either the DIYers or the, the vague, ambiguous people

Tim Melanson: Okay. And so w- what would be what… So, so they would just have the, the capital, they wanna get into it, but they need somebody who’s gonna kinda like run it for them

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, 100%. So got the capital, got their financing lined up or cash or however they’re gonna purchase whatever they’re looking to, to do, um, but they just don’t wanna go down the, the line of actually having to do it themselves. Um, or they, they don’t fully understand the process. Um, and they just wanna also make sure that, that what they’re doing is gonna be the thing that gets them ahead, um, as opposed to the thing that, that keeps them stationary

Tim Melanson: Right on. Okay, so how do they find out more then?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, best place is on Instagram, uh, at hadleyNightingale. And we’ve got [00:22:00] obviously a heap of information there, and, um, yeah, you shoot me a DM through there, and, uh, we can have a conversation and, and see where things go.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Right on. So let’s talk a little bit about music before we go. So tell me, who is your favorite rock star or band?

Hadley Nightingal: Favorite band Do like a bit of Luke Combs. At the, him and Jordan Davis at the moment are the, uh, the, the two that I’ve been listening, uh, listening to a lot of, uh, lately

Tim Melanson: Right on. Have you seen him in concert?

Hadley Nightingal: Uh, yeah, actually that was how I found, uh, sort of found Jordan Davis was, uh, him, Luke Combs, and I forget the, the opening act’s name, uh, were in New Zealand a couple years ago. Um, and so yeah, hadn’t heard of Jordan Davis before, but were there for Luke Combs, and he was like the, the opener for, for him. Um, and yeah, that was the, uh, the sort of doorway into, into that

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. And do you play music at all?

Hadley Nightingal: I used to. Used to play the, uh, the saxophone [00:23:00] back in, uh, back when I was in, in high school. Um, but I just haven’t had the, uh, yeah, the, the time of, of late to, uh, to get back into it.

Tim Melanson: Oh, yeah. One of these days, right?

Hadley Nightingal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s still s- as it still sits in the corner gathering some more dust

Tim Melanson: Right on. Well, thank you so much, Hadley, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Hadley Nightingal: Awesome. Thanks so much, Tim. Really appreciate it

Tim Melanson: Cool, and to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Today we are talking to the CEO of Fanbridge Consulting, and what he does is he helps people to understand the, the non-food franchising and to un- identify the top available opportunities on the market. So I’m super excited to be rocking out today with Jon Austinson.

Hey, Jon. You ready to rock?

Jon Ostenson: Hey, Tim, ready to rock. Excited to be here

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, we always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, you know, I’ve been fortunate to be able to build a business that allows me to do what I enjoy doing day in, day out, helping people, working from home, and, uh, yet, you know, been on the Inc. 5000 the last couple years. I’ve been able to build a sizable practice, and I do that by helping others. And so, uh, yeah, it’s incredibly fulfilling.

Um, I spent many years in the corporate world and always had that desire to be a business owner, didn’t know where to start, didn’t have franchising on my radar, and it was about 10 years ago that, uh, franchising landed on my radar. So look forward to unpacking that. Um, but yeah, I pinch myself every day.

Could never work for anybody again, and, uh, just feel very blessed to, to be able to serve others[00:01:00]

Tim Melanson: Yeah, you can’t go back, eh? It’s, it’s a tough thing

Jon Ostenson: Can’t come back. Unemployable, as they like to say within entrepreneurship circles. And what’s amazing is most of the folks I hang out with these days are business owners, right? It’s just a different conversation. It’s a different way of thinking and, uh, yeah, a different sense of freedom as well. And, and nothing’s easy.

If business ownership was easy, everyone would be doing it. So I never wanna sugarcoat it, but it does provide that path to the life that you’re looking to, um, that most people are looking to lead

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I mean, there’s just more, I think there is more opportunities. It’s more under- well understood now too. Like, so I, I’ve just seen a massive difference in the last, you know, 15, 20 years that there’s just more and more people that are just choosing to do it themselves, right? Instead of just taking the job.

And then at the, at the same time, the job market is getting wonky. Is that a good word for it? Right?

Jon Ostenson: Well, all I know is I read the Wall Street Journal every day, and I see headlines around AI and workforce reductions or impacts and changes, and [00:02:00] I have so many people reaching out saying, "Hey, either my job’s gonna be impacted, or I’m afraid it’s gonna be impacted, or I’m being asked to do more with less, or I’m being asked to learn all these new technologies."

And they’re saying, "I want understandable cash flowing businesses, things that aren’t going out of style, that are not gonna be disrupted by AI." Um, those are con- the conversations we’re having frequently

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I think the days of just, um, uh, relying on, you know, one employer for the rest of your life, I mean, those have been gone for years now, right? But I mean, I think it takes time for the mindset to just change about that and, and recognize that, you know, the, the safe job is, is, is a thing of the past now, and it’s a little bit…

You know, for people like me and probably you, it’s empowering. I, I, I think having, like, control is, is what I wanted in the first place. It’s why I’m, I’m self-employed in the first place, is to have that control. But, um, but it is scary, like, as you said, and there are a lot of pitfalls that you could fall into, and we do like to talk about some of the mistakes, so I’m wondering, can [00:03:00] you share with me a bad note?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. Well, I once had a company that did not succeed. Um, when I left the corporate world, you know, I, I did start a company. It was a marketing agency and a call center all under one roof, and we served franchises and franchisees. And, and candidly, we became too customized and ended up not having the best processes, and we were kind of learning on the fly as we went.

Had a lot of fun during the process. We built it up. We were about thirty-five employees. Uh, I had a partner on the business with me and, um, you know, was very proud of it. But end of the day, it wasn’t profitable. We were barely break even, and we were putting a ton of effort into it. So I saw the writing on the wall.

I kicked the can down the road for a little while, but eventually I had to pull the trigger on, uh, on the business. And, uh, you know, that was a humbling experience, right? You know, didn’t have a big, sexy exit. Instead, it was really stepping back and, you know, finding homes for our employees, finding homes for our clients.

Very proud of how we handled it, but it was a difficult situation. It was a tough season to be in. But that experience gave me all the more appreciation for the franchise model because here I’m trying to build something on the fly, whereas [00:04:00] with the franchises, you’ve got a proven operating system. You know, it’s been proven out in other markets.

You’ve got a sea of other franchise owners living the same thing day in, day in, day out. There’s just so many benefits to being in business for yourself but not by yourself, and it de-risked the situation a lot. So, um, it was a negative at the moment, but it led to a much more positive, uh, kind of long-term tr-trajectory

Tim Melanson: Wow. So to customize, I’d like to dig into that a little bit ’cause, uh, I’ve definitely, I think I know what you mean by that, right? Well, but what do you mean by that?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, to build a business, you’ve got to have margin, right? And oftentimes you can get that through streamlining and efficiencies, right? Uh, you’ve got to have… But what, where we became too custom was we were doing something a little different for each of our clients, even within a franchise system where we should have been treating them all fairly equal.

Um, you know, answering their phone calls, how we answer those calls, how we customize the marketing in their area. Whereas if we’d kind of stuck to the script, we would have been a lot more efficient. Our clients probably would have been better because they’re not the subject matter experts on all this feedback they were giving us.

[00:05:00] Um, a- and so yeah, big lesson learned that, you know, e- e- either you’ve got to be willing to charge for becoming very custom can’t have a low price and be custom, um, or spread yourself too thin and not have the resources to fulfill the business

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think that can apply to so many businesses, especially service businesses. And it’s tough because, you know, in the very beginning when you’re, you know, looking for those initial clients, you, you sort of take anything you can get, right? Um, but I think what probably we should be doing in those circumstances is learning which clients we’re best at serving, and then try to figure out how to, like, package up that product or that service into something that is really, um, predictable, right?

Jon Ostenson: 100%. No, even if you have like a service-based business, let’s say it’s truck-based, you know, you wanna keep those routes tight. Well, or else there’s gonna be inefficiencies. Uh, well, therefore, you wanna market in a couple of zip codes instead of spreading [00:06:00] yourself too thin at the beginning, right? And so, uh, a lot of lessons learned, but those are lessons I’m able to pass on to our clients today

Tim Melanson: Well, and speaking of which, so how did you learn all this stuff? Like, do you hire coaches? Like, how, how did you get into those, or did you already know, right? H- how did you get there?

Jon Ostenson: Well, again, I spent many years in the corporate world, so there are definitely skill sets that I brought over. However, I, I never learned how to be an entrepreneur until I was an entrepreneur. And, uh, some of the resources that really helped me, I have had several business coaches over the years, Jack Daly being one.

He’s a pretty well-known guy out there. Paid a lot for him, but it was worth it. Um, you know, so I learned from experts, but also learned from peers, and I’d say that was a huge im- part of my growth in learning how to be an entrepreneur. Uh, one organization as an example, EO, the Entrepreneurs’ Organization.

It’s a big global organization. Here in Atlanta where I am, we have about 175 members. You have to do at least a million a year in revenue, and then they’ve got kind of a JV program, 250,000, I think is the threshold there. But, you know, we were in forums where every month I’d meet with [00:07:00] seven others, and we would go deep in our businesses and kind of serve as a board of directors.

I learned so much from these other folks that were in different industries, different backgrounds. Um, and part of it was entrepreneurship 101. So that really helped me on my journey to not have to make every mistake myself, though I did make plenty of mistakes. Um, you know, and I tell my kids this all the time, "It’s okay to make mistakes.

Let’s just try not to make the same obvious mistake twice."

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Yeah. Well, I think the, the, I mean, the, the analogy or the joke that I say all the time is that when we start our business, oftentimes we start because we’re, you know, we’re good at this thing, right? But then we find out really quickly that probably 80% of running the business has nothing to do with that thing, right?

It’s all the other stuff. And so I, I like what you’re saying because, you know, if you go and you meet other entrepreneurs, even if they’re in a totally different industry, there is a lot of overlap, maybe even 80% overlap of things that they’re dealing with as well. It’s just that specific service or a product that they offer that’s different.

But other than that, the, the principles of running a [00:08:00] business tend to be very similar, right?

Jon Ostenson: They are. And I think you have to be wise in saying, what do you wanna take from others and what do you want to leave behind? You know, where I live, most of the people I sur- surround myself with are business owners that are building very large businesses that are gonna have big exits on one day, and that’s kinda what you’re taught, right?

You add head count, scale up, you know, make it as big as you can. For me, with my consulting practice, I have purs- purposefully chosen to keep it at a certain size because I don’t wanna add the head count. I’ve been there. I’ve had a 35-person company before. And right now, I challenge myself to find efficiencies, find better ways of doing things so I can serve more clients without having, adding head, head count on my end, because my desire is to be customer/client-focused.

You know, I wanna be strategic. I don’t wanna manage a large team. So it’s neat when you reach that point in your career when you say, "Hey, here’s what I’m good at. Here’s what I enjoy doing. Here’s what, what I want my every day to look like."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I think that that’s a probably like a, a cultural or maybe like [00:09:00] a, you know, programming that your business always has to grow. It has to keep growing. Every year it has to keep going, right? And that’s not necessarily true. You can kind of keep it at a size for a long time and still be happy, right?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. For me, the business cash flows well. I’ve got the consulting business, then I’ve got an investment business, and on the investment side, that’s where I get a… You know, as I’m able to fuel the cash flow into the investments, you know, whether it be real estate, whether it be franchises that I invest in, um, whether it be private credit, private equity, a lot of different asset classes that I invest in, that creates the passive cash flow, right?

So that, that’s expanding. So that’s where I’m getting the growth rather than headcount directly to the bottom line in my consulting practice

Tim Melanson: I have the same strategy. And i- it’s, it’s taken so long to get to that point , right? Where, where, uh, you know, and, and, uh, I think that, um, you know, the, the, the really wealthy employees even, that- they’re- that’s how they do it, right? They use their main income, even though their main income might not be expanding and tripling every year, it’s staying [00:10:00] pretty stable, but they’re taking that and using that money, you know, instead of spending it on, you know anything.

They’ll use that money wisely and, and, uh, a business owner can do the same thing, only the difference is that there’s a lot more flexibility in running a business, but also a lot more risks, too, right?

Jon Ostenson: There is, though I, I would argue that working for someone else is risky, kind of like we talked about in the

Tim Melanson: It is

Jon Ostenson: here. I- it is. And so, now, we have a lot of people reach out to us, probably half of our clients get into businesses where they still have a W-2 or they’re a current business owner of another company and they’re saying, "I wanna diversify.

I want to expand. I want the tax benefits that come through business ownership," right? The government incentivizes people to be business owners. It just opens up the tax playbook. And they want their efforts to not only go towards cash flow, but they wanna build an asset that they can sell one day. So I, I give a talk oftentimes called Franchising as an Asset Class, and so we, as we think about the different things you can invest in, business ownership is one of those, and I believe that franchising makes it much more doable and de-risk the situation in a lot of [00:11:00] cases for people

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So now let’s get into a little bit of the practice side of it, ’cause, uh, I mean, that can mean a lot of different things, right? Um, you know, there’s business practices. There’s also personal practices I imagine too. Like, do you have any of those?

Jon Ostenson: Any personal practices, I’m sorry

Tim Melanson: Things that you do every day, routines, things that make your life s- consistent, we’ll say

Jon Ostenson: Absolutely. No, I, I view everything through five domains, five lenses, if you will. And this is my annual goal setting, my quarterly goal setting, even how I evaluate my day. I call it the five F framework. For me, it’s, it’s faith, family, and friendships, um, fitness, finances, and then, uh, uh, franchising. So for some people that’d be business, for me it’s franchising.

So those five Fs, I mean, that’s how I think about my day. Was I balanced today? Did I move the ball forward? What categories do I need to get more focus on that I didn’t move the ball forward in today? Um, so that’s the framework that I operate through. And as I go about my day, [00:12:00] you know, trying to hit those, you know, working out with a trainer.

I was with a trainer this morning and, um, you know, we’ll do some recovery later today. Fitness is incredibly important to me. You know, starting my day on the faith side. Um, you know, making sure I carve out good family time. You know, and then I’m in a place now where the franchising, it’s not a 40-hour workweek, right?

It, it is less and, um, you know, but there are times that I push really hard. There are times I’m in the office at 6:00 AM. There are other days that, you know, I take the day off. My family and I go on multiple international trips every year. There are things that you can do as a business owner, um, that you might not be able to do as a W2.

I don’t have to ask anyone for permission to do that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. Man, that’s a lot of, uh, positive Fs

Jon Ostenson: That’s right. And, and I oftentimes joke that w- when I say the F word franchise, people think of fast food like Subway, McDonald’s, but, uh, you know, there’s so many categories

Tim Melanson: Yeah, there’s a lot of different types of franchises. It’s not just the fast food ones, and I think that, um, I think that that might be what people think of when they think of a [00:13:00] franchise. They only think of franchi- of, uh, fast food franchises, but there’s a lot, right?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, and we’re seeing… We’ve got nothing against the food guys. We need them, but there’s a reason why I wrote the book Non-Food Franchising, which I’m happy to share with all of your listeners. There’s so many industries that you don’t have on your bingo card when you hear the word franchise. You know, things like home and property services, you know, health and wellness, categories like seniors, which is a huge one today, or, or kids, pets, different B2B type services.

And we can te- definitely take it down a level. I’m happy to give examples behind each of these. Um, but 90% of those that we work with, Tim, when they come to us and say, "Hey, we wanna be a business owner, or we don’t know where to start. We understand franchising a little bit, but we don’t know what industry to go into," I expose them to the top dozen or so opportunities in their market, hitting on different categories.

90% of the time, they end up in an industry that was never even on their radar, so it’s so much fun to expose them to what’s out there

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, uh, I, I think that one of the other things that you get from these [00:14:00] franchise models is just the mentorship and, and, and the, the systems that have been worked before. So it might even be a really good way to, like, bridge the gap between being an employee and being an entrepreneur. Maybe it’s like a stepping stone to doing something that maybe you’ve always wanted to do, right?

Jon Ostenson: I think that’s very well said. I oftentimes joke that training wheels are, you know, resemble franchises, um, in that you’re in business for yourself but not by yourself, to be cliche. You do have that franchisor and their team supporting you or that operator that you put in place. That’s why that semi-passive, I like to call it semi-involved model, is doable.

You have to have a good operator, but they can be supported by the franchisor. So now you’ve got that side, but you also, oftentimes this gets overlooked, you’ve got all these other franchise owners all across North America that are living the same thing day in, day out as you. You’re learning from each other, exchanging best practices.

Um, and so you have this community or mastermind, if you will, um, th- that’s incredibly valuable

Tim Melanson: Okay. What about the, uh, the cash flow of the [00:15:00] business? How do we… ‘Cause I, I, I understand that, you know, some of these franchises may cost a fair bit of money as well. How do you make sure that you’re gonna make your money back?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, absolutely. So every franchise you go into, uh, they’ve got what’s called an FDD, a franchise disclosure document. That’s got the historical financial results. So nothing’s ever a given, right? But at least you have some really good actual data that you’re able to utilize when you build out your pro forma and think about the business.

Uh, your item seven’s where it shows your all-in investment range. Your item nineteen is your, you know, potential, uh, revenue and profit based on others. You also get to talk to other franchisees before you ever buy, so you can hear about their experience and their numbers. Um, so no, you know, you want to plan wisely.

You know, if you’re going to use a loan like an SBA loan, it’s very common to use to purchase the franchise. You know, you need to factor in that debt service into your expense categories. You know, there are franchises where you can be profitable day one, literally, because you have low overhead and the marketing’s been turned on.

There are others, you know, that may take a little bit longer. I’d say on average, you’re probably looking at around six months, six to nine months. I always [00:16:00] encourage clients to, "Hey, let’s be a little more conservative. Let’s assume it takes a full year," right? But what does that run rate look like as you build up to that year?

Um, a-and so, you know, we encourage clients to go in conservatively, have that extra cash or that line of credit that you can tap into. Um, you know, partnerships are incredibly common as well, where maybe someone’s a capital partner, someone’s an operating partner. Um, but a lot of different ways to fund it.

Another way is a retirement rollover. It’s what’s called the ROBS program. A lot of people aren’t aware of that, but that’s a common way to fund a purchase

Tim Melanson: Wow. Now, I, I mean, I, I have, I have a lot of people on the podcast that have different, uh, you know, aspects of the bad note of things that don’t go as planned. But there tends to be some common mistakes that people will make, and, um, a- I’m thinking in the franchise model or versus, like, a, a regular traditional business.

Like, if someone’s thinking about starting a business, a lot of times we’re thinking about it from the perspective of we wanna do it our own way. You know, we wanna, we wanna have our own, our own thing, right? And we don’t wanna [00:17:00] be following r- uh, rules anymore from some employer. But the franchise model, on the other hand, you do have to follow these rules in order to be successful.

Now, do you find that there’s a lot of, like, resistance to following the, the, the, you know, the proven rules that are obviously working for other people?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, it’s a good point. Not everyone’s meant to be a franchisee, right? There are some people that are too entrepreneurial, I might say. You know, they wanna put their thumbprints all over everything, right? And, and they would not be good franchise owners. I do believe it’s a better model of business ownership for most people out there, again, because you have that training wheels, you’ve got the system, you’ve got the product market fit that’s been established.

I can go on and on. You know, technology stack day one, the marketing optimized data day one. Uh, I’ll stop there. But no, what I found is there are individuals that… It, it usually gets… comes out during the discovery process, and I have to tell them, "Hey, I don’t think fra-" or they come to the conclusion on their own franchising may not be right for them.

Tim Melanson: Right

Jon Ostenson: What’s interesting, Tim, a lot of existing bu- business owners come to us and wanna buy a franchise. [00:18:00] Some of them, it’s not a good fit. A lot of them, it’s a really good fit because they say, "I appreciate all the hard work that’s gone in because I’ve been there myself before. I’d rather not recreate the wheel.

I’m ready to just go execute. I’ve got this young employee I wanna put in place, let him go run with it and make us proud." Um, you know, a couple of years back, I had… It was a gutter franchise, about a six billion dollar industry, gutter installation. Placed nine clients with that franchise system. It was, uh, great financials, great model.

One of them went out of business, whereas others were thriving. Some even did a million dollars in their very first year in revenue. One of them went out of business. I called the franchisor. I said, "What happened here?" He said, "John, he wasn’t willing to follow the system. We did everything we could. We coached him.

We flew into his territory. Um, end of the day, he thought he was the smartest guy in the room and just wasn’t willing to follow the system." And so, you know, I think back, I was president of a large national franchise system or international with candles, uh, in the US, Shelf Genie. In that franchise system, our top performers were the [00:19:00] ones that were halfway decent with people, they worked hard, and they were willing to follow the system.

So it does take some humility, um, but that was a great question.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, and I, I think that, you know, it is possible that someone could have a better idea, right? I mean, that does exist. Someone created it in the first place. But on the other

Jon Ostenson: totally. Yeah. No, and innovation bubbles up from the franchisees usually

Tim Melanson: Right. Uh, well, and there you go. I was just gonna say that, ’cause I imagine there’s probably a path where you can sort of, like, maybe share that idea and maybe get some improvements in the fin- in, in the way that the franchise r- runs, right?

Jon Ostenson: Oh, 100%. Franchisees are always gonna share their opinions and, uh, you know, but oftentimes that’s where the best ideas come from, ’cause they’re living it day in, day out on the front lines. Um, yeah, I, I mean, I could rattle off examples that they come to mind, but yeah, a good franchisor is going to take that feedback.

They’re going to want to innovate. If it works for this franchisee, hey, let’s roll it out to the whole system and, and institutionalize it. So, um, no, that is a benefit that you have of being a part of a franchise system is that other people are [00:20:00] trying different things. You know, they’re not taking the brand off the rails, you can’t do that, but they can try different things in their hiring or their marketing or what have you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, and, and I, I, I do think that that’s probably true a lot that when you build the business and you realize what’s involved in it, then you realize, "Okay, th- this is the reason why they do things this certain way." And I think, uh, that oftentimes what you might encounter is, you know, especially when if you’ve been working a job for a long time, you’re just like, "Oh, I just hate the way that they have to do that," right?

And you just wanna do it a different way. But oftentimes there’s a reason why they do it in the first place, right? And sometimes there’s not. Sometimes it is just extra work for no reason. But it’s probably pretty rare, ’cause even in these large, large companies that you’re an employee of, I mean, they’ve got these systems in place for a reason, right?

It’s, it’s usually not random, right?

Jon Ostenson: Uh, when you talk about big companies, I mean, s- uh, sometimes there’s a rhyme or reason, sometimes there’s not, right? So I’m having ghosts from my past all of a sudden [00:21:00] flood my mind with, uh, why did we do this back in the day? But, um, no, I, I’d say within franchising, there’s a healthy checks and balance, right?

I- if the franchisor is saying, "Hey, we wanna do things this way," and fran- multiple franchisees are saying, "No, you’re better off another way," they’re gonna speak their minds

Tim Melanson: Well, and, uh, you know what? Uh, you know, on that topic, and I’m just thinking that it might be possible that the company is so big and there’s so many people that, you know, based on the system that you’re talking about, you’re trying to kind of systemize everything, put everything in the same little box.

Well, now you’ve got too many different people fitting in a little box, right? So it may not be the right thing to do, but it is if the company is that big, which is probably a, a, you know, a good selling point for, you know, maybe keeping a business a, a little bit smaller. Because the smaller you are, the leaner you can be, the more maybe custom, I guess, you can be.

Does that make sense?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, and everyone’s got a different end goal, right? I- and their why behind why they’re doing what they’re doing. I mean, I’ve got clients… Uh, I’ve got one that does close to 50 million a year in revenue. Over time, he’s acquired other franchisees in the [00:22:00] system, built up this large empire. I’ve got others that say, "Hey, I’m happy with the lifestyle business where I can, you know, work remotely and, um, you know, work from the beach, and work the days I want to and not the other days," you know, different con- consulting type gigs, uh, within franchising.

Um, I’ve got others that say, "Hey, I wanna have a large team and nurture them and build a culture." Others say, "Hey, I’d rather be a one-man show." A- and so there’s something just about for everyone, and it’s so much fun to kind of pull the, um, pull the curtain back and expose people to the types of businesses.

And I’ll just rattle off a few, Tim, uh, just off the top of my head here. So this is what gets people leaning in. You know, so home and property services, it’s everything from, you know, restoration to dumpsters, to artificial turf, to pool cleaning, to cabinets. Um, you know, businesses in health and wellness like hormone replacement, recovery modalities.

Uh, you know, in the senior world, you know, in-home care, but also businesses that provide wheelchair ramps and stair lifts and r- retrofitting mobility solutions, allowing people to age in place. Um, you know, i- in the kids space, it’s [00:23:00] everything from youth soccer to teen driving schools to, you know, you’ve got pet grooming out there, um, pet boarding.

And then in the B2B services, it’s different types of consulting like cost reduction consulting or insurance adjusting or freight brokerage or really cool one that we’re working with right now, it’s a big fuel truck. It can carry 200 gallons of, uh, uh, fuel and go around and gas up fleets of vehicles to reduce the downtime that those companies have.

It’s… Some of the ones I’m invested in, I’ve got an asphalt paving and line striping business, so parking lots. I’ve got another one that provides temporary containment walls around renovation projects. So again, things when I say franchise that you would never think of, right?

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, yeah, there’s something for everybody, and when you start a business, if you get really good at creating those systems, you can franchise it. Is, is that, like, is that a thing too? Like, uh, you know, when you… I- if you have a successful business, can you turn that into a franchise?

Jon Ostenson: Very oftentimes. I mean, there are some that aren’t replicable for whatever reason, but many times it’s a path that I consider founders to [00:24:00] consider, right? It could be a good growth opportunity where you have vested interest. You know, people are putting their own money in the game, they’re gonna run the business like they own it, right?

You always want employees to run it like they own it. Um, so no, I’ve got some great partners that take companies through that process. I’m always happy to chat with any, any of them and give them some feedback and some thoughts on, you know, whether or not I think their business would make sense to franchise.

But no, it can definitely be a good path to scale, and private equity loves, loves, loves the franchise model. So, you know, when you think about an exit one day, um, it could be a great model

Tim Melanson: Okay. So there’s exiting from your franchise, and there’s also exiting from your regular business that you could turn into a franchise.

Jon Ostenson: Exactly. Exactly

Tim Melanson: cool. So let’s, uh, I mean, let’s get into that a little bit more. We can get right into your guest solo. So what’s exciting in your business right now?

Jon Ostenson: Gosh, there’s so many unique business models that are coming down the chute, and I mean, we’re seeing more interest than we’ve ever seen in franchising, I think for a variety of reasons. You know, I think shows like yours, you know, it’s getting people excited about the idea, and, you know, we’re helping them connect the dots.

[00:25:00] And, you know, Tim, what’s neat about our model, it’s entirely free to work with us. You know, I’m essentially a real estate broker, but for franchises, and so we simply get referral fees on the back end. None of those are passed on to our clients, and, you know, we, we’re part of the largest group out there. We work with over 600 different franchise brands, um, uh, that are looking to expand, and, um, I just love exposing people to these.

So I’m having a lot of fun, um, love educating, love taking clients through the process. I get my validation when they come back to me and they buy additional brands or additional locations, or they refer their brother to me. Um, that’s what really gets me going and, um, excited about the franchises that I own and the ones that I’m helping other clients step into

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s, that’s awesome. So now when… How does the process look like when I, I, if I wanna work with you then?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. Reach out to us. Come to franbridgeconsulting.com, F-R-A-N bridgeconsulting.com. Share your email address. Uh, you’ll immediately be able to download our book, Non-Food Franchising. Uh, but then my assistant will reach out to you once she gets your [00:26:00] email, and I give you a link to my calendar. So, you know, if you’d like to take the next step and jump on a call, you’ll be happy to, you know, talk through franchising with you and, and through…

talk about your background and what could be a fit. And then, uh, I’d come back to you and expose you to, you know, the top opportunities that I see in your market for you. And, um, you know, from there, you know, talk to the franchisors that you want to. We kind of support you throughout the journey and, um, you know, ultimately, if you move forward, you know, we’ll, we’ll celebrate with you.

But, you know, we’ve got all the funding resources. We have franchise attorneys that can review the agreements. Uh, we’ve got, um, kind of a one-stop shop for those interested in franchising

Tim Melanson: Wow. Is there a type of person or maybe a type of background that tends to get really good success in, in, in this?

Jon Ostenson: I think someone, you know, that has that humility, that’s willing to follow the system. You know, i- we love military veterans. They, uh, you know, they’ve been following systems. It’s all about executing, right? Um, you know, I, I love… I mean, so many… That’s one of the things that made me fall in love with the franchise model is just the diversity of backgrounds that can come together under a shared system of [00:27:00] support and, you know, fulfill their dreams to become business owners.

And, you know, I always say, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? I ne- I get excited about this. I never wanna sugarcoat it. It still takes work. There’s a reason why the government incentivizes you in the tax code. There’s a reason why not everyone’s doing it, but franchising makes it much more doable and, um, you know, you get to work for yourself instead of someone else.

So, um, you know, I’d say those that have a willingness to work hard, that are, um, you know, halfway decent with people and willing to follow a system, that’s all it takes. And b-

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, no matter what happens, you gotta go to work . And that’s, you know, not necessarily easy for anybody. So, you know, what, what’s the difference, right? You’re gonna struggle either way you go, so why not have a little bit more, uh, freedom in the path that you wanna take, right? And then on the other hand, I mean, as you said, you know, in the franchise model, and, you know, technically even in, in entrepreneurship in general, there’s so many [00:28:00] people out there that wanna help, right?

And so there, y- you know, if you’ve got that humility and you’ve got that ability to wanna, like, listen and follow some instruction, then you can get some really great success, you know, taking your own path, right?

Jon Ostenson: And I encourage people to think about what’s right for the next season. Whatever you do next probably won’t be the only thing you ever do. If you get into a franchise, you can still start a business, you can still buy an existing business. You– But you’re also gonna get a chance maybe to buy other franchisees over time when they look to sell within that system.

You get first look at all of those, right? So that internal M&A could be another path to scale. You can come back to me, and I’ll introduce you to other franchises, right? You can always scale up with complementary or diversifying, uh, franchises. So, uh, y- you have a lot of optionality. And what I love about franchising, it allows you to get in the game.

You know, too many people are sitting on the sidelines today talking about business ownership, and maybe they’re having calls with some existing business owners. They’re consuming a lot of content. Franchising allows you to actually get in the game, start building, get that platform that gives you the [00:29:00] optionality to expand in different directions in the future

Tim Melanson: Love that. So how do we find out more?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, come out to our website, friendbridgeconsulting.com.

Uh, you know, immediately you’ll get a copy of our book and a downloadable copy. If you’d rather buy it on Amazon, all the proceeds go to Hope International, a great nonprofit that we support. Uh, but no, when you share your email address, again, my assistant will reach out, uh, with a link to my calendar, and, uh, would love to serve any of your, uh, listeners

Tim Melanson: Awesome. John, let’s get into music a little bit. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Jon Ostenson: Uh, Bon Jovi

Tim Melanson: Ah, nice. Livin’ on a Prayer.

Jon Ostenson: Live and entrepreneur. That’s exactly right

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Have you ever seen them in concert?

Jon Ostenson: Have not seen them in concert, no. Um, you know, I, I probably attended a lot more sporting events than concerts over the years, but I do have an appreciation for music

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Right on. Well, thank you so much, John, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Jon Ostenson: Hey, appreciate you having me. Thanks, Tim

Tim Melanson: No problem. To the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. I’m very excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to a coach and fou- and founder of Inspired Stewardship, and what he does is he helps people to master their time, their talent, and their treasures so they can live out their calling.

So I’m really excited to be rocking out today with Scott Maderer. Hey, Scott, are you ready to rock?

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. Let’s go

Tim Melanson: Awesome. So we always start off here on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Scott Maderer: You know, I’ve been working from home since 2017. I’ve run my own business full time since 2017. And for me, the biggest successes that I’ve had across all of those years, and, and we can get more into the history and how I got there later, but is when I have those moments that I’m working with a client, I’m working with, uh, uh, somebody, and their life clicks in a way that makes the light [00:01:00] bulbs go on, and you can see it.

It- it’s those moments … I’ve looked at … Actually, last night, I had a, a client last night, a client couple, that they’re- they’re dealing with some money situations, you know, ch- job change recently, this, that, and the other thing. They’ve got a lot going on in their life. But what we talked about and what ended up clicking was on, you know, communication, and how do you make sure that you’re on the same page?

And, and it’s one of those things where he had done one thing and, and she was kind of mad about it, but the percep- It wasn’t really the reality. In other words, you know, the reason why he did it was a good reason, and the reason why she was worried was a good reason, but neither one of them was really hearing the other.

And so even though we’re talking about money, and it was a money-related coaching moment, it was like, "Oh, wait, we were just talking past each other," you know? And- and what actually helped is it helped the marriage, it helped the communication, it helped all of that stuff. So for me, all of my [00:02:00] good moments revolve around when I get to see things go past the tactical into the things that really change people’s lives i- in a, in a good way.

And so last night was a great example of one of those moments.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Isn’t that interesting that it, it, often the problem is not the problem, right? There’s

Scott Maderer: Almost never is the problem the problem.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, we have this sort of, like, masking ability of, like, going, "I don’t really wanna talk about the actual problem, so I’m gonna talk about this one instead," right?

Scott Maderer: Well, and it’s, it’s, it’s not even… It’s, it’s that, that’s absolutely part of it, but it’s also a lot of times we’re very unaware of our underlying choices that then reflect in results. You know? I- people talk about behavior y- and belief versus action, and, you know, which comes first, right? Belief or action?

And my answer to that question is always yes, because it’s a feedback loop. You know, what [00:03:00] happens is you begin to see the world a certain way, so therefore you act in a certain way, which then causes that to come back at you. You know? It, and it, it reinforces it. And that could be a positive experience, that could be a negative experience.

It’s not, this isn’t a value judgment. This isn’t a, that makes you a good person or a bad person or anything. It’s just literally how we see the world. It’s how our brain works. And when you realize that, you can’t ever see the label to the bottle that you’re in because you’re in the bottle, and the label’s on the outside.

You know? And, and this is where working with coaches and working with other people can be so valuable because, you know, I’m outside of the bottle. And so I’m out here going, "Well, the label says this," you know? And, and you’re in the bottle going, "I can’t read it." And it’s like, well yeah, of course not, ’cause you’re in there.

You’re, you’re inside your own limiting beliefs, your own biases, your own worldview, your own [00:04:00] history, your own whatever that’s created the situation that you’re in. It sometimes does take talking to somebody. It could be a good friend, it could be, you know, a spouse, it could be a coach, it could be a mentor or mastermind group, whatever.

Talking to those people that are kind of outside of the bottle, outside of the situation that can look at it and go, "Well, I can read it. This is what it says." You know? "It’s really obvious to me." You know, and you’re in the middle going, "It’s not obvious at all."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, and, uh, I mean, that’s why you need a wingman, right? That’s the whole

Scott Maderer: Yeah, you need somebody

Tim Melanson: So now sometimes things don’t go as planned though, right? And I know that it’s… I mean, the fear of failure is what keeps so many people from doing what it is that they really wanna be doing, right?

And so I like to talk about it on this show and get it out there and go, "Hey, listen. Look, we’ve made some mistakes, and here, we’re still here. Things are still going," right? So I’m wondering, can you share with me something, like a bad don- something that didn’t go as planned, and how you recovered from that?[00:05:00]

Scott Maderer: Uh, sure. Um, i- it’s kind of one of those I’ve got a list of those, right? Um, so I, I could go back in time to where I first started the business, but I’ll let, let me, let me give you something a little bit more recent just so it’s relevant to… ‘Cause people sometimes think, "Oh, you’ve been doing this for a long time.

You must not have any problems now." And it’s like, what are you talking about? I woke up yesterday. Of course I’ve got problems. Um, so one of our, one of the things that’s changed for my wife and I recently is we relocated. So we used to live kind of outside of San To- San Antonio, out in the middle of nowhere, and now we’ve located up to, uh, Bryan-College Station, Texas area, and we’re kind of more in a big community and, you know, kind of now more in the center of things than we used to be.

We used to be, like, two hours from the closest Walmart, Starbucks or McDonald’s, and now we’re, like, 15 minutes from four of those, you know, that kind of thing. So it’s, it’s really been a big change for us personally and, and it’s created some, you know, financial change, it’s created relational [00:06:00] change. We’ve moved to a different area of the country.

You know, we left people that we knew and friends, and we’d lived there for 26 years. So even though my business is portable and I can do it anywhere I have the internet, and I’ve done it anywhere I have the internet, it still affected my business. My, my personal life and having to uproot things and change things and repack things and rebuild networks.

So for instance, you’re working from home, finding ways to socialize and connect with people outside of my home, not just through a screen, you know, is important. Well, I left some of those connections, and so I’m having to create new ones and, and rebuild it. And so it doesn’t sound like a business problem at first.

People are like, "Well, isn’t that your personal life?" It’s like, yeah, but your personal life and your business life are intimately connected. And I would say that’s true, truer when you work from home too because, you know, literally we had to… When we were looking for a house, we had to take into consideration, well, Scott works from home.

Can he work from [00:07:00] home at this house? You know? It, it, it affects all of those decisions. And so for us it was really challenging. Um, it was really hard. Uh, it- we’ve been here a little over a year, and I would say we’re just now kind of getting things rebuilt and reconnected. So for over a year it disrupted everything I was doing, not just in my business but in my, my personal life.

And, and, and again, it’s not because it was a bad thing per se, but it was definitely a bad note in that it, it, it changed the way… You know, we had a tune that was playing all in harmony, and then it’s like, oh, you gotta change the time and the tempo and, uh, whatever, right? You know, the signature of the notes, and completely uprooted, completely changed it and now we’re kind of getting back into tune, I would say finally.

But it’s taken, it’s taken a long time, and it’s taken really deliberate action and planning by my wife and I of what are we gonna do to make [00:08:00] sure that we, you know, we make new connections? What are we gonna do to make sure that the business is still stable? What are we gonna do to make sure that we can continue to do the things that we want to do and feel called to do, but also maintain, you know, throughout, throughout all of that disruption.

Uh, you know, just as simple as scheduling client calls and things can be a challenge through that kind of, through that kind of change and uproot- uprooting.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I think that this, uh, this topic is, is pretty relevant to someone who might be even considering to just start working from home, like right now, because that whole disruption, I mean, that’s a big challenge going from working a job and being pretty much told what to do to now being on your own at home with all those distractions.

And like you just said, I mean, s- you know, taking into account, you know, if you’re relocating, where your home office is gonna be. Well, m- m- some people [00:09:00] might not have the ability to even deal with that right now. They live where they live. So, you know, if they don’t have a dedicated office or something like that, what are they gonna do, right?

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

A- and a lot of times, uh, you know, I do talk about, especially if you’re working from home, it, it, it’s creating a dedicated space. That doesn’t necessarily have to be a home office. It’s beautiful if you can get that, and, you know, I would say I’ve been blessed with that and it really helps. But you still need to create a dedicated space.

So even if it’s literally there’s a seat at your kitchen table that you never sit in except when you’re working, you know what I mean? That’s my work seat , you know? It, it can be as simple as that to create it. But what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to create triggers for your brain that when I’m in this place with this environment, I’m working, you know?

Because you get that naturally when you go to the office. You drive into the office and it’s like, "Oh, I’m at work." You [00:10:00] don’t get that naturally when you’re working from home. And so I actually think it’s a mistake to … You know, yeah, it’s beautiful, and yes, sometimes you can work from the couch or whatever and do things, you know, in other places, and that’s fine, and I do that too.

But I still have a dedicated time and place and schedule, and I show up to work, you know, and I put on … I even literally will wear a different shirt or … Now, you know, we’re on a Zoom call. You below, I’m wearing shorts and you know, and, and, and comfy shoes. But, but, you know, I’m gonna put on a nice shirt and, uh, because I’m, I’m at work, you know?

And so it’s creating those mental triggers, uh, with space or with environment or with behavior that, that lets your brain go, "Oh, yeah, I’m at work now. This is, this is work time. This is work space. I need to be focused on that." I, I found that to be really helpful for myself, and I’ve worked with several clients making that transition over the years, and it really helps them as [00:11:00] well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. And when I started work from home, I didn’t have a whole lot of examples around me , right? It’s been quite a while now. Uh, however, if I were to look back, that would, that would’ve been something that I would definitely learn from because, I mean, I think, you know, 20 years in, okay, it’s not gonna really ruin my day if I work from the couch today

But when, when you’re, when you’re transitioning from a, from a job to a, to a business work from home, I, I think the more you can create this routine and, and this, uh, this new, you know, triggers for your brain, the easier that transition’s gonna be, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. It, it makes, it makes that transition easier. And, and again, it’s not a, like I said, it’s not about being, um, rigid about it where it’s like, oh, I can never work from the couch or whatever. But when I work from the couch, it’s more like, okay, I’m… It’s kinda like, uh, w- back when I worked corporate, you know, there would be days I got to work from home, [00:12:00] and they were always a little different than the days I got to work in the office.

You know, in terms of what I, my expectations were, my output was, my, you know, what, what meetings did I or not have, and that kind of thing. I kinda do the same thing. It’s like there, there’s, there’s kinds of work I can do on the back porch in the sunlight, you know, watching the chickens kinda thing, and then there’s other kinds of work that it’s like, no, that, that needs to be at the computer focused, intense, you know, at the right spot with, with the intention and the energy that it, it deserves.

So, but you don’t learn that until you do it, uh, if that makes sense. And that’s where I think the routines and the structure can help is then you kinda start to learn, oh yeah, this is work that I can, I can do in the afternoon or in the evening or do from the couch or, or whatever. That kind of, uh, less intense work for lack of a better, better word

Tim Melanson: Yeah, you know, you know that it’s work that you’re doing just on the side, right? I mean, you’re watching [00:13:00] TV, it’s a little bit distracted, but, you know, you’ve… There’s a couple things that you can just throw, like, you know, i- into whatever it is that you’re doing.

Scott Maderer: I can plow through some emails and just figure out whether I need to follow up on them tomorrow, and maybe I’m not even following up. I’m just flagging them and saying, "Yeah, I need to follow up on that one," or something. Yeah, I can do that while other stuff is going on. It’s not that big of a deal

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Now speaking about other influences, um, I’m wondering, like for you, do you hire coaches in your business, or do you have masterminds, or like w- where is it

Scott Maderer: A- all of the above.

Tim Melanson: Oh, you do?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I, I’ve been part of several masterminds over the years for different things. Uh, a- and always got benefit from ’em. E- uh, especially as a small business owner, being able to plug into groups where there’s other small business owners, especially if they’re in the same industry, but even if they’re not.

Um, if you’re working from home, same thing. Pe- there’s at least some people there that work from home, so you’ve [00:14:00] got that… I- it’s no longer, "I’m the only one doing this. I’m the weird one." You know, it’s kind of a, "Oh yeah, there’s other people that do this too. This isn’t as weird as everyone makes it out to be."

And I, you know, after COVID, I think working from home became a little less weird, but it’s still not that common, you know? And even running your own business and being an entrepreneur, you know, i- it’s sexy, and everyone likes to talk about it, but at the same time, there’s really not that many people doing it.

And so I’m part of a group called Coach Connections. We’re all financial coaches. We all work together. Uh, through that I’ve got masterminds, I’ve got, um, uh, i- individual coaches. I’ve hired individual coaches over the years. Uh, when I got started podcasting, as an example, I hired a podcast coach ’cause I’m going, "You know, I kinda know what a podcast is and how to do it, but why should I go beat my head against the wall for a year and a half not doing it well when I can hire somebody that’s great at it who can get me up to speed in a couple of months?"

You know, that kind of thing. So I’ve hired both for [00:15:00] specific situations like that, and then I’ve plugged into, you know, just general masterminds and coaches that help with business or particular challenges that I’m having, uh, over the years as well.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. So now, I… And now, when we spoke a little bit about this before the show even started, uh, but there’s a sort of a, a weird situation where I think some people when they’re thinking about a, a coach or when they’re thinking about somebody in that position, it’s like they’ve got their stuff all together and they’re perfect at what they do, and that’s why I’m hiring them, ’cause they’re the expert.

But in reality, everybody’s just people, and everybody has their strengths and their weaknesses. And like y- I like what you’d mentioned earlier, when you hire a coach, you’re like, "Okay, well, I’m hiring them for this specific thing because that’s their gift." But you wouldn’t necessarily go get other advice that they…

Like, i- it’s impossible for them to know everything, right?

Scott Maderer: Right, no. A- and, and really when you hire a coach, the goal, in [00:16:00] my opinion at least, a- and I’ll talk a little bit about the difference between coaching and consulting. You know, coaching has kind of become sexy where everyone wants to call themselves a coach even if they’re not actually coaching.

Tim Melanson: Yeah,

Scott Maderer: ‘Cause to me coaching, pure coaching in its purest form, and, and again, don’t hear this as a value statement.

I’m not saying this is better or worse. Everything has its value. But it’s, it’s when I’m coming in from outside of the situation and my job is to probe and to challenge and to ask questions to help raise the awareness of you, okay? In, in other words, I’m not there to provide a solution. I’m there to ask the right questions.

I’m there to challenge your thinking. I’m there … Now, all the way at the other end of this kind of continuum is consulting. Also very valuable in certain situations. This is when I have a specific problem and you have a [00:17:00] specific solution, and if I implement your specific solution, it will solve my specific problem Give you an example.

H- hiring someone to help me with Facebook ads, right? If I need somebody to help me with Facebook ads, I don’t want a coach. I don’t want someone to come in and go, "Well, Tim, what do you think about Fa-…" I want someone to tell me how to run the stupid ad , you know? It’s like… A- and again, that’s not because coaching’s bad or consulting’s bad or coach- coaching’s good and consulting’s good.

You know, it’s not the good or bad. It’s w- what am I trying to solve? But when it’s talking about things like when I was talking about whether I wanted to go into business for myself, when it’s talking about my career, when it’s talking about my family, when it’s talking about decisions I make around finances or my spiritual walk or those sorts of…

Those are very personal. I really don’t want Tim coming in and saying, "Well, Scott, here’s what you should do." You know? I, I, that’s not gonna be helpful to me. It doesn’t solve my problem. I need someone that can stand [00:18:00] beside me and go, "Okay, let’s, let’s think this through. What’s going on?" Now, truth is, usually, and this is definitely true for me, when I’m working with people with time or finances, there’s a little, there’s times that I’m consulting, and then there’s times that I’m taking that hat off and I’m putting on a coach hat, you know?

‘Cause usually I gotta put the coach hat on to actually get into diagnosis and figuring out what’s going on. But then I may get to a point where it’s like, "Ah, now I understand. You know what, Tim? I’ve got a tool that you can use and a simple… You know, this will help solve that problem. Now let’s implement that tool or that habit or that behavior or that way of thinking or that whatever it is."

But I’ve gotta wear the coaching hat long enough to find the right tool. If I come in as a coach and go, "I’ve got the one system that works for everybody," run, okay? That don’t, that doesn’t work , you know? And again, that doesn’t mean the coach is bad. It just means that’s really consulting. That’s no longer coaching.

And, and it could be valuable as long as you have the right [00:19:00] problem and that’s the right solution. But if, if not, it, it’s gonna frustrate you more than it’s gonna help you. A- and unfortunately, I’ve seen a lot of coaches… I, like I said, I think since coaching’s kind of become sexy, a lot of people call themselves a coach, and what they’re really doing is consulting or advising or i- mentoring or, you know.

And again, all of these are good, all of these are valuable, but they’re different things , you know? And don’t hire an advisor if you want a coach. By the same token, don’t hire a coach if you want an advisor. You know, that, that’s two different behaviors.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s, uh, maybe just the way to, to figure this out is figure out what you want and then, and then you can decide whether it’s a, yeah, whether it’s a consultant or a coach they want. Uh, but you mentioned finances a few minutes ago, and I’d like to get into that a little bit because running a business, especially in the very beginning, and I, I mean, all businesses are different.

Some have inventory, some don’t have inventory, some are service, some… You know, but, but in the, in the end, I mean, they all have to make money, right? [00:20:00] And I find that, that, you know, making sure that the, the cash flow is positive tends to be a, a really difficult thing that we’re not necessarily taught in our, in our, you know, high school classes or whatever it happens to be.

So I’m wondering, you know, do you have any, any insight on that, on how we can make sure that, that we’re, we’re always in the, in the positive?

Scott Maderer: You know, a lot of it is setting up the, again, we’re back to habits and systems, um, you know, the habits into the systems. So what I see happen a lot that burns people is two things. One is they treat revenue the same as profit, and I’ll define that in a second. And two is when they treat business and personable, personal as kind of…

They, they don’t separate them. And, and I don’t just mean a physical separation, I mean a mental separation, you know? That, that my business is my business and my home life is my home life And I don’t treat the business like a piggy bank, uh, but I [00:21:00] also don’t treat it like it’s just part of my normal routine.

You know, it, you separate them. Um, so with profit and revenue, what I’ve seen happen a lot of times, especially when we first start out, you get that first check, you know, from somebody. They, they paid you, I don’t know, $1,000, right, for whatever you did. You know, you’re a freelancer, you’re doing X, Y, Z, I don’t care.

You get that $1,000 check and you’re like, "I made $1,000." No you didn’t, you know? Because your business has expenses, and there’s stuff that your business has to pay for before that money can come home. I mean, odds are really good there’s something, you know? If nothing else, there’s this little thing called taxes, you know?

And, and guess what? You know, if you work in the US, Uncle Sam wants their cut, you know? And you… But they’re not gonna come for it for months, so it’s real easy to be like, "Oh, I can just, I’ll deal with that later." And, or, "The, the electric bill’s not due till later. I’ll deal with that later." And so you [00:22:00] treat revenue, which is that $1,000, the same as profit, which is what’s left after expenses, right?

That’s kind of the definition of profit. And so when you do that, you’re setting yourself up for failure from the very beginning.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Scott Maderer: And usually it leads to the second problem, which is you start treating your personal, and you may even have it all in one account, and sometimes your business pays a bill that maybe was really a personal bill, or sometimes you pay a bill for the business out of your personal account, and you just start, everything starts blending together until it’s like there’s no separation mentally, emotionally, financially between the two.

And that, again, always leads you towards problems, because you need to treat the business as its own business and, you know, I put on my business hat and I’m looking at my business finances. And guess what? That, that line item there that’s money going home to me, [00:23:00] that’s, I’m paying somebody, you know? I’m paying a 1099 or I’m paying an employee or I’m paying whatever, depending on how it’s set up, but I’m paying somebody.

And yes, it happens to be you, but as the business owner, you have to look at it just like that’s an employee or just a- another expense, and it just happens to be the money going home to your, your personal account. And then when you get on the personal side, you have to be able to look at that and go, "Okay, this is the money coming in and this is what I’ve got to spend, and what am I gonna do," you know, on my personal side, and not just immediately go, "Oh, the business can pay for it."

Uh, and I’ve seen so many people do that, and it always ends up in a bad place.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I’ve, uh, so I- I’ve gotten into tax trouble actually, really serious problems. And it- it’s- it’s pretty much exactly what you just said. Like, it’s like you get this big paycheck, and you’re like, it- it feels like a paycheck like when you were working, like, for a job. Only the difference is that you probably already know that the company takes money [00:24:00] off of that for you to put into taxes.

Y- they don’t do that when you get a check from a client.

Scott Maderer: you still end up having to write a check, you know? That’s the other thing, you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So, so it’s just, it’s just one of those things. But then the other thing that I, I have found, and, you know, m- maybe you’ve had a similar experience. So I’ve been self-employed for almost the entire time. It’s only since the beginning of 2025 that I actually incorporated my business and, and actually created an actual business business, and it’s so much cleaner, so much cleaner.

This whole separation between business and, and personal. Uh, but when you’re self-employed, everything’s all intermingling all the time, and including your taxes,

Scott Maderer: deliberate to separate it. Yeah. It, it’s… So if you’re a sole proprietorship, so there’s two– there’s business organization from a tax perspective, and then there’s business organization from a business licensing or structure perspective, [00:25:00] you know? And, and what’s interesting is we use exactly the same names, but they’re not the same.

So, you know, it, which is even more confusing for those of us that are s- coming into it. If you’re not a CPA, you don’t know all of this stuff. And again, I’m back to this is one of those times where a lot of times it’s good to hire somebody or, or work with somebody that knows. Or again, like my job sometimes as a coach is to be the quarterback and go, "Okay, I can’t solve that because I’m not a tax expert, but we need a tax expert for that.

Let’s go find one. Here’s the questions we need to ask. Here’s what you need to look for," that kind of thing. Because guess what? Not every CPA knows how to deal with home- work from home and small businesses. Um, and when you talk about incorporation… Uh, so are you a subchapter S?

Tim Melanson: Uh, I’m in Canada, so so we have all

Scott Maderer: okay.

Never mind. Different name. Uh, you know, same concept, but different name, yeah. Um, but yeah, in, in the US, um, we have LLCs, we have sole proprietorships LLCs, partnership LLCs, and then we have subchapter [00:26:00] Ses, which are technically still LLCs, and then we have C corps, right? But what it boils down to, that’s all just gobbledygook and, and it doesn’t matter.

You don’t need to know what all of that stuff is. The point is there comes a time where both organizational structure-wise, you may need to look at a different structure, and tax-wise, you may need a different structure. What I will say is I have– if you don’t have a good CPA, I have seen CPAs who encourage people to do it when it actually ends up being more expensive for them to do it that way, ’cause they can easily make the mistake that, oh, it, you know, we just need to…

‘Cause it makes their job easier. You know what I mean? And, and, and it’s like, so from their point of view, it’s like, "Hey, this’ll make my job easier. Let’s do it." And yet then it costs the, the, the person. So I will say it is one of those things where you do have to really understand and ask questions and work with people that know what’s going on and are good at what they [00:27:00] do and that you can trust.

And, you know, that again gets back to that, um, one of those times where I think it’s good if you have other business owners around you and other support staff or support people who can go, "Hey, let’s…" Don’t just make that as a knee-jerk decision. Let’s just put it that way. Spend some time and some energy on it.

Tim Melanson: No, yeah, exactly. But, but I mean, the, the bottom line I think is your initial point, which is do your best, like even if it’s in different spreadsheets or email accounts to, to have your, your personal

Scott Maderer: you have to create some separation. Yeah, absolutely. Um, mentally if nothing else

Tim Melanson: Yeah, absolutely. So it doesn’t necessarily ne- mean that you have to go incorporate, ’cause as you mentioned, there, there are some nuances with that, both in Canada and in, in the States, where you really should talk to somebody about that.

I know I did, right? And, and it, it took me… I mean, w- when I was even thinking about incorporating, it was, oh, it’s gotta be at least [00:28:00] six or seven or eight years between the time when I start, first started learning about it to when I actually did it. So I, I mean, it, it, it was just my business needed to be into a certain po- portion, or, um, I mean, um, uh, to get to a certain place before I was ready to move that.

And we were not gonna get

Scott Maderer: Yeah, sometimes there’s certain income y- limits before it makes sense. There’s all sorts of particulars, so that’s why, yeah, like you, I’m like, I’m not an expert of that. I’m not an expert. I’ve worked with clients in over 20 countries. There is no way I know this in 20 countries, you know? It’s like, I can’t,

Tim Melanson: But in all 20 countries, having a good clean separation between the two is always a good

Scott Maderer: in all 20 countries, the separation is the key. Absolutely

Tim Melanson: when you get to the point where it is time to, uh, to incorporate it, if, if you ever do, I mean, you might, might not, well, then having that separation’s gonna make it so much easier too.

Like, all of a sudden, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a simple [00:29:00] transition. At this point, you’ve already got your personal on your personal and your business on your business, right?

Scott Maderer: Not to mention, it, you know, it, it, just to be 100% transparent, it helps you as the business owner 100%, but what I will also say, not to be… It, it helps everyone around you. Um, whether that’s either, you know, in an estate situation, whether that’s, uh, helping your CPA, you know, or somebody like that, whether it’s helping…

You know, what happens if you get sick? You know, and that kind of th- It’s all of those things that we don’t like to think about, but especially, again, when you work for yourself, you need to think about all of that stuff, you know? Because it could happen. Um, you know, and, and it’s, yeah, it makes everything cleaner for, for you and for everybody around you

Tim Melanson: Well, and I, I, I know it ’cause I, I thought about that at one point, like what happens… Oh, let’s just say that you, like you say, you get sick or you, you get hurt or something like that, and now all of a sudden someone [00:30:00] m- running your business for you or helping you with your business is now going to be all in, up in your personal stuff because it’s all together, right?

Now they’re seeing your credit card statement, which has literally everything that you’ve bought personally, when if you just had two different credit cards, I mean, it doesn’t have to be a, a business credit card. It can be two different personal credit cards. One’s used for business, one’s used for personal.

That would create that separation so that if someone was helping you, they wouldn’t necessarily need to see what you bought personally anymore, right? Yeah.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. It, it, it could just be as … Yeah, so there’s, there’s, it, there’s so much … And again, to your point, there’s a lot of particulars, but the concept of … It really goes back to what I was saying at the beginning about you need a separate space that, you know, when I sit down at this space, this is my business.

It, it really comes back to that mental outlook of this is my business and I’m treating it like a business, and then when I go over here, this is my personal life and I’m treating it like my [00:31:00] personal life. You know? It’s that mental separation, that financial separation, separation in time, separation in, in what you do.

And again, the beauty is you can have a lot of flexibility and it can look very different than everybody else

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: because you’re creating it and you’re designing it. And that’s … Uh, the other piece I would put is be very intentional about how you design that and create that because I’ve seen people create a business that they hate because they just weren’t intentional about it and, and didn’t set it up.

You know, like I said, from day one I set my business up with the intent of I can do this from anywhere because that was important for me. That is a value for me. I want to be able to pick my business up … Because I knew even back then I may need to move up there one day and be a little closer to my mom to help take care of her as she’s getting older.

Uh, so I want a business that I could just pick up and go up there and be close to mom if I need to, you know, that kind of thing. That, those were values of mine and my wife, so we s- [00:32:00] we designed it from the very beginning.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I, I love that. Like, that, that’s the kind of thing that I, I think is really, uh, the big advantage of running your own business, of being your own boss and, and doing this, is that you have… It’s not that you’re not… I mean, you’re probably working more, right? I mean, we joke about that all the time, about you’re probably working more than you would as a, as a, an employee.

But having that flexibility and that ability to just design what it is you want, you’re more proactive in the way that you build your life rather than reactive based on what somebody else says they need from you. Right now, it’s more or less, you know, if, if you don’t do what you want, then someone else is gonna try to get you to do what they want, right?

Because you’re not intentional about your life, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and it, it, it’s this idea of, you know, and yes, actually, when you’re a W-2 employee, you have some things that you can do to help control your life and your input [00:33:00] and all of that. But to a very large extent, I like to tell people that when you’re a W-2 employee, you’re self-employed with one client,

Tim Melanson: Yes. Yep.

Scott Maderer: the company you work for,

Tim Melanson: Which is a good way to think about it

Scott Maderer: And if you think about it that way, it really does change the way you look at it because it’s kind of like, "Oh, wait a minute," you know? Because at the end of the day, you want a promotion, there’s things you need to do. You know, you want to get a raise, there’s things you need to do. You, you need to be a self-starter at some level, even in a company situation, if you want to change the situation,

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: okay?

And where now I’m self-employed with multiple clients, and in some ways that’s safer than being self-employed with one client. In other ways, it’s more challenging, you know? So it’s not really one is easy or one is good or one is bad, but for some of us, being self-employed gives us the ability to design a life and work from home and, [00:34:00] you know, spend time with our family or not…

You know, travel when we want to or do all sorts of things that would be much more difficult to do in a W-2 kind of work for somebody else kind of employee-employer situation. That being said, again, the key in both of those is creating a life you want is the intentionality piece. Because I, I think if you’re a passive WT employee, it stinks if, if…

You know, I’m using W-2 ’cause that’s the US term, but you, you get my point. You know, if you’re, if you’re working for somebody else and you’re passive about it, that’s much worse than when you’re working for someone else and you’re actively involved in your own career and growth. And then I think the same thing’s true for us as, as work from home folks or business owners, um, ’cause yeah, so often I’ve seen folks basically create a job instead of a business.

And it’s like, well, uh, that’s easy. I mean, I can create a job for [00:35:00] myself pretty easy, uh, and if I, if, if I don’t, my wife will, right? That’s the honey-do list, you know? But it’s, it’s much more difficult to intentionally create something that actually gives you more of the things that you want in life.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. So let’s get into your guest solo a little bit. Tell me what’s exciting in your business

Scott Maderer: Oh, boy. Um, I’ve started a lot of kind of new things. So I work as a one-on-one coach with a lot of folks. Like I mentioned earlier, I worked with over 1,000 clients in 20 countries. I do work international. I, and I love that work, but I’ve started doing more speaking and more actual kind of personal appearance sort of things.

I had a book published a couple of years ago called Inspired Living. I’ve been talking on that topic, uh, as well as disc and, and time and money. Uh, those are kind of the big buckets that I tend to talk on. So I’ve been doing a lot more speaking and a lot more training and kind of [00:36:00] workshops, going in and doing, um, employee wellness, uh, where I go into a small business that maybe has five, seven, 10 employees and do work with all of the employees.

And the business owner, you know, wants that because it’s an employee benefit. Plus, honestly, if your employees are better with money, they work better, um, because, you know, they’re not worried about Visa calling them. They’re, they’re actually focused on the job. So I, I’ve been going in and doing a lot more of that.

Um, so those are all things that are kind of exciting for me right now. Obviously, I always… My, my bread and butter and the thing I love more than anything else is the one-on-one coaching, working with folks to, to… When they basically find themselves saying, "I make too much money to feel this broke," or,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: "I’ve got all this time, but I’m busy.

I’m not actually doing the things that matter to me. I’m just busy doing the stuff that I have to do," those are the language triggers that usually tell me somebody could work with me as a coach, and we can get [00:37:00] that straightened out and, and get you feeling… It’s not necessarily that you’re making more money, but you’ll feel richer.

And it’s not necessarily that you have more time, but you’ll feel like you have the time to spend on the, the things that actually matter because you’re making different decisions. That, that’s always the, the most exciting thing for me.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And isn’t that so impactful? Uh, ’cause bec- I, I think a lot of people sort of think that the answer is something else. It’s, it’s like, uh, it’s somebody else’s problem, or it’s, I, if I just get a, this different job, everything would be good. Or if I had… Right? When,

Scott Maderer: Or if I could just download the right app, it would solve all my problems.

Tim Melanson: oftentimes, yeah, it’s just an accumulation of really small little decisions that you’re making in your own life that are accumulating up to big things that now you feel stuck, right?

And, and I, I love that you’re able to kinda like dig into that a little bit, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, yeah. Either way, um, y- where you’re at today is based on thousands and thousands and [00:38:00] thousands of decisions you’ve made over however long you’re alive, you know? Um, if, if you’re 40, 40 years. You know, if you’re, if you’re 90, 90 years. Whatever it is. And that also, though, the beauty of that is that means it’s also something that can change.

At any time you can begin to make different decisions. And will it fix everything overnight? Nope. Um, I ordered a magic wand. Unfortunately, it was from Temu, and it didn’t work, you know? It, it, it’s… It, I don’t have a magic wand, neither does anyone else, so it’s not gonna fix it overnight, but that’s not the point.

It will end up in a different place if you start making those different decisions and different actions and different behaviors and different habits and different… All of those things compound, and so it either compounds positively or it compounds negatively. It, it’s, it’s really like compound interest, right?

Compound interest as payments on a credit card, you know, interest payments, works against you. Compound interest when you’ve got an investment and it’s compounding in that way, it works for you. They’re [00:39:00] both compound interest, you know? It’s just which one is for you and which one’s against you. And, and, and against there meaning, you know, it’s gonna go backwards for you.

You, you owe more money with interest, or you earn more money with interest. So it’s, it’s the same kind of thing with behavior. It’s compound behavior. Behavior that’s intentional and goes in the right direction compounds over time. Behavior that’s unintentional or goes in the wrong direction compounds over time.

That’s all, that’s all we work on. So I talk about time, talent, and treasures, but my joke is people usually come to me ’cause they have, they think they have a time problem or they have a money problem. All we ever really work on is talent. Because you don’t manage time, you don’t manage money. What you manage is yourself, and how you manage yourself shows up in your time and money, and that’s the result, not the cause.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. That’s, that’s really good. Yeah. And I mean, uh, I love that whole residual portion because I think a lot of people sort of think that, okay, today’s gonna be different, and they wake [00:40:00] up and they go, "I’m gonna make all these different decisions." And then things keep happening, but the things that are happening are not the result of today you making the change.

They’re a result of what you did yesterday, and it’s gonna sa- take some time before… Today’s change is only gonna have an impact in a few days now, only if you keep doing it, right? And, uh, people get discouraged ’cause they’re like, "Oh, this just doesn’t work. You know? Might as well not even

Scott Maderer: it’s, you know, health, the health realm is always an easy one for people to understand, you know? It’s like, it’s like dieting, right? You know, if you, if you want a beach body in June, you don’t change the way you’re eating on June 1st, you know? It, it’s not gonna work, um, because you’ve gotta… It, it’s gotta compound over time.

You’ve gotta change things about your exercise or your, your eat, your nutrition, or both, um, you know, those sorts of things to change what it looks like in June, and you, you don’t start in June. You start way before. [00:41:00] The same thing happens in our, our business life, our, our relationships, our, our spiritual walk.

I don’t care what part of your life you want to put it in, your career. Whatever it is, it’s the same formula. It, it’s just, it’s just kind of a different lens through which to look at it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So how do we find out more about you then?

Scott Maderer: So I actually put together a page, uh, just for your podcast listeners. If you go over to my website, which is inspiredstewardship.com, and then just put in /workfromhomerockstar. No spaces or anything, just make it all one word. I know that’ll look weird, but it’s easier, uh, on the internet machine. So if you go to, uh, inspiredstewardship.com/workfromhomerockstar, what you’ll find there is I put together some free resources and free exercises around time and money.

So if that’s just an area you’ve been struggling with and you wanna check something out, uh, it, it is geared kind of towards both personal and business. And then as well, there’s information about my book I mentioned, [00:42:00] Inspired Living, and I have a podcast myself called Inspired Stewardship that’s linked on there as well.

And if you’d like to jump on a quick call, that link is there as well. So all of the resources in one place, so it’d be easy to find at inspiredstewardship.com/workfromhomerockstar

Tim Melanson: All right, love it. That’s awesome. Thank you so much. Okay, one more question. This one might be the hardest one though. So we’re gonna talk about music. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Scott Maderer: Favorite band is probably Queen. Um, uh, that’s, uh, that, that’s definitely one that I could listen to. Aerosmith’s probably a close second, um, in part because my wife and I, that was like, I took her to an Aerosmith concert in, uh, Austin as our, it, it was our very first date. It, it technically wasn’t even a date, right?

You know, we were just going as friends, one of those things. Um, and obviously it, apparently it worked out. By the way, she had no idea who Aerosmith was I [00:43:00] think at the time, uh, ’cause she grew up on a different kind of music. So it was interesting. But, uh, yeah, so Queen and, and Aerosmith are probably my first and my second

Tim Melanson: Oh, bring a girl to a concert. You know, classic, classic. Always works, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, well, we kept moving up the hill ’cause, uh, let- let’s just say there was a, it was an outdoor venue and th- there were rather large clouds of smoke, let’s just put it that way. So we just kept moving up the hill. Uh, and then when it was time to leave at the night, you know, we, we basically were like, "We’re just gonna hang out on the truck for a while and, uh, let everybody else leave ’cause I, I have a feeling there might be some traffic accidents."

So,

Tim Melanson: it’s funny. It-

Scott Maderer: but it was … So we ended up spending a, a good amount of time together, so it was, it was, it was pleasant all around

Tim Melanson: I love that. Right on. Well, thank you so much, Scott, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. Thank you for having me

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information. We’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast Navigating Success: Mastering Time, Talent, and Treasures

[00:00:00]

Tim Melanson: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Excited for today’s episode. We are talking to the CEO of Franchise With Max, and he helps people to find a franchise. I mean, this is really cool. You actually help people start a business. So that’s, uh, one of the main goals of this, uh, podcast, and also many of the franchises I imagine are work from home.

So that’s, uh, a double hit on this one. So excited to be talking with Max Emma. Hey, Max, you ready to rock?

Max Emma: Yes. Hi, Tim. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it

Tim Melanson: Oh, awesome. Yes, gonna be a good time. So we always start off here on a good note. Tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Max Emma: Well, story of success, I guess me coming at the age of 18 from the former Soviet Union without a word of English. Uh, learning English, uh, by just practicing here and there any moment, every opportunity I would get, and then getting my degree, working for corporate America for four [00:01:00] years just to realize that corporate life is not for me.

My joke is that I’ve constantly been kissing the wrong butt. So I gave it up and started my own business. I went from three employees to 96, lost everything in bankruptcy when the recession of ’08, ’09 hit. Um, started the business again, it was more successful, sold it, and while doing it, created a bookkeeping company because of need.

My background is in finance. Uh, my co-founder background is in accounting. So we did, uh, started the business and then took it nationwide and eventually franchised the concept. So, um, I couldn’t see that happening. We, again, did it because we couldn’t find the right bookkeeper, but then we made it the only bookkeeping franchise in the United States.

So I guess that’s a success. It’s still work in progress. I mean, we’re still getting there, but just a few months ago we made it to Entrepreneur 500 list, which is like a Fortune 500 for, uh, franchises in the US, which is awesome. I don’t take it lightly. [00:02:00] So for me, it is a success

Tim Melanson: Wow, that is a success. And I mean, hey, we always talk about the bad note too, which is the failure, but it sounds to me like you got a couple in that story,

Max Emma: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Look, by bankruptcy, I mean, now I’m looking back, it was the best MBA I could have gotten, but at the time it wasn’t fun because with one baby at home and one on the way, it was pretty hard. And, you know, nobody was hiring, which I’m grateful that nobody was at this time, ’cause I probably would given up being an entrepreneur.

‘Cause I told myself, "Okay, just not for me. Didn’t happen. I’m gonna go and find a job and go back into corporate." And I was good with that, but nobody was hiring. So I’m like, "Okay, I have to feed the family," so had to open another business. Was more successful that time

Tim Melanson: Okay. Well, how did that, how’d that come about? Like, what, what, uh… I mean, first of all, I imagine there’s a lot of stigma around bankruptcy, for sure, and I’m wondering, were you afraid to do it? Like, was it a good… Like, h- how did all that work out for you?

Max Emma: I was super scared because for me, you know, coming from, [00:03:00] uh, Russia, for us bankruptcy it was, I don’t know, close to killing somebody in, in our minds. Which, you know, in the US it’s obviously a legal process that goes back to 19th century. You can do it legally. You get discharged. But in my head, this is it.

This is the end. I will never, you know, go back to normal. I mean, what did I know that Henry Ford, don’t quote me, but I think he declared bankruptcy seven times, so a lot of people went through that. Again, there is a legal mechanism in the US. And the reason I had to do it, it not because it was my choice.

I was actually fighting till the last moment but, you know, we were doing track homes. We’re doing, uh, landscaping for track homes. I had 25 trucks, cranes, all the equipment, and then they stopped building because the recession hit. So I had all the bills that I had to pay for the equipment and no income.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Max Emma: in the United States, and I’m not sure about Canada, in the United States you have to personally guarantee all the equipment. So that’s why I had to do it personally. And California is a [00:04:00] communal state, so my wife had to do it as well. So it just, you know, like a event after event after event and we had to do it.

I mean, there was nothing… I didn’t owe anybody anything personal, but I did owe… You know, the company did. So that’s why it was like a domino effect

Tim Melanson: Wow. Now you said that it ended up being a good thing, so h- how did that work out?

Max Emma: It, well, it worked out because I learned, you know, that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And, you know, that you can figure anything out. Again, I started the bu- second business. It was, you know, worked hard and, you know, again, sold it for profit, which was, which was great. But again, you only can connect the dots looking backwards.

So back then, I did that out of necessity. I had to feed the family. I didn’t know what’s going to happen. It, it was super scary, Tim. That for me it was just, you know, I thought I’m a failure and I’m never going to get out of that

Tim Melanson: And but clearly you [00:05:00] did right? And things are better because of it, right?

Max Emma: I, I did and, you know, again, as I said, it probably was my best MBA ’cause I learned to, uh, pivot right on the spot. I didn’t have an opportunity to, like, sit down and think about it for a long time and plan it. One of the things that I learned, um, again, hard way, that a good plan today is better than perfect plan tomorrow.

So if I have something like a business idea, whatever, and it’s 80% ready, I’m just running with it. I’m not gonna make it perfect because, A, you can probably live all your life and never make it perfect, and B, you can miss an opportunity because somebody else will come up with this idea. So 80% is good enough for me.

So if idea is, like, almost ready, I’m just rolling with it, and then I’m learning as I go and making it better

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well now, uh, I mean some of this, uh, some of the what happened was just circumstance, right? I mean, recession and, you know, th- things happening. Uh, but is there anything that [00:06:00] you learned that you now do differently so that it doesn’t happen again?

Max Emma: Yeah, you plan for it and you listen to smarter people around you. People were telling me, "We’re not gonna get out." I mean, they saw the trajectory of where the business was going with all the equipment and, you know, the sales going down. And I’m like, "No, no, I can make it happen." I did not give up. I was going, uh, so like actually I renegotiated the, uh, terms with pretty much every bank.

I got the best deals. They’re like, "Okay, we’ll give you five years, six years to pay us off." And I’m like, "Cool." So I had all of that renegotiated. I just could not renegotiate having zero income, which was beyond my control. So right now, um, we’re just paying more attention to the finances. And again, that’s why bookkeeping started because if we had a bookkeeping company…

And look, I was a village idiot with bachelor in finance. My wife at the time, she had master’s in accounting. She was the smart one. So we understood the accounting and finance. We were just [00:07:00] so busy growing the construction company, we did not pay attention to the finances

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And that is a lot of business owners will not necessarily pay attention to that. And I mean, I get it, right? Because you’ve got your, your thing that you’re doing. Your, your business is hard. I mean, you’ve gotta wear a lot of hats. And you’re spinning them all at the same time, right? So wh- when you’re out there trying to get new clients, ’cause ob- obviously that’s important, you may not be noticing that the numbers are pointing in a down direction, right?

But I mean, if you had somebody that was, that was keeping up on top of that, you would have those regular reports. You’d have somebody th- telling you, like, "Hey, something’s going on here. We need to, we need to pay attention," right?

Max Emma: Mm-hmm. Absolutely

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. Okay, cool. So now, uh, speaking of the people around you, I’m wondering, tell me about your band.

Like, who do you have? Or maybe I’ll ask you this question. Who was the first person that you hired on your team?

Max Emma: So [00:08:00] depends on which business you’re talking about, but if we’re talking about, um, the bookkeeping company, so I started it with my, uh, wife, who is now an ex-wife, but we still run the business together. We actually started the franchising together, and unlike many couples who are divorced that are fighting, we actually, you know, created another baby.

We already have two real human ba- babies, but this is like a business. And look, Entrepreneur Magazine just found out about us and did an interview with us about a month ago. Uh, y- because for them, it was really interesting that people who are divorced actually not only not fighting, but are starting something new and making it to the Entrepreneur 500 list.

So they approached us, and I’m like, "Okay, that’s a great PR." So, um, I don’t want to say I hired her, but when we started bookkeeping, I was literally going, uh, um, getting the clients, and she was doing the work out of our youngest son nursery. So we kicked him out to his [00:09:00] brother’s room, and that became an office

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That is quite a story though, to be working with your ex-wife, like, and, and even the fact that you brought her on after you were already divorced, right? Like, that’s, that’s

Max Emma: started a new business together. She was always part of Bookkeeping. We started it together. I mean, I was mostly running it. She had other gigs. But, uh, right now she’s, uh, back in the business, and again, she’s a professor. Um, she got her PhD. But, you know, she is an instrumental part of, like, executive coaching for all of our franchisees and all our employees

Tim Melanson: So how important is it to delegate work to other people?

Max Emma: Uh, that’s huge. Honestly, I did not see company growing. Uh, it– I thought I’m not doing something right because I was the bottleneck. I was doing most of the work, uh, myself that I could have delegated long time ago. But my logic, which was completely wrong, was, "You know what? I’m just gonna [00:10:00] do the proposals at night while I’m watching Netflix."

I mean, it’s not really work. I’m just sitting there and doing it. It’ll take me longer, but whatever, I’m watching the show. If you would have asked me what the show was about later on, I probably would not be able to do it because I was doing both at the same time, and without realizing I was working 12-hour days because I was spending my evenings doing it.

So– and that’s when I had one business. Now, with three businesses, I have executive assistant in each one of them. And, um, hiring the executive assistant was absolutely the best thing I’ve done because turned out I could delegate 80% of my time, uh, and my, my, um, you know, responsibilities, and I could start doing more of strategy, what hopefully I’m good at, and, you know, planning and do the, uh, business development and sales and building the relationship.

So I’m part of the organization called Strategic Coach that honestly changed my, uh, life, both personally and business, and [00:11:00] they just teach you that you have to spend 80 to 90% if– in your unique ability. You have to figure out what you’re good at, what you enjoy doing, and just keep doing it because that’s not real work.

If you like being around people, like if you, for example, like, uh, playing music, I mean, for you, it’s not work. For you, it’s fun, right? I mean, for me, being around people and exchanging the energy, it’s not work for me. I’m really enjoying it. But, you know, put me to do bookkeeping and I’m gonna kill somebody, and then I’m gonna kill myself, even though I run a bookkeeping company

Tim Melanson: Well, that’s funny. Well, and, and that’s just it, right? I mean, a- and, and now with your, uh, executive assistant, like, how did you find these, these people? Like, w- what was your hiring process?

Max Emma: So for executive assistant, uh, right now all of my executive assistants are outside of the US, so they’re working from home. So am I. I ma- made a point to travel to, uh, Colombia and Salvador and [00:12:00] meeting them in person because I want to develop this relationship. But again, we speak all the time on Zoom and the phone, and they work, uh, for, uh, for me.

But again, I just– few months ago I went to Salvador for sole purpose to meet my executive assistant who’s been with me for two years, and we just spent couple, couple days together, which was great. Um, so I used agencies for at least one of them. Another one I just found through a friend’s recommendation.

And look, I’m– I believe in hiring agencies, uh, uh, to help you. Yes, you pay their, the fees, but they do all the due diligence for you. They check, make sure the references are fine. Plus, look, I want my employees, all the employees that I have, and between three businesses, I have employees in nine different countries, they all have benefits.

They all have vacation. So they actually have employee, employer of record in every country. So yes, it costs the company more, but [00:13:00] I’m gladly paying that because, you know, it’s worth it. I mean, people get, you know, all the benefits. Like, to give you an idea, for example, in Colombia, same as Philippines, you have to pay people thirteen-month salary.

So at the end of the year, they get double salary in December. In the Guatemala, where I now have an office, you have to pay them thirteenths and fourteenths month salary. So in December they get three salaries. So an employer, I get charged every month just so they do it. But I, I want to do it and, you know, every, everybody gets medical, dental and visual and all, all, all, all the benefits, whether they’re in the US or outside of the US.

Tim Melanson: So why did you decide to hire outside of the US, though?

Max Emma: Um, well, interestingly enough, until about 2016, 2017, when I just had the bookkeeping company, all my flyers, I still have them somewhere, it says 100% in the US. We are all, you know, we don’t offshore, so I was proud [00:14:00] of that. And then I realized that I’m missing out. There was very hard to get talent in the United States.

Like, I had, in two cases, people snatched out of my company by a large corporation. I remember I had a lady who did not have a degree. We were doing M&A, buying bookkeeping companies throughout the United States, so I bought one, and this employee, you know, came with the company, and she stayed, and she was running the office.

And then one of the large corporations, very large, gave her an offer to come and do accounts payable, accounts receivable, I don’t remember, in-house. They doubled her salary. Doubled. And for them it was just, you know, for me it was a lot of money. I think she was making, like, 35,000 at the time. They gave her 65 or 70, and I’m like, "Good luck.

I’m wishing you all the best. I just can’t even come closer to that." So, like, literally, "Thank you for giving me two weeks’ notice." And at this point, that’s what the company were doing. They were just, you know, like, what’s [00:15:00] 30, 40,000 for Facebook or for Google or for something else? Nothing. So they just were getting good people.

I’m like, "What can I do?" And that’s gave me an idea, so maybe it’s time to pivot, and it’s time to start hiring outside of the US. But before I opened the first office in, uh, uh, Philippines, uh, I actually traveled there, learned the culture, met people, traveled around the country before I realized that, okay, I do want to have business in this country.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, because that, that’s the thing is that the dollar is worth so much different that you can pay them something that you can afford, and to them it’s a huge, it’s a huge, um, paycheck, right?

Max Emma: Yeah, I mean, look, my, my, um, a lot of our employees have their own personal cars and everything else. So day and night, it’s not, I’m not running a sweatshop, I can promise you that much. So people make really, really good money, uh, working for us.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, where,

Max Emma: compared to the US salary, it’s less than minimum wage.

I get it. But, you know, [00:16:00] for what they make in this particular country and what the cost of living is, um, they doing really, really good. I mean, I would say that they’re probably doing better than a lot of US employees if you take into consideration, you know, the cost of living in the US

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and it’s probably less likely that someone’s gonna come and offer them double the pa- double the salary, right? It just

Max Emma: Oh, it’s, it’s been done before because for a lot of companies, because they’re paying less, not double, but they’re like, "Okay, we’ll give you an extra $1,000. We’ll give you…" And that’s a lot of money there. So therefore, extra $1,000 a month, people will jump ship. And again, I– this is my policy. I do not, uh, you know, negotiate.

If somebody comes in, "Well, this is the price I’m getting," well, good luck. I mean, I’m not gonna just start matching it. If the, our cultural values and other values are not important for you, then maybe you’re not a good match for the company anyway. So go. I mean, good luck

Tim Melanson: So when you lose somebody though, doesn’t that really [00:17:00] hurt your business? Now you have to tre- retrain somebody? Like

Max Emma: It, it does, but, you know, um, all I can do is to, um, expect that it might happen at some point, so we cross-train everybody. We always have several people working on different, uh, uh, the clients. That’s for the bookkeeping side. For the franchising, uh, uh, and for franchise consulting or brokerage, I use a lot of AI, so hopefully nobody gonna take that away from me.

And over the years, I just learned that if somebody leaves you, then probably the next person gonna be better. So it’s gonna be a shock and tragedy in the beginning, but after a while it’s gonna work out. So, um, I am, I’m fine with that. This is just cost of doing business

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and, and I think that when you… I mean, o- one of the things that you learn, I think, pretty quickly when you’re trying to hire somebody is that you have to have, like, some systems in [00:18:00] place to train people. And once you build those systems, that same system just gets better and better as, you know, it gets more refined.

And so if someone leaves, you’re just using the same system to train the next person. Yes, like you say, it’s gonna hurt some stuff, but you have a system in place that you use to train, so you can train somebody else, right?

Max Emma: Oh, sure. Yes

Tim Melanson: yeah. Now, so when you talk about, uh, um, you know, learning all the things that you’ve learned, you know, in this thing, do you hire coaches?

Do you, do you have people that you hire?

Max Emma: Y-y-yes, I do. Like, I would not be able to do it without coaches. I did the CEO group for, for a while, and now I’m, and again, as I said, a str- strategic coach. And, um, you know, so I travel once a quarter to, uh, Chicago and, you know, spend a day or two, full day with– in a room with other CEOs, and I’m learning a lot from that.

Um, also, I’m trying to read as much [00:19:00] as possible and listen to podcasts. Uh, I actually made it, uh, um, you know, my daily routine. Like, I like– I live, uh, right on the bay, and I like to do 10K walks. Uh, that’s, uh, my cardio workout, and I’m listening to a podcast. So I’m doing my steps in, and then also I’m listening and hopefully training my head.

So I’m actually, um, w- doing a lot, trying to get better. Uh, and the, there is no stop to it because, you know, there is no limit to how you can improve yourself. But look, I’m– I don’t have, like, a lot of expectation. Like, when I have a new book, if I get one nugget out of a book, it’s a great book. So I’m not gonna spend four months, three months reading it.

I’ll listen to it really fast, and again, I get couple ideas. There are some books that I’m coming back to. I use the service that gives you a 15-minute summary for– And that’s not, you know, Shakespeare. I’m talking about business books or [00:20:00] self-development books. But, you know, for me, it works out really well.

But in a day, I can do two books, which if I read them completely, it probably would take me, like, with lack of time, over a month to finish one. But now I’m doing– I’m not doing it every day. Call it 30, 40 books a month. And then again, I write down one idea. So I get one idea out of this book, perfect, and then I implement it or trying to

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s amazing. And, and that’s the thing is that a, a lot of entrepreneurs, I mean, we hear this all the time. Number one, y- you, you also mentioned, like, working out and doing walks. I hear that so much that people who are entrepreneurs have some sort of self-care routine, and they’re learning all the time, right?

And it’s one of those things where, uh, you, you, you don’t necessarily hear that quite as much in, uh, you know, people who are employed with somebody else, right? Do you make sure that your employees, though, have those types of routines?

Max Emma: [00:21:00] Well, I can’t make them. I mean, I believe in leading by example. They know that, like, I, I start my day early, but around 4:00 PM, I shut down. I mean, the– everybody, my 4:00 PM and on the West Coast, most of my employees already done because they’re in different time zones, like Central mo- most of the time. Um, but, you know, uh, they know that after 4:00, I’m going to a gym, and that’s my, my time.

So that, that’s it. Because if I don’t, it’ll be 8:00 PM, I’m still gonna be in front of the computer without dinner because there’ll be always something to do. And I’m running a marathon, not a sprint. So in order for me to run the marathon, I have to, you know, pace myself. ‘Cause, you know, if I just do work 14-hour days, I can do it for a day or two, but then, you know, I get tired, and I need a few days to get my energy back.

So again, uh, when people say, "Well, I’m working 20-hour days," great. When I was [00:22:00] younger, I probably could have done that, but as you get older, you know, you get depleted of your energy. At least I do

Tim Melanson: Me too. Yeah, I, I mean, you get sick too, right? And, uh, I think that’s feedback

Max Emma: but, but having said that, if you do what you like, again, being your unique ability, you’re enjoying it so much it stop being work. I mean, I see you have Beatles T-shirt. I’ve seen Paul McCartney twice live. The guy was on the stage for three hours and 20 minutes. That was right before COVID. I saw him in New Orleans.

Three hours and 20 minutes, he hasn’t left the stage once, you know? And he doesn’t do it for money. He, he’s got it, but the guy enjoyed it so much, like, I think if you would’ve let him, he would do another two hours

Tim Melanson: Yeah, he probably would’ve. I would’ve let

Max Emma: Yeah, no, for sure. But my point is, and then I did, like, went to private si- soundcheck before, which, you know, all the money went to charity. He did 45-minute concert [00:23:00] before the concert. So it was, like, four hours of, of Paul McCartney. But again, for him it’s not work. I understand it’s all rehearsed, I understand it’s a show, and there are a lot of elements.

I get it. So it is work, and he’s com- getting compensated, as he should. But I bet you he’s going there to have fun and get energy from this, you know, 40,000 people at the stadium

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, speaking of the fans, like, tell me how do you, how do you… Like, I mean, the world has changed so much over the last, you know, uh, 20, 30 years, and nowadays, I mean, everyone is online. It’s so easy to connect with people. But you have to get them converted into fans. Like, and there’s so much noise out there.

So I’m wondering, what are some of the strategies that you use nowadays to get people to buy from you?

Max Emma: Well, first of all, I don’t want to sell to them, so I am always trying to be always in a buyer’s mode. [00:24:00] So even when I sell somebody services, I’m actually buying for, uh, I’m buying my customers. So what I mean, I’m not desperate, at least that’s how I train my head, to sell them something. Because when you’re selling, you are willing to do anything.

Like, "Okay, give me 5% discount and I’ll sign there." And you want this deal so much, you’re like, "Okay, yes, I’ll, I’ll give it to you." And then they start pushing, pushing. When you’re buying, it’s totally fine. Like, if they don’t want your services, it’s okay, then this is not for me. So when I sell franchises, for example, a bookkeeping franchise, yes, I do want franchisee.

Yes, I want to open more offices throughout the United States, but I’m taking my sweet time to find the right person, and I’ve said more nos than I’ve said yeses. Even though, you know, I could have made money on it, but in the long run, it would not be, um, it would not be the right choice for, for the company.

And look, um, yes, everything is online, so we’re trying to automate as much as possible, but when I get [00:25:00] an opportunity to meet somebody live, I’m always doing that. ‘Cause for me, uh, like when I sell, for example, bookkeeping franchise, I make a point of going to the city where I sold it later on and meet this person for lunch, dinner, drinks, coffee, whatever, and spend time with them, ’cause I want this connection.

For me, nothing can replace… I can’t be in front of the computer for a long time. If I do, I have to, you know, call some of my friends or colleagues, say, "Hey, let’s go have a cigar. Let’s go have, have a drink." Just so I have a personal communication with somebody

Tim Melanson: Yeah, that theme is coming up a lot more often, and I, I get it because now with AI and all that stuff and, uh, I mean, now if you can make the effort to actually meet someone in person, it’s a big deal, right? Or, or even on, even on video it’s a big deal, right? ‘Cause people are just trying to send emails or trying to just connect with people on social media, and it doesn’t land the same way.

I mean, we, we do business with people, right?

Max Emma: Well, sure. And look, like social [00:26:00] media, it’s a lot of your energy. Uh, one of the biggest things that I’ve done to myself, and it helped to run three businesses now, I have a block for social media from 5:00 AM to 5:00 PM every day. Yes, I can undo the block, but it’s a special process I have to go. But right now, I wake up in the morning, I don’t immediately start looking what’s going on on my Facebook, okay?

Yes, I mean, I have– it goes back on at 5:00 PM, so if I’m, you know, doing whatever at night, I can look at, you know, my l- you know, messages. But, uh, during the day, we don’t do it. I mean, I don’t do it. But I do have a, a social media manager for, uh, the companies. That’s his full-time job, is to actually do the posts business related.

So he is– he has access to my social media, but he’s doing it for business. But I don’t have access to it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. Well, let’s get into your solos. Tell me what’s exciting in your business right now then

Max Emma: Well, um, [00:27:00] as I mentioned, you know, one business, uh, ran, I mean, actually led to another business. Like, I started bookkeeping, then by accident I started doing bookkeeping for a franchise brand. Then two, three, and I started going to franchise conferences, and I really like being around franchisors, so I franchised the business.

As I mentioned, we’re the only bookkeeping franchise in the US right now. And then I realized that some people are not a good match for bookskipping, for bookkeeping franchise. So I did open the franchise brokerage, and I’m really enjoying it because I do get, I call them corporate refugees, for example, somebody who doesn’t wanna work for corporate America for whatever reason.

Maybe they lose their job, maybe it’s their choice. And in some cases, by the way, it’s because they don’t want to working in the office 8:00 to 5:00. I have, I placed couple people who exactly said that, like, "We don’t want to be have… We want to have a flexibility." So I have over 600 franchises to choose from, and it’s a little bit of art.

You listen to the person like, "Have you considered this?" Like, "Oh, I haven’t thought that, [00:28:00] you know, I would enjoy, you know, painting franchise." Because a lot of people, they, um, mix up hobbies and the business. And I always say that, look, you can be the best cook and you be, you could be horrible in running a pizza franchise because, you know, nobody cares that you know the best recipe of pizza.

A Domino’s not gonna allow you to use your grandmother recipe. The pepperoni pizza has to be exactly the same in Beijing, San Diego, and planet Mars, you know? Because that’s their, um, recipe, and they don’t really care what you know and how good a cook of, or cook you are. So a lot of people mix it up, and that, that’s the mistake.

So I’m always trying to break through it. I’m like, it’s not about your hobby. It’s not what you’re good at. Are you good with people? A lot of candidates, they don’t realize, they think McDonald’s for example, it’s a restaurant. Well, between you and me, it’s not. Average McDonald has 50 plus [00:29:00] employees. So if you buy a pack of two or three, you have 150 employees.

You are in human capital business. You have to deal with 150 employees because most of the owners of McDonald’s have at least three, okay? That’s, that’s a different business. Yes, you do have managers, but if, you know, because you pay mostly minimum wage, ’cause otherwise the system not gonna support itself, and then people leaving and going somewhere else and you are short 10 people, what are you gonna do?

Tim Melanson: Go help.

Max Emma: Exactly. I mean, so, so my, my, my point is that people don’t, don’t think beyond what, what they’re good at. Well, I’m an accountant, so I’m only gonna buy a bookkeeping franchise, for example. First of all, you don’t have to be an accountant to buy a franchise, because we do train. But second of all, um, there are other options.

I mean, I’ve seen some CPAs who are running, um, male, uh, uh, hormones clinics, and they’re [00:30:00] doing great. I mean, uh, I know two of them that own six or eight each, and they have a successful CPA practice

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. So then what’s the process? Uh, like if I wanted to buy a franchise and I wanted to connect with you, what do I, what would I do and, and what would I expect?

Max Emma: So, I mean, that’s why I created this website, Franchise with Max, where people can go and choose if they wanna talk about bookkeeping for their business, if they wanna talk about book keeping franchise or help with, uh, um, you know, choosing over 600 different franchising. Um, it’s, it’s a conversation. So we’re just having a conversation.

I just wanna know more what you want to, uh, do with your life. I mean, how many hours do you wanna work? What are your expectation? I mean, I have some, uh, clients who just want to do it part-time. They’re like, "You know what? I like playing golf." I mean, in my stage of life, uh, they’re saying, "I want to go and enjoy, you know, five hours a day, I want to play golf.

So I don’t mind [00:31:00] working the other half day, but I don’t wanna work 12 hours." Well, if you don’t wanna work 12 hours or 14 hours, then probably a restaurant is not a business for you unless you wanna have a general manager. If you want 8:00 to 5:00 business, then, you know, open a B2B. Like, because, yes, you might…

if you open book keeping franchise, you might need to get and do some work over the weekend, but you’re not probably gonna talk to a client on Saturday or Sunday. Nobody expecting you to return the call at 10:00 PM. If you opening a dog boarding business, I mean, I have friends, they own couple, uh, dog hotels.

They’re doing really great financially. But, um, interestingly enough, New Year’s Day, and then day after Thanksgiving, almost everybody calling in sick. And these two guys, they’re doing really well, have to go at 4:00 in the morning and feed the dogs. So they’re actually two brothers. One of them is always in town.

They, they can’t, uh, travel, you know, at the same time. One always has [00:32:00] to stay for that particular reason. Yes, they’re making ton of money, but they’re limited. They

Tim Melanson: they’re

Max Emma: you know, go together and s- you know, have fun.

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s awesome. Okay, so then if we wanna find out more, we go to franchisewithmax.com. Is there any other way to get in touch with you?

Max Emma: I mean, LinkedIn would be great, uh, and but FranchisesMax is probably the easiest. Franchisesmax.com, there is a QR code here. Um, you know, my services are completely free. That’s very important. We get paid by a franchisor if somebody buys a franchise. If not, doesn’t cost you a conversation. But, uh, not only we getting paid by franchisor, I’m sharing part of it with my, um, uh, candidates, and also I pay for nine months of their sales training, because I want them to be successful.

So I’m pretty much giving close to half of what the money that I make on my commission. So it’s not only free, I give you money, I give you the money back. And if you go directly to a franchise, by law, they cannot give you [00:33:00] any cash discount because you called them directly. So our fees, broker’s fees, coming directly from a franchisor, uh, as a compensation.

But again, if you call directly to this particular pizza franchise, they will not give you any discount because you skipped the broker. So use us. We are consultants. I mean, it’s… we’re not even brokers. Uh, it’s, it’s a word of the past. It’s a franchise consulting. It’s a conversation. I mean, I went back to school to get my certified franchise executive.

I do know a thing or two about franchising, so let’s have a conversation. That’s all I can say. And for some people, um, they want to work from home. So out of 600, I would say 300 of them are home-based businesses. So if that’s the case for you, do it. I mean, A, you don’t have to get the storefront, you don’t have to sign a five-year lease, and you can work from a spare bedroom or living room

Tim Melanson: Oh, I love that. That’s great. All right, well, before we go, I got one more question for you. Let’s talk about music. So who is your favorite rock star or [00:34:00] band?

Max Emma: So I am a huge Beatles fan. I mean, as I said, I’ve seen McCartney, McCartney twice. Uh, uh, and I went to see Ringo just because I wanted to see, well, there are two live Beatles, uh, and I want, I want to see them both. Um, I like, uh, Queen. Obviously, I didn’t get a chance to see Freddie Mercury, but I’ve seen them touring with Adam Lambert.

I’ve seen them two or three times. Elton John, Billy Joel, I’ve seen each of them four or five times. Sting, probably six times. So I– and, and look, whenever there is a famous band and they’re getting older, I always wanna make a point to see them because it might be your last chance. Like, I’ve seen Aerosmith, and in Vegas, I flew for that because later when they had the farewell tour, it got canceled.

I had the ticket, and I got my money back. I didn’t see it. So you never know when is the last opportunity to see this artist. Like, I’ve seen Bob Dylan a year ago, but he just came back few days ago to San Diego. I didn’t go again, but who knew if [00:35:00] he’s gonna be touring again or not? So, so whenever I see, like, the older name, like I’ve seen– I went to see Tony Bennett a year before he died because I knew it’s probably one of the last opportunities to do so

Tim Melanson: Wow. So you’re a big supporter of live music. I love that.

Max Emma: Oh, yeah. I, I go, I go all the time. Whenever there is live music or live theater. I’m a huge Broadway fan, so, uh, whenever I get an opportunity, I go. Like, I just came back from a franchise conference in New York, and I saw five shows in three days

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow.

We must have taken some extra time in,

Max Emma: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I, I go by work hard,

play hard

Tim Melanson: Oh, that’s awesome. So awesome. Thank you so much, Max. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for rocking out with me today.

Max Emma: Team, thank you very much for the opportunity

Tim Melanson: Awesome. To the listeners, make sure you go to, you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar Podcast. Very excited for this episode. We’re talking to a marketing strategist from Bolt From The Blue Copywriting, and what she does is she helps, she helps to create marketing strategies and write copy and content that helps people build relationships with their clients and audience so they can share ideas that matter and make more money.

That sounds pretty cool to me. So we are rocking out today with Rachel Allen. Hey, Rachel, you ready to rock?

Rachel Allen: I am ready

at literally at all times

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, let’s rock out then. We always start off here on a good note. Tell me a story of success that we

can be inspired by

Rachel Allen: Hmm. You know, I, uh, I had a couple, but I think the one I’m gonna go with is actually how I started my business and how I became a work-from-home rockstar. I’ve never actually had another job, uh, as an adult. So I graduated from college with a journalism degree, and, uh, but the problem was I graduated into the ’08 recession, and of course, nobody was hiring anybody, and especially not people from rural Tennessee.

So, um, in my 22-year-old brain, I was like, "Well, what’s the furthest away I can get [00:01:00] from Tennessee?" And turns out it’s Hong Kong. So I bought a plane ticket, and I left. But I didn’t get a work visa or, like, do anything to prepare for it, and so I landed in Hong Kong with, like, 200 bucks in my bank account, and I had to make rent.

So I’m googling, like, how to make money online, which is only marginally less ridiculous then than it is now. And I found this, uh, job called copywriting, and I was like, "Well, I don’t know what that is, but I can do writing." Um, and I took it, and they paid me, and I was absolutely hooked, and that’s what I built my business off of.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Uh, it’s awesome in retrospect, mostly terrifying during

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I bet. Uh, I’m, and I imagine

there’s probably a language barrier and all that stuff. Do you speak the language or anything, or? You probably

Rachel Allen: minor, I mean, my minor was in Mandarin, but they speak Cantonese there primarily, and so I, I know just enough to get in trouble. You know, I can order at a restaurant, go to the bathroom, that kind of thing

Tim Melanson: Okay. So wow, that, that sounds amazing. Now, along with the good note though, sometimes things [00:02:00] don’t go as planned. And so I’m wondering, uh, we do like to talk about that on this show because it, it is what keeps people out of the game in the first place, is just afraid to fail. And, uh, I’m wondering, can you share with me something that didn’t go as planned and how you recovered and how we can recover?

Rachel Allen: Yeah. Well, uh, my bad note’s kind of tied to my good note, actually. So I spent a couple years in Hong Kong and then ended up living nomadically for the next 10 years, and I moved about every six months. I didn’t really know what I was doing with the business, though, so, um, I got into this situation where I hadn’t paid taxes in three years in two separate countries, and I just kind of ignored it and, like, really hoped it would go away.

And I think as we all know, that doesn’t happen. So I eventually came to this point where I had to, like, work up my courage and call an accountant and be like, "I’ve done something very, very bad." And they had to assemble this international team of accountants to get me filed appropriately in each country.

But that led to me having to hand categorize every expense I’d had for the past three years. And if you ever wanna really [00:03:00] rethink your decision-making paradigm, that is a good way to do it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Well, something similar happened to me too. I got, I got in trouble with taxes. Only one country though, so it was much easier. But the, the really good thing that came out of that is the same thing as you just said, I got into a really good accounting procedures of, like, accounting for everything, ’cause they need to know all that stuff, right?

And, and, uh, especially for, like, uh, business categories and making sure that everything’s in the right spot, but it worked for my personal as well. So the good silver lining, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I still do this every single week now. I hand categorize my expenses just kind of out of habit. I have a bookkeeper and an accountant, but I’m like, I just wanna keep my finger kind of on the pulse of what I’m doing, and I think that that’s really saved me from a lot of the, like, little bad decisions you can get into in business.

Like, you know, the subscriptions you don’t realize you’re still paying for, or like, oh, I haven’t used that email service in a year. Why is that still there, you know?

Tim Melanson: Well, and the, I mean, this lends really [00:04:00] well to the hat, to keeping the hat full, uh, which we talk, talk about all the time about the cashflow. ‘Cause I, I mean, there’s a lot of people that just really do avoid the, you know, the day to day, and they don’t check these things. And I mean, you kind of fell into that category as well.

So I’m wondering, uh, actually, just to take a step back, why do you think people avoid it so much?

Rachel Allen: Hmm. You know, I think in my case it was shame. It was a lot of shame. Um, I had never thought that I was ever gonna run a business because, um, I’m actually dyscalculic, which is ma- math dyslexia. I don’t… I’m not good with numbers. They, like, switch on me. And so I had this idea that because I’m bad at math, I can’t be good with money, which, you know, it’s silly, but we make those weird connections in our brains.

And so I was like, "Oh, well, I can’t. I’m afraid I’m gonna break it if I touch it, so I’m just gonna kind of like hope that everything works out." And I eventually had to go through this mindset shift of like, well, this is a part of my business. I need to treat it just like any other element of it, and realize that, like, I’m not gonna, I don’t [00:05:00] know, accidentally burn my house down if I do the spreadsheet wrong.

So I had to get over that shame, and I think that’s where a lot of people come from too. They just, they don’t know what you don’t know, and I think it can be intimidating to approach an expert, um, in that area

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think there’s, I think there’s shame. I think there’s also that programming even, right? That math is hard, right? Uh, uh, ’cause you do see that quite a bit, right? Where it’s, it’s sort of like normalized and it’s like cool to be, you know, not good at math. I don’t know. You know, the cool people are not good at math and the nerds or the geeks are good at math.

And it’s just like, so you sort of have this programming in there as well that might be playing a part. I don’t know if it does or not, right?

Rachel Allen: Oh, definitely. And as you say that, I think another part of it that trips a lot of people up, or it certainly did me, was I tried to follow other people’s systems for keeping on top of my finances, and I was like, "Oh, no, I need to break this down, like, to a really basic checklist for me," because my nervous system is already so weird about it.

I need to figure out a way that works for me so I’m not trying to go in and, like, use a software that doesn’t [00:06:00] make sense to me or do a whole bunch of calculations by hand because, you know, that’s never gonna work out well. So I had to find my own way to do it

Tim Melanson: And I think that, um, I, I mean, I, I would say probably the worst thing, of course, is to do nothing like, but

Rachel Allen: Yeah, don’t do that.

Tim Melanson: but then the next worst thing, which is also could be better, could be good, is to find someone to help you with it or to find someone to do it for you.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: that, I mean, there’s a lot of horror stories of people taking a- being taken advantage of by people that are handling the money for them type thing, right?

And I mean, sure, i- if, you know, if it’s someone that you can trust or if it’s your spouse, hopefully you can trust your spouse. Yeah, I know. But I mean, it, it’s not that bad when you really, like, sit down with it. I, I think, like you say, most of the issues that we have with that are programming issues, shame issues.

They’re, they’re things that are kind of like making us [00:07:00] avoid it. But when you really do look at it, I mean, it, it, it’s, it’s really just kind of… It’s as simple as you try to make it be, I think, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, totally. And I mean, one thing that was a big change for me was I actually ended up working with a financial behaviorist as well as an accountant, and her whole deal is like, yeah, money is, of course it’s emotional because our decision-making is emotional. And so it’s going in and, like, kind of unpicking that programming and seeing whether you still wanna make decisions from that basis or not

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. A- and, and I think, you know what? There might be a portion of it that is sort of like self-sabotaging as well, thinking that, "Well, if I don’t look at how little money I have,

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm

Tim Melanson: maybe then it will justify me making this terrible purchase idea that I’m about to make." Right?

Rachel Allen: Exactly. Totally.

Tim Melanson: Because I mean, if you really knew what the numbers were, you probably wouldn’t be buying that right now, right?

Rachel Allen: Oh, absolutely. And I think with entrepreneurs, we’re all, I think, prone to [00:08:00] shiny, shiny object syndrome, and it’s like, "Well, but if I buy that one more thing, then it’s gonna make me money, so really I’m saving money." And I’m like, "Maybe, or you’re just fooling yourself."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh yeah, well, and we get that in the consumer world too. "Well, it’s on sale, it means

Rachel Allen: Right, right.

Tim Melanson: you know, I’m making money by buying this"

Rachel Allen: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Tim Melanson: Right? So I, I, I do th- I mean, I, I think this is a, a massive topic that I think… I think what you just said about getting a, what is, was it a financial behavior specialist?

Rachel Allen: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: th- that’s probably a good place to start rather than going directly towards an accountant, because maybe there’s some blocks there that would just… Uh, I mean, ac- accountants and b- and bookkeepers, I mean, I don’t think they’re super expensive, but they’re, they’re also not free. So, you know, maybe putting a little bit of money into why it is that you’re avoiding the numbers, because I’m not saying that every entrepreneur needs to be on top of the numbers as much as you and I are, of course.

But I think it, [00:09:00] I, I think every entrepreneur has to have at least a basic understanding of where their money is going. Uh, like, y- you know, if you think it, about it, uh, even a CEO in a massive company, I mean, they get reports on this kind of stuff. Like, it, it, of course it’s not their job. They’ve got a s- you know, a technical officer that’s handling…

Or sorry, a financial officer that’s handling that ty- type of stuff, but they get the reports. They have a basic understanding of where their money’s going. So you should too, right?

Rachel Allen: Like anything else in your business, and I mean anything I do, whether it’s, uh, what- whatever I’m outsourcing, I wanna know that I can at least do it kinda sorta a little bit myself, even though I’m not going to do it forever ’cause someone else is better at it. I need to know, though, um, enough to where I can know if they’re screwing it up

Tim Melanson: Yes, there you go. And that’s probably a, a- that, well, that’s a really good, uh, example of every part of your business. And I think that that’s why, like, like when you get started as a, as a solopreneur, like you are wearing all those hats, and I think that’s a good place to start for most people is you, you, you start small, you know, y- [00:10:00] you know, your business is small, so your problems are small, right?

And, and so you can get a basic handle of how all your pl- your things work. And then the things that aren’t your gift zone, sure, you can start to delegate those things. But at least you know, like you say, I, I know if I’m hiring somebody who knows what they’re doing or not, because I know enough to know that part, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, absolutely. And then that way, I mean, something I’ve done before was I would really second-guess myself of like, "Well, they’re the expert. I mean, it doesn’t seem right, but it must be, uh-uh." And like that doesn’t work out either. So much like with, I think, finding therapists or any other service provider, you might go through a couple of accountants before you find the one who really gets you and who’s right for you.

And knowing enough to know what’s going on helps shore up that intuition where you’re like, "I don’t know, seems like a bad fit

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, if they can’t explain it to you like what you just said, uh, they c- i- it’s, it’s likely that they don’t know what they’re doing either ’cause anybody who really knows their topic should be able [00:11:00] to explain something to somebody else like they’re an eighth

Rachel Allen: Yeah, yeah,

Tim Melanson: or whatever it is, right?

So I mean, just because you might not be as much of an expert as they are, they should be able to explain to you, "Oh, no, no, I do it this way because of this." And then, like you say, follow your gut. Y- y- you could probably get a good gut feeling of whether they’re doing it that way because they’re, they’re skimming stuff off or because it actually is a really good i- uh, idea and strategy, right?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. And a lot of times even just the willingness. Like, I- that’s something I ask when I’m interviewing any service provider. I’m like, "How okay are you with answering my questions?" Like, I wanna be able to come to you and just say like, "Look, I, I’m not questioning you, but I need to understand why."

And if they’re like, "Oh, well, you need to trust my process," I’m like, "Okay, that’s fine. I do, and also, like, could we chat about it?"

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. So now when it comes to, like you mentioned that you were kind of moving around a lot,

Rachel Allen: Yeah

Tim Melanson: does that work for setting up your home office?

Rachel Allen: Ugh. I had to learn, uh, really quickly how to make that work for me, because I was in this… [00:12:00] You know, I was moving every six months. I was in different countries, different Airbnbs. This was, like, mid-aughts-ish, and so the internet wasn’t as common, and, as it is now, you know? Um, so what I learned really quickly was what works for me is I need a place with a flat surface and a comfortable chair that is very quiet or that I can make quiet.

I wasn’t doing as many calls back then, so it didn’t really matter if it was, like, you know, elevated the way I have this set up now. But, um, I did so much working on my laptop on my actual lap. Or, like, um, I was living in Greece for a while, and people are like, "Work on the beach." It’s a horrible idea. Don’t buy it.

Don’t ever do it. It’s the worst thing you’ll ever do. So I’ve experimented with all these things, and I had to find that. And then the one thing, um, that I would recommend everybody do, especially if they’re moving around to a bunch of places, you need something that tells your brain, "Hey, this is the work spot."

And so I actually have, um, a little cat figurine. It’s right

up there behind me if anybody’s watching this on video.

And that tiny little [00:13:00] cat, I call it my home cat, ’cause I bought it when I was in Hong Kong, and I was like, "Well, I’m moving, but ev- wherever the home cat is, that’s where home is." And so when I set that up, I’m like, "Okay, this is, this is home.

This is office space. This is where I do stuff." So if you can find little talismans that just tell your brain, "This is where we do the thing," then it helps so much, I think, with procrastination and brain fog, ’cause your brain’s like, "Well, this is where we do the thing

Tim Melanson: That’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. I remember when I was, uh, uh, when I was starting to work from home, my, uh, my son was very young at the time, and I ge- had this idea of putting on a work hat of like,

Rachel Allen: Yeah. Yeah,

Tim Melanson: that they don’t bug you when you’re wearing your work hat. Like, and it kind of like a similar thing, ’cause it probably did work as some sort of like, like you say, talisman or some sort of like cue to your brain that, okay, well I’m working right now.

So it probably helped with productivity

Rachel Allen: Yeah, absolutely. And another thing that people, uh, don’t think about is smells. So I have, um, like a scented candle that I light every morning when I go to work, and smells are such a powerful cue to your brain. So anything that you like, whether it’s like, hey, this is the c- [00:14:00] the coffee I only have at my desk, or this is the tea I drink here, this is the perfume I wear here, or whatever, that can be a super powerful cue

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s awesome. So smells and things that you’re looking at. Now, what, what about, like, inspiration in your… Do you have any of that?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, so actually as I look behind you right here, um, my house is literally like built up into the side of a mountain, so all it is is just green all the way up. Um, and there’s little like squirrels and chipmunks and stuff run around, but I can watch the leaves move, and I found that I just need a space where I can let my eyes like go into the middle distance.

Um, otherwise I get really distracted and I find myself like opening the same tabs over and over and over again even though like nothing is happening on LinkedIn, I don’t need to be there, but I’m like, "Hmm, let me just check." And I just need to have something to where I can kind of like gaze as I’m thinking

Tim Melanson: That’s a really good idea, and I think that that probably aligns with a lot of people as well. You- if you don’t have anything to look at that distracts you, like on purpose, then you’re gonna get distracted by something not on purpose, right?

Rachel Allen: Totally. [00:15:00] And for me, I think nature is such an important part of that. I’ve worked in cities as well, and I’ve had like, um, places where I would overlook like city si- skylines, and that works too. But something about having a tree moving outside my office just really helps my brain work

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, it’s nature. I mean, that’s what our, that’s what we are, right?

Rachel Allen: Right

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So now, how did you learn all this stuff? Like, where do you get all this? Is it, uh, do you hire coaches? Like, how does this all work for you?

Rachel Allen: So, uh, in the beginning I was in this, like, really strong state of denial that I was actually running a business, so I was like, "Don’t teach me anything about business. I’m not doing such a thing." But after I finally made that decision to really commit to it, uh, I did start working with coaches. So I’ve worked with several coaches over the years.

Um, I’ve also found masterminds to be a really integral part of my growth because I read, I don’t even remember where, but I read something early on of, like, make friends with people and then 20 years down the road, you know, that’s how you know all the cool people in the, like, ridiculous positions that no one ever knows how to connect with.

And so that’s been a huge part of my business, is just I like making friends [00:16:00] with people. It’s why I do podcast guesting. It’s why I love being in small groups and masterminds and, like, going to retreats and stuff. Because that’s how now, 18 years down the road, I’m like, "Oh, of course I know the CEO of blah, blah, blah.

I was there with her when she started the business," you know? And so it’s just, like, not reverse engineering or, like, having these transactional relationships, but just finding people that you think are cool and putting yourself in a room where you are not the smartest human and just being like, "Okay, just talk at me.

Like, just say stuff."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh, that’s awesome. Uh, I, I agree with that because I, like, I have hi- hired coaches as well. However, I think I’ve gotten the most out of… Like, and for me, I don’t, um, I have been parts of, part of masterminds, but this podcast really is my mastermind. I get to meet people that are way ahead of me on their journey, and I get to people, to meet people that are just getting started on their journey, and I like that.

I like being able to talk to both, right? I like to be able to kinda, like, aspire to something, and I also like to be able to help somebody. And I think that the [00:17:00] masterminds are, are kind of, like, built for that, right? Like, other than running your own podcast or getting on podcast guests, if you’re part of a mastermind, you just get that.

And having peers that you are on the same level as with as well that don’t have anything to gain from, like, they’re not competing with you. You know what I mean?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: And they’re not making money from you, right?

Rachel Allen: Exactly, like with that spirit of generosity. Like I had, um, a period, oh gosh, several years ago now, where I was really struggling with something, and I came to the mastermind, and I actually started crying, which I don’t normally do. But I was so touched because everyone in it just went like, zhoop, like this like pit crew around me, and they’re like, "All right.

Here’s what I’m gonna fix for you. Here’s who I’m gonna introduce you to. Here’s what happens next. Here’s how we’re gonna build your confidence." And just having that network of people to be like, "Hey, I don’t care how you show up. I really like you, and I believe in you even when you don’t believe in yourself," it’s so powerful

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I, I do think that this community, like the self-employed community, is a, is a community. We all kind of have… I mean, I, I don’t know how many- I’ve done [00:18:00] so many episodes of this, and everybody is helpful for each other, right?

Rachel Allen: totally. That’s what I love about it because, like, people will ask me a lot of times, like, "What’s it like being an entrepreneur?" And I’m like, "Well, it’s, it’s problem-solving, right?" That’s the entire job. Entrepreneurship is where basically nothing is your fault, but almost everything is your problem. And so I think that’s why everyone is so helpful, ’cause we’re like, I, you know, I know I would not be able to solve all the problems by myself, but maybe I can solve yours, and then maybe later you’ll solve mine, or you know somebody who solves mine or whatever.

And there’s a real generosity of spirit that I’ve found

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I know one thing is that w- probably the most common mistake or, or, or, or issue that people have is undercharging. Like, so come on, right?

Rachel Allen: I’ve got a magnet somewhere up there, oh, in the corner, yeah, over right there, that says, "Charge more," and it’s actually from the person who leads the mastermind that I’m in. And so that’s why it’s not always the right answer, but it’s often the right answer, you know?

Tim Melanson: It is often the right answer, yeah. And, uh, but I think that’s because of [00:19:00] what you just said. We like solving problems, right? It’s, you know, if we, if we take the, the music as the example, I know that most musicians would play for free, right? And, and that’s the reason why so many people, uh, w- that’s why the, the prices have not gone up.

Like, you know, musicians today in my city make actually less than they did in the ’80s. Like, it, it’s insane. But it’s just because we love it. So, you know, we’re just like, "You know what? I just wanted to… Like, any opportunity to play and I’m, I’m there." And I think the same thing happens in a lot of businesses.

It’s your baby. It’s what you love to do. So someone says, "Well, can you do it for this?" And you’re just like, "Oh, sure." Of course, that doesn’t work long-term

Rachel Allen: It really doesn’t. I get it though. I mean, like, I was absolutely boggled that anybody would pay me to do something that I do compulsively. Like, I cannot go a day without writing. It’s going to happen whether I want to or not. And so I had to really have a lot of shifts around that [00:20:00] and think like, "Okay, well what’s the value I’m actually providing here versus, I don’t know, like just give me five bucks or whatever," you know?

Tim Melanson: Well, let’s, let’s hear a little bit more about that. It’s time for your guest solo. So what is e- exciting in your business then?

Rachel Allen: Oh, so, I mean, there’s so many things. But what I’m really excited about is, um, I know that words make worlds. Words are the technology through which ideas and influence spread, and that’s what marketing’s all about. It’s just using words in a way that makes it easy for somebody to say yes to something.

So, um, I do that in a whole bunch of ways, but the thing I’m really excited about right now is I’m actually been doing some book outlining. And, um, it might sound a little off the beaten path, but it’s all the same thing, right? Like a book is still the, the process of making it easy for someone to buy your idea, to buy something in your business, whatever.

And, um, kind of harking back to our mastermind thing, the reason I got started on it was I kinda like … I’ve been doing it for a while, I’ve been helping clients out, being the editor on 19 books now, and I … It’s just fun. I didn’t even think about like really making it into a part of my business until my mastermind was like, "Hey, yo, people [00:21:00] don’t do it like you do it.

No one helps people like you help people. You need to make this an offer." So that’s what I’ve been doing.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, that’s awesome. So then how does it work then?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, so, um, I meet with people for four calls, and they just show up. They have, like, the idea for their book, and, like, maybe some notes, but they’ve just never been able to kind of get it out of their brains, and so they just sort of talk at me, and then I pull all the puzzle pieces together and put it into an outline that breaks it down, like, almost kind of like a paint by numbers of your own book.

So it’s in, like, 500-word chunks, and so I’ll be like, "Okay, in chapter one you need to start out by telling me this story. Re- remember you said points A, B, and C. Now I want you to transition and tell me about this. Spend 100 words saying this, then 200 blah, blah, blah." And so I really walk you through, like, step by step by step, and it makes it very easy to drop into the outline wherever you want so you don’t have to do it, like, linearly, and you can still know that everybody’s, everything is gonna be in the right order and, like, you’re not gonna, like, drop something out

Tim Melanson: Hmm. So I, and I would guess that this kind of outline, this, this is probably the [00:22:00] block of most people, right? Why, why they’re not writing the book that they think they want to write, right?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. ‘Cause you, like, you go down, like, the endless, like, research hole, or you get stuck on, like, well, does this story belong in chapter five or chapter 25? So, like, it’s all the thinking work that goes into doing a book, and if you front-load it, I mean, everybody I’ve done this with has finished their book in three months after the outline’s done, ’cause, like, all you gotta do is write.

You don’t have to think

Tim Melanson: Well, yeah, thinking’s bad, right? Just kidding. No, well, and, and I mean, a lot of the

Rachel Allen: It’s hard. Takes time.

Tim Melanson: times, yeah, you’re just unblocking yourself and allowing that, that to come out, right? ‘Cause I- that’s the thing is that you know your story. It’s just, it’s kinda difficult to put it together sometimes or to separate it, actually make it into smaller chunks,

Rachel Allen: And it’s hard to get perspective. Like, you need somebody on the outside. I, I do as well, right? When I write my own books. You have to have somebody on the outside who’s like, "Okay, here’s the through line. Here’s where that goes." Because when you’re so close to it, you can’t see it

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. And how do, so how do people find out about this then?

Rachel Allen: Uh, they can find it out on my website at [00:23:00] boltfromthebluecopywriting.com or, um, just connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram. I’m happy to chat about it

Tim Melanson: Awesome. One more question now before we get into the, uh, the … And I’m not sure if you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna say about this, but what do you think about AI now with writing?

Rachel Allen: People ask me about this a lot. Um, I don’t have any, like, moral objection to it. Um, I know a lot of people get very upset at the idea of people using it, and I’m like, "Look, it’s your life. You do what you want with it." What I will say is I don’t use it in my own marketing, um, and I don’t use it for my clients because I have yet to find something that can do it, you know, as, as well or as fast as me, and there’s intellectual property risks because that…

You know, it’s changing, but right now the way the rulings are is if you create something using AI, you cannot own the intellectual property to it. So, like, I’m never gonna, like, give somebody a course that they can’t own. So that’s why I recommend that you avoid it in your creative endeavors

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think that’s, uh… And, and that actually does make sense ’cause you didn’t actually create it. You ha- [00:24:00] used AI. Now, I imagine that there might be some probably gray area. I mean, if you’ve mostly given the AI the information, and it just sort of, like, fine-tuned it for you, well then maybe that’s an editor?

I don’t know. But,

Rachel Allen: Yeah. It’s still like, I don’t know, there’s stuff working their way through the courts, but the way that I recommend people to use it is, like, I think it’s a great thought partner. I think it can be good for getting you over that, like, blank page thing. Um, it’s good for starting you off on research, though of course you need to check it.

So it’s basically, it’s like having an intern. And what I mean by that, like, it’s an intern on their first day where they’re like, "Here’s this thing. It’s the most amazing thing ever." And you’re like, "Absolutely not. Remove this from my site. Do it again."

Tim Melanson: Yes, that’s a really good analogy. And, uh, it’s like having a whole lot of those interns that w- can work really fast, and that’s, that is great because, um, I know I’ve, I use it quite a bit, and it is fantastic at helping you to talk through [00:25:00] ideas and all these other things that you’d be just wasting someone’s time with.

But you can talk to the AI and kind of like flesh out your own stuff. But as for getting it to do stuff for you and, and write your, your book for you, or even your, uh… I mean, you really have to train it pretty fine tunely, and you might as well just do it yourself,

Rachel Allen: Exactly. And like, I don’t know, the thing I tell people, or I guess the, the pitfall I see people falling into with it is they lose their confidence and they think that it knows better than them, and I’m like, "Absolutely not. It’s just a tool." Like, your instinct is right. Whatever it is, you do know better.

And like run it by a person, you know?

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Now, uh, the, I, I think the good news, like, so right now I think we’re in a bit of a tr- transitionary period where it’s kinda like coming out like full strength right now and everybody’s using it for everything, and that’s great. But, um, it kind of gives you everybody the same stuff. So everybody’s content is starting to look kinda the same.

And so if you’re the [00:26:00] one who’s actually writing it yourself or you’re hiring someone like Rachel Dawson to write it, then your content is gonna start to stick out a little bit more, because now it’s gonna feel more real. I, I, I don’t know if that’s the right word.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. Definitely.

Tim Melanson: So, so I do think that there’s a, like some silver lining.

I know that people are a little bit worried about it. Um, but I think that we’re kind of like just in that transitionary period where people are using it, and maybe it’s taking some jobs away from certain people at this particular moment, but that’s gonna flip right back, ’cause people do want that real person to work with, and they, and they know that it’s gonna sound better.

Rachel Allen: Oh, absolutely. And I mean, something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, there’s a quote from Brian Eno, bringing it back to music, and he was talking about how as soon as we learned how to make, um, like non-lossy sound on CDs and like other higher, um, type, uh, music, everybody wanted the pops and crackles from the records, right?

And so as soon as you learn how to get rid of it, it becomes a premium. It becomes something that people will pay extra for, and that’s [00:27:00] what we’re seeing right now. Anything that’s like a higher ticket offer that’s selling, it’s got a human on it. It has someone being visibly inconvenienced to sell it to you, and it’s that exact same thing.

It’s the pops on the records that people want

Tim Melanson: Ah, that’s an excellent analogy. I am stealing that one. That’s a good one.

Rachel Allen: I’ll send you the quote.

Tim Melanson: Perfect. Awesome. So then let’s go back to how we find, how we find you and, and what that process is on, on how to get started with work with… And not even just for the book. Like, you’ve g- got another business, right? Or other

Rachel Allen: I do, yeah. I, I got a couple buckets actually. Um, I mean, I write books on my own, I help people write books. I do a sort of, uh, super group offer with a bra- a branding specialist, um, where we build legacy businesses for people and we do the branding there. Um, and then I write everything at Bolt. So basically, if it’s words that make money, I do it.

Um, the easiest way is just to check me out at boltfromthebluecopywriting.com, connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, or you can just email me like it’s the ancient times, and I will email you back with my very own fingers.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: Can actually contact you [00:28:00] personally, that’s amazing. Awesome. So now before we go, one more question. This might be the hardest one. Let’s get into music a little bit. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Rachel Allen: Ooh. Okay. Gosh, there’s so many. Um, what I’m gonna go with is the Drive-By Truckers. Um, so they’re Southern rock, a little outlaw, um, and I’ve listened to them since forever when they were coming through the Orange Peel in Asheville where I grew up. And I, what I love about them is that they talk about really hard, kind of awful things in a way that makes you feel good about yourself and, like, about your role and your, your power to be with them.

So I love them. I think they’re great

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow, that’s awesome. Okay. Have you s- you’ve seen them in concert then?

Rachel Allen: I have. Yeah, I’ve seen them a couple times.

Tim Melanson: And how was their show?

Rachel Allen: Amazing. It was incredible. I saw one of them, um, they were o- they, it was a psychobilly concert, so they had the Reverend Horton Heat open for them, and the dude’s like, the man’s bloodstream is 90% cocaine and, you know, [00:29:00] 10% caffeine. And so he’s, like, going to town on an electric guitar.

He’s standing up on the cello or standup bass while they’re playing it, and I was just like, "This is rad." And then the Drive-By Truckers came out, and it was even better. It was so good.

Tim Melanson: Oh, that’s awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rachel, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Rachel Allen: Yeah, it’s been awesome. Thanks for having me

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to the owner of Level Up Influence, and what he does is he helps his clients to make more money from the clients they already have, which is really cool. I like, I like that. That’s really cool.

So we’re rocking out today with Bradley Rausch. Hey, Bradley, you ready to rock?

Bradley Rausch: I am ready, Tim. Let’s do it. I appreciate you having me on

Tim Melanson: Awesome. We always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Bradley Rausch: Really fortunate to say, you know, I’ve had a lot of mentors and, and people giving opportunities that they absolutely did not, uh, did not need to give me. And part of my, kind of my origin story or reason why I do what I do now, um, is very early on in my career, I was 19 when I first started, uh, in the, like, online high ticket, you know, coaching, consulting, SaaS, all of this stuff, uh, world.

And I worked my way up to what was at the time the top train- sales training and coaching organization, um, [00:01:00] uh, doing, doing about nine figures a year as a, as a closer. And that opportunity, uh, which we can get into it if you’d like, that opportunity, while not aligned with who I am, really sparked, um, my passion for now what I do, um, in terms of client success and showing up for clients and helping businesses be more, more profitable, uh, as you say.

And, um, uh, but that, that opportunity really, really at such a, such a young age, uh, to be around those people and just get in those rooms, that was, that was insane. Uh, it was huge for, for, for my, for my… Kind of set me on a kind of trajectory, so to say. So

Tim Melanson: Yeah, isn’t that amazing, right? And when you’re 19, when you’re younger, like it’s, it’s, it’s funny ’cause you, you get around these really successful people and you can just absorb so much from them at that time. And, and they tend to be very, very like excited about sharing their knowledge with someone who’s so young as well, so it’s really lucky for y- that you were able to do that.

Um, I do find that, you know, as, as you get older, you know, people tend to not necessarily [00:02:00] take as good advice, like good advice from people around them. You know, you’re not as, uh, I, I guess, I guess open to taking advice. So, you know, with you being so young, like do you… Like are all your clients young as well, or do you coach people who are older than you are?

Like how does that work?

Bradley Rausch: Uh, all of my clients are actually older than me, yes. So, um, so yeah, so I, I work with coaching, consulting, and SaaS, uh, founder-led brands, founder-led companies on, just, just as you said, on, um, uh, making every client worth more for… That they are making every client that they already have worth more. And, um, I got into that after, uh, that opportunity that I just mentioned that I had.

I, I actually ended up walking away from it, which at the time was very controversial ’cause that company was the company you got fired from, uh, that you walked away from. And I went, I, I went back to some of the companies I had, I had been with before and I said, "Hey, let me try my hand at your client success."

Just long story short, the large company was not a good fit for me morally, ethically, [00:03:00] ’cause clients were treated really poorly, and that’s what sparked really my passion for, for client success, um, and for, for this work. And so, um, from there then, uh, I, I built up, you know, just repertoire of clients, et cetera.

I was, um, for about four years period of time, I was director of co- director of client success for a B2B, um, eight-figure brand, working from home and then building my… All of it working from home, and then building my consulting company on the side. And then for the last year I have solely worked on doing the consulting company, so

Tim Melanson: Amazing. That’s a great story. So now, not everything goes as planned though, right? There are some mistakes that you make along the way, and I do like to talk about those unfortunately because,

Bradley Rausch: No, I love it. I love

Tim Melanson: most part, that’s what pe- holds people back is, is being worried about making a mistake. So y- have you got any big ones?

Any ones that people would kind of think, "Oh, I’m not doing that. I don’t, I don’t want… I’m scared to make that mistake"?

Bradley Rausch: Definitely. Uh, more, more than I would probably consciously remember, ’cause I [00:04:00] probably blotted them out of my memory now. Um, the, the one that always, the, the one that, the one that stands out, biggest one, um, is I actually was offered, and again, this was a very young age. I’m 27 now, I was maybe 23 or 22. Um, I was offered a very, very prestigious position as a director of client success for another company, um, that was more money than I had ever made.

It all f- you know, working from home, working remote, all of that. It was d- an incredible opportunity. It was before I knew I really wanted to be on my own doing my own thing, and I was like, "Hey, I wanna work within somebody else’s company." And there’s nothing wrong either way, but it’s just not for me. Uh, but I saw this opportunity, applied for it, went for it.

The founder and I got on really, really, really well. Worked together for about a week, and then I was fired after about a week. And when I s- the reason I bring this up, as far as a quote unquote "mistake," is because the caliber of what they needed, uh, was not the caliber of the skill that I had at that time.

Um, have it now, I would say yes, [00:05:00] but at that time, no. And, uh, me going into it, I knew it was something that was well over m- I, I, I had an awareness that it was something that was well over my head. Um, but it just seemed like such a good fit that I was just like, "You know what? Yes." And it was, it was something that I…

Th- the- the mis- the quote unquote "mistake" in it for me was, um, not looking at how it would play out long term. Looking at, looking at a very short-term decision about something that could financially be great, but long term, how I would be able to not only level up my skills, but then, you know, contribute and m-make reciprocity, make sure that I could contribute to them, et cetera.

And so it just wasn’t a necessarily… It was, it was one of those things, one of those, uh, you know, lines that people say all the time. It was like, "Oh, if you see a really big opportunity, take it, and then figure out how to do it later." I, because of that and because of many other things, of course, now in my life that I do around client success, my take on that is not necessarily the [00:06:00] opposite, but it, it’s just that make sure you’re well prepared for opportunities that come your way.

So that would be my, that would be my, my remote work, work from home, uh,

Tim Melanson: Big mistake, yeah. Well, and, and it is interesting that you say that because that does come up quite often, is that people will say, "Say yes, and then figure it out afterwards." And I, I guess, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things where, uh, for the most part, that probably is good advice, I would say. And I think it’s probably because most people underestimate what they can do, right?

And so saying yes, you know, and, and then figuring it out probably is something that they’ll be able to figure out. But then on the other hand, you know, if you’re the type of person that overestimates what you can do, then you might end up in a tough situation, right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it’s that, a little bit of that entrepreneur delusion there coming in.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Now, so I’m [00:07:00] just got curio- uh,

curious though, like how, like how did the fallout go? Like how did you recover? Like what, what, what happened after that?

Bradley Rausch: Uh, it was a… I mean, it, it’s, it’s dumb. It was a, it was a hit to my, my self-esteem, my confidence, my confidence in, in what I was doing and how I did it, like professionally, personally, everything. Uh, I was really fortunate that, you know, I had a couple of… Had, still had a couple of clients on the side. My, my through line with everything I’ve done over the last six, seven years is I’ve always had my own thing.

It’s just for the last year or so, this has been the first time where the, my own thing is the only thing I’ve had. Um, so fortunately I had that, and I was able to find then another full-time role that was a much better fit for me. It was actually still director of customer success. It was for, uh, an eight-figure B2B consulting company, much more suited to both my skill set and then also what I could…

My skill set and what I could provide to what the company needed, and also what the company could teach me in terms of, you know, [00:08:00] my own growth. Um, and I found that about two months later or so, which is a considerably, for the job market, a very quick turnaround time. Uh, so, so yeah, so I was fortunately able to pivot pretty quickly, but I mean, I, I won’t lie, it, it was probably one of, if not the biggest, uh, professional blunder of my, of my career thus far, so.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. It’d, it’d be so tough on the, on the ego, right? ‘Cause you think you could do anything, and then all of a sudden you realize you can’t, right?

Bradley Rausch: But, you know, it’s, it’s a good, it, it’s a good, it’s a good humbling thing though, I will say, because when you think you can do it, when you, when you think you can do anything, you think you’re invincible, something will eventually come along and knock you down a peg or two. It’s just a question of how far down it knocks you.

And I feel fortunate that I had that experience early, and I had that experience while I, I would say really needed it, ’cause I did feel quite invincible at the time. Um, and so it, it, it also, again, really indoctrinated in me that thing of make sure that you’re prepared for [00:09:00] the opportunities that, that come your way, and this is, this is something which I, I think we’ll probably get into.

But in terms of like advice, early-stage entrepreneurs, people wanting to start something from home, wanting the inspiration to work from home, uh, you know, start their own… Usually that takes the form of starting your own business, things like that. I’ve spent a lot of my career working with companies that helped early-stage entrepreneurs, so super, super common conversation I have.

Um, but one of the biggest things I, I will often tell people is folks will often worry about, "Oh, how can I be confident doing my own thing? How can I be, um, um, how, how can I know that some- that, that I will, you know, find the income to then work from home? How can I… Essentially, how can I be sure that this is the right thing that I’m doing?"

And my answer is usually always something along the lines of, "Instead of worrying about the confidence in doing it, instead of worrying about what’s going to happen, work on building the skills to have the competence that it will happen. Work on building the skills that will prepare, that you will be prepared for something whenever something does end up happening, and then lay the bricks that you need to then eventually build the [00:10:00] house for, to ha- to have it happen."

Instead of, instead of trying to, you know, connect those dots so quickly, there’s that middle one that says you need to be… You need to build, you need to build the capacity to have the thing versus ins- instead of just trying to have the thing right away. Um, and I just, I think looking at it that way gives you, um, it gives you more freedom and more permission to kind of mess up along the way, uh, and to have just a less linear path to it, ’cause it’s, it’s never linear.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and isn’t that funny that the best advice really is to make the mistakes quicker, right?

Bradley Rausch: Yeah, abso- no, absolutely. Absolutely. No,

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Bradley Rausch: no, no. I love asking people, it’s like, "How can you fa- how can you- how many ways can you fail at that?" And then just get them over with, and then, and then you go from there

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and you’re just more, uh, resilient. The younger you are, the more resilient. So right now is the best time, do- no matter how old you are, right? ‘Cause later it’s gonna be harder, right?

Bradley Rausch: Exactly. I love, I love GaryV- do you know anything

Tim Melanson: Gary Vee, yeah

Bradley Rausch: yeah, yeah. [00:11:00] One of his, I mean, I love one of his things. He’s like, talks to people and they’re like, they’re like, "I’m 50, I’m 60, I’m 70." Grant it a grain of salt, I’m 27, I don’t know what it’s like to be 50, 60, 70 yet. But, uh, this, you know, 60-year-old woman comes up to him and he’s, and she’s like, "Oh, I feel like my career’s behind me."

He’s like, "How old are you?" She’s like, "I’m 60." He’s like, "Well, you d- you got 20 years left to crank this out. What are you talking about? Da, da, da, da, da. You know how much I could do in 20 years? Please." Like, I love him. He’s great

Tim Melanson: Yeah, he is great. And it’s true. I mean, any time is a good time, right, for all that. Now, uh, that does lead pretty good into the next, uh, into the practice side though. So like what are some of those skills that you’re gonna need?

Bradley Rausch: I mean, how long have we got? No. Um, m- most important try, I’ll try and narrow it down to I think most important three for me that have helped me the most. Um, number one is something that actually I’ve really only just kind of wrapped my head around, quite honestly, in the last maybe six to 12 months, [00:12:00] um, which is the ability to know what to say no to.

Um, there’s this thing that, uh, Alex Hormozi talks about a lot, which is the, the idea from The Matrix, which, you know, the red pill, blue pill, but, like, the red pill, you know, the woman in the red dress essentially gets hotter for the bigger the thing you have to say no to, which is kind of the premise. So the bigger an opportunity You have or, or the more important an opportunity is to you, the prettier that the woman in the red dress, AKA these other things that will shy away your attention, the prettier that thing will get, the more attractive that thing will get.

Um, and it’s actually really, really interesting how this has played out for… I mean, I’ll just give you really s- quick snippet is, like, um, this year, as I was kinda telling you before we hit record, my goal with my business has really been to, quote-unquote, "step out of my comfort zone" or just my, my regular routine, uh, and do a lot of podcasting, do, um…

I’ve actually also started ads, things like that. Um, have ads literally launching this week. Found an amazing ads guy, so I’m [00:13:00] really excited about all that. But literally over the last month, as all of this stuff is coming together, I’m finally doing my own thing. I’m fin- Like, it’s successful, et cetera.

Over the last month, okay, I’ve had thr- from clients, I’ve had three… two offers and one conversation, um, around me coming to work in their business on other parts of their business, more in a, you know, part-time/full-time capacity. Like, it’s, it’s crazy how, again, the bigger the opportunity, the more you invest in it.

The more you invest in a thing, you have to know how to say no. You have to learn how to let the woman in the red dress go, and y- it just keeps getting sexier and sexier. So I would say a skill that I’ve really worked on lately, um, that’s come in, come in much handy is you have to, you have to know what to say no to.

And I think that applies to opportunities, but it also applies to just simple things like your attention span, your focus, um, knowing yourself enough. This would be the second thing, knowing yourself enough to know how to structure your day so that it’s most, uh, m- it’s most useful to you, that you get the most [00:14:00] done.

There’s nobody else out there like you, so you need to figure out what kind of thing works for you. For me personally, I am a, I am a total, uh, call it good or bad, it is what it is. It’s a double-edged sword, but I’m slightly extremist when it comes to, like, my calendar. I am either working and I am on or, like, I am off and if you contact me, I will bite your head off.

Like, I… It is, it is like I… my calendar blocked, and when it is not blocked for work, I’m out. Um, so know yourself enough to know when your time is best used and how it’s best used. Um, and the third thing, let’s see. I tell you what, the third thing I would say that I think is really, uh, probably, probably more common advice than not, but I’ll g- give it a nuanced way, is do not underestimate the use cases of AI.

But very specifically or nuanced is don’t underestimate the use case as to use it as a thinking partner. A lot of people will use it as just essentially an executioner. "Do this, do that. Don’t do this. What do you think about this?" Blah, blah, blah, whatever. [00:15:00] I, what I find is that if you actually encourage and train your AI Platforms that you use, this works for any of them, Claude, GPT, Perplexity, whatever.

Uh, you train it and you ask it consistently to think with you instead of doing all the thinking in the background. You create a really good, I call it like a sparring partner. Everything that I put into… I use Claude. Everything that I put into Claude, I’m always, I’m always telling it, it does it most of the time now ’cause I’ve reminded it so much, but I tell it, "No, I want you to think out loud.

Don’t, don’t keep your thinking in the background." Like, all the things that it goes through is like, "Okay, what about this? No, I don’t wanna do this because of this," da, da, da, da, da. And then it spits out an answer. I wanna see all of that. Um, and I think that that really o- has helped me to open up, um, very…

It’s, it’s, it’s helped me to operationalize my own decision-making a lot more ef- a lot, a lot quicker. It’s helped me to be a lot more efficient with how I make decisions. Um, so yeah, so those would be my top three.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, reminds me of my math teacher. Show your work.

Bradley Rausch: Yes. Yes, there it is. Exactly, yes.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. [00:16:00] That’s awesome. Well, and, and, uh, yeah, I, I agree. I, I love using it as a, a thinking partner, and I mean, there’s so many people that are, like, that are upset about AI and, you know, worried about it and all that stuff, and, and, uh, and thinking that it’s gonna take creativity away or take thinking away.

But I, I, I think that that’s a good point. It depends on how you’re using it. If you’re using it to help you think and to help you be creative, well then, how can it really take it away? It’s gonna make it a little bit more, uh, efficient, I think. It’s gonna make us m- us more efficient in, in doing the things we need to do, right?

Bradley Rausch: 100%. I look at it like the, uh… So my, my mom’s a high school, uh, high school teacher, and, um, every, I, I’m, I’m sure, I’m sure you were like this. I know I was like this. We always used to ask when we were younger, we always used to ask, "What’s the point of learning algebra? What’s the point of learning these really random things, crap about science and all this stuff," whatever, blah, blah, blah.

The larger scale point of all of that is not, you know, to know those facts. It’s not to know [00:17:00] what, you know, the 4x squared plus or minus AB, whatever, blah, blah, blah. It’s not to know all of that. It’s to train our brains to be able to comprehend at that level when, when it’s needed, um, in tho- in those different ways, those different modalities.

And so I think of kind of interacting with AI in the same way, which is that you, you can use it not to think for you, but to think with you and to empower you to think at a higher level. Um, and it just, it just, it, it, it just, it just expands, I think, how much you can, you can achieve conceptually, and then of course you can then take it and act on it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And teachers used to say, "You’re not gonna have a calculator in your pocket."

Bradley Rausch: Right. Right

Tim Melanson: Yeah, we do. Well, i- it’s interesting that you s- when we talk about the, the skills that you need, and you know, the, the things that you mentioned are, like, all really, like, around personal stuff, like around personal thinking and all, which is, which is awesome.

I mean, that, that really is interesting that, you know, you’re not talking about, oh, well, you should go take a course [00:18:00] in this, or you should go take a course in that. You know, th- those are the things that, you know, you can learn anytime, I guess. It, it’s really around protecting your own personal, you know, space, I guess, uh, brain space.

And I think that’s kinda what does separate the people that get success from the people who don’t. They, I mean, everybody thinks that I need to go and, you know, e- even get business cards before they start their business. They’re thinking about the wrong things. They, you’re thinking about, you know, those things that are holding you back.

Well, I need to do that and then I’ll be able to get started on my business. But really, starting on your business is much different than that, right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. Uh, if it makes you feel any better, I don’t even have business cards, and I’ve been doing this a while, so now, so, um, but, but no, 100, 100%. Um, the… I, I, I find that it’s like two levels. One, the first kind of level to it is, is like, yes, order operations, procrastination, et cetera, and, and thinking you need to have all this technical stuff done before you get [00:19:00] to, to actually interact with people.

But the second layer to it is, m- I find folks will often use it as a reason not to. So for instance, it’s like, "Oh, I can’t do this thing. I don’t know how to do this thing. Well, I guess that means I shouldn’t do this other thing over here," or, "I shouldn’t start this because I haven’t done this first thing yet," or, or whatever.

They’ll use it as kind of a, as kind of a crux and then make a story around that. Um, and I spent a lot of my life in a very victim mentality ’cause insanely, long story short, uh, which I’m super open about, is grew up having panic attacks left, right, and sideways every 10 seconds and, uh, separated myself from my family and all of this stuff, and like was definitely not…

I, I was very, very book smart, very, very school smart, uh, excelled in school. At the beginning, I sucked at being an entrepreneur. I was not consistent. I gave up after two seconds. I thought the world was my oyster. I th- I just, just had an ego the size of Guam. Like, it was just, it was n- that was not in the cards for me to be an entrepreneur.

Um, so I very much so had to tr- kind of [00:20:00] reverse engineer that. Um, and so all that’s, all of that to be said, um, is the consistency with which you can show up, I think, just changes everything, so

Tim Melanson: yeah. And luckily you had some good mentors along the

Bradley Rausch: I did. I did. I, I always, I always say people gave me, people opened doors for me, gave me opportunities when they, when they did not have to. There’s, if I ever get up on a stage and speak or get an award or something, there’s about six people who will be getting a shout-out, so

Tim Melanson: Right on. Well, okay, so let’s talk a little bit about, about getting the fans. Like, I, I mean, the world is so different now. It’s, and I mean, I guess you’ve been in it the whole time, but, but for someone, uh, you know, a little older, like, things have changed. You, you, you can’t necessarily just throw money at problems anymore to get, to get the fans, but the audience is everywhere.

Like, how do I, you know, cut through the noise, I guess, and, and get someone to pay attention to me?

Bradley Rausch: Yes. [00:21:00] So like I said, I spent a lot of time working with very early stage, very beginner entrepreneurs who wanna start like an initial thing online, um, wanna transition out of their job and start, et cetera, da, da, da, da, da. So several, several different, different things here. Um, boiling them down to, I would say the top…

We’ll go top three again. Um, things to think about, perspectives, things to do, et cetera. Uh, number one is the speed at which you can make mistakes, as we were kind of saying earlier, is, is paramount, and also being okay with making those mistakes. Um, the best learning I’ve ever come across is when my own money’s been on the table, when I’ve put in the time, the effort, and something didn’t work.

Uh, the, the phrase, "Oh, you learn as much from your mistakes," like that’s, that’s not BS. That’s genuine, really. We’ll learn more from that than a course, than anything like that. Kind of on the same point, as a subpoint to that, uh, again, do not underestimate the use of AI. You do not need a course. You do not need a degree.

You do not need a whatever. You need a pro subscription to ChatGPT for 20 bucks a month, a good cup of coffee, and a [00:22:00] Wi-Fi connection, and you are good to go for 99.9% of things that you wanna do. Um, I, I genuinely believe that. Um- So don’t underestimate the, the… All, all that to be said is the repetition that you put in and the reps at, especially at the beginning, is way more important than the quality of the reps that you put in.

Once you start getting traction, then the quality becomes, becomes an issue, uh, and something to focus on. But at the beginning it is very much so throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks, and being okay with 99% of things not sticking. Um, the second thing I would say, and again, I’m taking this from…

I’m a very big Hormozi fan. I’m taking this from Hormozi, uh, kinda sorta same as the first point, uh, which is, or along the same lines. Um, he has this thing called this rule of 100, which I just love, and it, I think it really just dials, dials this in. Uh, which is he says, trying to remember now, uh, he says for people trying to get their first customer, for people trying to build out their first thing, they have an offer, they have an idea, they have a whatever, and they’re ready, essentially they’re ready to sell [00:23:00] whatever it is.

Uh, he says there’s this rule of 100. So for 100 days you either spend $100 a day in ad spend if you’ve got 10 grand. So if you’ve got 10 grand, spend $100 a day in ad spend. Reach out to 100 people a day using free social media. Um, or, uh, right. Oh, uh, um, spend 100 minutes a day creating content on social media, and obviously if you can do more than one of those things at a time, then great.

Um, but he says it’s this rule of 100 where if you do any one of those three for 100 days, he guarantees that you will get a client. And he says, "I’ve never found anybody who did that and didn’t get a client or didn’t sell a thing or whatever." So again, it just really goes to, to nail in the repetition is way more important.

The qu- the quantity is way more important than the quality. Um, the third thing that I would say is don’t take yourself too seriously, and I, I say that lightheartedly and I s- I say that, I, I say that as somebody who used to take myself very seriously in the wrong ways. I take myself [00:24:00] very seriously now. I feel, what I would feel like are, quote unquote, "the more right ways" in terms of, you know, my personal development.

Like I journal every day. Like I, I invest a lot into myself, but in terms of, in terms of, you know, the interactions with others in kind of a business sense or, or selling sense, things like that, um, this kinda goes back to what you were, you were saying, your point of like the order of operations and figuring out what’s first and, and all that stuff.

Um, you don’t need a website. You don’t need a big, robust Instagram account. You don’t need, um, your, your perfect, m- uh, v- uh, vision and like marketing and all this, you know, the brand and all of this stuff, whatever, da, da, da. Like the amount of people that I have talked to that are like, "Well, my website isn’t up yet, so I can’t start like talking to people."

I’m like, "You don’t have a three-sentence explanation for what you do and the value you provide?" And they’re like, "Well, yeah, I do." And I’m like, "Okay, great, you can start talking to people about it." And what you’re gonna learn is that through talking to people you will actually learn more because you will, you will interact with them and they’ll echo things back, et cetera, et cetera.

Um, so at, [00:25:00] at the end of the day, again, y- you need- It sound, it sounds, it sounds very much overly simplistic, but I think there’s, if you’re anything like me, like I was, there’s a lot of people who need to hear it. Um, good Wi-Fi connection, a cup of coffee, and ChatGPT, and you would be amazed at how far you can get

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it’s funny, I, I… Well, a big part of my business is building websites, and one of the first questions I ask people is, "Why do you need a website?" Right? Because really, what people tend to do is they tend to, uh, not really have the business figured out yet. And, and how do they not have it figured out yet?

They haven’t gone out there and done it yet. Like, you’re better off to get some clients, figure out what you do, figure out who you serve. All those things are gonna be important to build your website, ’cause if you’re just guessing and then you’re thinking, "Oh, this is definitely gonna work," you’re gonna spend a bunch of money on something that might not even work and will be off-brand from what you’re trying to accomplish.

So you’re better off, like you said, to just get out [00:26:00] there and do it. Pick up a couple clients, figure out what they want, and now you can, you know, if you wanna up-level things, you can start to build, you know, some of those tools around it, right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m sure you’ve also had your share of people who come to you and they’re like, "Well, I don’t know what I wanna do, but I’m hoping you can help me build… I’m hoping you can build me a website and it’ll help me figure it out." And I’m like, "Oh." We’re like, "Okay, well, hmm, I don’t know about that."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, and, and even just, you know, my m- website’s gonna sell things for me. Well, will it though? I, I

Bradley Rausch: Will it though? Yeah, I know, exactly. Exactly.

Tim Melanson: websites is a supporting tool, right?

Bradley Rausch: Yes.

Tim Melanson: you use to help you do the work, right? You know? And, and I mean, uh, yeah, that, that’s the thing, right? I mean, it’s, it’s just one of those things that people will s- use as the, the block to get out there and do things in the first place, and

Bradley Rausch: And if it’s not the website, it’s something else. So 100%.

Tim Melanson: Uh, but I like what you said about what Hormoni- Hormozi said, which is, I mean, yes, you can throw money at something, for sure. But, you know, the other [00:27:00] two things I think you mentioned are more focused on your time, on actually get out, getting out there and doing the work. And I think that that’s what’s most, um, exciting about this time that we’re in right now is that never has there been a time when really just hard work is what you need to do.

Like y- the tools are fairly inexpensive. I mean, social media’s free. I mean, come on, like

Bradley Rausch: Well, the, the thing with AI and the, you know, social media as it is and stuff like that, I feel like over the last, um… I, I’m 27, but I consider myself an old soul, so we’ll go with that. Um, but I feel like over the last 20 years, and I know I certainly fell into this when I first started, um, building a business, is the tools and the accessibility and the social media and the f- you know, the free ChatGPT subscription and the AI and everything, it gives the illusion that it’s easy and quick.

It gives the illusion… Like, I think, I think 40 years ago it was still hard, but [00:28:00] everybody was okay with it being hard because there was no other way. But now it’s the illusion of it being easy that gets people into this mindset trap of thinking, "Oh, well, it’s… This is all so accessible," and, "Oh, I see people, this, this person makes one post on Instagram and gets 10,000 likes and makes $1,000 in sales for this thing.

You know, it, it’s just that easy for me, too. Okay, let’s do it." And, and I, I, I don’t, and I don’t mean to belittle, I don’t mean to make fun, but that’s really the conversation going on in a lot of people’s heads. Again, for me it certainly was. And, um, it, I think it just feeds this delusion that it, it, it is that accessible and it’s that easy.

And I think it, to your point, um, the hard work hasn’t, the, the requirement of hard work has not gone away, it’s not changed, but I think the, the level at which you have to play it has changed

Tim Melanson: Yep. Uh, and there’s als- there’s a lot of fake stuff out there too. There’s a lot of scams. There’s a lot of people saying that, "Oh, you know, I, I can help you do this and it’s gonna take no [00:29:00] time at all." Oh, come on. Like, like you say, it, there’s, the hard work aspect of it has always been there. I just think that the accessibility of it is, has changed now.

It’s not necessarily that you need to be part of the, you know, proper country club in order to get the proper connections to get the big banners and billboards in order to build your business. Now it’s a matter of you, you have the tools right there, but you still gotta do the hard work, right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. Absolutely. Being part of the country club does not hurt though, I will say. No, I’m just kidding.

Tim Melanson: Oh, yes, the country club can still help, absolutely. And, and you do hear that quite often from, you know, some of the guests on the show is, is that’s a great way to get the word out there too, is to be part of the clubs where your clients are, right?

Bradley Rausch: my g- oh my God, absolutely. One of my clients is a, uh, she’s a, actually she’s an oil and gas investor. Uh, it’s a very long story short, but the, the, the, the easiest way to explain it is her father [00:30:00] owned an oil and gas company that consulted with a lot of these big guys, ExxonMobil, et cetera, and she inherited the company when he died.

She transitioned it into a, uh, investment company where private investment, so like you and I, could go and invest with her into these large oil and gas deals, which is something that is n- honest- never been done before, and it’s just insane what she has been able to accomplish. Uh, she literally just started an email list, like, last year.

She’s raised, I mean, over the course of her career, 20 years, I mean, she’s raised hundreds of millions of dollars off of attending networking events, uh, going and having in-person coffees, in-person meetings, uh, flying here, there, the other place for stuff. I mean, it just w- didn’t go digital literally until we started working together, and I was like, "Do you have an email list?"

She’s like, you know, raising… You know, coming off of raising, like, $300 million. "Do you have an email list?" "No." "Do you have any social media?" "No." "Do you have an, do you have, do you have a website?" [00:31:00] "Barely." I’m like, "Okay, let’s do this." But it just, it’s incredible, honestly, and I think you’ve heard everybody say this, so I’m not gonna be, I’m, I’m not gonna toot this horn anymore, but, um, after COVID, everybody wants in-person stuff again

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yep, they do. Uh, now mind you, COVID has definitely helped to improve the tools of remote work and all that stuff too, which is fantastic. But I, I, I think, I, I think there’s gonna be… It’s, it’s, it’s interesting how, you know, the world sort of works, is that things kind of go around in circles. It’s like, you know, you, you have all these people going into email and texting and all that stuff, and now, uh, y- with chat ch- with chat stuff and bots and all that, I think that we’re gonna get back to the point where people are gonna really put a premium on, "I actually get to talk to a real person now?"

Right?

Bradley Rausch: Yes

Tim Melanson: "And I get to talk to them in person? Wow, that’s, that’s next level now," right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. Absolutely

Tim Melanson: you know? And, uh, and that’s, I think that’s just exciting, you know? And, and, and we keep [00:32:00] coming back to it. If you’re the type of person that’s a, a go-getter, that has a lot of motivation, I mean, the corporate environment is probably not the best place for you.

I mean, you could start your own business, and you’ll probably get, uh, further if you are doing it on your own, because it really is your baby now, right?

Bradley Rausch: Absolutely. You, you, you put, uh, more of your, I, you put more of your discretionary effort into it. Um, I think a lot about, and, and actually I’ll add this to the list we were talking about a minute ago of, uh, most important things to kinda start your, your business or, uh, get that going. Um, think about your discretionary effort.

I love to think about this topic both personally and professionally. Uh, where does your discretionary effort naturally go? And what discretionary effort means is the time, the energy, the brain space, the thought, et cetera, that you put into something, um, once all of the things in your life that need taking care of are taken care of.

So obviously your food, your shelter, your, your main source of income maybe, whatever. [00:33:00] Um, once those things are done and handled for the day, you’ve got, you know, your evening left or you’ve got a weekend, where does your extra time go? Or, you know, kids are taken care of, da, da, da, da, da. I don’t have kids, so that’s not something that comes to mind, but your kids, your family’s taken care of.

Um, where does your extra time go? Where does that naturally gravitate toward? And can you find a way to monetize that? And I think if you can, the chances that you will be able to stick with it long enough to actually start seeing real returns on it is much higher than going and watching a random video on what are the 20 best side hustle ideas in 2026, and then picking one at random from that list.

Please don’t do that. Take, take the afternoon of contemplation that it will take to reflect and look at where does your discretionary effort naturally go, and see if you can find something within that realm to focus on.

Tim Melanson: And you probably will find something too. And, and, and I mean, it’s one of those things where you, uh, I think people discount a lot of the, i- in their gift zone, I think, a little bit, thinking that, oh, well, I’m so good at it, and it comes so natural to me that who would wanna pay me for it? But I mean, the [00:34:00] reality is that we’re all d- very, very different, and there is somebody who really hates what you love to do, right?

You know? And that’s, that’s your gold mine right there, right? It’s, it’s something that you love to do, and people are gonna pay you for it? Come on. Like, I think we’re just brainwashed into thinking that work is hard and work sucks. And so we think that it’s supposed to be like that. But it could be fun.

It, I mean, it- it’s still work, still hustling, but it could be something that actually makes you feel good about yourself, right?

Bradley Rausch: 100%. 100%. And the thing is with social media right now, and obviously the, the entertainment value in it, even if the path to, quote-unquote, "selling" whatever you’re passionate about, you know, a course, a service, a product, a, a subscription, whatever, uh, even if that path isn’t super clear yet or you’re like, "I don’t know, I’m, like, super interested in this really random, very specific thing," like I don’t know, like I’m, I- I’m interested in I, I draw penguins.

Like, I’d sit there [00:35:00] all day and I could just draw penguins all day. Okay, great. I would bet your ass that there is a world in which you could go and make a, so- an Instagram account completely dedicated to, "Here’s how I draw a penguin. Here’s what I think about when I’m drawing a penguin. Here’s make, how I make sure that the penguin actually looks symmetrical," and this and that, and da da da da da.

And, "Oh, by the way, here’s my 99, my 9.99 course on how to draw a penguin," and, "Oh, here’s my time lapse video of me beginning to end drawing a penguin, and, and, and here’s the color palettes that I use for these different kinds of penguin," blah blah blah blah. Even if nobody gives a damn about you draw- you drawing penguins, the entertainment value and your ability to present it as something that’s entertaining and, and, you know, comical and things will get you so much further, will mon- monetize you so much further than trying to sit there and being like, "How can I sell the ability to draw a penguin?

I don’t understand that." Like, just start entertaining people around whatever it is, and the rest will come

Tim Melanson: Yeah. At, at the very least, I mean, it could even serve as leads for your other business where you actually do make m- Like, it, it’s, it’s funny how that works. I mean, you might [00:36:00] not even necessarily primarily make money from drawing the penguins, right? But people are following you and they’re thinking, "Ah, this person’s kinda cool.

What do they do?"

Bradley Rausch: exactly. No, I love how they make content, or I love how, you know… There’s tons of people, tons of people, I’m sure B- I’m sure you too. There’s tons of people that I follow that I’m like, I don’t even remember why I follow them or what, what, like, what they do, or I’m not even following them for the thing that they’re talking about.

I just like how they communicate, or I like that they, I don’t know, they had a funny video that made me laugh or something. Like, it doesn’t, it, it’s all these auxiliary things that are gonna add up

Tim Melanson: Totally agree. So let’s talk about your solo. What’s exciting in your business right now, Bradley?

Bradley Rausch: In my business right now, um, as I said, I, I think we, we- before we started recording, um, I got out of my… Pushing myself to get out of my, uh, get out of my own way a bit. Um, my business very fortunately is, is very referral-driven, uh, for the last, last couple of years. I’m super thankful for, you know, clients and engagement and time I get to [00:37:00] spend with them and everything.

Uh, but I’ve done a lot of podcasts this year, pushing myself to do that. Um, also I literally have ads launching this week, um, which is really exciting. And most exciting, exciting thing I would say in, in my business is this is something that I’m, uh, the, the consulting, um… Let me, let me put it this way The industry of online sales and coaching, and I’m sure everybody’s seen, regardless of whether you’re familiar with this industry or not, you’ve seen people talking about online.

It’s like, "Oh, you can, you know, lose 20 pounds in, in two months if you follow my X, Y, Z plan, and here it, here it is for $3,000 with a group coaching program." Or, you know, if you’re in any sort of a, a business capacity or you wanna find a career or whatever, it’s always, you know, "Here’s a, here’s a, here’s a coaching program.

Here’s a, here’s a consulting thing. Here’s a, um, here’s a software that’s gonna help you land these jobs, things, whatever, for $99 a month," whatever. So these three, these three kind of areas that are really all I feel like blend into one, so coaching, consulting, [00:38:00] and SaaS, software as a service. This industry as a whole, this online business industry, um, I feel, and this is a very bold claim, um, but I feel it is really in need of a, of a refresh in terms of how they, how we deliver to clients and how we, um, how we curate the client experience to make sure the clients are staying with us longer and, uh, that the lifetime value of a client is more than just what they’re paying you up front, but is also comprised of the referrals they send you, the testimonials they give you, how they ascend into a back-end offer, and how they upsell to whatever else.

Um, uh, for the last… My, my kind of main line of, of everything I do is for the last 10, for the last decade, we’ve perfected how to sell. I mean, everybody’s seen on social media the sales, the closers, you know, the Shelby Saps of the world. We’ve perfected within an inch of its life how to sell any of these things.

But no one’s taken the time to perfect or try to, how to deliver these things at scale, how to deliver on the promises we [00:39:00] made to our customers. And that is, that’s what my brand is around. It’s what my IP is focused on, is really creating nuance and clarity and frameworks and structure to delivering or rather over-delivering to the promises we make our clients, um, as we, as we scale a business, whether there’s just a handful of clients or a- a customer.

Really, really, really thankful and, again, super honored to say, not a throwaway thing, I’ve, I’ve got a client who’s doing, raising, um, $100 million right now. So it’s like i- regardless if you’re doing, you’re selling one thing, an e-commerce product for 29 bucks, or you’re, you’re raising money to go invest in a oil well that Exxon’s drilling, whatever it is, uh, the importance of, um, working with your customers to make sure that they can become an asset for you instead of a liability is really, really, really key,

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Well, so it sounds like your customer base is pretty, pretty, pretty broad, but I’m wondering is there, like, somebody that would get the most out of working with you? Like, is there a specific [00:40:00] type of person that would w- that would benefit?

Bradley Rausch: Um, the company that I would say this is kind of mostly geared toward, um, as far as just the IP in its kinda natural state, of course, you know, we’ll, we’ll blend it and make changes on the fly and everything, um, I usually say is coaching consulting SaaS company doing between 500K to three million. And the reason I say that range, uh, is because whenever you get to running a, running a business that’s kind of going from that 500,000 a year mark to the million, two million mark, depending on the business, depending on the scale, depending on…

There’s a lot of factors. But somewhere in there, maybe closer to the five, closer to the three million, who knows? Somewhere in there, everyone has, and bleep this out, everyone has what I could just call an oh shit moment, where they’re like, "I can’t do this by myself." Like, you’ve gotten to the point where you were at without team, without, you know, a really strong layer of resources or [00:41:00] infrastructure, um, and it’s this, it’s this moment where they’re like, they hit the wall, they hit the fan.

It, it’s like, "I can’t do this by myself." And they have that really humbling moment where it’s like, "Okay, I either need to, I either need to start to build this like a scalable business, or I need to stay the level I’m at and optimize for that and not seek to grow any further, because I can’t do both." Um, and that is kind of the, the sort of humbling moment that I would really prefer people that I work with to have before we start doing some of the, before we start implementing a lot of what we implement together.

Um, because there’s a lot of, a lot of, um, change and optimization and effort that goes into the, that goes into the customer journey. But done right at scale, um, y- it stops people from needing to… The whole, the whole goal of it is to generate your revenue from the client relationships and from making your clients worth more, not from always finding new clients and needing to spend money on ads and running all this [00:42:00] front-end stuff and just churning and burning.

Tim Melanson: Hmm. So how do we find out more then?

Bradley Rausch: So my LinkedIn, uh, is where I do everything. LinkedIn’s my jam. Uh, I post daily content and I’m super active on there, so LinkedIn would- LinkedIn’s perfect spot. And then, um, my website is just my name, bradleyrausch.com

Tim Melanson: Awesome. All right, before we go, let’s talk music a little bit. So who is your favorite rock star or band?

Bradley Rausch: Oh, I got… So you just opened up a, you opened up a can of worms here. I don’t know if you, I don’t know if you know that. Um, and I didn’t even, I didn’t s- I meant to tell you this before we started recording, but I just slipped my mind. Um, I, my very first business, I taught piano lessons actually.

Um, yeah, classically trained pianist. Uh, I taught piano lessons from 13 up until COVID, um, so for seven years. I put myself through school, um, or well, the two years of school that I went to. Um, and I, yeah, I, I so just loved that period of time. It was just so amazing, so much fun. [00:43:00] Um, loved all the kiddos. I had up to, like, 46 students at one time.

It was insane. Um, so anyway, sorry, all that to be said, um, do have a musical background there. Uh, to answer your question, I have to be completely honest. Um, she’s not rock. She kinda does a little bit of everything, but my answer is Taylor Swift. I’m

Tim Melanson: Oh, wow

Bradley Rausch: very, very big Swiftie and, and I’m, I’m, I’m one of those people that if you get me in a car with, with, like, Taylor Swift on the thing, I will blast it and I will, I will sing it.

My best friend, I got my, as a gag gift for my best friend, but she, she uses it, um, ’cause I talk about Taylor Swift so much and with her personally. Uh, I got her this, this, like, candle thing, whatever, that says, "When this is lit…" Or, uh, or, or no, no, no. It’s something like… Oh, it’s um, "This smells like a Taylor-free conversation."

That’s what it is. And, um, whenever I come over, the damn candle’s lit and I have to abide by it, so so Taylor Swift, I would say

Tim Melanson: That is awesome. And my band, uh, [00:44:00] we, we, uh, I’ve got a girl in our, in our band that sings as well, and, and we’ve just added a couple of Taylor Swift songs. We added, uh, the Fate Ophelia and Opal Light, and they’re, uh, they’re such great songs. Yeah, those are cool

Bradley Rausch: know what you should… You know what I, I would encourage you is, um, are you, are you familiar with, like, her, her albums, discography at all, or not really?

Tim Melanson: I’m not, I’m, I wouldn’t say I’m a Swiftie, but I do know quite a bit of her, of her stuff, yeah

Bradley Rausch: okay. So what I love, just, and this is just a personal thing, so grain of salt, take it for what you will. What I, what I personally, some of my favorite, like, cover things from, uh, from Taylor’s work to see is when people really take a song and then, um, mold it, not, not just from a, um, not just from like a, a, a…

Good Lord, what is the word I’m trying… Not just from a melody, but from a harmony perspective with as far as the genre. So for instance, um, her albums Folklore and Evermore, those came out during COVID. Those are very somber. They’re very kind of poetic. They’re very artsy. They’re very lyrical. Um, I [00:45:00] love when people take those and they turn them into…

It doesn’t, it, it’s not even necessarily like a full 180 and does like a full pop thing or full rock

Tim Melanson: like a different genre.

Bradley Rausch: it’s just a different genre. It’s got a different, it’s got a different style. It’s got a different beat to it, and it has a totally different texture. Um, I, I, I love that. So I’m, I’m by no means I’m like, "Oh my God, don’t touch the original."

I’m, I’m not like that at all. Um, but no, I would encourage you, like look at like Folklore and Evermore, the two albums that came out during COVID, and see. It’s like if you have a certain style as like a band, see, see about like adapting those, which I think are the more, the most kind of siloed of her, of her discography.

Look at those and say, "Okay, how can I take this and really mold it into our own?" And I think doing that versus doing it with any of her other music, I think is the most kind of challenge and the most just kind of differentiating thing. So anyways, food

Tim Melanson: Cool. I’ll check out those albums. That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Bradley, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Bradley Rausch: I appreciate you, Tim. Thank

Tim Melanson: Oh, awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home [00:46:00] Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to the CEO of 10X Travel, and what he does is he teaches people to utilize credit card rewards to save money on travel. Very interested in hearing more about that. But first, hey, Travis Cormier, are you ready to rock?

Travis Cormier: Let’s rock

Tim Melanson: Awesome. So we always start off here on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Travis Cormier: Yeah, uh, when I joined the company, I was the second full-time employee, and we were really just like many small companies trying to figure out moving from being like a solopreneur to operating as an actual company, uh, and doing it while we were fortunately going through a lot of growth. Uh, we managed to make the Inc.

5000 list of fastest growing private companies in the US, and [00:01:00] like all of these are great things, but it can cause, uh, a bit of like chaos and turmoil ’cause so much is changing, um, at the same time. But what really made me so proud throughout that was not only did we make the list of fastest growing private companies, but we also made Inc.’s list of best places to work in the US.

Uh, yeah, so like we managed to not just scale the business, but also just make it a good place to, to work. Um, you know, we, we, we did that by looking at like, what do we do? What do we value? What do we try to deliver for our audience, and how can we also deliver that for people within our company? Um, you know, one of our core values is [00:02:00] to help connect dreams with reality.

We said, "Okay, how can we connect the dreams with reality for our employees?" Beyond just like a paycheck, right? Like beyond what you just expect people

to do. Um, so one of the things that we instituted is a, a program that I love called 1K Your Way. It’s $1,000 every year to just pursue an interest. The only way it gets rejected is if it’s related to work, you know.

If you’re like, "I wanna use it to go to this conference." No, no, no. You can go to the conference, but use it for something else. Um, we’ve had people take scuba diving lessons. We’ve had employees… Actually, last year a n- one of our employees in the Philippines bought a motorcycle ’cause he always just wanted to learn how to ride a motorcycle, so he used it to, to buy a small motorcycle and then do a tour, uh, around one of the islands.

So just like really [00:03:00] cool to get to, uh, do that for our people, and also it just helps us connect more, especially over such a, such a big distance. You know, I think in the world of remote work, some of that personal touch and personal relationships can be hard to sustain sometimes.

And so when you can bring an element of Personal relations that aren’t just work-related and encourage it just helps, like, build, build a more fun, fun place to work.

You know your peop- you know everybody more, you know what their interests are, and it just gives you something to talk about that’s not just the weather or something.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, that’s exactly it. Yeah, you get to know everybody’s interests through that program as well. Hey, can they learn guitar? Is anybody learning an instrument?

Travis Cormier: I, I actually plan to use mine this year. Um, I was a, a band nerd through, through [00:04:00] high school. I played French horn. But I always wanted to learn piano, so I’m actually planning to use mine this year to get a little keyboard and take, take some lessons

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Oh, and nowadays it’s so much easier with the, the, the keyboards that you can put your headphones on as well, and you can also learn right directly from YouTube or from various other online subscriptions. It’s… A- and now’s the time to learn an instrument.

Travis Cormier: Yeah, yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m really excited for it.

Um, I think, I think it will be fun. And actually we did have one employee, uh, buy a guitar and take guitar lessons, so

I, I won’t be the first

Tim Melanson: That’s brilliant. So now along with the good note, though, sometimes things don’t go as planned. You know, there are gonna be some mistakes being made along the journey, and I like to normalize those so people can see that you still, you can still live. You can still get through it. And I’m wondering, can you share with me something that we can learn from and maybe even how you recovered from it?

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Um, one of the biggest [00:05:00] unintentional mistakes that we made, right? I think this happens a lot in small business, is you run into things that when you started them was not a mistake, but it became an issue that you needed to, to solve later. Um, what happened to us was we… We’ve- we’ve really leaned into, like, building community and building a personal sense of connection with our, with our audience, which when we were small meant our founder…

Um, I’m not the founder, I’m the, the incoming… or I’m the new CEO. Um, but when we were, we were starting, our founder put his email everywhere, and he said, "Hey, you got questions? Just email me.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Travis Cormier: email me." And that’s a great way to build that personal relationship with people. But then as your audience in this [00:06:00] consu- in a consumer-facing business starts growing, and people are still emailing your, your, this one person, like, that burden can become so large.

And I was talking to him once, um, and he said, "I don’t know how to solve this, because I’m spending 20 to 30 hours a week responding to emails. It’s one of my favorite parts of, of my job. I love this connection with people." But this j- this isn’t scalable, right? And, and that’s, that’s the, the accidental mistake when you’re, when you’re small you might have a part of your business that’s n- doesn’t scale, but you don’t

Like, the time and world where that happens might just be a pipe dream then. But if it, if it, if it happens, it, it does. So how, how do you solve this really odd [00:07:00] conundrum of we’ve built a business based off of this sense of, uh, of connection with people, particularly with, with our, uh, with our CEO, and ma- maintain that sense of personal connection but make it scalable?

That was, like, where we, we, we got pretty, pretty stuck. Um, but what we, what we … How we approached it that ended up working for us was realizing that personal access and personalization aren’t the same thing,

that what he was providing was personal access and personalization. But people are reaching out because they trust the brand and the business, um, and he just happens to be the point of contact.

So h- so we just need to solve that personalization part, um, to [00:08:00] deliver that high-touch intimate experience that people come to expect from our brand. Um, so the way that, that we did this was, you know, we built out a, a small team of people to handle these questions that, that come in. Uh, but we actually empowered them with tools like Loom.

Um, if you’re not familiar with Loom, it’s kind of like a screen recording. You can record yourself. Um, and that’s how we, we answer a lot of them. Not all of them, but a lot of them we record a Loom and send it to them. So now instead of just getting a wall of text, you get someone talking to you over email. So it keeps that sense of personalization and connection with your audience in a scalable way, um, that’s not tied just to that, to that personal aspect

Tim Melanson: That’s, that’s a great idea. Yeah, and, uh, it, it would get so overwhelming to have to answer all that. Hey, nowadays you have chat though ,

Travis Cormier: Yeah. [00:09:00]

Tim Melanson: that might save some time

Travis Cormier: In my, in my, you know, it was def- this was definitely pre- pre-AI days. Um, and it, and honestly, it’s one of the places we, we love AI, but it’s one of those places where, uh, like that’s not worth it to us. It’s not worth it to lose that, that sense of personal connection. Um, you know, if people are reaching out personally, they’re doing it for, for a reason.

If they wanted the, the, the answer from chat, like, I don’t know, they could probably just go to ChatGPT and

ask it directly

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it kind of defeats the purpose, eh? If you’re doing, if you’re supposed to, like, actually read the email and respond to it. But I mean, oh my goodness, that would be so much time, you know, especially as that grows. And for the CEO, I mean, that’s, you, you know, that’s, that’s a full-time job right there.

And what, how can they run the business now at this point, right?

Travis Cormier: Right, exactly. Like, uh, in a small business, as regardless of what seat you’re in, you’ve got multiple hats. The CEO does, anyone in the [00:10:00] organization does.

And when one of those hats is taking up 75, 80% of your time, how are you leaving enough bandwidth to, to handle everything else?

Tim Melanson: Yeah. But no, with the, uh, the whole Loom idea, that’s a great idea. And, and I mean, a, a, a benefit that you could do there is that there’s probably some times when you get the same question over and over again. So if you record that one Loom, as long as you don’t use their personal name in it then

Travis Cormier: Yeah

Tim Melanson: you might be able to be in the situation where you just send the same Loom to, you know, a bunch of people.

It’s still you talking and handling that question, right?

Travis Cormier: Exactly, yeah. And that’s exactly one of the things that we did. Um, you know, we- you don’t always get the same question, but the people that tend to be asking questions the most are your newer audience

members who are learning and trying to gather information. So a lot of times they are sending the same, the same questions. Uh, and yeah, by just not saying, "Hey Tim," [00:11:00] saying, "Hey, thanks for reaching out," like that simple removal means you can send the same one to, to multiple people and still

maintain that, that personal touch

Tim Melanson: Totally. So let’s talk a little bit about The Jam Room. Now, I see there’s a dog in the background there.

Travis Cormier: Uh-huh

Tim Melanson: So I assume that’s part of your home office, is it?

Travis Cormier: It is. Oh. She, she decided to, she decided to move. Yeah, I decided not to blur my background, you know? It’s, the theme is, is

Tim Melanson: Working from home.

Travis Cormier: from home rockstar,

so like w- let me not hide where I work from, from home,

Tim Melanson: Yep

Travis Cormier: and share it. Um, yeah, that’s, that’s, uh, one of my two at-home coworkers. The other is on the floor behind me.

You can kinda

Tim Melanson: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, I see. I didn’t see that at first.

Travis Cormier: down there. Yeah.

Tim Melanson: That’s so awesome. And, like, I, I mean, the thing about it is that nowadays, I mean, since the last five or six [00:12:00] years, it’s been a lot more normal for people to work from home. But before that it was like people didn’t understand it at all, right? And now it’s, it seems to be a lot more normalized just because people had to go through it, you know, even in the corporate atmosphere.

And there was a lot of companies that just didn’t want to embrace it at all, right? Before they realized that, hey, maybe we can still get productive employees, you know, with, with a work-at-home model, right? And, you know, it sounds like you’ve got a remote model as well, so I’m wondering, like, how is that working for you?

Are- do you feel like you get just as much, if not more, from, from the productivity of your people

Travis Cormier: Uh, I, I think so. Um, I think people knowing that they have a little bit of that flexibility, um, means that they understand when, you know, i- if they need to run an errand during the day. Like, we’re all adults, right? Like, no one wants to have to ask for a hall pass to go out and ru- and run an errand.

It’s just [00:13:00] about understanding that, like, your, your job is to get work done.

So as l- as long as people are are completing their, their deliverables, completing their work. Like, I tell everyone, "I don’t really care if it takes you two hours or 10 hours." I mean, I, I do in a sense, but at the end of the day, you know, if it takes you two hours and your work is done for the day, be available, but I don’t expect you to be sitting there just waiting on something else to come in. Because on the flip side, there’s gonna be those weeks when there’s fires and, and extra work that has to get done where you’re gonna work a little bit more. So it’s a bit of give and take, and I think when people are working from home, it makes it a little bit more palatable than, "Oh, I’m at the office and I’m done, so now I just kinda have to sit here and wait and bide my time and not be personally productive."

[00:14:00] Whereas when working from home, like, you can be personally productive. I can go unload the dishwasher. Uh, I can go do a load of laundry if I need to. And it, at the end of the day, like, it- how is that any different from going to the break room and grabbing a cup of coffee and sitting around chatting with coworkers?

Like, and there’s, there’s definitely benefits to that. I don’t

wanna, wanna downplay that, but, um, like, it’s just about respecting people, people as adults. Um, and for, for us, w- we’ve not found productivity to be, to be an issue at all

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I think that there are people that are more suited for an office, and then there are people that are more suited for working from home too. But I do find that a trend that I’ve, I’ve been noticing, not definitely in the, in the home business area, but even in corporate areas, is focusing a little bit more on [00:15:00] maybe productivity and deliverables rather than focusing on time sitting there, right?

And, and I think that’s an encouraging way to look at it, right? Because it really does reward the high performers. ‘Cause now, I mean, if you can get your work done, you know, in half the time, w- well, isn’t that great? Like, wh- why would you be penalized by having to sit there for the other half of the time and do nothing ’cause you’re already done your work, right?

Travis Cormier: Yeah, I mean, I, I think basing productivity on hours worked is just lazy management. It just says, "I don’t actually know how to manage deliverables and manage my team," but it’s the easiest thing to point to, to say, uh, "My team is working 100% of the time assigned." Like, cool, but how do you know that that’s actually accomplishing the, the goals and stuff?

It’s just lazy management, and it’s just an excuse for, for not [00:16:00] knowing how else to, to manage people

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I think, I think for most businesses, productivity is gonna be the thing. The only ones that would count, you know, for how much time you’re there is maybe you’re working a storefront, and you actually have to be present for that specific time, ’cause customers are gonna come in. Um, you know, but that’s not, that’s different, and, and that’s not the same as most businesses.

Most businesses have these deliverables that they have to create, right? And i- it doesn’t matter how long it takes you to do it. You don’t have to be sitting there and waiting, right? So I, I like that. I think it’s encouraging, right?

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, I, I, I agree. I mean, my former job, I used to be a chemist. I can’t bring chemicals home. I had to be there.

I

Tim Melanson: There you go

Travis Cormier: if, if they told me to bring chemicals home, I would, I would be a little weary of wherever, wherever I’m working. So you’re right, there, there certainly are some jobs and some careers where it’s necessary, but for the vast [00:17:00] majority of office jobs, uh I don’t, I don’t see it as

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, a- and even as a chemist too, like, uh, there’d probably be things you have to accomplish during the day, so even that doesn’t necessarily have to be, you know, clock in at whatever time, clock out at this time, you have to be there during that time. That would only really apply to a storefront thing or a customer support thing where you’re actually handling a shift.

Other than that, I mean, if you get your work done and you do it faster than everybody else, I, I thi- I just think it, it, it encourages you to bring on better talent, right? ‘Cause now the people that are encouraged to be faster and better, right?

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Yeah. And it also just gives you better access to talent, right? I mentioned we have some employees based in the Philippines. We couldn’t do that if we were an in-person company. Um, it– We don’t even have two employees that live in the same city. So, uh, like, when we go to [00:18:00] hire, we don’t have to limit ourselves.

You know, I’m in, I’m in Houston in Texas in the US. If we were in person, I would limit myself just to Houston, which not a– It’s a big enough city. We’ve got plenty of people here. But I can cast a nationwide or even international net to be sure that we’re, we’re getting, getting the right person. And I, I also think it helps with retention.

Like, people really enjoy the work from home, those high performers, especially if they’ve worked somewhere before that really drove them to, to burnout. Um, the, the work from home life just I think for a lot of people works better.

You know, it can be lonely at times

Tim Melanson: It can be. It can be. But, I mean, there is ways you can get around that. You could go work at a coffee shop or, uh, you know, or if your dog is right there,

Travis Cormier: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: that helps, right?

Travis Cormier: [00:19:00] Yeah. Or like, like I go to the gym at 4:30 every day, and it’s group classes, so I see the same people. I’ve got friendships. That’s my

Tim Melanson: coffee shop. Your, your, your, uh, yep, that’s your water cooler talk

Travis Cormier: Yeah, exactly. And those times when I’m like, "I don’t even wanna talk to people, I just wanna work around people," like you said, go to a coffee shop, go to a co-working place.

Um, but it gives me that flexibility to, to choose that rather than be forced into it

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. Let’s, uh, you know, let’s get a little bit more into the band then and the people in your team that have success. I’m wondering, uh, you know, you- you’ve got a pretty large organization. You came on to the organization, so you, so you didn’t necessarily build it from scratch. Um, but you’re probably very focused on making sure you have the right talent and you also make sure you get rid of the wrong talent, right?

And do you have… What kinds of processes do you have to make sure that that stays true?[00:20:00]

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Uh, one of the, the big things that we do, um, that was… We, we work, we work with a business coach who helped us implement, um, our quarterly alignments, is really what we call them. You know, uh, yes, it is a bit of a review, but part of it is to be sure that we’re aligning with people on that, that personal level.

Um, so yes, we do review based off of your, your work deliverables. We also measure based off of the culture fit. Um, being a remote company, maintaining that company culture does come with some additional challenges. So we look at both. We look at work performance as well as cultural alignment to evaluate people.

And it all, for, for me, it all comes back to intentionally creating the space for that to happen. You know, we can often let [00:21:00] things start to slide, um, and if it’s not addressed, then It, it can start going too far. By doing it once a quarter, it just creates the opportu- opportunity to have those, those candid conversations with people.

Because sometimes it’s just we’re going through different phases of our, of our lives. You

know, your person who’s consistently an, uh, an A plus, a, a member of your A team, might dip down to the B team, and that doesn’t have to be a red flag. It should be a warning sign. But by have… creating the intentional time and space to talk about it means we can’t avoid it.

And a lot of times when you have those conversations, you just realize, oh, okay, you just have some stuff going on in your life. Okay, like, A, is there an opportunity for us to help you with that? B, like, even if not, it can just be about [00:22:00] getting aligned on it. You know, I experienced that myself. My mom got sick during the pandemic. Uh, she lived four hours away by herself. And so days when I wasn’t working, uh, because I was still a chemist for the first half of the pandemic, I left work, drove to my mom’s to go take care of her, stayed there, then came back, went to work, back and forth, which meant not a ton of time with my wife, not a ton of time with my dogs.

And that doesn’t mean that I’m a… Like, my, my work inherently suffered because I never really got time to decompress personally, and that doesn’t mean that I’m a bad employee or that there’s a systemic problem that, you know, needs to be addressed through performance management.

But if y- if you don’t talk about it and don’t converse about it, like, it can [00:23:00] be easy for a manager to look and say, "Your performance isn’t there, so now we’re gonna put you on a performance improvement plan."

And it can just help contextualize the lives that we’re going through. And as a remote company, creating those intentional moments, uh, for me is, is paramount to, to success because you don’t have those kind of organic water cooler type moments that you have in person. So it’s about creating that intentional space to talk with people and determine then, you know, uh, is this something temporary? Sometimes it’s not. Like, the, the truth is sometimes it’s not, and people’s performance just is not keeping up. Maybe their skills aren’t keeping up. Um, and it does need to be addressed through performance management, but it’s about having the space to determine what the right approach is rather than just kind of dismissing everything and really, like, recalibrating.[00:24:00]

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And this is one of those things that, um, when you’re thinking about starting a business, uh, uh, or when you’re thinking about what’s important in your business, a lot of people will focus more on the sales, you know, on the, the actual, the transfer of, of income and all that stuff, and these soft kinds o- kinds of things are things that kind of get pushed on the back burner, I imagine, right?

A, a lot, right? It’s just ’cause y- you’re like, "Oh, do I need to spend my time doing that right now?" But, you know, as you’ve probably already discovered, if you don’t spend that time, then it, it will, like, it- you’re just in a reactionary mode because things start to fall apart and you don’t know why. Whereas if you, like you say, have this intentional time set and you put a priority on it, you know, and there’s probably lots of other examples of things like this that you need to be intentional about, um, and spend your time on it even though it doesn’t directly relate to dollars in the bank account, right?

Travis Cormier: Right. Yeah. And [00:25:00] like it, it not only goes towards understanding your employees, but also like, like in what they’re going through, but for them to talk to you about what they’re experiencing too. Um, because if they’re feeling burnt out or they’re feeling overworked or they’ve got stuff, stuff going on, and you’re just dismissing it, not addressing it, like that’s when people start looking for

another

Tim Melanson: work, yeah

Travis Cormier: well.

And so then if they leave, well, would you rather have spent two hours once a quarter versus now they leave and it’s gonna take maybe at least two to four weeks to hire someone, a couple of weeks to get them, them trained up? And that’s even more time that’s taking away from your ability to do, to do other work.

Uh, so it, it can be hard to prioritize some of the soft work that needs to be done that [00:26:00] it’s not necessarily moving the revenue or the profitability directly, but it’s, it’s securing it more. You know? It’s, it’s helping to, to protect it, um- It’s a give and take sometimes when you’re scaling. Like, there are some stuff that you choose not to do, and you’re building up, uh, I call it, like, institutional debt.

You know, you’re building up s- up this backlog of work that you know needs to get done someday, and you’re choosing not to. And you’re, you have to accept that risk. Like, you have to accept that you can’t do all of it.

Um, someday the bill is gonna come due for that institutional debt. And, uh, like, uh, that’s okay.

Like, that’s, that’s okay. That’s the natural phases of business. You know, I mentioned we were on the Inc. 5000. Very few companies, like, go through growth and just stay like [00:27:00] this forever. Everyone would love that. I don’t know a business owner that wouldn’t love that. But the simple nature of business is it’ll probably eventually plateau, and you have to set up for the next stage of growth, and realizing that that’s when you’re gonna be able to repay some of that debt.

Um, but it’s choosing along the way which debt is okay to, to wait on and which ones you can’t. Um, and I think if you wanna build a good culture with places to work, uh, the, the work around people management is one that you can’t set aside

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, uh, I, I love this, you know, aspect because one of the things I’m trying to accomplish with even this podcast is to inspire more people to take better control of this stuff. And because I think that a lot of these very, very large m- monopolies have, have sort of [00:28:00] like created these work atmospheres that are not super good for most people.

And so I think that number one, you know, you can become self-employed and take control of that stuff and be a solopreneur and make a living that way. But also, you can create your own business as you guys are doing, and actually do it with people in mind and with culture in mind, and with, you know, a, a really clear focus on making it a good place for people to work to contrast against the many bad places for people to work, right?

And, you know, th- there’s gonna be people in all of those buckets, ’cause the bottom line is that we’ve gone through this many times on this podcast, is that not everybody is gonna be super well-suited for running a business, right? There are people that are far more comfortable with working for somebody else, and that is totally cool because there are also a lot of people [00:29:00] that wanna run a business and employ other people, right?

So they need people to work, right?

Travis Cormier: Yeah, exactly.

Tim Melanson: So we can all get a, get those dreams met, and we can create atmospheres that are really good for people to work in, and we can create this new economy that I think is being created right now

Travis Cormier: Yeah, definitely. Um, I mean, one, one of the things that I think doesn’t get talked about enough about running, running a business, owning your own business, um, like people talk about how exciting it is and how cool it is and how freeing it is, and all of those are true.

Like, all of those are true. But too often people don’t discuss the emotional burden that comes with it.

Um, uh, you know, when it’s your business and it’s not just, you know, if you’re a solopreneur, it’s your livelihood, and that’s a very different emotional toll than [00:30:00] working for a big company that’s generally probably gonna be pretty financially secure. Like, you’re typically not worried about your paycheck bouncing.

Um, like there’s this emotional side to it that I think many people don’t expect and aren’t prepared for.

Um, and it doesn’t have to be a bad thing, but it applies if you’re a solopreneur. Then if you grow and have employees, like their livelihood depends on you, and that’s a pretty heavy burden, I think, uh, to, to carry that- Isn’t talked about probably ’cause it’s not the fun side of bu- or it’s not the side that people who are selling courses

about starting your own business,

uh, want to be, to be honest about.

But it’s the truth is that, like, people are putting their, their trust in, [00:31:00] in you and your company to be able to deliver so they can maintain their livelihoods. And, uh, that can be a very different weight that people aren’t expecting. Um, and some of the hard decisions that, that can come with that. You know, you mentioned it- it’s easy to talk about keeping good people, but when it’s about truly people who aren’t performing and aren’t delivering and letting them go, like-

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Travis Cormier: Man, that’s, that’s tough.

Now, it’s worse for them. Like, I will always admit that it is worse for the person that, that’s being let go. But when you’re in that situation, like, you just became the villain in someone’s life story.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Travis Cormier: And that’s something you have to, you have to live with, and, you know, those aren’t the, [00:32:00] the fun, sexy stories on LinkedIn that, that help get likes.

Um, but it is the honest truth of the, the emotional burden that comes, whether it’s personally or the responsibility to other people

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I will say though that, um, I don’t know if it’s completely impossible to avoid that situation, but, but there are ways that you can improve it. And yeah, I mean, you’ve mentioned a few of them. If you have really good onboarding and really good hiring processes and, like you said, those quarterly reviews, things that will actually, you know, kinda keep

‘Cause I mean, like what you said earlier, there’s a possibility that whatever’s going on, especially if they were a good hire, now they’re not, there’s probably something going on in their personal life. And if you don’t know what that is, then you might end up in a situation where you’re letting them go and you just don’t get it.

And it really is just something that they need a little bit of grace on to get through something, and then they’ll be back, right? Um, but yeah, they … I mean, that just goes right back to what your m- main point [00:33:00] is. If you don’t spend that time doing those things, then you’re gonna be a villain, villain pretty quickly, and nobody wants that, right?

Travis Cormier: No, no,

Tim Melanson: So it’s worth it to spend the time.

Travis Cormier: It is, even, even just for your own mental health.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Travis Cormier: Yeah

Tim Melanson: Right on. So let’s get into your soul a little bit. So tell me what’s exciting your business right now?

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Um, what I am really excited about, um, is we’re going through kind of a fundamental shift in, in our business, and it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s scary. Um- Our current revenue model, uh, pretty heavily relies on affiliate marketing. Um, so full transparency, you know, you mentioned we teach people how to use credit card rewards.

We partner with the banks, and we get a commission if someone opens a credit card through us. We don’t hide that. We’re honest with people about it. Um, and what that means, though, is [00:34:00] that we are always subject to the whims of the credit card companies. Our revenue is not… It’s not ours. Um, uh, and what I mean by that is if the banks change policies, if they decide to just not do it anymore, it really impacts our business.

Um, we saw this during the pandemic when our revenue dropped 80, 90% over the course of a, a couple of weeks. Um, so we’re really working to diversify that. Um, we have, uh, a BHAG, if you’re familiar with that term. If not, it’s a big, hairy, audacious goal. It’s, like, what’s, what’s that big goal that you’re really working towards?

Um, so our, the one we’re working towards right now is called FTB. It’s free the business. Um, and it doesn’t mean we don’t want our affiliate revenue, but it, it’s the– We know that we have accomplished it whenever we can cover 100% of our operating [00:35:00] costs from non-affiliate revenue. Um, so because then we’re not subject to, to the banks.

If they change their policies, we don’t have to inherently react to the way that we operate. And this isn’t something we’re doing as a response to anything or from the banks. It’s about, like, we have a mission to, I mentioned before, to help connect dreams with reality, to educate our audience, to empower them to travel the world and save.

And so long as our revenue is dependent on factors that are outside of our control, that mission is at risk. And so we want to try to recapture as much of that control as, as we can so we can continue providing value for people, um, even if, even if the banks decide they don’t want to, to do affiliate marketing [00:36:00] anymore. Um, if they wanna keep doing it, like it’s, it’s, it’s great, but we want to at least protect it, so that way we can be there in the long run, serving our, our community and our audience. Um, I’m really excited about it. It means we’re really having to rethink the value we provide to people. You know, we’ve always…

Our value proposition has always been- You don’t have to pay us anything. Like, if you get value, just use our links and someone else will pay us. Uh, whi- which is a really cool value proposition, right? To, to tell your audience, "You don’t have to pay us anything to get value from, from our company." Um, but the truth is, is that that means that the value we provide is going to continuously be at risk.

So we want– I really wanna be sure that if our audience is providing us directly with, with their hard-earned dollars, that they’re truly getting good [00:37:00] value, um, getting more return than what they, they are paying us, so that way it can be just a win-win relationship where they can get more value than what they’re paying, and they know that we’re gonna be around here for the long haul, uh, with their best interests in mind

Tim Melanson: Right on. So how does the program work?

Travis Cormier: Yeah. Uh, so we typically tell people to start with our course. Um, they can go to 10xtravel.com to, to find it. Um, I know that it’s a lot to ask people to start with a course, but the reason why we do it is we feel that it’s important to be ethical and responsible, uh, educators in, in this space. You know, when we’re talking about credit cards, you and I were kinda chatting before, there’s definitely some risks to be aware of.

Like, you can easily go into debt. You can easily pay a lot of money. You can mess up your credit. And we don’t take those risks lightly, and that’s why [00:38:00] we ask people to just check us out, start with our, our course. It’s free. Our c- our introductory course will always be free, um, because it, it sets that foundation to provide you with at least a little bit of baseline information to get started and to make the decision about if this is right for you.

Uh, without that, I don’t know that I would feel super comfortable telling people to just go open up credit cards. It’s let’s be sure that you’re educated about what you’re doing first and making the, the right decision for you and, and your family

Tim Melanson: Yeah, that, I love that. That sounds so responsible too, because, I mean, we were talking a little bit before this, this call, and, and credit cards are so misunderstood and just so thrown out there. Like, people will just go and open up credit cards and open up store credit cards and just, just like nothing.

And okay, might be fine, right? But, but on the other hand, you know, there, there’s a lot of like, I don’t [00:39:00] even know what I wanna call it, fine print, I guess, like, on, on how they work, and you can get yourself into trouble really quickly. And then the other aspect of it too, which just kind of goes through our society, is that we tend to not talk about money, and especially problems with money, with people around us, including our families.

A- and, and so you’ll end up, you’ll end up, you know, just struggling silently with this thing that was just pushed upon you with no education at all. And, and now, you know, you’re kind of in trouble. So i- I mean, if nothing else, I mean, if you’re offering a course on that, that’s enough I would think for anybody to just go take the course to understand a little bit more of it.

You could… I, I, I mean, do you have to… Like, is this a sort of something you could do anonymously as well? Or, like, how does that work?

Travis Cormier: Uh, so the, the online, the, like, text-based version of our course, uh, they do have to register for our software platform.

Um, but if you do wanna do it, uh, do it more anonymously, we actually have our own podcast, [00:40:00] and the first six episodes of our podcast is the course in audio version.

Tim Melanson: Oh, well, that’s great. What’s the podcast? Tell me more.

Travis Cormier: Uh, it’s called Take Off!

A Points and Miles Podcast by 10x Travel. So a lotta people kept asking us for an audiobook version of the course for years, and that just … Something just didn’t feel right about an audiobook

version. Um, and finally one day we said, "What if we tried a podcast format?" So we did. And, um, now the podcast keeps going, but it let us set that foundation, "Hey, you don’t have to register.

You don’t have to, to read it. If you wanna listen, there you go."

Tim Melanson: So is this something… Now, okay, I mean, if you don’t have a credit card yet and you’re listening to this podcast, go learn about it ’cause it, it could get out of control really, really quickly. But I’m wondering, is this something that someone could benefit from if they already have credit cards and maybe they’re already in some trouble?

Travis Cormier: Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, if, if they’re already… I- if, if you [00:41:00] already have credit cards and you’re managing it fine, you’ll learn how to optimize them to get more value from the credit cards you have or maybe change your card portfolio a bit. But also, if you’re already in trouble a little bit, some of that underlying knowledge and information just about how they work can help you better understand what you’re, what you’re dealing with, um, to work on fixing things, um, and just preparing yourself.

Um, in fact, we have an episode as well in our podcast with our, uh, social media manager and our community manager who he had to go through fully repairing his credit, um, before he, he could get started. Um, he had unfortunately, like, just gotten in a rough patch of life and his credit, um, wasn’t in a great spot.

Um, but it’s a wonderful story of how he went from rebuilding his credit, understanding it, and [00:42:00] putting himself in a better position to, to manage it going forward, so that way he then could take advantage

of, of the credit cards

Tim Melanson: That’s amazing. Yeah, because, I, I mean, that’s the, the flip side of it is that these, the point systems and, you know, all the, the cashback things and all the credit cards, they, they offer all these really good programs in a way. I mean, a lot of it is just free money. And, and that’s what kind of catches people off guard is ’cause, uh, uh…

But, but I mean, the, the way I, I always thought about it is that, okay, nothing in this world is free. S- that doesn’t make any sense. So if they’re offering you this great, you know, travel pack where you’re gonna be able to go and take all these vacations and all that stuff, somebody’s paying for that somewhere, right?

And so I mean, if you’re, you know, uh, taking Travis’s courses and learning how to use it, and now all of a sudden you’ve got a situation where you’re benefiting from these programs, then that’s fantastic, but somebody isn’t, right? [00:43:00] And, and I think that the, the, the goal really now is to not be that somebody who isn’t, right?

And, and try to get a little bit more education on that. And if it was easy, if, I mean, if it, if it was something that, oh, you know, it’s just a little mistake, well then they wouldn’t be giving free vacations away to people. Like, for… Like, it clearly is a big problem that people are getting themselves into, otherwise they wouldn’t have that kind of money to give back to people, right?

Travis Cormier: Exactly. Yeah. Um, between that and, uh, you know, if, if you have a business, you- and you take credit card payments, you know you’re paying, m- m- here in the

US maybe 2% or 3%.

every time someone swipes it. They, they’re making money there too.

Um, so it’s like if they’re taking that away from your, from your business, do whatever you can to, to get some of the pie back for

Tim Melanson: Absolutely. Well, and, and that’s the part that I think probably people are like, "Oh, but that’s where they make their money." Yes, that’s one of the places [00:44:00] where they make their money, but interest is significantly more, right?

Travis Cormier: those in- those interest rates are a lot more than 2% to 3%.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, absolutely. Right on. Okay, so we’re running out of time here. I got one more question. This might be the hardest one. Who’s your favorite rock star or band?

Travis Cormier: Ooh. Uh, you know, here’s what I’ll say. Um I’m gonna twist it a little bit because I, I have way too many come to mind. The best live show that I’ve ever been to,

if this is a fair twist, uh, proud to say Lady Gaga,

Tim Melanson: Wow

Travis Cormier: on such an incredible performance. We saw her here in Houston, and had so many flames going that you could feel the heat every time that, that it came off.

Um, really just incredible. Um, I’ll probably [00:45:00] also give a shout-out to the Foo Fighters, who I saw at Austin City Limits, I think two, maybe three years ago. Um, they’ve been doing it a long time. They know how to work a crowd. They know how to put on a great show. And part of what made it, uh, extra special was they were performing at the same time as Shania Twain, and my wife really wanted to go to Shania.

And I said, "Shania has her Vegas residency, so we can go see her in Vegas. I don’t know when we’ll get to see the Foo Fighters again." Well, Shania finished 30 minutes before the Foo Fighters and came over and got up on stage and sang Best of You with the Foo Fighters, so, uh, yeah, great. Just great being out there at, like, 9:30 at night. At least getting to see both of them, um, was, was also really, really memorable

Tim Melanson: That is so awesome. Thank you [00:46:00] so much, Travis, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun.

Travis Cormier: Thanks, Tim. I really enjoyed it

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work At Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. I love this next guest’s, uh, business name. This is really, really cool. He’s the president, founder, and CEO of LIWMI Logistics, and what that means is Life Is What We Make It. Love that. That’s so cool. And what he does is he, he inspires people to take control of their lives and build something meaningful.

Very excited to be rockin’ out today with Randy Vlasic. Hey, Randy, you ready to rock?

Randy Vlasic: Let’s go. Let’s rock, Tim. Thanks for having me on the show

Tim Melanson: Love it. So we always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success so we can be inspired by.

Randy Vlasic: Oh, wow. Okay. Um, you know, when I was a kid, I, I wasn’t a great student. So just, just to give you a brief, um, uh, start of where, where I got started, I, I… When I was in school, I didn’t really do well because I didn’t love what I was doing and I didn’t apply it. So I, I, I didn’t really have that curiosity to go and learn it, right?

So as I got older, I kind of had to figure out my way and, um, and I did. So I, I started to get obsessed with trying to find, um, people [00:01:00] that were successful and try to, to copy some of their habits and learn from them so that I could do the same thing. So I went through retail and multi-level marketing, but I ended up into, in, in logistics eventually in my early 20s.

Uh, started out in sales, did really, really well, and eventually decided to start my own company. So I started my first company in 2014. Um, I, I, I, uh, was mid-20s at the time. I, I was doing sales for about four years, but I ended up building that company and, and selling it, um, two years later for, for seven figures, um, when I was 29. So it was, it was a wild ride, you know, up to that point and getting to there. It was just a, a whole, a whole, you know, river of different rapids and decisions that came about and, um, you know, I always choosed, always chose the challenging path and wanted to grow as an individual and it, it worked out. So that was probably the biggest success in my early in my, early on in my career

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s amazing. I, uh, I went through the multi-level marketing industry as well, and, uh, you know what? You learn a lot through that, [00:02:00] don’t you?

Randy Vlasic: You know, it was probably one, I, I think one of the best experiences that I had because, you know, with the MLM model, like, it, it was about selling somebody a dream, right? And for me as a young kid who didn’t really have a college education, like, I was always looking for that. So when I found somebody who was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year that told me I could do that, I was in.

You know, like, there it wasn’t any hesitation. I was jumping, um, both feet in at the same time, right? And so I got into it and the… I learned so much from so many of those people that were successful in the MLM model. It also forced me to become really good at recruiting, right? So getting to know people, finding out what makes them tick, trying to in- to, to sell them a dream and help them understand my vision of where I was going and how they fit into that.

And so I think I took a lot away from multi-level marketing in the business

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, me too. And I don’t think a lot of people necessarily think of that getting into it. I think first of all, they’re trying to make a, a buck real quick, which is, it isn’t. [00:03:00] I mean, it’s a, it’s a course really. It takes you a little bit of time to g- to get through it. And then, and then, um, you know, just, uh, the, the number of people that I know that didn’t necessarily make a bunch of money in multi-level marketing, although some of them did, and I made some money as well, but were able to just spin off and t- and start a business out of that, that actually did do well, it’s, it’s crazy.

I mean, you’d, you know, you, you don’t hear those stories very often. You hear about the people that failed, right? You know, and, and, and are complaining about it. Mm

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, people made it work. There were people making hundreds of thousands of dollars. I saw, you know, my wife I met in, in that multi-level marketing company. I saw her make, you know, it was insurance, mortgages, and investments, and, um, hence why I got out in 2008. But I saw a lot of people, uh, uh, you know, earn a good living there.

I mean, I was 22 at the time, 23, and I was making, you know, $90,000 in that space. And, um, so at the time I thought I was doing really [00:04:00] good and it, you know

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, you did a lot better than most do it, that’s for sure. That’s, that’s awesome. Yeah, so

Randy Vlasic: though, um, when you mentioned the guys that spun off, I think almost everybody that was on my team is now running a different company and doing really good

Tim Melanson: Yeah. It, it’s one of those things where if you do, if you do take it seriously and you do learn the things that you’re gonna learn, uh, you can’t, uh, it’s very difficult to go back to a job at that point. You know, you don’t, you’re, you, you have, like, control of your life, or you at least learn that it’s possible, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, that was like the first point in my life where I was like, you know, A equals B, right? If I put in the effort, I get the result. And so when there were days where I was like, "Man, I can’t pay my, I can’t pay my car payment. I need to go sell something," like I went and sold something, you know? But that’s the first time you’re like, "Man, this really works and I can do this."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and that feels very similar to when you do start your own y- you know, your own self-employed business as well. I mean, it’s, I, I just remember sitting in that cubicle being an employee, and I mean, if money’s tight, what do you [00:05:00] do? Nothing. You just sit there and wait, I guess, for your next paycheck.

Whereas when you’re, when you’ve got your own thing, it’s just like to your point, it’s like, "Okay, well, I need some extra money. Well, if I go and hustle today, you know, maybe I can, you know, pull in an extra sale and…" Right? I mean, it, it,

Randy Vlasic: There’s always a

Tim Melanson: of that.

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, that’s correct. There’s always a way, it’s just, it’s just finding that way, right? And then going out and being able to execute on that. And sometimes it’s really weird, right? Sometimes that, that unique scenario that you’re in, um, you know, I know we’re gonna get more into this, but, um, when I started this company, LIWMI Logistics, which we’re a third-party, you know, transportation arrangement, it was in, uh, right after COVID happened.

Well, we had this big influx of inventory that came into the market in, uh, 2022, and then in 2023 the market dropped o- dropped off. There was so much inventory, there was no trucking movement. I’d just hired a brand new employees and I, I couldn’t make payroll, and I was like, "I gotta find out, find [00:06:00] another way to make some money."

Well, I had this forum that I was running with other freight broker owners I’d put together through Facebook Marketplace, and one of them was wanting to start a, a freight brokerage in California. So I actually went, went out to California and launched her company at the same time I was building mine. So I set up a six-month consulting agreement just to pay the payroll,

Tim Melanson: Wow

Randy Vlasic: so I could get my business back to stable before I went out and, you know, was able to come back to it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That, that’s the thing, right? I mean, it really does teach you that problem-solving mindset of like, "Hey, I’m in control. Hey, life is what you make it," right?

Randy Vlasic: Right. Well, we make it, right?

Tim Melanson: Life

Randy Vlasic: I don’t think anything in life we can do by ourselves. It always takes more than one

Tim Melanson: Oh, I love that. So now, along with the, the good note, sometimes there’s some things that don’t go as planned. So I do like to talk about the bad note because it seems as though that is the number one thing that holds people back from getting started. They think, "What could go wrong?"

Right? And I like to talk about it because, uh, uh, I- there’s probably something that went wrong, and you’re still here. [00:07:00] So can you tell us, you know, something that went wrong and, and how you recovered?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I think, um, there’s two really major times in my career that, that stand out to me. The first one is, is I didn’t really know myself. Like, my identity wasn’t really great when I was, uh, s- running my first company because it was all about money and profits and making money, right? And that’s all I cared about, and I built my entire life, right, my whole identity was built around this business that I created.

It didn’t have anything to do with anything outside of that. And then when I sold it, you know, I had all this money, but I didn’t have that business anymore. So it was like I lost it, and I didn’t know really who I was anymore. So for a year, I was, like, probably in the darkest place I’ve ever been. You know, I got, I got really depressed at the time, and I started to really look back at some of the things that I did as a, as a leader in that business and some of the lives that I impacted and some of the bad decisions that I made.

There was a lot of people that I reached out to, and I, I apologized You know, but I had to find my identity, and so I, I started to get back into church, and I [00:08:00] started to, to find other people in my life that could help me get out of that, that were mentors and that were in, in good places. And, um, you know, there were a couple friends that I made through that journey that really helped, helped get out of that, and helped me get started and build Life is What We Make It.

And so that’s kind of where this whole concept came from, right? Life is What We Make It. It was about people building each other up, bringing each other together. That was a really dark place in my life, and so I think finding my identity was a, was, um, one of the most important things. Because before I could build anything, I needed to know who I was first, right?

And, you know, at the end of the day, I’m, I’m, I’m a man of God, I’m a father, I’m a husband. Um, I’m a builder. And the… What my, my concept is is what Life is What We Make It is, is to deliver inspiration, inspire people to take ownership of their lives and build something meaningful. LIWMI Logistics, that freight brokerage company, that’s the tool that we use to enable everybody to do that.

You know, it’s not about just profits. It’s about using that as the tool to help people achieve the lives they want. The, the [00:09:00] second one is the one I just told you about, where, you know, the market crashed and, uh, I lost about 60% of my business. We didn’t lose customers, we just lost volume, you know? And, um, and, and I didn’t know what I was gonna do.

I didn’t know how I was gonna make payroll. And I just randomly, I’m like, "Hey, you know, maybe I’ll ask if, if I can start this other company for, for this lady I’m coaching." And she was in. And so that was it. I was running two companies at the same time. I’d have the same meeting schedule, back-to-back meetings.

You know, I’d run with, with my team, then I’d run with her team, and I was building her team at the same time I was building mine. I did that for six months, and I was traveling all over the place, and it was, it was wild. And, um, it was a cool thing, too, because, you know, you go back to the MLM model, you know, the people that I had just hired, like, I had just sold them this dream about how awesome this was gonna be and how we were making so much money and where we were going with the business, and they come on board, and then all of a sudden the business tanks.

You know? And a lot of them took a chance on me. Like, they were taking pay cuts to come here because they knew this was a good opportunity, and they, they’ve worked with me in the [00:10:00] past, and they knew what I was about. And so now I had to show up for them. I can’t just go lay these people off. You know, I could’ve, but then I went back to being a self-operator, so I had to find another way.

And that, um, was weird, right? Like, trying to come up with an alternative solution. I’ve never actually coached somebody before. I had to figure out how to coach them. At the same time, like, I’ve never ran two companies at the same time, so this is kind of scary. But you know what? I gotta do it, and this is a great opportunity.

And then, you know, I just dove in.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow, that’s amazing. Now, is there anything that you do differently coming out of those experiences like that, that you learn from?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. You know, the, um… After selling my first company and really thinking about the relationships that I had, you know, I, I, I didn’t have a lot of relationships from that previous company. Um, I was so focused on the results that I didn’t really spend enough time on, on focusing on the individual and really getting to know them, and so I realized that [00:11:00] afterwards.

And so now, you know, if… I, I would hope that if you’d ask anybody on my team, they’d say that I am 100%… I’m, I’m really a softie at heart and I care, and I always wanna make sure that I am doing everything I possibly can to make them successful before we ever get to a place where, you know, it’s not working out right and we have to go the other way.

And so getting to know them, um, is really important to me and, and what makes them tick. You know, I like learning about their interests because let’s face it, like, their job is not what they’re passionate, uh, their most passionate thing in their life, right? There’s something else. It’s being a musician or, you know, running a podcast or having a, a Twitch channel or a stream or whatever that can be, or their kid’s in soccer.

And so if I learn about those things, then, you know, I can use LIWMI Logistics as a tool to, to help them achieve some of the things they wanna accomplish there too. You know, maybe it’s sending somebody some nice equipment so they can start their Twitch channel or, you know, giving them a, a, you know, a, a giant [00:12:00] soccer net that I had sitting around that we’re not using because I know their kid loves soccer.

And sometimes those small things just make such a big difference. So I really try to focus in on the, um, just on the person and really getting to know them. I genuinely love people

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and figuring out the why, right? Because that is, that is the reason why people get out of bed. There’s gotta be a reason, right?

Randy Vlasic: 100%, yeah. And everybody’s different. Sometimes it’s, it’s surprising

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it is. Let’s talk a little bit about practicing. So, uh, I mean, this can go anywhere, but I’m wondering what, what does practice mean to you?

Randy Vlasic: Uh, you know, I call it, um, mastery, right? It’s like I- I- for me to learn something, first I have to, I have to be interested in it. I have to generate that curiosity to really want to learn it, right? So just like as an instrument, if I wanna learn how to play the guitar, I’m doing that because I love the guitar.

I love the way it sounds. I wanna get in there, and I wanna, wanna understand it. So now I’m watching the YouTube videos. There’s passion there and excitement. So I have to have that curiosity, number one, but once I have that, it’s just em- um, embracing it, right? I think [00:13:00] mastery comes from stepping into that environment and getting to know that environment, and then putting yourself in that uncomfortable situation and getting comfortable in it, right?

It’s like getting on a podcast for the first time. You don’t really know if you’re gonna say the right things. A lot of times you probably don’t. But the more times that you’re in that environment, you know, the more comfortable you get in it, the, and the more mastery or, or, or the better you get at that craft.

I mean, I use sales as an example, too, ’cause I’ve seen so many people who’ll be like, "Well, I’m, I’m struggling in sales." Well, what do you need? Well, they’ll say, "Well, I need more training. You know, I need more training. I wish I had… There was this secret thing." And it’s, there’s no secret sauce to say, "Hey, if you said this, you’re gonna close 90% of your deals."

There isn’t. For m- most of them, I just like to say, "You know what? Practice makes perfect. You gotta be on the phone. You have to be talking to somebody. You have to be in that environment. You have to be getting hit with objections. When you get those, when you get stuck, bring that to me. Let’s work through some of those things."

But we can train on everything today, but [00:14:00] until you put it into practice, it’s really not gonna stick, right?

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I found, I found something really fascinating to me is that when you do that kind of coaching with multiple people in your team, it’s interesting that there are some objections that are the same that everybody gets, but there’s also, like, differences as well. And do you find that that’s, that that happens to you as well, that certain people get certain objections all the time?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I think it, um, it depends on how that individual’s delivering themselves sometimes, I think, right? The, the objections, a lot of, lot of objections are similar. Um, but sometimes it’s just that the way that the person is delivering a certain topic or, or the questions that they’re asking that they’ll get at the same objection that somebody else may not be getting.

So sometimes it is that individual

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and it may, it might have something to do with just the belief and that aspect of whatever it is that they’re offering, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. I mean, belief is the biggest thing, right? It’s, if you can believe in what you’re [00:15:00] selling, you know, you’re gonna be more successful, right? I always, I always use it as this ex- use this example. Like, if you, if I came to you, Tim, and I was like, "Hey, I know you have cancer, and I have the cure for cancer, and I wanna give that to you, but it’s gonna cost you $100,000."

Now, cancer is a significant thing, right? You– if, if, if you had the funds then you, you probably would say yes. But let’s just say you’re like, "No, I don’t, I don’t really want this." My, my conviction on this, this, this cure, though. You’re like, "No one’s ever done this before." I’m like, "No, but I know this." The way that I feel about selling you this pill, the conviction is so strong that I can’t s- I can’t let you say no, Tim.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Randy Vlasic: You know, you have to say yes, and so I’ll have to find a way to do that. That’s always an example I like to use

Tim Melanson: Yep, it’s true. Yeah, and, and, and yeah, I mean, that’s the thing is that if the person doesn’t want on the other side, then it, it, it’s really just a mismatch in what they’re looking for. And then that just probably comes down to more questions. You know, you [00:16:00] didn’t ask the right questions to find out if they actually had cancer in the first place, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yep.

Tim Melanson: I mean, that’s an odd example, but yes.

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to, you know, to understanding the individual that we’re talking to. Like s- I don’t think sales is some… There’s definitely some technique to it, but most of it is just building a relationship and then getting to know what makes the person tick and what they’re trying to accomplish, and helping them do that.

So if we can identify that problem and give them the solution, then there’s a good chance they’re, they’re gonna take it

Tim Melanson: Yep. And I do think that o- as time goes on too, uh, I mean, the, the, you know, the, the tricks, I guess, are less effective as more time goes on, I think, because, uh, I think that, um, you know, especially with AI coming out and all that stuff, there’s lots of, of, you know, tactics and things that you can use. But really people do business with people, and so the more real you are about, you know, yourself, you know, they’re, they’re gonna be attracted to you ’cause they like you, you know, rather than the next person over there that can sell them the same thing, right?

And oftentimes that’s the [00:17:00] thing, is it’s a lot of different people offering the same solution. Why would they choose you, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, so

Randy Vlasic: I, even in, in the logistics side of things, I mean, I could give you an example. You know, we roll out LTL as a service, which is less than truckload. It was a new service offering we had, and we’ve never done it before. And I’ve, I have done it at my previous companies and managed, you know, $50 million of it.

But, you know, as a new service offering, going to a customer and being able to say, "Listen, I know you guys are doing this. I know there’s opportunity there. I know I can offer a solution, and I wanna build that for you, and I want you to be the one to help me build that. Help, help me understand what’s important so that I can build this solution to really meet your need."

And they love that stuff. You know, it’s not just like, "Hey, let me sell you LTL." It’s like, "Let me- let’s make this together." You

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Hey, your, uh, your background looks awesome. That, is it, that’s a real background, right?

Randy Vlasic: It is, it is, yeah

Tim Melanson: So let’s talk a little bit about your jam room. So what does your home [00:18:00] office look like?

Randy Vlasic: Oh, man, it is a production studio, Tim. I love my home office, um, so much, and I’ve invested a ton of money into it and, and time. And, you know, when I first started working from home in 2017, I think it was, um, you know, I had a, I had an office room, and it had this big giant desk in it, and it had another desk in it, and it had a, a file cabinet and all this stuff in there.

And, like, I had a standup desk that sat on top of that, and it was just cluttered. And it wasn’t, um, a place that I really loved because it was like the storage closet, right? My wife would, like, she needed to h- to stick something somewhere, she’d put it in the office, right?

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: So I got stuff all over the place and I’m like, "I hate this."

You know, when I walk into work every day I’m like, "Man, this environment is just not, it’s not motivating me," you know? And, uh, so I’m like, we had this, this room in the front of the house. I, I called it the museum room. It was the room where, like, we had all the nice furniture but nobody ever really sat in it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: And I’m like, "I’m taking the museum room over." So I [00:19:00] took that over. I have, um, the VariDesk, which is one of my favorite desks. They’re just super durable. They’re kind of expensive, but Vari makes them. Um, it’s a standup desk. Underneath me I have a, um, uh, a treadmill. So I typically like to walk when I’m working during the day.

I sit down when I’m doing stuff like this. But I spent a lot of time, you know, in, in getting good equipment, cameras and lights and, and making this a place that I really love to come into, and sometimes I’ll come in here for fun, you know?

Tim Melanson: That is awesome.

Randy Vlasic: yeah.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome, yeah. And, and, and that’s just it. I mean, if, if your, if your job is at home and you’re not excited to get into your office, then how are you really gonna get anything done, right?

Randy Vlasic: That’s right. So I, I definitely love this space. You know, my kids love, love this space too, and I like to keep it clean and tidy when I can, and yeah

Tim Melanson: Uh, have you, uh, do, do you have an issue with, like, people interrupting you during the day at all, or?

Randy Vlasic: Um, yeah, [00:20:00] sometimes. I mean, my kids are… You know, my son’s on this e-bike kick, right? And so it’s like every time he needs something with the e-bike, he just walks in, he’s like, "I need new tires. I need new brakes," whatever it may be. And so he’ll walk in, and sometimes it happens, but for the most part, you know, they can hear me or they see that I’m on a call, and they know that, you know, when Dad’s on a call, don’t bother him.

Um, and then they’ll come in, and they’ll sometimes they’ll just give me a wave and they’ll walk by, and I’ll know they need something, and I’ll go find them afterwards. And sometimes, you know, I just had an example where I was having a conversation with a, an employee the other day, and my son, he just made the honor roll, right?

Comes home from school super excited. He comes running into my office. I can see the excitement on his face, and I know, I’m like, "Man, this is something I probably need to listen to." And I, I asked, you know, the employee, I was like, "Hey, man, listen, can you give me a couple minutes? Can I call you right back?"

Had him sit down and tell me all about it. He was so excited. Um, so there’s times like that, too, you know, where I, I, I will, uh, uh, stop what I’m doing to give him the time, and I think that’s the benefit of working from home, right? You’d have the same interactions if you’re sitting at a desk in a cubicle.

Someone’s gonna walk up to you and bother you in the middle of the day, and you’re gonna [00:21:00] stop what you’re doing and talk to them. So rather it be my kid, you know-

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And, uh, I mean, I think that this kind of thing maybe might keep people from starting a business from home, thinking that, "Oh, I’m just gonna get interrupted all day," and I don’t know how… And, and number one, I think kids espe- especially more than adults, they get it faster, right? I mean, if you, you know, maybe, um, and I know when I first g- started working from home long before lockdowns and all that stuff, people didn’t quite understand it.

They thought I could help them move ’cause I was doing nothing.

Randy Vlasic: That’s right.

Tim Melanson: right? But

Randy Vlasic: go golfing?

Tim Melanson: go ahead

Randy Vlasic: You know, or somebody asks you to go golfing or whatever during the day, I’m like, "I’m working."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. They’re like, "Ah, I got the day off, let’s go golfing." And you’re like, "Oh, come on." But, but I, I think that for, for kids it’s like th- they don’t know any different, so it’s, it’s a matter of like, "Oh, Dad works from home, so he’s working.

Like, okay, I gotta leave him alone." So you, you do find that. But then the, the next thing you mentioned about when your kid comes in, how do you think that, like, the, the, how did the customer react when [00:22:00] you had to go for a second?

Randy Vlasic: Um, it w- it wasn’t a customer. If it was a customer, I- typically I would tell my son, "I’ll- give me a minute and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll reach out to you." Unless it’s somebody that I’m really close with and I could say, "Hey, David, you know, we’ve worked together for a long time. Can I just call you back in a minute?" I think the customer will respond, uh, well to that.

You know, I, I, most people find, like, when it’s something that’s really important to you like that, like your kids and, you know, they have kids and they can share in that too, like, they’ll, they’ll promote that. I think as somebody who’s considering to work from home, you know, man, I have kids at home, and is that an interruption?

Like, yeah, I think working from home is the absolute best because it gives us more flexibility than working in an office. First of all, I’m saving, you know, whatever it is, 13, 30 minutes, half an hour, an hour drive time each single, every single day. If I was working late, I’m working at the office, so I can’t just come out and have dinner with my family and go back in.

Here I can do that, right? I can step out, I can go ha- have a meal with my family, I can get them off to school. I can come back in, I can get back to work. And I think that’s [00:23:00] the, that’s where working from home really is super valuable, and I think that work-life balance that it provides to our employees too is the same, you know?

Like I have, we have people that their kids get off the bus at 3:00. Every day at 3:00, they’re going to get their kid from the bus. Like it- that’s great. Go get your kid from the bus. Like I don’t expect you to sit here from 8:00 to 5:00 and work nonstop and, and ignore everything that’s going around you. All what I care about is, you know, did we meet the KPIs and the expectations?

Are we getting the results that we need, you know? That’s all that matters to me. If you can– If you’re a salesperson that can deliver exceptional results better than any other salesperson and do it in four hours, nobody’s pissed off about that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: You’re leading the sales team, but you’re gonna do it in four hours.

Everybody else is doing less, and they’re doing it in eight. Like no one’s mad about that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, number one, I, I agree. I, I think that clients and, and team members actually, I think it probably benefits you to show that you’re a human and you have, you know, y- [00:24:00] you love your kids and that kind of stuff, right? Like, I think that that’s a super benefit. And then the second part that you mentioned too, like, yeah, I mean, there’s just so many people in the corporate world that are focused on how much time they’re at the office rather than what kind of productivity that they’re producing.

And I mean, that’s really what’s important. And w- as business owners, we should be more interested in what they’re producing rather than how much time they’re sitting at their desk, right?

Randy Vlasic: I mean, it all comes down to results, you know? And I definitely don’t wanna be the person that has to micromanage you. You know, I can … I don’t need a software tool that runs on everybody’s laptop that tells me, you know, what they’re doing ni- every single minute of the day. I just need to know that our business KPIs are this, you know, maybe it’s Y, and we need to hit that KPI.

And so as long as we’re hitting that metric and that metric is, is operating, great. Now, if we’re not hitting that metric, then we’re having a conversation about that. But I’m not sitting there going, "Hey, you’re, you, you turned yellow for, for 30 minutes. Like, what have you been doing?" Like, I don’t wanna be that guy.

I wanna give that to the team and let them run with it, [00:25:00] you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So what tools do you use in your business to get you success?

Randy Vlasic: Um, well, I think my home setup is my biggest, my biggest tool. This is a command center, right? From a, from a digital standpoint, I am having so much fun with artificial intelligence.

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Randy Vlasic: So much fun with it. I am, uh, you know, I, I’m, I am not, uh, a programmer by all means. You know, I’ve launched a personal branding website.

I just launched, um, lifeiswhatwemakeit.com, which is, is about giving, giving back to, to, to drivers. And so there’s, you know, gear that we sell and stuff like that, and then we give proceeds to, to the driving community and give them healthy meals. And like, you know, I’ve built that stuff and, and by myself in a matter of hours.

You know, I remember when I first built my first website for LIWMI Logistics, it cost me $10,000 to build that. You know, when I went to go build randyvlasich.com, they wanted 4,000. Then I found AI, and I was like, "Pfft," and I built it in three hours by myself, and I never coded a [00:26:00] single thing before, right? So I’m also using AI a lot of times, like, to be my executive assistant.

It sends me an update every single morning in my email. It tells me where the numbers are at. So I’m us- loving AI in that way. It’s making me… It’s like unlocking superpowers for me. Like, it fills all the gaps that I had, and all the things that I hated doing, it does those great.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Ugh, I can’t say enough about it as well. All that left brain stuff, right? I mean, it allows you to be creative and it lets all the monotonous stuff, it does it for you, right?

Randy Vlasic: Time-consuming stuff. Like just, you know, I can come up with the, the, the content that I wanna deliver, it can help me build it, and then I can just do it, or I can have it run an analysis, and then I can just validate it for a customer. From an analog perspective, um, you know, I, I, I like to read a little bit.

Um, I’m not great at it, but I do like to read a little bit. My favorite tool, my favorite instrument though would definitely be the pen.

Tim Melanson: Hmm

Randy Vlasic: Um, I love fountain pens, and I think everything starts for me with the pen. [00:27:00] And, you know, when you th- when I- we talk about goals and things like that, like I’m, I’m a … I like to journal every single day.

I like to, to ta- to see how my day went. It forces me to slow down, to, to think intentionally, to write it down. And then when I get into the business side of thing, when it comes to planning, like I like to just un- disconnect from, from the digital world, and, and just sit there and really just write, plan, strategy, mind map.

Um, even like my business, uh, business vision, right? I mean, we all have goals in life. I think vision’s, the vision of it is the most important, and having a document to me is, is the best because if I can look out three years in my business, and I have it written down on a piece of paper, and I have that in front of me every single day, I’m always looking at it.

And if I get off track, I can very specifically see where I’m off track and what I need to fix. And so for my vision, I like to look out three years and then write it in present tense. What do I see in the, ar- around me? What are we doing as a remote company? What are we, uh, [00:28:00] philanthropic things are we doing?

What are we doing as a, as a community? How are we getting together? How are we helping other people? And I can write that in, in present tense and then have that document to do it. So for me, it’s definitely a pen and paper.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah, and so you do… It’s, it’s almost affirmations, I guess, right? Where you write it in the present tense

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. So, um, yeah, just like affirmations, right? I’m a successful person. I’m, uh, you know, I’m a CEO of a $100 million company and, uh, we have a worldwide remote team and, you know, we’re, we’re getting featured in, in a lot of different articles, and companies are coming to us and they’re, they’re asking us how we, how we run the successful remote team, and they’re learning from us and operationally how they do it.

Like, it, it puts you in that environment, right? And then you can, you can see that

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And they work. I mean, I know a lot of people think that they don’t, uh, but it is, it is sort of this magic, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I mean, otherwise, you know, the, the alternative is, and I’ve done it too, I’m like, "Hey, I got an Excel file that has what I wanna be as an individual, what I wanna be as a [00:29:00] business owner, what do I wanna be as a father and a husband," right? And I got all these, these things that I wanna accomplish. But that sits in a file in a folder that I never have opened.

So the only time that I’m seeing that is if I’m doing, you know, intentional reviews weekly, quarterly, monthly. But if I have a document that sits on my desk, I can share that document with somebody else now. So when I interview somebody for a job, I’m like, "Hey, read this first. Tell me what you think about it.

Where do you see yourself fitting into it?" Now I have something that’s tangible

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. You know, the, the physical, there’s, there’s something to be said about that, and even physical books, right? Rather than, um, you know, e-books or even audiobooks. I mean, audiobooks are super helpful because you can listen to them while you’re doing something else. But the physical books, I mean, there is something to be said for it, right?

Randy Vlasic: 100%. I, uh, the books that I read, um … So I have attention deficit disorder, ADHD. So typically when I read a book by myself, I read a book or I read a whole chapter sometimes, and I get to the end and I’m like, "What did, what did I just read? I don’t even remember what happened." I have to go read it again. And so what I’ve [00:30:00] learned is, that works best for me is I’ll, I’ll, I’ll order the book as an audiobook, and I’ll listen to the book while I read it, and then I just use the book for notes, and I take notes in the book, and I highlight things as I’m listening to it, but I like to listen to it

Tim Melanson: That’s an excellent idea. I never even thought to do that. That’s a great idea because you just order it in two different formats, and now you can follow along in the book just like your parents read to you.

Randy Vlasic: That’s right. And then I have, again, that tangible thing that I, if I wanna m- I’m like, "Hey, there was that book that I read and I love that spot." I can just go grab it off the bookshelf, and I can open it up, and I can see it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Love that. So I’m excited to hear your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your, in your business right now

Randy Vlasic: Oh my gosh. Um, so I just launched Life is What We Make It, like the real movement part of it, about a month ago. Um, so the cultures and the values all live in LIWMIlogistics.com, and we’re doing amazing things. The freight market is absolutely wild right now.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Randy Vlasic: Help companies understand their transportation in such a way that it becomes such a value proposition to them in the [00:31:00] market.

But Life is What We Make It, um, the whole goal of it is to inspire men and people to, to take ownerships for lives and build something meaningful. And so I’m trying to build a following and share some content that’s, that’s able to help some other folks that may be be in similar industries, and bring on maybe a couple guests that can share some of their stories.

Um, and then I’m just using LIWMI Logistics as kind of the tool to, to, to enable m- myself and my team to be able to do those things. So the movement is, is starting. It’s very new, you know, and, uh, and again, it’s one of those things just like anything else. It’s scary, man. I, I … This is my seventh podcast and I can’t

You know, every single one I get off and I’m like, "What was I thinking? Why did I say that?" And then this is the same thing. I’m like, "Why did I roll that content out? Oh my God, I, I didn’t put music on or I did something wrong." And, but it’s fun and it’s ins- it’s exciting for me. And the, um, what it’s doing for other people is the most rewarding thing.

You know, I have 20-something-thousand TikTok followers [00:32:00] on TikTok, right? And I got that through, through a weird video I posted with my daughter that we made together. But now that I’ve shifted to Life is What We Make It, and I’m sharing content that has to do with like finding your identity, building your vision, how do you master your habits, what are the people that help you get there, what does m- m- uh, um, momentum look like?

Now I’m having all these kids reach out, and I never even thought about inspiring children, but I’m having my son … You know, I’ve had kids that my sons know or these kids that are reaching out. They’re like, "Hey, I never even thought about this. This is really helping me in my life."

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That’s

Randy Vlasic: And so yeah, it’s been, it’s been a wonderful ride.

I’m having a lot of fun with it

Tim Melanson: So how do we find out more?

Randy Vlasic: Um, the best way to find me is just go to randyvlasic.com. Um, it links to all my social platforms there and everything that I’m doing. Um, it links to, um, our movement site as well. Um, so again, just randyvlasic.com

Tim Melanson: And so where’s the podcast available then?

Randy Vlasic: Right on randyvlasic.com. It’s hosted on, on [00:33:00] all the major podcast networks. So you can find it on Spotify and, uh, I have it on YouTube, um, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, but all of the links for everything that I do is on randyvlasic.com

Tim Melanson: Oh, love that. Right on. All right, so maybe the toughest question of all, and we’re gonna get into the music side a little bit. So who is your favorite rock star or band?

Randy Vlasic: Oh, God. I think, um, man, I love Kid Rock. I w- yeah, I think from a rock star standpoint, like definitely it’s Kid Rock, but I love all kinds of music. The only thing I don’t listen to is hard metal, but outside of that I’ll, I’ll, I’m rap, rock, and, and country all in the same car ride.

Tim Melanson: Nice. Well, I mean, those, those are kind of like getting mixed together nowadays, isn’t it?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. Yeah, no doubt it is. It is

Tim Melanson: Have you ever seen Kid Rock in concert?

Randy Vlasic: I did. Last time I saw them was at, uh, Summerfest in, in Milwaukee. I went with my wife.

Tim Melanson: That’d be quite the show, eh?

Randy Vlasic: oh, it was a great show. Great show

Tim Melanson: that’s awesome. Well, thank [00:34:00] you so much for rocking out with me today, Randy. This has been a lot of fun

Randy Vlasic: Oh, Tim, it’s been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having on me, or having me on the show

Tim Melanson: No problem. And so we’ll see you next time on the n- on the Work At Home Rockstar podcast, and make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information

Randy Vlasic: Take care