Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Today we are talking to the CEO of Fanbridge Consulting, and what he does is he helps people to understand the, the non-food franchising and to un- identify the top available opportunities on the market. So I’m super excited to be rocking out today with Jon Austinson.

Hey, Jon. You ready to rock?

Jon Ostenson: Hey, Tim, ready to rock. Excited to be here

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, we always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, you know, I’ve been fortunate to be able to build a business that allows me to do what I enjoy doing day in, day out, helping people, working from home, and, uh, yet, you know, been on the Inc. 5000 the last couple years. I’ve been able to build a sizable practice, and I do that by helping others. And so, uh, yeah, it’s incredibly fulfilling.

Um, I spent many years in the corporate world and always had that desire to be a business owner, didn’t know where to start, didn’t have franchising on my radar, and it was about 10 years ago that, uh, franchising landed on my radar. So look forward to unpacking that. Um, but yeah, I pinch myself every day.

Could never work for anybody again, and, uh, just feel very blessed to, to be able to serve others[00:01:00]

Tim Melanson: Yeah, you can’t go back, eh? It’s, it’s a tough thing

Jon Ostenson: Can’t come back. Unemployable, as they like to say within entrepreneurship circles. And what’s amazing is most of the folks I hang out with these days are business owners, right? It’s just a different conversation. It’s a different way of thinking and, uh, yeah, a different sense of freedom as well. And, and nothing’s easy.

If business ownership was easy, everyone would be doing it. So I never wanna sugarcoat it, but it does provide that path to the life that you’re looking to, um, that most people are looking to lead

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I mean, there’s just more, I think there is more opportunities. It’s more under- well understood now too. Like, so I, I’ve just seen a massive difference in the last, you know, 15, 20 years that there’s just more and more people that are just choosing to do it themselves, right? Instead of just taking the job.

And then at the, at the same time, the job market is getting wonky. Is that a good word for it? Right?

Jon Ostenson: Well, all I know is I read the Wall Street Journal every day, and I see headlines around AI and workforce reductions or impacts and changes, and [00:02:00] I have so many people reaching out saying, "Hey, either my job’s gonna be impacted, or I’m afraid it’s gonna be impacted, or I’m being asked to do more with less, or I’m being asked to learn all these new technologies."

And they’re saying, "I want understandable cash flowing businesses, things that aren’t going out of style, that are not gonna be disrupted by AI." Um, those are con- the conversations we’re having frequently

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I think the days of just, um, uh, relying on, you know, one employer for the rest of your life, I mean, those have been gone for years now, right? But I mean, I think it takes time for the mindset to just change about that and, and recognize that, you know, the, the safe job is, is, is a thing of the past now, and it’s a little bit…

You know, for people like me and probably you, it’s empowering. I, I, I think having, like, control is, is what I wanted in the first place. It’s why I’m, I’m self-employed in the first place, is to have that control. But, um, but it is scary, like, as you said, and there are a lot of pitfalls that you could fall into, and we do like to talk about some of the mistakes, so I’m wondering, can [00:03:00] you share with me a bad note?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. Well, I once had a company that did not succeed. Um, when I left the corporate world, you know, I, I did start a company. It was a marketing agency and a call center all under one roof, and we served franchises and franchisees. And, and candidly, we became too customized and ended up not having the best processes, and we were kind of learning on the fly as we went.

Had a lot of fun during the process. We built it up. We were about thirty-five employees. Uh, I had a partner on the business with me and, um, you know, was very proud of it. But end of the day, it wasn’t profitable. We were barely break even, and we were putting a ton of effort into it. So I saw the writing on the wall.

I kicked the can down the road for a little while, but eventually I had to pull the trigger on, uh, on the business. And, uh, you know, that was a humbling experience, right? You know, didn’t have a big, sexy exit. Instead, it was really stepping back and, you know, finding homes for our employees, finding homes for our clients.

Very proud of how we handled it, but it was a difficult situation. It was a tough season to be in. But that experience gave me all the more appreciation for the franchise model because here I’m trying to build something on the fly, whereas [00:04:00] with the franchises, you’ve got a proven operating system. You know, it’s been proven out in other markets.

You’ve got a sea of other franchise owners living the same thing day in, day in, day out. There’s just so many benefits to being in business for yourself but not by yourself, and it de-risked the situation a lot. So, um, it was a negative at the moment, but it led to a much more positive, uh, kind of long-term tr-trajectory

Tim Melanson: Wow. So to customize, I’d like to dig into that a little bit ’cause, uh, I’ve definitely, I think I know what you mean by that, right? Well, but what do you mean by that?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, to build a business, you’ve got to have margin, right? And oftentimes you can get that through streamlining and efficiencies, right? Uh, you’ve got to have… But what, where we became too custom was we were doing something a little different for each of our clients, even within a franchise system where we should have been treating them all fairly equal.

Um, you know, answering their phone calls, how we answer those calls, how we customize the marketing in their area. Whereas if we’d kind of stuck to the script, we would have been a lot more efficient. Our clients probably would have been better because they’re not the subject matter experts on all this feedback they were giving us.

[00:05:00] Um, a- and so yeah, big lesson learned that, you know, e- e- either you’ve got to be willing to charge for becoming very custom can’t have a low price and be custom, um, or spread yourself too thin and not have the resources to fulfill the business

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think that can apply to so many businesses, especially service businesses. And it’s tough because, you know, in the very beginning when you’re, you know, looking for those initial clients, you, you sort of take anything you can get, right? Um, but I think what probably we should be doing in those circumstances is learning which clients we’re best at serving, and then try to figure out how to, like, package up that product or that service into something that is really, um, predictable, right?

Jon Ostenson: 100%. No, even if you have like a service-based business, let’s say it’s truck-based, you know, you wanna keep those routes tight. Well, or else there’s gonna be inefficiencies. Uh, well, therefore, you wanna market in a couple of zip codes instead of spreading [00:06:00] yourself too thin at the beginning, right? And so, uh, a lot of lessons learned, but those are lessons I’m able to pass on to our clients today

Tim Melanson: Well, and speaking of which, so how did you learn all this stuff? Like, do you hire coaches? Like, how, how did you get into those, or did you already know, right? H- how did you get there?

Jon Ostenson: Well, again, I spent many years in the corporate world, so there are definitely skill sets that I brought over. However, I, I never learned how to be an entrepreneur until I was an entrepreneur. And, uh, some of the resources that really helped me, I have had several business coaches over the years, Jack Daly being one.

He’s a pretty well-known guy out there. Paid a lot for him, but it was worth it. Um, you know, so I learned from experts, but also learned from peers, and I’d say that was a huge im- part of my growth in learning how to be an entrepreneur. Uh, one organization as an example, EO, the Entrepreneurs’ Organization.

It’s a big global organization. Here in Atlanta where I am, we have about 175 members. You have to do at least a million a year in revenue, and then they’ve got kind of a JV program, 250,000, I think is the threshold there. But, you know, we were in forums where every month I’d meet with [00:07:00] seven others, and we would go deep in our businesses and kind of serve as a board of directors.

I learned so much from these other folks that were in different industries, different backgrounds. Um, and part of it was entrepreneurship 101. So that really helped me on my journey to not have to make every mistake myself, though I did make plenty of mistakes. Um, you know, and I tell my kids this all the time, "It’s okay to make mistakes.

Let’s just try not to make the same obvious mistake twice."

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Yeah. Well, I think the, the, I mean, the, the analogy or the joke that I say all the time is that when we start our business, oftentimes we start because we’re, you know, we’re good at this thing, right? But then we find out really quickly that probably 80% of running the business has nothing to do with that thing, right?

It’s all the other stuff. And so I, I like what you’re saying because, you know, if you go and you meet other entrepreneurs, even if they’re in a totally different industry, there is a lot of overlap, maybe even 80% overlap of things that they’re dealing with as well. It’s just that specific service or a product that they offer that’s different.

But other than that, the, the principles of running a [00:08:00] business tend to be very similar, right?

Jon Ostenson: They are. And I think you have to be wise in saying, what do you wanna take from others and what do you want to leave behind? You know, where I live, most of the people I sur- surround myself with are business owners that are building very large businesses that are gonna have big exits on one day, and that’s kinda what you’re taught, right?

You add head count, scale up, you know, make it as big as you can. For me, with my consulting practice, I have purs- purposefully chosen to keep it at a certain size because I don’t wanna add the head count. I’ve been there. I’ve had a 35-person company before. And right now, I challenge myself to find efficiencies, find better ways of doing things so I can serve more clients without having, adding head, head count on my end, because my desire is to be customer/client-focused.

You know, I wanna be strategic. I don’t wanna manage a large team. So it’s neat when you reach that point in your career when you say, "Hey, here’s what I’m good at. Here’s what I enjoy doing. Here’s what, what I want my every day to look like."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I think that that’s a probably like a, a cultural or maybe like [00:09:00] a, you know, programming that your business always has to grow. It has to keep growing. Every year it has to keep going, right? And that’s not necessarily true. You can kind of keep it at a size for a long time and still be happy, right?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. For me, the business cash flows well. I’ve got the consulting business, then I’ve got an investment business, and on the investment side, that’s where I get a… You know, as I’m able to fuel the cash flow into the investments, you know, whether it be real estate, whether it be franchises that I invest in, um, whether it be private credit, private equity, a lot of different asset classes that I invest in, that creates the passive cash flow, right?

So that, that’s expanding. So that’s where I’m getting the growth rather than headcount directly to the bottom line in my consulting practice

Tim Melanson: I have the same strategy. And i- it’s, it’s taken so long to get to that point , right? Where, where, uh, you know, and, and, uh, I think that, um, you know, the, the, the really wealthy employees even, that- they’re- that’s how they do it, right? They use their main income, even though their main income might not be expanding and tripling every year, it’s staying [00:10:00] pretty stable, but they’re taking that and using that money, you know, instead of spending it on, you know anything.

They’ll use that money wisely and, and, uh, a business owner can do the same thing, only the difference is that there’s a lot more flexibility in running a business, but also a lot more risks, too, right?

Jon Ostenson: There is, though I, I would argue that working for someone else is risky, kind of like we talked about in the

Tim Melanson: It is

Jon Ostenson: here. I- it is. And so, now, we have a lot of people reach out to us, probably half of our clients get into businesses where they still have a W-2 or they’re a current business owner of another company and they’re saying, "I wanna diversify.

I want to expand. I want the tax benefits that come through business ownership," right? The government incentivizes people to be business owners. It just opens up the tax playbook. And they want their efforts to not only go towards cash flow, but they wanna build an asset that they can sell one day. So I, I give a talk oftentimes called Franchising as an Asset Class, and so we, as we think about the different things you can invest in, business ownership is one of those, and I believe that franchising makes it much more doable and de-risk the situation in a lot of [00:11:00] cases for people

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So now let’s get into a little bit of the practice side of it, ’cause, uh, I mean, that can mean a lot of different things, right? Um, you know, there’s business practices. There’s also personal practices I imagine too. Like, do you have any of those?

Jon Ostenson: Any personal practices, I’m sorry

Tim Melanson: Things that you do every day, routines, things that make your life s- consistent, we’ll say

Jon Ostenson: Absolutely. No, I, I view everything through five domains, five lenses, if you will. And this is my annual goal setting, my quarterly goal setting, even how I evaluate my day. I call it the five F framework. For me, it’s, it’s faith, family, and friendships, um, fitness, finances, and then, uh, uh, franchising. So for some people that’d be business, for me it’s franchising.

So those five Fs, I mean, that’s how I think about my day. Was I balanced today? Did I move the ball forward? What categories do I need to get more focus on that I didn’t move the ball forward in today? Um, so that’s the framework that I operate through. And as I go about my day, [00:12:00] you know, trying to hit those, you know, working out with a trainer.

I was with a trainer this morning and, um, you know, we’ll do some recovery later today. Fitness is incredibly important to me. You know, starting my day on the faith side. Um, you know, making sure I carve out good family time. You know, and then I’m in a place now where the franchising, it’s not a 40-hour workweek, right?

It, it is less and, um, you know, but there are times that I push really hard. There are times I’m in the office at 6:00 AM. There are other days that, you know, I take the day off. My family and I go on multiple international trips every year. There are things that you can do as a business owner, um, that you might not be able to do as a W2.

I don’t have to ask anyone for permission to do that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. Man, that’s a lot of, uh, positive Fs

Jon Ostenson: That’s right. And, and I oftentimes joke that w- when I say the F word franchise, people think of fast food like Subway, McDonald’s, but, uh, you know, there’s so many categories

Tim Melanson: Yeah, there’s a lot of different types of franchises. It’s not just the fast food ones, and I think that, um, I think that that might be what people think of when they think of a [00:13:00] franchise. They only think of franchi- of, uh, fast food franchises, but there’s a lot, right?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, and we’re seeing… We’ve got nothing against the food guys. We need them, but there’s a reason why I wrote the book Non-Food Franchising, which I’m happy to share with all of your listeners. There’s so many industries that you don’t have on your bingo card when you hear the word franchise. You know, things like home and property services, you know, health and wellness, categories like seniors, which is a huge one today, or, or kids, pets, different B2B type services.

And we can te- definitely take it down a level. I’m happy to give examples behind each of these. Um, but 90% of those that we work with, Tim, when they come to us and say, "Hey, we wanna be a business owner, or we don’t know where to start. We understand franchising a little bit, but we don’t know what industry to go into," I expose them to the top dozen or so opportunities in their market, hitting on different categories.

90% of the time, they end up in an industry that was never even on their radar, so it’s so much fun to expose them to what’s out there

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, uh, I, I think that one of the other things that you get from these [00:14:00] franchise models is just the mentorship and, and, and the, the systems that have been worked before. So it might even be a really good way to, like, bridge the gap between being an employee and being an entrepreneur. Maybe it’s like a stepping stone to doing something that maybe you’ve always wanted to do, right?

Jon Ostenson: I think that’s very well said. I oftentimes joke that training wheels are, you know, resemble franchises, um, in that you’re in business for yourself but not by yourself, to be cliche. You do have that franchisor and their team supporting you or that operator that you put in place. That’s why that semi-passive, I like to call it semi-involved model, is doable.

You have to have a good operator, but they can be supported by the franchisor. So now you’ve got that side, but you also, oftentimes this gets overlooked, you’ve got all these other franchise owners all across North America that are living the same thing day in, day out as you. You’re learning from each other, exchanging best practices.

Um, and so you have this community or mastermind, if you will, um, th- that’s incredibly valuable

Tim Melanson: Okay. What about the, uh, the cash flow of the [00:15:00] business? How do we… ‘Cause I, I, I understand that, you know, some of these franchises may cost a fair bit of money as well. How do you make sure that you’re gonna make your money back?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, absolutely. So every franchise you go into, uh, they’ve got what’s called an FDD, a franchise disclosure document. That’s got the historical financial results. So nothing’s ever a given, right? But at least you have some really good actual data that you’re able to utilize when you build out your pro forma and think about the business.

Uh, your item seven’s where it shows your all-in investment range. Your item nineteen is your, you know, potential, uh, revenue and profit based on others. You also get to talk to other franchisees before you ever buy, so you can hear about their experience and their numbers. Um, so no, you know, you want to plan wisely.

You know, if you’re going to use a loan like an SBA loan, it’s very common to use to purchase the franchise. You know, you need to factor in that debt service into your expense categories. You know, there are franchises where you can be profitable day one, literally, because you have low overhead and the marketing’s been turned on.

There are others, you know, that may take a little bit longer. I’d say on average, you’re probably looking at around six months, six to nine months. I always [00:16:00] encourage clients to, "Hey, let’s be a little more conservative. Let’s assume it takes a full year," right? But what does that run rate look like as you build up to that year?

Um, a-and so, you know, we encourage clients to go in conservatively, have that extra cash or that line of credit that you can tap into. Um, you know, partnerships are incredibly common as well, where maybe someone’s a capital partner, someone’s an operating partner. Um, but a lot of different ways to fund it.

Another way is a retirement rollover. It’s what’s called the ROBS program. A lot of people aren’t aware of that, but that’s a common way to fund a purchase

Tim Melanson: Wow. Now, I, I mean, I, I have, I have a lot of people on the podcast that have different, uh, you know, aspects of the bad note of things that don’t go as planned. But there tends to be some common mistakes that people will make, and, um, a- I’m thinking in the franchise model or versus, like, a, a regular traditional business.

Like, if someone’s thinking about starting a business, a lot of times we’re thinking about it from the perspective of we wanna do it our own way. You know, we wanna, we wanna have our own, our own thing, right? And we don’t wanna [00:17:00] be following r- uh, rules anymore from some employer. But the franchise model, on the other hand, you do have to follow these rules in order to be successful.

Now, do you find that there’s a lot of, like, resistance to following the, the, the, you know, the proven rules that are obviously working for other people?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, it’s a good point. Not everyone’s meant to be a franchisee, right? There are some people that are too entrepreneurial, I might say. You know, they wanna put their thumbprints all over everything, right? And, and they would not be good franchise owners. I do believe it’s a better model of business ownership for most people out there, again, because you have that training wheels, you’ve got the system, you’ve got the product market fit that’s been established.

I can go on and on. You know, technology stack day one, the marketing optimized data day one. Uh, I’ll stop there. But no, what I found is there are individuals that… It, it usually gets… comes out during the discovery process, and I have to tell them, "Hey, I don’t think fra-" or they come to the conclusion on their own franchising may not be right for them.

Tim Melanson: Right

Jon Ostenson: What’s interesting, Tim, a lot of existing bu- business owners come to us and wanna buy a franchise. [00:18:00] Some of them, it’s not a good fit. A lot of them, it’s a really good fit because they say, "I appreciate all the hard work that’s gone in because I’ve been there myself before. I’d rather not recreate the wheel.

I’m ready to just go execute. I’ve got this young employee I wanna put in place, let him go run with it and make us proud." Um, you know, a couple of years back, I had… It was a gutter franchise, about a six billion dollar industry, gutter installation. Placed nine clients with that franchise system. It was, uh, great financials, great model.

One of them went out of business, whereas others were thriving. Some even did a million dollars in their very first year in revenue. One of them went out of business. I called the franchisor. I said, "What happened here?" He said, "John, he wasn’t willing to follow the system. We did everything we could. We coached him.

We flew into his territory. Um, end of the day, he thought he was the smartest guy in the room and just wasn’t willing to follow the system." And so, you know, I think back, I was president of a large national franchise system or international with candles, uh, in the US, Shelf Genie. In that franchise system, our top performers were the [00:19:00] ones that were halfway decent with people, they worked hard, and they were willing to follow the system.

So it does take some humility, um, but that was a great question.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, and I, I think that, you know, it is possible that someone could have a better idea, right? I mean, that does exist. Someone created it in the first place. But on the other

Jon Ostenson: totally. Yeah. No, and innovation bubbles up from the franchisees usually

Tim Melanson: Right. Uh, well, and there you go. I was just gonna say that, ’cause I imagine there’s probably a path where you can sort of, like, maybe share that idea and maybe get some improvements in the fin- in, in the way that the franchise r- runs, right?

Jon Ostenson: Oh, 100%. Franchisees are always gonna share their opinions and, uh, you know, but oftentimes that’s where the best ideas come from, ’cause they’re living it day in, day out on the front lines. Um, yeah, I, I mean, I could rattle off examples that they come to mind, but yeah, a good franchisor is going to take that feedback.

They’re going to want to innovate. If it works for this franchisee, hey, let’s roll it out to the whole system and, and institutionalize it. So, um, no, that is a benefit that you have of being a part of a franchise system is that other people are [00:20:00] trying different things. You know, they’re not taking the brand off the rails, you can’t do that, but they can try different things in their hiring or their marketing or what have you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, and, and I, I, I do think that that’s probably true a lot that when you build the business and you realize what’s involved in it, then you realize, "Okay, th- this is the reason why they do things this certain way." And I think, uh, that oftentimes what you might encounter is, you know, especially when if you’ve been working a job for a long time, you’re just like, "Oh, I just hate the way that they have to do that," right?

And you just wanna do it a different way. But oftentimes there’s a reason why they do it in the first place, right? And sometimes there’s not. Sometimes it is just extra work for no reason. But it’s probably pretty rare, ’cause even in these large, large companies that you’re an employee of, I mean, they’ve got these systems in place for a reason, right?

It’s, it’s usually not random, right?

Jon Ostenson: Uh, when you talk about big companies, I mean, s- uh, sometimes there’s a rhyme or reason, sometimes there’s not, right? So I’m having ghosts from my past all of a sudden [00:21:00] flood my mind with, uh, why did we do this back in the day? But, um, no, I, I’d say within franchising, there’s a healthy checks and balance, right?

I- if the franchisor is saying, "Hey, we wanna do things this way," and fran- multiple franchisees are saying, "No, you’re better off another way," they’re gonna speak their minds

Tim Melanson: Well, and, uh, you know what? Uh, you know, on that topic, and I’m just thinking that it might be possible that the company is so big and there’s so many people that, you know, based on the system that you’re talking about, you’re trying to kind of systemize everything, put everything in the same little box.

Well, now you’ve got too many different people fitting in a little box, right? So it may not be the right thing to do, but it is if the company is that big, which is probably a, a, you know, a good selling point for, you know, maybe keeping a business a, a little bit smaller. Because the smaller you are, the leaner you can be, the more maybe custom, I guess, you can be.

Does that make sense?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, and everyone’s got a different end goal, right? I- and their why behind why they’re doing what they’re doing. I mean, I’ve got clients… Uh, I’ve got one that does close to 50 million a year in revenue. Over time, he’s acquired other franchisees in the [00:22:00] system, built up this large empire. I’ve got others that say, "Hey, I’m happy with the lifestyle business where I can, you know, work remotely and, um, you know, work from the beach, and work the days I want to and not the other days," you know, different con- consulting type gigs, uh, within franchising.

Um, I’ve got others that say, "Hey, I wanna have a large team and nurture them and build a culture." Others say, "Hey, I’d rather be a one-man show." A- and so there’s something just about for everyone, and it’s so much fun to kind of pull the, um, pull the curtain back and expose people to the types of businesses.

And I’ll just rattle off a few, Tim, uh, just off the top of my head here. So this is what gets people leaning in. You know, so home and property services, it’s everything from, you know, restoration to dumpsters, to artificial turf, to pool cleaning, to cabinets. Um, you know, businesses in health and wellness like hormone replacement, recovery modalities.

Uh, you know, in the senior world, you know, in-home care, but also businesses that provide wheelchair ramps and stair lifts and r- retrofitting mobility solutions, allowing people to age in place. Um, you know, i- in the kids space, it’s [00:23:00] everything from youth soccer to teen driving schools to, you know, you’ve got pet grooming out there, um, pet boarding.

And then in the B2B services, it’s different types of consulting like cost reduction consulting or insurance adjusting or freight brokerage or really cool one that we’re working with right now, it’s a big fuel truck. It can carry 200 gallons of, uh, uh, fuel and go around and gas up fleets of vehicles to reduce the downtime that those companies have.

It’s… Some of the ones I’m invested in, I’ve got an asphalt paving and line striping business, so parking lots. I’ve got another one that provides temporary containment walls around renovation projects. So again, things when I say franchise that you would never think of, right?

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, yeah, there’s something for everybody, and when you start a business, if you get really good at creating those systems, you can franchise it. Is, is that, like, is that a thing too? Like, uh, you know, when you… I- if you have a successful business, can you turn that into a franchise?

Jon Ostenson: Very oftentimes. I mean, there are some that aren’t replicable for whatever reason, but many times it’s a path that I consider founders to [00:24:00] consider, right? It could be a good growth opportunity where you have vested interest. You know, people are putting their own money in the game, they’re gonna run the business like they own it, right?

You always want employees to run it like they own it. Um, so no, I’ve got some great partners that take companies through that process. I’m always happy to chat with any, any of them and give them some feedback and some thoughts on, you know, whether or not I think their business would make sense to franchise.

But no, it can definitely be a good path to scale, and private equity loves, loves, loves the franchise model. So, you know, when you think about an exit one day, um, it could be a great model

Tim Melanson: Okay. So there’s exiting from your franchise, and there’s also exiting from your regular business that you could turn into a franchise.

Jon Ostenson: Exactly. Exactly

Tim Melanson: cool. So let’s, uh, I mean, let’s get into that a little bit more. We can get right into your guest solo. So what’s exciting in your business right now?

Jon Ostenson: Gosh, there’s so many unique business models that are coming down the chute, and I mean, we’re seeing more interest than we’ve ever seen in franchising, I think for a variety of reasons. You know, I think shows like yours, you know, it’s getting people excited about the idea, and, you know, we’re helping them connect the dots.

[00:25:00] And, you know, Tim, what’s neat about our model, it’s entirely free to work with us. You know, I’m essentially a real estate broker, but for franchises, and so we simply get referral fees on the back end. None of those are passed on to our clients, and, you know, we, we’re part of the largest group out there. We work with over 600 different franchise brands, um, uh, that are looking to expand, and, um, I just love exposing people to these.

So I’m having a lot of fun, um, love educating, love taking clients through the process. I get my validation when they come back to me and they buy additional brands or additional locations, or they refer their brother to me. Um, that’s what really gets me going and, um, excited about the franchises that I own and the ones that I’m helping other clients step into

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s, that’s awesome. So now when… How does the process look like when I, I, if I wanna work with you then?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah. Reach out to us. Come to franbridgeconsulting.com, F-R-A-N bridgeconsulting.com. Share your email address. Uh, you’ll immediately be able to download our book, Non-Food Franchising. Uh, but then my assistant will reach out to you once she gets your [00:26:00] email, and I give you a link to my calendar. So, you know, if you’d like to take the next step and jump on a call, you’ll be happy to, you know, talk through franchising with you and, and through…

talk about your background and what could be a fit. And then, uh, I’d come back to you and expose you to, you know, the top opportunities that I see in your market for you. And, um, you know, from there, you know, talk to the franchisors that you want to. We kind of support you throughout the journey and, um, you know, ultimately, if you move forward, you know, we’ll, we’ll celebrate with you.

But, you know, we’ve got all the funding resources. We have franchise attorneys that can review the agreements. Uh, we’ve got, um, kind of a one-stop shop for those interested in franchising

Tim Melanson: Wow. Is there a type of person or maybe a type of background that tends to get really good success in, in, in this?

Jon Ostenson: I think someone, you know, that has that humility, that’s willing to follow the system. You know, i- we love military veterans. They, uh, you know, they’ve been following systems. It’s all about executing, right? Um, you know, I, I love… I mean, so many… That’s one of the things that made me fall in love with the franchise model is just the diversity of backgrounds that can come together under a shared system of [00:27:00] support and, you know, fulfill their dreams to become business owners.

And, you know, I always say, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? I ne- I get excited about this. I never wanna sugarcoat it. It still takes work. There’s a reason why the government incentivizes you in the tax code. There’s a reason why not everyone’s doing it, but franchising makes it much more doable and, um, you know, you get to work for yourself instead of someone else.

So, um, you know, I’d say those that have a willingness to work hard, that are, um, you know, halfway decent with people and willing to follow a system, that’s all it takes. And b-

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, no matter what happens, you gotta go to work . And that’s, you know, not necessarily easy for anybody. So, you know, what, what’s the difference, right? You’re gonna struggle either way you go, so why not have a little bit more, uh, freedom in the path that you wanna take, right? And then on the other hand, I mean, as you said, you know, in the franchise model, and, you know, technically even in, in entrepreneurship in general, there’s so many [00:28:00] people out there that wanna help, right?

And so there, y- you know, if you’ve got that humility and you’ve got that ability to wanna, like, listen and follow some instruction, then you can get some really great success, you know, taking your own path, right?

Jon Ostenson: And I encourage people to think about what’s right for the next season. Whatever you do next probably won’t be the only thing you ever do. If you get into a franchise, you can still start a business, you can still buy an existing business. You– But you’re also gonna get a chance maybe to buy other franchisees over time when they look to sell within that system.

You get first look at all of those, right? So that internal M&A could be another path to scale. You can come back to me, and I’ll introduce you to other franchises, right? You can always scale up with complementary or diversifying, uh, franchises. So, uh, y- you have a lot of optionality. And what I love about franchising, it allows you to get in the game.

You know, too many people are sitting on the sidelines today talking about business ownership, and maybe they’re having calls with some existing business owners. They’re consuming a lot of content. Franchising allows you to actually get in the game, start building, get that platform that gives you the [00:29:00] optionality to expand in different directions in the future

Tim Melanson: Love that. So how do we find out more?

Jon Ostenson: Yeah, come out to our website, friendbridgeconsulting.com.

Uh, you know, immediately you’ll get a copy of our book and a downloadable copy. If you’d rather buy it on Amazon, all the proceeds go to Hope International, a great nonprofit that we support. Uh, but no, when you share your email address, again, my assistant will reach out, uh, with a link to my calendar, and, uh, would love to serve any of your, uh, listeners

Tim Melanson: Awesome. John, let’s get into music a little bit. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Jon Ostenson: Uh, Bon Jovi

Tim Melanson: Ah, nice. Livin’ on a Prayer.

Jon Ostenson: Live and entrepreneur. That’s exactly right

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Have you ever seen them in concert?

Jon Ostenson: Have not seen them in concert, no. Um, you know, I, I probably attended a lot more sporting events than concerts over the years, but I do have an appreciation for music

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Right on. Well, thank you so much, John, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Jon Ostenson: Hey, appreciate you having me. Thanks, Tim

Tim Melanson: No problem. To the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. I’m very excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to a coach and fou- and founder of Inspired Stewardship, and what he does is he helps people to master their time, their talent, and their treasures so they can live out their calling.

So I’m really excited to be rocking out today with Scott Maderer. Hey, Scott, are you ready to rock?

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. Let’s go

Tim Melanson: Awesome. So we always start off here on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Scott Maderer: You know, I’ve been working from home since 2017. I’ve run my own business full time since 2017. And for me, the biggest successes that I’ve had across all of those years, and, and we can get more into the history and how I got there later, but is when I have those moments that I’m working with a client, I’m working with, uh, uh, somebody, and their life clicks in a way that makes the light [00:01:00] bulbs go on, and you can see it.

It- it’s those moments … I’ve looked at … Actually, last night, I had a, a client last night, a client couple, that they’re- they’re dealing with some money situations, you know, ch- job change recently, this, that, and the other thing. They’ve got a lot going on in their life. But what we talked about and what ended up clicking was on, you know, communication, and how do you make sure that you’re on the same page?

And, and it’s one of those things where he had done one thing and, and she was kind of mad about it, but the percep- It wasn’t really the reality. In other words, you know, the reason why he did it was a good reason, and the reason why she was worried was a good reason, but neither one of them was really hearing the other.

And so even though we’re talking about money, and it was a money-related coaching moment, it was like, "Oh, wait, we were just talking past each other," you know? And- and what actually helped is it helped the marriage, it helped the communication, it helped all of that stuff. So for me, all of my [00:02:00] good moments revolve around when I get to see things go past the tactical into the things that really change people’s lives i- in a, in a good way.

And so last night was a great example of one of those moments.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Isn’t that interesting that it, it, often the problem is not the problem, right? There’s

Scott Maderer: Almost never is the problem the problem.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, we have this sort of, like, masking ability of, like, going, "I don’t really wanna talk about the actual problem, so I’m gonna talk about this one instead," right?

Scott Maderer: Well, and it’s, it’s, it’s not even… It’s, it’s that, that’s absolutely part of it, but it’s also a lot of times we’re very unaware of our underlying choices that then reflect in results. You know? I- people talk about behavior y- and belief versus action, and, you know, which comes first, right? Belief or action?

And my answer to that question is always yes, because it’s a feedback loop. You know, what [00:03:00] happens is you begin to see the world a certain way, so therefore you act in a certain way, which then causes that to come back at you. You know? It, and it, it reinforces it. And that could be a positive experience, that could be a negative experience.

It’s not, this isn’t a value judgment. This isn’t a, that makes you a good person or a bad person or anything. It’s just literally how we see the world. It’s how our brain works. And when you realize that, you can’t ever see the label to the bottle that you’re in because you’re in the bottle, and the label’s on the outside.

You know? And, and this is where working with coaches and working with other people can be so valuable because, you know, I’m outside of the bottle. And so I’m out here going, "Well, the label says this," you know? And, and you’re in the bottle going, "I can’t read it." And it’s like, well yeah, of course not, ’cause you’re in there.

You’re, you’re inside your own limiting beliefs, your own biases, your own worldview, your own [00:04:00] history, your own whatever that’s created the situation that you’re in. It sometimes does take talking to somebody. It could be a good friend, it could be, you know, a spouse, it could be a coach, it could be a mentor or mastermind group, whatever.

Talking to those people that are kind of outside of the bottle, outside of the situation that can look at it and go, "Well, I can read it. This is what it says." You know? "It’s really obvious to me." You know, and you’re in the middle going, "It’s not obvious at all."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, and, uh, I mean, that’s why you need a wingman, right? That’s the whole

Scott Maderer: Yeah, you need somebody

Tim Melanson: So now sometimes things don’t go as planned though, right? And I know that it’s… I mean, the fear of failure is what keeps so many people from doing what it is that they really wanna be doing, right?

And so I like to talk about it on this show and get it out there and go, "Hey, listen. Look, we’ve made some mistakes, and here, we’re still here. Things are still going," right? So I’m wondering, can you share with me something, like a bad don- something that didn’t go as planned, and how you recovered from that?[00:05:00]

Scott Maderer: Uh, sure. Um, i- it’s kind of one of those I’ve got a list of those, right? Um, so I, I could go back in time to where I first started the business, but I’ll let, let me, let me give you something a little bit more recent just so it’s relevant to… ‘Cause people sometimes think, "Oh, you’ve been doing this for a long time.

You must not have any problems now." And it’s like, what are you talking about? I woke up yesterday. Of course I’ve got problems. Um, so one of our, one of the things that’s changed for my wife and I recently is we relocated. So we used to live kind of outside of San To- San Antonio, out in the middle of nowhere, and now we’ve located up to, uh, Bryan-College Station, Texas area, and we’re kind of more in a big community and, you know, kind of now more in the center of things than we used to be.

We used to be, like, two hours from the closest Walmart, Starbucks or McDonald’s, and now we’re, like, 15 minutes from four of those, you know, that kind of thing. So it’s, it’s really been a big change for us personally and, and it’s created some, you know, financial change, it’s created relational [00:06:00] change. We’ve moved to a different area of the country.

You know, we left people that we knew and friends, and we’d lived there for 26 years. So even though my business is portable and I can do it anywhere I have the internet, and I’ve done it anywhere I have the internet, it still affected my business. My, my personal life and having to uproot things and change things and repack things and rebuild networks.

So for instance, you’re working from home, finding ways to socialize and connect with people outside of my home, not just through a screen, you know, is important. Well, I left some of those connections, and so I’m having to create new ones and, and rebuild it. And so it doesn’t sound like a business problem at first.

People are like, "Well, isn’t that your personal life?" It’s like, yeah, but your personal life and your business life are intimately connected. And I would say that’s true, truer when you work from home too because, you know, literally we had to… When we were looking for a house, we had to take into consideration, well, Scott works from home.

Can he work from [00:07:00] home at this house? You know? It, it, it affects all of those decisions. And so for us it was really challenging. Um, it was really hard. Uh, it- we’ve been here a little over a year, and I would say we’re just now kind of getting things rebuilt and reconnected. So for over a year it disrupted everything I was doing, not just in my business but in my, my personal life.

And, and, and again, it’s not because it was a bad thing per se, but it was definitely a bad note in that it, it, it changed the way… You know, we had a tune that was playing all in harmony, and then it’s like, oh, you gotta change the time and the tempo and, uh, whatever, right? You know, the signature of the notes, and completely uprooted, completely changed it and now we’re kind of getting back into tune, I would say finally.

But it’s taken, it’s taken a long time, and it’s taken really deliberate action and planning by my wife and I of what are we gonna do to make [00:08:00] sure that we, you know, we make new connections? What are we gonna do to make sure that the business is still stable? What are we gonna do to make sure that we can continue to do the things that we want to do and feel called to do, but also maintain, you know, throughout, throughout all of that disruption.

Uh, you know, just as simple as scheduling client calls and things can be a challenge through that kind of, through that kind of change and uproot- uprooting.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I think that this, uh, this topic is, is pretty relevant to someone who might be even considering to just start working from home, like right now, because that whole disruption, I mean, that’s a big challenge going from working a job and being pretty much told what to do to now being on your own at home with all those distractions.

And like you just said, I mean, s- you know, taking into account, you know, if you’re relocating, where your home office is gonna be. Well, m- m- some people [00:09:00] might not have the ability to even deal with that right now. They live where they live. So, you know, if they don’t have a dedicated office or something like that, what are they gonna do, right?

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

A- and a lot of times, uh, you know, I do talk about, especially if you’re working from home, it, it, it’s creating a dedicated space. That doesn’t necessarily have to be a home office. It’s beautiful if you can get that, and, you know, I would say I’ve been blessed with that and it really helps. But you still need to create a dedicated space.

So even if it’s literally there’s a seat at your kitchen table that you never sit in except when you’re working, you know what I mean? That’s my work seat , you know? It, it can be as simple as that to create it. But what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to create triggers for your brain that when I’m in this place with this environment, I’m working, you know?

Because you get that naturally when you go to the office. You drive into the office and it’s like, "Oh, I’m at work." You [00:10:00] don’t get that naturally when you’re working from home. And so I actually think it’s a mistake to … You know, yeah, it’s beautiful, and yes, sometimes you can work from the couch or whatever and do things, you know, in other places, and that’s fine, and I do that too.

But I still have a dedicated time and place and schedule, and I show up to work, you know, and I put on … I even literally will wear a different shirt or … Now, you know, we’re on a Zoom call. You below, I’m wearing shorts and you know, and, and, and comfy shoes. But, but, you know, I’m gonna put on a nice shirt and, uh, because I’m, I’m at work, you know?

And so it’s creating those mental triggers, uh, with space or with environment or with behavior that, that lets your brain go, "Oh, yeah, I’m at work now. This is, this is work time. This is work space. I need to be focused on that." I, I found that to be really helpful for myself, and I’ve worked with several clients making that transition over the years, and it really helps them as [00:11:00] well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. And when I started work from home, I didn’t have a whole lot of examples around me , right? It’s been quite a while now. Uh, however, if I were to look back, that would, that would’ve been something that I would definitely learn from because, I mean, I think, you know, 20 years in, okay, it’s not gonna really ruin my day if I work from the couch today

But when, when you’re, when you’re transitioning from a, from a job to a, to a business work from home, I, I think the more you can create this routine and, and this, uh, this new, you know, triggers for your brain, the easier that transition’s gonna be, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. It, it makes, it makes that transition easier. And, and again, it’s not a, like I said, it’s not about being, um, rigid about it where it’s like, oh, I can never work from the couch or whatever. But when I work from the couch, it’s more like, okay, I’m… It’s kinda like, uh, w- back when I worked corporate, you know, there would be days I got to work from home, [00:12:00] and they were always a little different than the days I got to work in the office.

You know, in terms of what I, my expectations were, my output was, my, you know, what, what meetings did I or not have, and that kind of thing. I kinda do the same thing. It’s like there, there’s, there’s kinds of work I can do on the back porch in the sunlight, you know, watching the chickens kinda thing, and then there’s other kinds of work that it’s like, no, that, that needs to be at the computer focused, intense, you know, at the right spot with, with the intention and the energy that it, it deserves.

So, but you don’t learn that until you do it, uh, if that makes sense. And that’s where I think the routines and the structure can help is then you kinda start to learn, oh yeah, this is work that I can, I can do in the afternoon or in the evening or do from the couch or, or whatever. That kind of, uh, less intense work for lack of a better, better word

Tim Melanson: Yeah, you know, you know that it’s work that you’re doing just on the side, right? I mean, you’re watching [00:13:00] TV, it’s a little bit distracted, but, you know, you’ve… There’s a couple things that you can just throw, like, you know, i- into whatever it is that you’re doing.

Scott Maderer: I can plow through some emails and just figure out whether I need to follow up on them tomorrow, and maybe I’m not even following up. I’m just flagging them and saying, "Yeah, I need to follow up on that one," or something. Yeah, I can do that while other stuff is going on. It’s not that big of a deal

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Now speaking about other influences, um, I’m wondering, like for you, do you hire coaches in your business, or do you have masterminds, or like w- where is it

Scott Maderer: A- all of the above.

Tim Melanson: Oh, you do?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I, I’ve been part of several masterminds over the years for different things. Uh, a- and always got benefit from ’em. E- uh, especially as a small business owner, being able to plug into groups where there’s other small business owners, especially if they’re in the same industry, but even if they’re not.

Um, if you’re working from home, same thing. Pe- there’s at least some people there that work from home, so you’ve [00:14:00] got that… I- it’s no longer, "I’m the only one doing this. I’m the weird one." You know, it’s kind of a, "Oh yeah, there’s other people that do this too. This isn’t as weird as everyone makes it out to be."

And I, you know, after COVID, I think working from home became a little less weird, but it’s still not that common, you know? And even running your own business and being an entrepreneur, you know, i- it’s sexy, and everyone likes to talk about it, but at the same time, there’s really not that many people doing it.

And so I’m part of a group called Coach Connections. We’re all financial coaches. We all work together. Uh, through that I’ve got masterminds, I’ve got, um, uh, i- individual coaches. I’ve hired individual coaches over the years. Uh, when I got started podcasting, as an example, I hired a podcast coach ’cause I’m going, "You know, I kinda know what a podcast is and how to do it, but why should I go beat my head against the wall for a year and a half not doing it well when I can hire somebody that’s great at it who can get me up to speed in a couple of months?"

You know, that kind of thing. So I’ve hired both for [00:15:00] specific situations like that, and then I’ve plugged into, you know, just general masterminds and coaches that help with business or particular challenges that I’m having, uh, over the years as well.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. So now, I… And now, when we spoke a little bit about this before the show even started, uh, but there’s a sort of a, a weird situation where I think some people when they’re thinking about a, a coach or when they’re thinking about somebody in that position, it’s like they’ve got their stuff all together and they’re perfect at what they do, and that’s why I’m hiring them, ’cause they’re the expert.

But in reality, everybody’s just people, and everybody has their strengths and their weaknesses. And like y- I like what you’d mentioned earlier, when you hire a coach, you’re like, "Okay, well, I’m hiring them for this specific thing because that’s their gift." But you wouldn’t necessarily go get other advice that they…

Like, i- it’s impossible for them to know everything, right?

Scott Maderer: Right, no. A- and, and really when you hire a coach, the goal, in [00:16:00] my opinion at least, a- and I’ll talk a little bit about the difference between coaching and consulting. You know, coaching has kind of become sexy where everyone wants to call themselves a coach even if they’re not actually coaching.

Tim Melanson: Yeah,

Scott Maderer: ‘Cause to me coaching, pure coaching in its purest form, and, and again, don’t hear this as a value statement.

I’m not saying this is better or worse. Everything has its value. But it’s, it’s when I’m coming in from outside of the situation and my job is to probe and to challenge and to ask questions to help raise the awareness of you, okay? In, in other words, I’m not there to provide a solution. I’m there to ask the right questions.

I’m there to challenge your thinking. I’m there … Now, all the way at the other end of this kind of continuum is consulting. Also very valuable in certain situations. This is when I have a specific problem and you have a [00:17:00] specific solution, and if I implement your specific solution, it will solve my specific problem Give you an example.

H- hiring someone to help me with Facebook ads, right? If I need somebody to help me with Facebook ads, I don’t want a coach. I don’t want someone to come in and go, "Well, Tim, what do you think about Fa-…" I want someone to tell me how to run the stupid ad , you know? It’s like… A- and again, that’s not because coaching’s bad or consulting’s bad or coach- coaching’s good and consulting’s good.

You know, it’s not the good or bad. It’s w- what am I trying to solve? But when it’s talking about things like when I was talking about whether I wanted to go into business for myself, when it’s talking about my career, when it’s talking about my family, when it’s talking about decisions I make around finances or my spiritual walk or those sorts of…

Those are very personal. I really don’t want Tim coming in and saying, "Well, Scott, here’s what you should do." You know? I, I, that’s not gonna be helpful to me. It doesn’t solve my problem. I need someone that can stand [00:18:00] beside me and go, "Okay, let’s, let’s think this through. What’s going on?" Now, truth is, usually, and this is definitely true for me, when I’m working with people with time or finances, there’s a little, there’s times that I’m consulting, and then there’s times that I’m taking that hat off and I’m putting on a coach hat, you know?

‘Cause usually I gotta put the coach hat on to actually get into diagnosis and figuring out what’s going on. But then I may get to a point where it’s like, "Ah, now I understand. You know what, Tim? I’ve got a tool that you can use and a simple… You know, this will help solve that problem. Now let’s implement that tool or that habit or that behavior or that way of thinking or that whatever it is."

But I’ve gotta wear the coaching hat long enough to find the right tool. If I come in as a coach and go, "I’ve got the one system that works for everybody," run, okay? That don’t, that doesn’t work , you know? And again, that doesn’t mean the coach is bad. It just means that’s really consulting. That’s no longer coaching.

And, and it could be valuable as long as you have the right [00:19:00] problem and that’s the right solution. But if, if not, it, it’s gonna frustrate you more than it’s gonna help you. A- and unfortunately, I’ve seen a lot of coaches… I, like I said, I think since coaching’s kind of become sexy, a lot of people call themselves a coach, and what they’re really doing is consulting or advising or i- mentoring or, you know.

And again, all of these are good, all of these are valuable, but they’re different things , you know? And don’t hire an advisor if you want a coach. By the same token, don’t hire a coach if you want an advisor. You know, that, that’s two different behaviors.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s, uh, maybe just the way to, to figure this out is figure out what you want and then, and then you can decide whether it’s a, yeah, whether it’s a consultant or a coach they want. Uh, but you mentioned finances a few minutes ago, and I’d like to get into that a little bit because running a business, especially in the very beginning, and I, I mean, all businesses are different.

Some have inventory, some don’t have inventory, some are service, some… You know, but, but in the, in the end, I mean, they all have to make money, right? [00:20:00] And I find that, that, you know, making sure that the, the cash flow is positive tends to be a, a really difficult thing that we’re not necessarily taught in our, in our, you know, high school classes or whatever it happens to be.

So I’m wondering, you know, do you have any, any insight on that, on how we can make sure that, that we’re, we’re always in the, in the positive?

Scott Maderer: You know, a lot of it is setting up the, again, we’re back to habits and systems, um, you know, the habits into the systems. So what I see happen a lot that burns people is two things. One is they treat revenue the same as profit, and I’ll define that in a second. And two is when they treat business and personable, personal as kind of…

They, they don’t separate them. And, and I don’t just mean a physical separation, I mean a mental separation, you know? That, that my business is my business and my home life is my home life And I don’t treat the business like a piggy bank, uh, but I [00:21:00] also don’t treat it like it’s just part of my normal routine.

You know, it, you separate them. Um, so with profit and revenue, what I’ve seen happen a lot of times, especially when we first start out, you get that first check, you know, from somebody. They, they paid you, I don’t know, $1,000, right, for whatever you did. You know, you’re a freelancer, you’re doing X, Y, Z, I don’t care.

You get that $1,000 check and you’re like, "I made $1,000." No you didn’t, you know? Because your business has expenses, and there’s stuff that your business has to pay for before that money can come home. I mean, odds are really good there’s something, you know? If nothing else, there’s this little thing called taxes, you know?

And, and guess what? You know, if you work in the US, Uncle Sam wants their cut, you know? And you… But they’re not gonna come for it for months, so it’s real easy to be like, "Oh, I can just, I’ll deal with that later." And, or, "The, the electric bill’s not due till later. I’ll deal with that later." And so you [00:22:00] treat revenue, which is that $1,000, the same as profit, which is what’s left after expenses, right?

That’s kind of the definition of profit. And so when you do that, you’re setting yourself up for failure from the very beginning.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Scott Maderer: And usually it leads to the second problem, which is you start treating your personal, and you may even have it all in one account, and sometimes your business pays a bill that maybe was really a personal bill, or sometimes you pay a bill for the business out of your personal account, and you just start, everything starts blending together until it’s like there’s no separation mentally, emotionally, financially between the two.

And that, again, always leads you towards problems, because you need to treat the business as its own business and, you know, I put on my business hat and I’m looking at my business finances. And guess what? That, that line item there that’s money going home to me, [00:23:00] that’s, I’m paying somebody, you know? I’m paying a 1099 or I’m paying an employee or I’m paying whatever, depending on how it’s set up, but I’m paying somebody.

And yes, it happens to be you, but as the business owner, you have to look at it just like that’s an employee or just a- another expense, and it just happens to be the money going home to your, your personal account. And then when you get on the personal side, you have to be able to look at that and go, "Okay, this is the money coming in and this is what I’ve got to spend, and what am I gonna do," you know, on my personal side, and not just immediately go, "Oh, the business can pay for it."

Uh, and I’ve seen so many people do that, and it always ends up in a bad place.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I’ve, uh, so I- I’ve gotten into tax trouble actually, really serious problems. And it- it’s- it’s pretty much exactly what you just said. Like, it’s like you get this big paycheck, and you’re like, it- it feels like a paycheck like when you were working, like, for a job. Only the difference is that you probably already know that the company takes money [00:24:00] off of that for you to put into taxes.

Y- they don’t do that when you get a check from a client.

Scott Maderer: you still end up having to write a check, you know? That’s the other thing, you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So, so it’s just, it’s just one of those things. But then the other thing that I, I have found, and, you know, m- maybe you’ve had a similar experience. So I’ve been self-employed for almost the entire time. It’s only since the beginning of 2025 that I actually incorporated my business and, and actually created an actual business business, and it’s so much cleaner, so much cleaner.

This whole separation between business and, and personal. Uh, but when you’re self-employed, everything’s all intermingling all the time, and including your taxes,

Scott Maderer: deliberate to separate it. Yeah. It, it’s… So if you’re a sole proprietorship, so there’s two– there’s business organization from a tax perspective, and then there’s business organization from a business licensing or structure perspective, [00:25:00] you know? And, and what’s interesting is we use exactly the same names, but they’re not the same.

So, you know, it, which is even more confusing for those of us that are s- coming into it. If you’re not a CPA, you don’t know all of this stuff. And again, I’m back to this is one of those times where a lot of times it’s good to hire somebody or, or work with somebody that knows. Or again, like my job sometimes as a coach is to be the quarterback and go, "Okay, I can’t solve that because I’m not a tax expert, but we need a tax expert for that.

Let’s go find one. Here’s the questions we need to ask. Here’s what you need to look for," that kind of thing. Because guess what? Not every CPA knows how to deal with home- work from home and small businesses. Um, and when you talk about incorporation… Uh, so are you a subchapter S?

Tim Melanson: Uh, I’m in Canada, so so we have all

Scott Maderer: okay.

Never mind. Different name. Uh, you know, same concept, but different name, yeah. Um, but yeah, in, in the US, um, we have LLCs, we have sole proprietorships LLCs, partnership LLCs, and then we have subchapter [00:26:00] Ses, which are technically still LLCs, and then we have C corps, right? But what it boils down to, that’s all just gobbledygook and, and it doesn’t matter.

You don’t need to know what all of that stuff is. The point is there comes a time where both organizational structure-wise, you may need to look at a different structure, and tax-wise, you may need a different structure. What I will say is I have– if you don’t have a good CPA, I have seen CPAs who encourage people to do it when it actually ends up being more expensive for them to do it that way, ’cause they can easily make the mistake that, oh, it, you know, we just need to…

‘Cause it makes their job easier. You know what I mean? And, and, and it’s like, so from their point of view, it’s like, "Hey, this’ll make my job easier. Let’s do it." And yet then it costs the, the, the person. So I will say it is one of those things where you do have to really understand and ask questions and work with people that know what’s going on and are good at what they [00:27:00] do and that you can trust.

And, you know, that again gets back to that, um, one of those times where I think it’s good if you have other business owners around you and other support staff or support people who can go, "Hey, let’s…" Don’t just make that as a knee-jerk decision. Let’s just put it that way. Spend some time and some energy on it.

Tim Melanson: No, yeah, exactly. But, but I mean, the, the bottom line I think is your initial point, which is do your best, like even if it’s in different spreadsheets or email accounts to, to have your, your personal

Scott Maderer: you have to create some separation. Yeah, absolutely. Um, mentally if nothing else

Tim Melanson: Yeah, absolutely. So it doesn’t necessarily ne- mean that you have to go incorporate, ’cause as you mentioned, there, there are some nuances with that, both in Canada and in, in the States, where you really should talk to somebody about that.

I know I did, right? And, and it, it took me… I mean, w- when I was even thinking about incorporating, it was, oh, it’s gotta be at least [00:28:00] six or seven or eight years between the time when I start, first started learning about it to when I actually did it. So I, I mean, it, it, it was just my business needed to be into a certain po- portion, or, um, I mean, um, uh, to get to a certain place before I was ready to move that.

And we were not gonna get

Scott Maderer: Yeah, sometimes there’s certain income y- limits before it makes sense. There’s all sorts of particulars, so that’s why, yeah, like you, I’m like, I’m not an expert of that. I’m not an expert. I’ve worked with clients in over 20 countries. There is no way I know this in 20 countries, you know? It’s like, I can’t,

Tim Melanson: But in all 20 countries, having a good clean separation between the two is always a good

Scott Maderer: in all 20 countries, the separation is the key. Absolutely

Tim Melanson: when you get to the point where it is time to, uh, to incorporate it, if, if you ever do, I mean, you might, might not, well, then having that separation’s gonna make it so much easier too.

Like, all of a sudden, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a simple [00:29:00] transition. At this point, you’ve already got your personal on your personal and your business on your business, right?

Scott Maderer: Not to mention, it, you know, it, it, just to be 100% transparent, it helps you as the business owner 100%, but what I will also say, not to be… It, it helps everyone around you. Um, whether that’s either, you know, in an estate situation, whether that’s, uh, helping your CPA, you know, or somebody like that, whether it’s helping…

You know, what happens if you get sick? You know, and that kind of th- It’s all of those things that we don’t like to think about, but especially, again, when you work for yourself, you need to think about all of that stuff, you know? Because it could happen. Um, you know, and, and it’s, yeah, it makes everything cleaner for, for you and for everybody around you

Tim Melanson: Well, and I, I, I know it ’cause I, I thought about that at one point, like what happens… Oh, let’s just say that you, like you say, you get sick or you, you get hurt or something like that, and now all of a sudden someone [00:30:00] m- running your business for you or helping you with your business is now going to be all in, up in your personal stuff because it’s all together, right?

Now they’re seeing your credit card statement, which has literally everything that you’ve bought personally, when if you just had two different credit cards, I mean, it doesn’t have to be a, a business credit card. It can be two different personal credit cards. One’s used for business, one’s used for personal.

That would create that separation so that if someone was helping you, they wouldn’t necessarily need to see what you bought personally anymore, right? Yeah.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. It, it, it could just be as … Yeah, so there’s, there’s, it, there’s so much … And again, to your point, there’s a lot of particulars, but the concept of … It really goes back to what I was saying at the beginning about you need a separate space that, you know, when I sit down at this space, this is my business.

It, it really comes back to that mental outlook of this is my business and I’m treating it like a business, and then when I go over here, this is my personal life and I’m treating it like my [00:31:00] personal life. You know? It’s that mental separation, that financial separation, separation in time, separation in, in what you do.

And again, the beauty is you can have a lot of flexibility and it can look very different than everybody else

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: because you’re creating it and you’re designing it. And that’s … Uh, the other piece I would put is be very intentional about how you design that and create that because I’ve seen people create a business that they hate because they just weren’t intentional about it and, and didn’t set it up.

You know, like I said, from day one I set my business up with the intent of I can do this from anywhere because that was important for me. That is a value for me. I want to be able to pick my business up … Because I knew even back then I may need to move up there one day and be a little closer to my mom to help take care of her as she’s getting older.

Uh, so I want a business that I could just pick up and go up there and be close to mom if I need to, you know, that kind of thing. That, those were values of mine and my wife, so we s- [00:32:00] we designed it from the very beginning.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I, I love that. Like, that, that’s the kind of thing that I, I think is really, uh, the big advantage of running your own business, of being your own boss and, and doing this, is that you have… It’s not that you’re not… I mean, you’re probably working more, right? I mean, we joke about that all the time, about you’re probably working more than you would as a, as a, an employee.

But having that flexibility and that ability to just design what it is you want, you’re more proactive in the way that you build your life rather than reactive based on what somebody else says they need from you. Right now, it’s more or less, you know, if, if you don’t do what you want, then someone else is gonna try to get you to do what they want, right?

Because you’re not intentional about your life, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and it, it, it’s this idea of, you know, and yes, actually, when you’re a W-2 employee, you have some things that you can do to help control your life and your input [00:33:00] and all of that. But to a very large extent, I like to tell people that when you’re a W-2 employee, you’re self-employed with one client,

Tim Melanson: Yes. Yep.

Scott Maderer: the company you work for,

Tim Melanson: Which is a good way to think about it

Scott Maderer: And if you think about it that way, it really does change the way you look at it because it’s kind of like, "Oh, wait a minute," you know? Because at the end of the day, you want a promotion, there’s things you need to do. You know, you want to get a raise, there’s things you need to do. You, you need to be a self-starter at some level, even in a company situation, if you want to change the situation,

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: okay?

And where now I’m self-employed with multiple clients, and in some ways that’s safer than being self-employed with one client. In other ways, it’s more challenging, you know? So it’s not really one is easy or one is good or one is bad, but for some of us, being self-employed gives us the ability to design a life and work from home and, [00:34:00] you know, spend time with our family or not…

You know, travel when we want to or do all sorts of things that would be much more difficult to do in a W-2 kind of work for somebody else kind of employee-employer situation. That being said, again, the key in both of those is creating a life you want is the intentionality piece. Because I, I think if you’re a passive WT employee, it stinks if, if…

You know, I’m using W-2 ’cause that’s the US term, but you, you get my point. You know, if you’re, if you’re working for somebody else and you’re passive about it, that’s much worse than when you’re working for someone else and you’re actively involved in your own career and growth. And then I think the same thing’s true for us as, as work from home folks or business owners, um, ’cause yeah, so often I’ve seen folks basically create a job instead of a business.

And it’s like, well, uh, that’s easy. I mean, I can create a job for [00:35:00] myself pretty easy, uh, and if I, if, if I don’t, my wife will, right? That’s the honey-do list, you know? But it’s, it’s much more difficult to intentionally create something that actually gives you more of the things that you want in life.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. So let’s get into your guest solo a little bit. Tell me what’s exciting in your business

Scott Maderer: Oh, boy. Um, I’ve started a lot of kind of new things. So I work as a one-on-one coach with a lot of folks. Like I mentioned earlier, I worked with over 1,000 clients in 20 countries. I do work international. I, and I love that work, but I’ve started doing more speaking and more actual kind of personal appearance sort of things.

I had a book published a couple of years ago called Inspired Living. I’ve been talking on that topic, uh, as well as disc and, and time and money. Uh, those are kind of the big buckets that I tend to talk on. So I’ve been doing a lot more speaking and a lot more training and kind of [00:36:00] workshops, going in and doing, um, employee wellness, uh, where I go into a small business that maybe has five, seven, 10 employees and do work with all of the employees.

And the business owner, you know, wants that because it’s an employee benefit. Plus, honestly, if your employees are better with money, they work better, um, because, you know, they’re not worried about Visa calling them. They’re, they’re actually focused on the job. So I, I’ve been going in and doing a lot more of that.

Um, so those are all things that are kind of exciting for me right now. Obviously, I always… My, my bread and butter and the thing I love more than anything else is the one-on-one coaching, working with folks to, to… When they basically find themselves saying, "I make too much money to feel this broke," or,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: "I’ve got all this time, but I’m busy.

I’m not actually doing the things that matter to me. I’m just busy doing the stuff that I have to do," those are the language triggers that usually tell me somebody could work with me as a coach, and we can get [00:37:00] that straightened out and, and get you feeling… It’s not necessarily that you’re making more money, but you’ll feel richer.

And it’s not necessarily that you have more time, but you’ll feel like you have the time to spend on the, the things that actually matter because you’re making different decisions. That, that’s always the, the most exciting thing for me.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And isn’t that so impactful? Uh, ’cause bec- I, I think a lot of people sort of think that the answer is something else. It’s, it’s like, uh, it’s somebody else’s problem, or it’s, I, if I just get a, this different job, everything would be good. Or if I had… Right? When,

Scott Maderer: Or if I could just download the right app, it would solve all my problems.

Tim Melanson: oftentimes, yeah, it’s just an accumulation of really small little decisions that you’re making in your own life that are accumulating up to big things that now you feel stuck, right?

And, and I, I love that you’re able to kinda like dig into that a little bit, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, yeah. Either way, um, y- where you’re at today is based on thousands and thousands and [00:38:00] thousands of decisions you’ve made over however long you’re alive, you know? Um, if, if you’re 40, 40 years. You know, if you’re, if you’re 90, 90 years. Whatever it is. And that also, though, the beauty of that is that means it’s also something that can change.

At any time you can begin to make different decisions. And will it fix everything overnight? Nope. Um, I ordered a magic wand. Unfortunately, it was from Temu, and it didn’t work, you know? It, it, it’s… It, I don’t have a magic wand, neither does anyone else, so it’s not gonna fix it overnight, but that’s not the point.

It will end up in a different place if you start making those different decisions and different actions and different behaviors and different habits and different… All of those things compound, and so it either compounds positively or it compounds negatively. It, it’s, it’s really like compound interest, right?

Compound interest as payments on a credit card, you know, interest payments, works against you. Compound interest when you’ve got an investment and it’s compounding in that way, it works for you. They’re [00:39:00] both compound interest, you know? It’s just which one is for you and which one’s against you. And, and, and against there meaning, you know, it’s gonna go backwards for you.

You, you owe more money with interest, or you earn more money with interest. So it’s, it’s the same kind of thing with behavior. It’s compound behavior. Behavior that’s intentional and goes in the right direction compounds over time. Behavior that’s unintentional or goes in the wrong direction compounds over time.

That’s all, that’s all we work on. So I talk about time, talent, and treasures, but my joke is people usually come to me ’cause they have, they think they have a time problem or they have a money problem. All we ever really work on is talent. Because you don’t manage time, you don’t manage money. What you manage is yourself, and how you manage yourself shows up in your time and money, and that’s the result, not the cause.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. That’s, that’s really good. Yeah. And I mean, uh, I love that whole residual portion because I think a lot of people sort of think that, okay, today’s gonna be different, and they wake [00:40:00] up and they go, "I’m gonna make all these different decisions." And then things keep happening, but the things that are happening are not the result of today you making the change.

They’re a result of what you did yesterday, and it’s gonna sa- take some time before… Today’s change is only gonna have an impact in a few days now, only if you keep doing it, right? And, uh, people get discouraged ’cause they’re like, "Oh, this just doesn’t work. You know? Might as well not even

Scott Maderer: it’s, you know, health, the health realm is always an easy one for people to understand, you know? It’s like, it’s like dieting, right? You know, if you, if you want a beach body in June, you don’t change the way you’re eating on June 1st, you know? It, it’s not gonna work, um, because you’ve gotta… It, it’s gotta compound over time.

You’ve gotta change things about your exercise or your, your eat, your nutrition, or both, um, you know, those sorts of things to change what it looks like in June, and you, you don’t start in June. You start way before. [00:41:00] The same thing happens in our, our business life, our, our relationships, our, our spiritual walk.

I don’t care what part of your life you want to put it in, your career. Whatever it is, it’s the same formula. It, it’s just, it’s just kind of a different lens through which to look at it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So how do we find out more about you then?

Scott Maderer: So I actually put together a page, uh, just for your podcast listeners. If you go over to my website, which is inspiredstewardship.com, and then just put in /workfromhomerockstar. No spaces or anything, just make it all one word. I know that’ll look weird, but it’s easier, uh, on the internet machine. So if you go to, uh, inspiredstewardship.com/workfromhomerockstar, what you’ll find there is I put together some free resources and free exercises around time and money.

So if that’s just an area you’ve been struggling with and you wanna check something out, uh, it, it is geared kind of towards both personal and business. And then as well, there’s information about my book I mentioned, [00:42:00] Inspired Living, and I have a podcast myself called Inspired Stewardship that’s linked on there as well.

And if you’d like to jump on a quick call, that link is there as well. So all of the resources in one place, so it’d be easy to find at inspiredstewardship.com/workfromhomerockstar

Tim Melanson: All right, love it. That’s awesome. Thank you so much. Okay, one more question. This one might be the hardest one though. So we’re gonna talk about music. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Scott Maderer: Favorite band is probably Queen. Um, uh, that’s, uh, that, that’s definitely one that I could listen to. Aerosmith’s probably a close second, um, in part because my wife and I, that was like, I took her to an Aerosmith concert in, uh, Austin as our, it, it was our very first date. It, it technically wasn’t even a date, right?

You know, we were just going as friends, one of those things. Um, and obviously it, apparently it worked out. By the way, she had no idea who Aerosmith was I [00:43:00] think at the time, uh, ’cause she grew up on a different kind of music. So it was interesting. But, uh, yeah, so Queen and, and Aerosmith are probably my first and my second

Tim Melanson: Oh, bring a girl to a concert. You know, classic, classic. Always works, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah, well, we kept moving up the hill ’cause, uh, let- let’s just say there was a, it was an outdoor venue and th- there were rather large clouds of smoke, let’s just put it that way. So we just kept moving up the hill. Uh, and then when it was time to leave at the night, you know, we, we basically were like, "We’re just gonna hang out on the truck for a while and, uh, let everybody else leave ’cause I, I have a feeling there might be some traffic accidents."

So,

Tim Melanson: it’s funny. It-

Scott Maderer: but it was … So we ended up spending a, a good amount of time together, so it was, it was, it was pleasant all around

Tim Melanson: I love that. Right on. Well, thank you so much, Scott, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. Thank you for having me

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information. We’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast Navigating Success: Mastering Time, Talent, and Treasures

[00:00:00]

Tim Melanson: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Excited for today’s episode. We are talking to the CEO of Franchise With Max, and he helps people to find a franchise. I mean, this is really cool. You actually help people start a business. So that’s, uh, one of the main goals of this, uh, podcast, and also many of the franchises I imagine are work from home.

So that’s, uh, a double hit on this one. So excited to be talking with Max Emma. Hey, Max, you ready to rock?

Max Emma: Yes. Hi, Tim. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it

Tim Melanson: Oh, awesome. Yes, gonna be a good time. So we always start off here on a good note. Tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Max Emma: Well, story of success, I guess me coming at the age of 18 from the former Soviet Union without a word of English. Uh, learning English, uh, by just practicing here and there any moment, every opportunity I would get, and then getting my degree, working for corporate America for four [00:01:00] years just to realize that corporate life is not for me.

My joke is that I’ve constantly been kissing the wrong butt. So I gave it up and started my own business. I went from three employees to 96, lost everything in bankruptcy when the recession of ’08, ’09 hit. Um, started the business again, it was more successful, sold it, and while doing it, created a bookkeeping company because of need.

My background is in finance. Uh, my co-founder background is in accounting. So we did, uh, started the business and then took it nationwide and eventually franchised the concept. So, um, I couldn’t see that happening. We, again, did it because we couldn’t find the right bookkeeper, but then we made it the only bookkeeping franchise in the United States.

So I guess that’s a success. It’s still work in progress. I mean, we’re still getting there, but just a few months ago we made it to Entrepreneur 500 list, which is like a Fortune 500 for, uh, franchises in the US, which is awesome. I don’t take it lightly. [00:02:00] So for me, it is a success

Tim Melanson: Wow, that is a success. And I mean, hey, we always talk about the bad note too, which is the failure, but it sounds to me like you got a couple in that story,

Max Emma: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Look, by bankruptcy, I mean, now I’m looking back, it was the best MBA I could have gotten, but at the time it wasn’t fun because with one baby at home and one on the way, it was pretty hard. And, you know, nobody was hiring, which I’m grateful that nobody was at this time, ’cause I probably would given up being an entrepreneur.

‘Cause I told myself, "Okay, just not for me. Didn’t happen. I’m gonna go and find a job and go back into corporate." And I was good with that, but nobody was hiring. So I’m like, "Okay, I have to feed the family," so had to open another business. Was more successful that time

Tim Melanson: Okay. Well, how did that, how’d that come about? Like, what, what, uh… I mean, first of all, I imagine there’s a lot of stigma around bankruptcy, for sure, and I’m wondering, were you afraid to do it? Like, was it a good… Like, h- how did all that work out for you?

Max Emma: I was super scared because for me, you know, coming from, [00:03:00] uh, Russia, for us bankruptcy it was, I don’t know, close to killing somebody in, in our minds. Which, you know, in the US it’s obviously a legal process that goes back to 19th century. You can do it legally. You get discharged. But in my head, this is it.

This is the end. I will never, you know, go back to normal. I mean, what did I know that Henry Ford, don’t quote me, but I think he declared bankruptcy seven times, so a lot of people went through that. Again, there is a legal mechanism in the US. And the reason I had to do it, it not because it was my choice.

I was actually fighting till the last moment but, you know, we were doing track homes. We’re doing, uh, landscaping for track homes. I had 25 trucks, cranes, all the equipment, and then they stopped building because the recession hit. So I had all the bills that I had to pay for the equipment and no income.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Max Emma: in the United States, and I’m not sure about Canada, in the United States you have to personally guarantee all the equipment. So that’s why I had to do it personally. And California is a [00:04:00] communal state, so my wife had to do it as well. So it just, you know, like a event after event after event and we had to do it.

I mean, there was nothing… I didn’t owe anybody anything personal, but I did owe… You know, the company did. So that’s why it was like a domino effect

Tim Melanson: Wow. Now you said that it ended up being a good thing, so h- how did that work out?

Max Emma: It, well, it worked out because I learned, you know, that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And, you know, that you can figure anything out. Again, I started the bu- second business. It was, you know, worked hard and, you know, again, sold it for profit, which was, which was great. But again, you only can connect the dots looking backwards.

So back then, I did that out of necessity. I had to feed the family. I didn’t know what’s going to happen. It, it was super scary, Tim. That for me it was just, you know, I thought I’m a failure and I’m never going to get out of that

Tim Melanson: And but clearly you [00:05:00] did right? And things are better because of it, right?

Max Emma: I, I did and, you know, again, as I said, it probably was my best MBA ’cause I learned to, uh, pivot right on the spot. I didn’t have an opportunity to, like, sit down and think about it for a long time and plan it. One of the things that I learned, um, again, hard way, that a good plan today is better than perfect plan tomorrow.

So if I have something like a business idea, whatever, and it’s 80% ready, I’m just running with it. I’m not gonna make it perfect because, A, you can probably live all your life and never make it perfect, and B, you can miss an opportunity because somebody else will come up with this idea. So 80% is good enough for me.

So if idea is, like, almost ready, I’m just rolling with it, and then I’m learning as I go and making it better

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well now, uh, I mean some of this, uh, some of the what happened was just circumstance, right? I mean, recession and, you know, th- things happening. Uh, but is there anything that [00:06:00] you learned that you now do differently so that it doesn’t happen again?

Max Emma: Yeah, you plan for it and you listen to smarter people around you. People were telling me, "We’re not gonna get out." I mean, they saw the trajectory of where the business was going with all the equipment and, you know, the sales going down. And I’m like, "No, no, I can make it happen." I did not give up. I was going, uh, so like actually I renegotiated the, uh, terms with pretty much every bank.

I got the best deals. They’re like, "Okay, we’ll give you five years, six years to pay us off." And I’m like, "Cool." So I had all of that renegotiated. I just could not renegotiate having zero income, which was beyond my control. So right now, um, we’re just paying more attention to the finances. And again, that’s why bookkeeping started because if we had a bookkeeping company…

And look, I was a village idiot with bachelor in finance. My wife at the time, she had master’s in accounting. She was the smart one. So we understood the accounting and finance. We were just [00:07:00] so busy growing the construction company, we did not pay attention to the finances

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And that is a lot of business owners will not necessarily pay attention to that. And I mean, I get it, right? Because you’ve got your, your thing that you’re doing. Your, your business is hard. I mean, you’ve gotta wear a lot of hats. And you’re spinning them all at the same time, right? So wh- when you’re out there trying to get new clients, ’cause ob- obviously that’s important, you may not be noticing that the numbers are pointing in a down direction, right?

But I mean, if you had somebody that was, that was keeping up on top of that, you would have those regular reports. You’d have somebody th- telling you, like, "Hey, something’s going on here. We need to, we need to pay attention," right?

Max Emma: Mm-hmm. Absolutely

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. Okay, cool. So now, uh, speaking of the people around you, I’m wondering, tell me about your band.

Like, who do you have? Or maybe I’ll ask you this question. Who was the first person that you hired on your team?

Max Emma: So [00:08:00] depends on which business you’re talking about, but if we’re talking about, um, the bookkeeping company, so I started it with my, uh, wife, who is now an ex-wife, but we still run the business together. We actually started the franchising together, and unlike many couples who are divorced that are fighting, we actually, you know, created another baby.

We already have two real human ba- babies, but this is like a business. And look, Entrepreneur Magazine just found out about us and did an interview with us about a month ago. Uh, y- because for them, it was really interesting that people who are divorced actually not only not fighting, but are starting something new and making it to the Entrepreneur 500 list.

So they approached us, and I’m like, "Okay, that’s a great PR." So, um, I don’t want to say I hired her, but when we started bookkeeping, I was literally going, uh, um, getting the clients, and she was doing the work out of our youngest son nursery. So we kicked him out to his [00:09:00] brother’s room, and that became an office

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That is quite a story though, to be working with your ex-wife, like, and, and even the fact that you brought her on after you were already divorced, right? Like, that’s, that’s

Max Emma: started a new business together. She was always part of Bookkeeping. We started it together. I mean, I was mostly running it. She had other gigs. But, uh, right now she’s, uh, back in the business, and again, she’s a professor. Um, she got her PhD. But, you know, she is an instrumental part of, like, executive coaching for all of our franchisees and all our employees

Tim Melanson: So how important is it to delegate work to other people?

Max Emma: Uh, that’s huge. Honestly, I did not see company growing. Uh, it– I thought I’m not doing something right because I was the bottleneck. I was doing most of the work, uh, myself that I could have delegated long time ago. But my logic, which was completely wrong, was, "You know what? I’m just gonna [00:10:00] do the proposals at night while I’m watching Netflix."

I mean, it’s not really work. I’m just sitting there and doing it. It’ll take me longer, but whatever, I’m watching the show. If you would have asked me what the show was about later on, I probably would not be able to do it because I was doing both at the same time, and without realizing I was working 12-hour days because I was spending my evenings doing it.

So– and that’s when I had one business. Now, with three businesses, I have executive assistant in each one of them. And, um, hiring the executive assistant was absolutely the best thing I’ve done because turned out I could delegate 80% of my time, uh, and my, my, um, you know, responsibilities, and I could start doing more of strategy, what hopefully I’m good at, and, you know, planning and do the, uh, business development and sales and building the relationship.

So I’m part of the organization called Strategic Coach that honestly changed my, uh, life, both personally and business, and [00:11:00] they just teach you that you have to spend 80 to 90% if– in your unique ability. You have to figure out what you’re good at, what you enjoy doing, and just keep doing it because that’s not real work.

If you like being around people, like if you, for example, like, uh, playing music, I mean, for you, it’s not work. For you, it’s fun, right? I mean, for me, being around people and exchanging the energy, it’s not work for me. I’m really enjoying it. But, you know, put me to do bookkeeping and I’m gonna kill somebody, and then I’m gonna kill myself, even though I run a bookkeeping company

Tim Melanson: Well, that’s funny. Well, and, and that’s just it, right? I mean, a- and, and now with your, uh, executive assistant, like, how did you find these, these people? Like, w- what was your hiring process?

Max Emma: So for executive assistant, uh, right now all of my executive assistants are outside of the US, so they’re working from home. So am I. I ma- made a point to travel to, uh, Colombia and Salvador and [00:12:00] meeting them in person because I want to develop this relationship. But again, we speak all the time on Zoom and the phone, and they work, uh, for, uh, for me.

But again, I just– few months ago I went to Salvador for sole purpose to meet my executive assistant who’s been with me for two years, and we just spent couple, couple days together, which was great. Um, so I used agencies for at least one of them. Another one I just found through a friend’s recommendation.

And look, I’m– I believe in hiring agencies, uh, uh, to help you. Yes, you pay their, the fees, but they do all the due diligence for you. They check, make sure the references are fine. Plus, look, I want my employees, all the employees that I have, and between three businesses, I have employees in nine different countries, they all have benefits.

They all have vacation. So they actually have employee, employer of record in every country. So yes, it costs the company more, but [00:13:00] I’m gladly paying that because, you know, it’s worth it. I mean, people get, you know, all the benefits. Like, to give you an idea, for example, in Colombia, same as Philippines, you have to pay people thirteen-month salary.

So at the end of the year, they get double salary in December. In the Guatemala, where I now have an office, you have to pay them thirteenths and fourteenths month salary. So in December they get three salaries. So an employer, I get charged every month just so they do it. But I, I want to do it and, you know, every, everybody gets medical, dental and visual and all, all, all, all the benefits, whether they’re in the US or outside of the US.

Tim Melanson: So why did you decide to hire outside of the US, though?

Max Emma: Um, well, interestingly enough, until about 2016, 2017, when I just had the bookkeeping company, all my flyers, I still have them somewhere, it says 100% in the US. We are all, you know, we don’t offshore, so I was proud [00:14:00] of that. And then I realized that I’m missing out. There was very hard to get talent in the United States.

Like, I had, in two cases, people snatched out of my company by a large corporation. I remember I had a lady who did not have a degree. We were doing M&A, buying bookkeeping companies throughout the United States, so I bought one, and this employee, you know, came with the company, and she stayed, and she was running the office.

And then one of the large corporations, very large, gave her an offer to come and do accounts payable, accounts receivable, I don’t remember, in-house. They doubled her salary. Doubled. And for them it was just, you know, for me it was a lot of money. I think she was making, like, 35,000 at the time. They gave her 65 or 70, and I’m like, "Good luck.

I’m wishing you all the best. I just can’t even come closer to that." So, like, literally, "Thank you for giving me two weeks’ notice." And at this point, that’s what the company were doing. They were just, you know, like, what’s [00:15:00] 30, 40,000 for Facebook or for Google or for something else? Nothing. So they just were getting good people.

I’m like, "What can I do?" And that’s gave me an idea, so maybe it’s time to pivot, and it’s time to start hiring outside of the US. But before I opened the first office in, uh, uh, Philippines, uh, I actually traveled there, learned the culture, met people, traveled around the country before I realized that, okay, I do want to have business in this country.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, because that, that’s the thing is that the dollar is worth so much different that you can pay them something that you can afford, and to them it’s a huge, it’s a huge, um, paycheck, right?

Max Emma: Yeah, I mean, look, my, my, um, a lot of our employees have their own personal cars and everything else. So day and night, it’s not, I’m not running a sweatshop, I can promise you that much. So people make really, really good money, uh, working for us.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, where,

Max Emma: compared to the US salary, it’s less than minimum wage.

I get it. But, you know, [00:16:00] for what they make in this particular country and what the cost of living is, um, they doing really, really good. I mean, I would say that they’re probably doing better than a lot of US employees if you take into consideration, you know, the cost of living in the US

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and it’s probably less likely that someone’s gonna come and offer them double the pa- double the salary, right? It just

Max Emma: Oh, it’s, it’s been done before because for a lot of companies, because they’re paying less, not double, but they’re like, "Okay, we’ll give you an extra $1,000. We’ll give you…" And that’s a lot of money there. So therefore, extra $1,000 a month, people will jump ship. And again, I– this is my policy. I do not, uh, you know, negotiate.

If somebody comes in, "Well, this is the price I’m getting," well, good luck. I mean, I’m not gonna just start matching it. If the, our cultural values and other values are not important for you, then maybe you’re not a good match for the company anyway. So go. I mean, good luck

Tim Melanson: So when you lose somebody though, doesn’t that really [00:17:00] hurt your business? Now you have to tre- retrain somebody? Like

Max Emma: It, it does, but, you know, um, all I can do is to, um, expect that it might happen at some point, so we cross-train everybody. We always have several people working on different, uh, uh, the clients. That’s for the bookkeeping side. For the franchising, uh, uh, and for franchise consulting or brokerage, I use a lot of AI, so hopefully nobody gonna take that away from me.

And over the years, I just learned that if somebody leaves you, then probably the next person gonna be better. So it’s gonna be a shock and tragedy in the beginning, but after a while it’s gonna work out. So, um, I am, I’m fine with that. This is just cost of doing business

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and, and I think that when you… I mean, o- one of the things that you learn, I think, pretty quickly when you’re trying to hire somebody is that you have to have, like, some systems in [00:18:00] place to train people. And once you build those systems, that same system just gets better and better as, you know, it gets more refined.

And so if someone leaves, you’re just using the same system to train the next person. Yes, like you say, it’s gonna hurt some stuff, but you have a system in place that you use to train, so you can train somebody else, right?

Max Emma: Oh, sure. Yes

Tim Melanson: yeah. Now, so when you talk about, uh, um, you know, learning all the things that you’ve learned, you know, in this thing, do you hire coaches?

Do you, do you have people that you hire?

Max Emma: Y-y-yes, I do. Like, I would not be able to do it without coaches. I did the CEO group for, for a while, and now I’m, and again, as I said, a str- strategic coach. And, um, you know, so I travel once a quarter to, uh, Chicago and, you know, spend a day or two, full day with– in a room with other CEOs, and I’m learning a lot from that.

Um, also, I’m trying to read as much [00:19:00] as possible and listen to podcasts. Uh, I actually made it, uh, um, you know, my daily routine. Like, I like– I live, uh, right on the bay, and I like to do 10K walks. Uh, that’s, uh, my cardio workout, and I’m listening to a podcast. So I’m doing my steps in, and then also I’m listening and hopefully training my head.

So I’m actually, um, w- doing a lot, trying to get better. Uh, and the, there is no stop to it because, you know, there is no limit to how you can improve yourself. But look, I’m– I don’t have, like, a lot of expectation. Like, when I have a new book, if I get one nugget out of a book, it’s a great book. So I’m not gonna spend four months, three months reading it.

I’ll listen to it really fast, and again, I get couple ideas. There are some books that I’m coming back to. I use the service that gives you a 15-minute summary for– And that’s not, you know, Shakespeare. I’m talking about business books or [00:20:00] self-development books. But, you know, for me, it works out really well.

But in a day, I can do two books, which if I read them completely, it probably would take me, like, with lack of time, over a month to finish one. But now I’m doing– I’m not doing it every day. Call it 30, 40 books a month. And then again, I write down one idea. So I get one idea out of this book, perfect, and then I implement it or trying to

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s amazing. And, and that’s the thing is that a, a lot of entrepreneurs, I mean, we hear this all the time. Number one, y- you, you also mentioned, like, working out and doing walks. I hear that so much that people who are entrepreneurs have some sort of self-care routine, and they’re learning all the time, right?

And it’s one of those things where, uh, you, you, you don’t necessarily hear that quite as much in, uh, you know, people who are employed with somebody else, right? Do you make sure that your employees, though, have those types of routines?

Max Emma: [00:21:00] Well, I can’t make them. I mean, I believe in leading by example. They know that, like, I, I start my day early, but around 4:00 PM, I shut down. I mean, the– everybody, my 4:00 PM and on the West Coast, most of my employees already done because they’re in different time zones, like Central mo- most of the time. Um, but, you know, uh, they know that after 4:00, I’m going to a gym, and that’s my, my time.

So that, that’s it. Because if I don’t, it’ll be 8:00 PM, I’m still gonna be in front of the computer without dinner because there’ll be always something to do. And I’m running a marathon, not a sprint. So in order for me to run the marathon, I have to, you know, pace myself. ‘Cause, you know, if I just do work 14-hour days, I can do it for a day or two, but then, you know, I get tired, and I need a few days to get my energy back.

So again, uh, when people say, "Well, I’m working 20-hour days," great. When I was [00:22:00] younger, I probably could have done that, but as you get older, you know, you get depleted of your energy. At least I do

Tim Melanson: Me too. Yeah, I, I mean, you get sick too, right? And, uh, I think that’s feedback

Max Emma: but, but having said that, if you do what you like, again, being your unique ability, you’re enjoying it so much it stop being work. I mean, I see you have Beatles T-shirt. I’ve seen Paul McCartney twice live. The guy was on the stage for three hours and 20 minutes. That was right before COVID. I saw him in New Orleans.

Three hours and 20 minutes, he hasn’t left the stage once, you know? And he doesn’t do it for money. He, he’s got it, but the guy enjoyed it so much, like, I think if you would’ve let him, he would do another two hours

Tim Melanson: Yeah, he probably would’ve. I would’ve let

Max Emma: Yeah, no, for sure. But my point is, and then I did, like, went to private si- soundcheck before, which, you know, all the money went to charity. He did 45-minute concert [00:23:00] before the concert. So it was, like, four hours of, of Paul McCartney. But again, for him it’s not work. I understand it’s all rehearsed, I understand it’s a show, and there are a lot of elements.

I get it. So it is work, and he’s com- getting compensated, as he should. But I bet you he’s going there to have fun and get energy from this, you know, 40,000 people at the stadium

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, speaking of the fans, like, tell me how do you, how do you… Like, I mean, the world has changed so much over the last, you know, uh, 20, 30 years, and nowadays, I mean, everyone is online. It’s so easy to connect with people. But you have to get them converted into fans. Like, and there’s so much noise out there.

So I’m wondering, what are some of the strategies that you use nowadays to get people to buy from you?

Max Emma: Well, first of all, I don’t want to sell to them, so I am always trying to be always in a buyer’s mode. [00:24:00] So even when I sell somebody services, I’m actually buying for, uh, I’m buying my customers. So what I mean, I’m not desperate, at least that’s how I train my head, to sell them something. Because when you’re selling, you are willing to do anything.

Like, "Okay, give me 5% discount and I’ll sign there." And you want this deal so much, you’re like, "Okay, yes, I’ll, I’ll give it to you." And then they start pushing, pushing. When you’re buying, it’s totally fine. Like, if they don’t want your services, it’s okay, then this is not for me. So when I sell franchises, for example, a bookkeeping franchise, yes, I do want franchisee.

Yes, I want to open more offices throughout the United States, but I’m taking my sweet time to find the right person, and I’ve said more nos than I’ve said yeses. Even though, you know, I could have made money on it, but in the long run, it would not be, um, it would not be the right choice for, for the company.

And look, um, yes, everything is online, so we’re trying to automate as much as possible, but when I get [00:25:00] an opportunity to meet somebody live, I’m always doing that. ‘Cause for me, uh, like when I sell, for example, bookkeeping franchise, I make a point of going to the city where I sold it later on and meet this person for lunch, dinner, drinks, coffee, whatever, and spend time with them, ’cause I want this connection.

For me, nothing can replace… I can’t be in front of the computer for a long time. If I do, I have to, you know, call some of my friends or colleagues, say, "Hey, let’s go have a cigar. Let’s go have, have a drink." Just so I have a personal communication with somebody

Tim Melanson: Yeah, that theme is coming up a lot more often, and I, I get it because now with AI and all that stuff and, uh, I mean, now if you can make the effort to actually meet someone in person, it’s a big deal, right? Or, or even on, even on video it’s a big deal, right? ‘Cause people are just trying to send emails or trying to just connect with people on social media, and it doesn’t land the same way.

I mean, we, we do business with people, right?

Max Emma: Well, sure. And look, like social [00:26:00] media, it’s a lot of your energy. Uh, one of the biggest things that I’ve done to myself, and it helped to run three businesses now, I have a block for social media from 5:00 AM to 5:00 PM every day. Yes, I can undo the block, but it’s a special process I have to go. But right now, I wake up in the morning, I don’t immediately start looking what’s going on on my Facebook, okay?

Yes, I mean, I have– it goes back on at 5:00 PM, so if I’m, you know, doing whatever at night, I can look at, you know, my l- you know, messages. But, uh, during the day, we don’t do it. I mean, I don’t do it. But I do have a, a social media manager for, uh, the companies. That’s his full-time job, is to actually do the posts business related.

So he is– he has access to my social media, but he’s doing it for business. But I don’t have access to it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. Well, let’s get into your solos. Tell me what’s exciting in your business right now then

Max Emma: Well, um, [00:27:00] as I mentioned, you know, one business, uh, ran, I mean, actually led to another business. Like, I started bookkeeping, then by accident I started doing bookkeeping for a franchise brand. Then two, three, and I started going to franchise conferences, and I really like being around franchisors, so I franchised the business.

As I mentioned, we’re the only bookkeeping franchise in the US right now. And then I realized that some people are not a good match for bookskipping, for bookkeeping franchise. So I did open the franchise brokerage, and I’m really enjoying it because I do get, I call them corporate refugees, for example, somebody who doesn’t wanna work for corporate America for whatever reason.

Maybe they lose their job, maybe it’s their choice. And in some cases, by the way, it’s because they don’t want to working in the office 8:00 to 5:00. I have, I placed couple people who exactly said that, like, "We don’t want to be have… We want to have a flexibility." So I have over 600 franchises to choose from, and it’s a little bit of art.

You listen to the person like, "Have you considered this?" Like, "Oh, I haven’t thought that, [00:28:00] you know, I would enjoy, you know, painting franchise." Because a lot of people, they, um, mix up hobbies and the business. And I always say that, look, you can be the best cook and you be, you could be horrible in running a pizza franchise because, you know, nobody cares that you know the best recipe of pizza.

A Domino’s not gonna allow you to use your grandmother recipe. The pepperoni pizza has to be exactly the same in Beijing, San Diego, and planet Mars, you know? Because that’s their, um, recipe, and they don’t really care what you know and how good a cook of, or cook you are. So a lot of people mix it up, and that, that’s the mistake.

So I’m always trying to break through it. I’m like, it’s not about your hobby. It’s not what you’re good at. Are you good with people? A lot of candidates, they don’t realize, they think McDonald’s for example, it’s a restaurant. Well, between you and me, it’s not. Average McDonald has 50 plus [00:29:00] employees. So if you buy a pack of two or three, you have 150 employees.

You are in human capital business. You have to deal with 150 employees because most of the owners of McDonald’s have at least three, okay? That’s, that’s a different business. Yes, you do have managers, but if, you know, because you pay mostly minimum wage, ’cause otherwise the system not gonna support itself, and then people leaving and going somewhere else and you are short 10 people, what are you gonna do?

Tim Melanson: Go help.

Max Emma: Exactly. I mean, so, so my, my, my point is that people don’t, don’t think beyond what, what they’re good at. Well, I’m an accountant, so I’m only gonna buy a bookkeeping franchise, for example. First of all, you don’t have to be an accountant to buy a franchise, because we do train. But second of all, um, there are other options.

I mean, I’ve seen some CPAs who are running, um, male, uh, uh, hormones clinics, and they’re [00:30:00] doing great. I mean, uh, I know two of them that own six or eight each, and they have a successful CPA practice

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. So then what’s the process? Uh, like if I wanted to buy a franchise and I wanted to connect with you, what do I, what would I do and, and what would I expect?

Max Emma: So, I mean, that’s why I created this website, Franchise with Max, where people can go and choose if they wanna talk about bookkeeping for their business, if they wanna talk about book keeping franchise or help with, uh, um, you know, choosing over 600 different franchising. Um, it’s, it’s a conversation. So we’re just having a conversation.

I just wanna know more what you want to, uh, do with your life. I mean, how many hours do you wanna work? What are your expectation? I mean, I have some, uh, clients who just want to do it part-time. They’re like, "You know what? I like playing golf." I mean, in my stage of life, uh, they’re saying, "I want to go and enjoy, you know, five hours a day, I want to play golf.

So I don’t mind [00:31:00] working the other half day, but I don’t wanna work 12 hours." Well, if you don’t wanna work 12 hours or 14 hours, then probably a restaurant is not a business for you unless you wanna have a general manager. If you want 8:00 to 5:00 business, then, you know, open a B2B. Like, because, yes, you might…

if you open book keeping franchise, you might need to get and do some work over the weekend, but you’re not probably gonna talk to a client on Saturday or Sunday. Nobody expecting you to return the call at 10:00 PM. If you opening a dog boarding business, I mean, I have friends, they own couple, uh, dog hotels.

They’re doing really great financially. But, um, interestingly enough, New Year’s Day, and then day after Thanksgiving, almost everybody calling in sick. And these two guys, they’re doing really well, have to go at 4:00 in the morning and feed the dogs. So they’re actually two brothers. One of them is always in town.

They, they can’t, uh, travel, you know, at the same time. One always has [00:32:00] to stay for that particular reason. Yes, they’re making ton of money, but they’re limited. They

Tim Melanson: they’re

Max Emma: you know, go together and s- you know, have fun.

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s awesome. Okay, so then if we wanna find out more, we go to franchisewithmax.com. Is there any other way to get in touch with you?

Max Emma: I mean, LinkedIn would be great, uh, and but FranchisesMax is probably the easiest. Franchisesmax.com, there is a QR code here. Um, you know, my services are completely free. That’s very important. We get paid by a franchisor if somebody buys a franchise. If not, doesn’t cost you a conversation. But, uh, not only we getting paid by franchisor, I’m sharing part of it with my, um, uh, candidates, and also I pay for nine months of their sales training, because I want them to be successful.

So I’m pretty much giving close to half of what the money that I make on my commission. So it’s not only free, I give you money, I give you the money back. And if you go directly to a franchise, by law, they cannot give you [00:33:00] any cash discount because you called them directly. So our fees, broker’s fees, coming directly from a franchisor, uh, as a compensation.

But again, if you call directly to this particular pizza franchise, they will not give you any discount because you skipped the broker. So use us. We are consultants. I mean, it’s… we’re not even brokers. Uh, it’s, it’s a word of the past. It’s a franchise consulting. It’s a conversation. I mean, I went back to school to get my certified franchise executive.

I do know a thing or two about franchising, so let’s have a conversation. That’s all I can say. And for some people, um, they want to work from home. So out of 600, I would say 300 of them are home-based businesses. So if that’s the case for you, do it. I mean, A, you don’t have to get the storefront, you don’t have to sign a five-year lease, and you can work from a spare bedroom or living room

Tim Melanson: Oh, I love that. That’s great. All right, well, before we go, I got one more question for you. Let’s talk about music. So who is your favorite rock star or [00:34:00] band?

Max Emma: So I am a huge Beatles fan. I mean, as I said, I’ve seen McCartney, McCartney twice. Uh, uh, and I went to see Ringo just because I wanted to see, well, there are two live Beatles, uh, and I want, I want to see them both. Um, I like, uh, Queen. Obviously, I didn’t get a chance to see Freddie Mercury, but I’ve seen them touring with Adam Lambert.

I’ve seen them two or three times. Elton John, Billy Joel, I’ve seen each of them four or five times. Sting, probably six times. So I– and, and look, whenever there is a famous band and they’re getting older, I always wanna make a point to see them because it might be your last chance. Like, I’ve seen Aerosmith, and in Vegas, I flew for that because later when they had the farewell tour, it got canceled.

I had the ticket, and I got my money back. I didn’t see it. So you never know when is the last opportunity to see this artist. Like, I’ve seen Bob Dylan a year ago, but he just came back few days ago to San Diego. I didn’t go again, but who knew if [00:35:00] he’s gonna be touring again or not? So, so whenever I see, like, the older name, like I’ve seen– I went to see Tony Bennett a year before he died because I knew it’s probably one of the last opportunities to do so

Tim Melanson: Wow. So you’re a big supporter of live music. I love that.

Max Emma: Oh, yeah. I, I go, I go all the time. Whenever there is live music or live theater. I’m a huge Broadway fan, so, uh, whenever I get an opportunity, I go. Like, I just came back from a franchise conference in New York, and I saw five shows in three days

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow.

We must have taken some extra time in,

Max Emma: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I, I go by work hard,

play hard

Tim Melanson: Oh, that’s awesome. So awesome. Thank you so much, Max. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for rocking out with me today.

Max Emma: Team, thank you very much for the opportunity

Tim Melanson: Awesome. To the listeners, make sure you go to, you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar Podcast. Very excited for this episode. We’re talking to a marketing strategist from Bolt From The Blue Copywriting, and what she does is she helps, she helps to create marketing strategies and write copy and content that helps people build relationships with their clients and audience so they can share ideas that matter and make more money.

That sounds pretty cool to me. So we are rocking out today with Rachel Allen. Hey, Rachel, you ready to rock?

Rachel Allen: I am ready

at literally at all times

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, let’s rock out then. We always start off here on a good note. Tell me a story of success that we

can be inspired by

Rachel Allen: Hmm. You know, I, uh, I had a couple, but I think the one I’m gonna go with is actually how I started my business and how I became a work-from-home rockstar. I’ve never actually had another job, uh, as an adult. So I graduated from college with a journalism degree, and, uh, but the problem was I graduated into the ’08 recession, and of course, nobody was hiring anybody, and especially not people from rural Tennessee.

So, um, in my 22-year-old brain, I was like, "Well, what’s the furthest away I can get [00:01:00] from Tennessee?" And turns out it’s Hong Kong. So I bought a plane ticket, and I left. But I didn’t get a work visa or, like, do anything to prepare for it, and so I landed in Hong Kong with, like, 200 bucks in my bank account, and I had to make rent.

So I’m googling, like, how to make money online, which is only marginally less ridiculous then than it is now. And I found this, uh, job called copywriting, and I was like, "Well, I don’t know what that is, but I can do writing." Um, and I took it, and they paid me, and I was absolutely hooked, and that’s what I built my business off of.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Uh, it’s awesome in retrospect, mostly terrifying during

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I bet. Uh, I’m, and I imagine

there’s probably a language barrier and all that stuff. Do you speak the language or anything, or? You probably

Rachel Allen: minor, I mean, my minor was in Mandarin, but they speak Cantonese there primarily, and so I, I know just enough to get in trouble. You know, I can order at a restaurant, go to the bathroom, that kind of thing

Tim Melanson: Okay. So wow, that, that sounds amazing. Now, along with the good note though, sometimes things [00:02:00] don’t go as planned. And so I’m wondering, uh, we do like to talk about that on this show because it, it is what keeps people out of the game in the first place, is just afraid to fail. And, uh, I’m wondering, can you share with me something that didn’t go as planned and how you recovered and how we can recover?

Rachel Allen: Yeah. Well, uh, my bad note’s kind of tied to my good note, actually. So I spent a couple years in Hong Kong and then ended up living nomadically for the next 10 years, and I moved about every six months. I didn’t really know what I was doing with the business, though, so, um, I got into this situation where I hadn’t paid taxes in three years in two separate countries, and I just kind of ignored it and, like, really hoped it would go away.

And I think as we all know, that doesn’t happen. So I eventually came to this point where I had to, like, work up my courage and call an accountant and be like, "I’ve done something very, very bad." And they had to assemble this international team of accountants to get me filed appropriately in each country.

But that led to me having to hand categorize every expense I’d had for the past three years. And if you ever wanna really [00:03:00] rethink your decision-making paradigm, that is a good way to do it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Well, something similar happened to me too. I got, I got in trouble with taxes. Only one country though, so it was much easier. But the, the really good thing that came out of that is the same thing as you just said, I got into a really good accounting procedures of, like, accounting for everything, ’cause they need to know all that stuff, right?

And, and, uh, especially for, like, uh, business categories and making sure that everything’s in the right spot, but it worked for my personal as well. So the good silver lining, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I still do this every single week now. I hand categorize my expenses just kind of out of habit. I have a bookkeeper and an accountant, but I’m like, I just wanna keep my finger kind of on the pulse of what I’m doing, and I think that that’s really saved me from a lot of the, like, little bad decisions you can get into in business.

Like, you know, the subscriptions you don’t realize you’re still paying for, or like, oh, I haven’t used that email service in a year. Why is that still there, you know?

Tim Melanson: Well, and the, I mean, this lends really [00:04:00] well to the hat, to keeping the hat full, uh, which we talk, talk about all the time about the cashflow. ‘Cause I, I mean, there’s a lot of people that just really do avoid the, you know, the day to day, and they don’t check these things. And I mean, you kind of fell into that category as well.

So I’m wondering, uh, actually, just to take a step back, why do you think people avoid it so much?

Rachel Allen: Hmm. You know, I think in my case it was shame. It was a lot of shame. Um, I had never thought that I was ever gonna run a business because, um, I’m actually dyscalculic, which is ma- math dyslexia. I don’t… I’m not good with numbers. They, like, switch on me. And so I had this idea that because I’m bad at math, I can’t be good with money, which, you know, it’s silly, but we make those weird connections in our brains.

And so I was like, "Oh, well, I can’t. I’m afraid I’m gonna break it if I touch it, so I’m just gonna kind of like hope that everything works out." And I eventually had to go through this mindset shift of like, well, this is a part of my business. I need to treat it just like any other element of it, and realize that, like, I’m not gonna, I don’t [00:05:00] know, accidentally burn my house down if I do the spreadsheet wrong.

So I had to get over that shame, and I think that’s where a lot of people come from too. They just, they don’t know what you don’t know, and I think it can be intimidating to approach an expert, um, in that area

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think there’s, I think there’s shame. I think there’s also that programming even, right? That math is hard, right? Uh, uh, ’cause you do see that quite a bit, right? Where it’s, it’s sort of like normalized and it’s like cool to be, you know, not good at math. I don’t know. You know, the cool people are not good at math and the nerds or the geeks are good at math.

And it’s just like, so you sort of have this programming in there as well that might be playing a part. I don’t know if it does or not, right?

Rachel Allen: Oh, definitely. And as you say that, I think another part of it that trips a lot of people up, or it certainly did me, was I tried to follow other people’s systems for keeping on top of my finances, and I was like, "Oh, no, I need to break this down, like, to a really basic checklist for me," because my nervous system is already so weird about it.

I need to figure out a way that works for me so I’m not trying to go in and, like, use a software that doesn’t [00:06:00] make sense to me or do a whole bunch of calculations by hand because, you know, that’s never gonna work out well. So I had to find my own way to do it

Tim Melanson: And I think that, um, I, I mean, I, I would say probably the worst thing, of course, is to do nothing like, but

Rachel Allen: Yeah, don’t do that.

Tim Melanson: but then the next worst thing, which is also could be better, could be good, is to find someone to help you with it or to find someone to do it for you.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: that, I mean, there’s a lot of horror stories of people taking a- being taken advantage of by people that are handling the money for them type thing, right?

And I mean, sure, i- if, you know, if it’s someone that you can trust or if it’s your spouse, hopefully you can trust your spouse. Yeah, I know. But I mean, it, it’s not that bad when you really, like, sit down with it. I, I think, like you say, most of the issues that we have with that are programming issues, shame issues.

They’re, they’re things that are kind of like making us [00:07:00] avoid it. But when you really do look at it, I mean, it, it, it’s, it’s really just kind of… It’s as simple as you try to make it be, I think, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, totally. And I mean, one thing that was a big change for me was I actually ended up working with a financial behaviorist as well as an accountant, and her whole deal is like, yeah, money is, of course it’s emotional because our decision-making is emotional. And so it’s going in and, like, kind of unpicking that programming and seeing whether you still wanna make decisions from that basis or not

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. A- and, and I think, you know what? There might be a portion of it that is sort of like self-sabotaging as well, thinking that, "Well, if I don’t look at how little money I have,

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm

Tim Melanson: maybe then it will justify me making this terrible purchase idea that I’m about to make." Right?

Rachel Allen: Exactly. Totally.

Tim Melanson: Because I mean, if you really knew what the numbers were, you probably wouldn’t be buying that right now, right?

Rachel Allen: Oh, absolutely. And I think with entrepreneurs, we’re all, I think, prone to [00:08:00] shiny, shiny object syndrome, and it’s like, "Well, but if I buy that one more thing, then it’s gonna make me money, so really I’m saving money." And I’m like, "Maybe, or you’re just fooling yourself."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh yeah, well, and we get that in the consumer world too. "Well, it’s on sale, it means

Rachel Allen: Right, right.

Tim Melanson: you know, I’m making money by buying this"

Rachel Allen: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Tim Melanson: Right? So I, I, I do th- I mean, I, I think this is a, a massive topic that I think… I think what you just said about getting a, what is, was it a financial behavior specialist?

Rachel Allen: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: th- that’s probably a good place to start rather than going directly towards an accountant, because maybe there’s some blocks there that would just… Uh, I mean, ac- accountants and b- and bookkeepers, I mean, I don’t think they’re super expensive, but they’re, they’re also not free. So, you know, maybe putting a little bit of money into why it is that you’re avoiding the numbers, because I’m not saying that every entrepreneur needs to be on top of the numbers as much as you and I are, of course.

But I think it, [00:09:00] I, I think every entrepreneur has to have at least a basic understanding of where their money is going. Uh, like, y- you know, if you think it, about it, uh, even a CEO in a massive company, I mean, they get reports on this kind of stuff. Like, it, it, of course it’s not their job. They’ve got a s- you know, a technical officer that’s handling…

Or sorry, a financial officer that’s handling that ty- type of stuff, but they get the reports. They have a basic understanding of where their money’s going. So you should too, right?

Rachel Allen: Like anything else in your business, and I mean anything I do, whether it’s, uh, what- whatever I’m outsourcing, I wanna know that I can at least do it kinda sorta a little bit myself, even though I’m not going to do it forever ’cause someone else is better at it. I need to know, though, um, enough to where I can know if they’re screwing it up

Tim Melanson: Yes, there you go. And that’s probably a, a- that, well, that’s a really good, uh, example of every part of your business. And I think that that’s why, like, like when you get started as a, as a solopreneur, like you are wearing all those hats, and I think that’s a good place to start for most people is you, you, you start small, you know, y- [00:10:00] you know, your business is small, so your problems are small, right?

And, and so you can get a basic handle of how all your pl- your things work. And then the things that aren’t your gift zone, sure, you can start to delegate those things. But at least you know, like you say, I, I know if I’m hiring somebody who knows what they’re doing or not, because I know enough to know that part, right?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, absolutely. And then that way, I mean, something I’ve done before was I would really second-guess myself of like, "Well, they’re the expert. I mean, it doesn’t seem right, but it must be, uh-uh." And like that doesn’t work out either. So much like with, I think, finding therapists or any other service provider, you might go through a couple of accountants before you find the one who really gets you and who’s right for you.

And knowing enough to know what’s going on helps shore up that intuition where you’re like, "I don’t know, seems like a bad fit

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, if they can’t explain it to you like what you just said, uh, they c- i- it’s, it’s likely that they don’t know what they’re doing either ’cause anybody who really knows their topic should be able [00:11:00] to explain something to somebody else like they’re an eighth

Rachel Allen: Yeah, yeah,

Tim Melanson: or whatever it is, right?

So I mean, just because you might not be as much of an expert as they are, they should be able to explain to you, "Oh, no, no, I do it this way because of this." And then, like you say, follow your gut. Y- y- you could probably get a good gut feeling of whether they’re doing it that way because they’re, they’re skimming stuff off or because it actually is a really good i- uh, idea and strategy, right?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. And a lot of times even just the willingness. Like, I- that’s something I ask when I’m interviewing any service provider. I’m like, "How okay are you with answering my questions?" Like, I wanna be able to come to you and just say like, "Look, I, I’m not questioning you, but I need to understand why."

And if they’re like, "Oh, well, you need to trust my process," I’m like, "Okay, that’s fine. I do, and also, like, could we chat about it?"

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. So now when it comes to, like you mentioned that you were kind of moving around a lot,

Rachel Allen: Yeah

Tim Melanson: does that work for setting up your home office?

Rachel Allen: Ugh. I had to learn, uh, really quickly how to make that work for me, because I was in this… [00:12:00] You know, I was moving every six months. I was in different countries, different Airbnbs. This was, like, mid-aughts-ish, and so the internet wasn’t as common, and, as it is now, you know? Um, so what I learned really quickly was what works for me is I need a place with a flat surface and a comfortable chair that is very quiet or that I can make quiet.

I wasn’t doing as many calls back then, so it didn’t really matter if it was, like, you know, elevated the way I have this set up now. But, um, I did so much working on my laptop on my actual lap. Or, like, um, I was living in Greece for a while, and people are like, "Work on the beach." It’s a horrible idea. Don’t buy it.

Don’t ever do it. It’s the worst thing you’ll ever do. So I’ve experimented with all these things, and I had to find that. And then the one thing, um, that I would recommend everybody do, especially if they’re moving around to a bunch of places, you need something that tells your brain, "Hey, this is the work spot."

And so I actually have, um, a little cat figurine. It’s right

up there behind me if anybody’s watching this on video.

And that tiny little [00:13:00] cat, I call it my home cat, ’cause I bought it when I was in Hong Kong, and I was like, "Well, I’m moving, but ev- wherever the home cat is, that’s where home is." And so when I set that up, I’m like, "Okay, this is, this is home.

This is office space. This is where I do stuff." So if you can find little talismans that just tell your brain, "This is where we do the thing," then it helps so much, I think, with procrastination and brain fog, ’cause your brain’s like, "Well, this is where we do the thing

Tim Melanson: That’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. I remember when I was, uh, uh, when I was starting to work from home, my, uh, my son was very young at the time, and I ge- had this idea of putting on a work hat of like,

Rachel Allen: Yeah. Yeah,

Tim Melanson: that they don’t bug you when you’re wearing your work hat. Like, and it kind of like a similar thing, ’cause it probably did work as some sort of like, like you say, talisman or some sort of like cue to your brain that, okay, well I’m working right now.

So it probably helped with productivity

Rachel Allen: Yeah, absolutely. And another thing that people, uh, don’t think about is smells. So I have, um, like a scented candle that I light every morning when I go to work, and smells are such a powerful cue to your brain. So anything that you like, whether it’s like, hey, this is the c- [00:14:00] the coffee I only have at my desk, or this is the tea I drink here, this is the perfume I wear here, or whatever, that can be a super powerful cue

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s awesome. So smells and things that you’re looking at. Now, what, what about, like, inspiration in your… Do you have any of that?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, so actually as I look behind you right here, um, my house is literally like built up into the side of a mountain, so all it is is just green all the way up. Um, and there’s little like squirrels and chipmunks and stuff run around, but I can watch the leaves move, and I found that I just need a space where I can let my eyes like go into the middle distance.

Um, otherwise I get really distracted and I find myself like opening the same tabs over and over and over again even though like nothing is happening on LinkedIn, I don’t need to be there, but I’m like, "Hmm, let me just check." And I just need to have something to where I can kind of like gaze as I’m thinking

Tim Melanson: That’s a really good idea, and I think that that probably aligns with a lot of people as well. You- if you don’t have anything to look at that distracts you, like on purpose, then you’re gonna get distracted by something not on purpose, right?

Rachel Allen: Totally. [00:15:00] And for me, I think nature is such an important part of that. I’ve worked in cities as well, and I’ve had like, um, places where I would overlook like city si- skylines, and that works too. But something about having a tree moving outside my office just really helps my brain work

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, it’s nature. I mean, that’s what our, that’s what we are, right?

Rachel Allen: Right

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So now, how did you learn all this stuff? Like, where do you get all this? Is it, uh, do you hire coaches? Like, how does this all work for you?

Rachel Allen: So, uh, in the beginning I was in this, like, really strong state of denial that I was actually running a business, so I was like, "Don’t teach me anything about business. I’m not doing such a thing." But after I finally made that decision to really commit to it, uh, I did start working with coaches. So I’ve worked with several coaches over the years.

Um, I’ve also found masterminds to be a really integral part of my growth because I read, I don’t even remember where, but I read something early on of, like, make friends with people and then 20 years down the road, you know, that’s how you know all the cool people in the, like, ridiculous positions that no one ever knows how to connect with.

And so that’s been a huge part of my business, is just I like making friends [00:16:00] with people. It’s why I do podcast guesting. It’s why I love being in small groups and masterminds and, like, going to retreats and stuff. Because that’s how now, 18 years down the road, I’m like, "Oh, of course I know the CEO of blah, blah, blah.

I was there with her when she started the business," you know? And so it’s just, like, not reverse engineering or, like, having these transactional relationships, but just finding people that you think are cool and putting yourself in a room where you are not the smartest human and just being like, "Okay, just talk at me.

Like, just say stuff."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh, that’s awesome. Uh, I, I agree with that because I, like, I have hi- hired coaches as well. However, I think I’ve gotten the most out of… Like, and for me, I don’t, um, I have been parts of, part of masterminds, but this podcast really is my mastermind. I get to meet people that are way ahead of me on their journey, and I get to people, to meet people that are just getting started on their journey, and I like that.

I like being able to talk to both, right? I like to be able to kinda, like, aspire to something, and I also like to be able to help somebody. And I think that the [00:17:00] masterminds are, are kind of, like, built for that, right? Like, other than running your own podcast or getting on podcast guests, if you’re part of a mastermind, you just get that.

And having peers that you are on the same level as with as well that don’t have anything to gain from, like, they’re not competing with you. You know what I mean?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: And they’re not making money from you, right?

Rachel Allen: Exactly, like with that spirit of generosity. Like I had, um, a period, oh gosh, several years ago now, where I was really struggling with something, and I came to the mastermind, and I actually started crying, which I don’t normally do. But I was so touched because everyone in it just went like, zhoop, like this like pit crew around me, and they’re like, "All right.

Here’s what I’m gonna fix for you. Here’s who I’m gonna introduce you to. Here’s what happens next. Here’s how we’re gonna build your confidence." And just having that network of people to be like, "Hey, I don’t care how you show up. I really like you, and I believe in you even when you don’t believe in yourself," it’s so powerful

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I, I do think that this community, like the self-employed community, is a, is a community. We all kind of have… I mean, I, I don’t know how many- I’ve done [00:18:00] so many episodes of this, and everybody is helpful for each other, right?

Rachel Allen: totally. That’s what I love about it because, like, people will ask me a lot of times, like, "What’s it like being an entrepreneur?" And I’m like, "Well, it’s, it’s problem-solving, right?" That’s the entire job. Entrepreneurship is where basically nothing is your fault, but almost everything is your problem. And so I think that’s why everyone is so helpful, ’cause we’re like, I, you know, I know I would not be able to solve all the problems by myself, but maybe I can solve yours, and then maybe later you’ll solve mine, or you know somebody who solves mine or whatever.

And there’s a real generosity of spirit that I’ve found

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I know one thing is that w- probably the most common mistake or, or, or, or issue that people have is undercharging. Like, so come on, right?

Rachel Allen: I’ve got a magnet somewhere up there, oh, in the corner, yeah, over right there, that says, "Charge more," and it’s actually from the person who leads the mastermind that I’m in. And so that’s why it’s not always the right answer, but it’s often the right answer, you know?

Tim Melanson: It is often the right answer, yeah. And, uh, but I think that’s because of [00:19:00] what you just said. We like solving problems, right? It’s, you know, if we, if we take the, the music as the example, I know that most musicians would play for free, right? And, and that’s the reason why so many people, uh, w- that’s why the, the prices have not gone up.

Like, you know, musicians today in my city make actually less than they did in the ’80s. Like, it, it’s insane. But it’s just because we love it. So, you know, we’re just like, "You know what? I just wanted to… Like, any opportunity to play and I’m, I’m there." And I think the same thing happens in a lot of businesses.

It’s your baby. It’s what you love to do. So someone says, "Well, can you do it for this?" And you’re just like, "Oh, sure." Of course, that doesn’t work long-term

Rachel Allen: It really doesn’t. I get it though. I mean, like, I was absolutely boggled that anybody would pay me to do something that I do compulsively. Like, I cannot go a day without writing. It’s going to happen whether I want to or not. And so I had to really have a lot of shifts around that [00:20:00] and think like, "Okay, well what’s the value I’m actually providing here versus, I don’t know, like just give me five bucks or whatever," you know?

Tim Melanson: Well, let’s, let’s hear a little bit more about that. It’s time for your guest solo. So what is e- exciting in your business then?

Rachel Allen: Oh, so, I mean, there’s so many things. But what I’m really excited about is, um, I know that words make worlds. Words are the technology through which ideas and influence spread, and that’s what marketing’s all about. It’s just using words in a way that makes it easy for somebody to say yes to something.

So, um, I do that in a whole bunch of ways, but the thing I’m really excited about right now is I’m actually been doing some book outlining. And, um, it might sound a little off the beaten path, but it’s all the same thing, right? Like a book is still the, the process of making it easy for someone to buy your idea, to buy something in your business, whatever.

And, um, kind of harking back to our mastermind thing, the reason I got started on it was I kinda like … I’ve been doing it for a while, I’ve been helping clients out, being the editor on 19 books now, and I … It’s just fun. I didn’t even think about like really making it into a part of my business until my mastermind was like, "Hey, yo, people [00:21:00] don’t do it like you do it.

No one helps people like you help people. You need to make this an offer." So that’s what I’ve been doing.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, that’s awesome. So then how does it work then?

Rachel Allen: Yeah, so, um, I meet with people for four calls, and they just show up. They have, like, the idea for their book, and, like, maybe some notes, but they’ve just never been able to kind of get it out of their brains, and so they just sort of talk at me, and then I pull all the puzzle pieces together and put it into an outline that breaks it down, like, almost kind of like a paint by numbers of your own book.

So it’s in, like, 500-word chunks, and so I’ll be like, "Okay, in chapter one you need to start out by telling me this story. Re- remember you said points A, B, and C. Now I want you to transition and tell me about this. Spend 100 words saying this, then 200 blah, blah, blah." And so I really walk you through, like, step by step by step, and it makes it very easy to drop into the outline wherever you want so you don’t have to do it, like, linearly, and you can still know that everybody’s, everything is gonna be in the right order and, like, you’re not gonna, like, drop something out

Tim Melanson: Hmm. So I, and I would guess that this kind of outline, this, this is probably the [00:22:00] block of most people, right? Why, why they’re not writing the book that they think they want to write, right?

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. ‘Cause you, like, you go down, like, the endless, like, research hole, or you get stuck on, like, well, does this story belong in chapter five or chapter 25? So, like, it’s all the thinking work that goes into doing a book, and if you front-load it, I mean, everybody I’ve done this with has finished their book in three months after the outline’s done, ’cause, like, all you gotta do is write.

You don’t have to think

Tim Melanson: Well, yeah, thinking’s bad, right? Just kidding. No, well, and, and I mean, a lot of the

Rachel Allen: It’s hard. Takes time.

Tim Melanson: times, yeah, you’re just unblocking yourself and allowing that, that to come out, right? ‘Cause I- that’s the thing is that you know your story. It’s just, it’s kinda difficult to put it together sometimes or to separate it, actually make it into smaller chunks,

Rachel Allen: And it’s hard to get perspective. Like, you need somebody on the outside. I, I do as well, right? When I write my own books. You have to have somebody on the outside who’s like, "Okay, here’s the through line. Here’s where that goes." Because when you’re so close to it, you can’t see it

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. And how do, so how do people find out about this then?

Rachel Allen: Uh, they can find it out on my website at [00:23:00] boltfromthebluecopywriting.com or, um, just connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram. I’m happy to chat about it

Tim Melanson: Awesome. One more question now before we get into the, uh, the … And I’m not sure if you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna say about this, but what do you think about AI now with writing?

Rachel Allen: People ask me about this a lot. Um, I don’t have any, like, moral objection to it. Um, I know a lot of people get very upset at the idea of people using it, and I’m like, "Look, it’s your life. You do what you want with it." What I will say is I don’t use it in my own marketing, um, and I don’t use it for my clients because I have yet to find something that can do it, you know, as, as well or as fast as me, and there’s intellectual property risks because that…

You know, it’s changing, but right now the way the rulings are is if you create something using AI, you cannot own the intellectual property to it. So, like, I’m never gonna, like, give somebody a course that they can’t own. So that’s why I recommend that you avoid it in your creative endeavors

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I think that’s, uh… And, and that actually does make sense ’cause you didn’t actually create it. You ha- [00:24:00] used AI. Now, I imagine that there might be some probably gray area. I mean, if you’ve mostly given the AI the information, and it just sort of, like, fine-tuned it for you, well then maybe that’s an editor?

I don’t know. But,

Rachel Allen: Yeah. It’s still like, I don’t know, there’s stuff working their way through the courts, but the way that I recommend people to use it is, like, I think it’s a great thought partner. I think it can be good for getting you over that, like, blank page thing. Um, it’s good for starting you off on research, though of course you need to check it.

So it’s basically, it’s like having an intern. And what I mean by that, like, it’s an intern on their first day where they’re like, "Here’s this thing. It’s the most amazing thing ever." And you’re like, "Absolutely not. Remove this from my site. Do it again."

Tim Melanson: Yes, that’s a really good analogy. And, uh, it’s like having a whole lot of those interns that w- can work really fast, and that’s, that is great because, um, I know I’ve, I use it quite a bit, and it is fantastic at helping you to talk through [00:25:00] ideas and all these other things that you’d be just wasting someone’s time with.

But you can talk to the AI and kind of like flesh out your own stuff. But as for getting it to do stuff for you and, and write your, your book for you, or even your, uh… I mean, you really have to train it pretty fine tunely, and you might as well just do it yourself,

Rachel Allen: Exactly. And like, I don’t know, the thing I tell people, or I guess the, the pitfall I see people falling into with it is they lose their confidence and they think that it knows better than them, and I’m like, "Absolutely not. It’s just a tool." Like, your instinct is right. Whatever it is, you do know better.

And like run it by a person, you know?

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Now, uh, the, I, I think the good news, like, so right now I think we’re in a bit of a tr- transitionary period where it’s kinda like coming out like full strength right now and everybody’s using it for everything, and that’s great. But, um, it kind of gives you everybody the same stuff. So everybody’s content is starting to look kinda the same.

And so if you’re the [00:26:00] one who’s actually writing it yourself or you’re hiring someone like Rachel Dawson to write it, then your content is gonna start to stick out a little bit more, because now it’s gonna feel more real. I, I, I don’t know if that’s the right word.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm. Definitely.

Tim Melanson: So, so I do think that there’s a, like some silver lining.

I know that people are a little bit worried about it. Um, but I think that we’re kind of like just in that transitionary period where people are using it, and maybe it’s taking some jobs away from certain people at this particular moment, but that’s gonna flip right back, ’cause people do want that real person to work with, and they, and they know that it’s gonna sound better.

Rachel Allen: Oh, absolutely. And I mean, something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, there’s a quote from Brian Eno, bringing it back to music, and he was talking about how as soon as we learned how to make, um, like non-lossy sound on CDs and like other higher, um, type, uh, music, everybody wanted the pops and crackles from the records, right?

And so as soon as you learn how to get rid of it, it becomes a premium. It becomes something that people will pay extra for, and that’s [00:27:00] what we’re seeing right now. Anything that’s like a higher ticket offer that’s selling, it’s got a human on it. It has someone being visibly inconvenienced to sell it to you, and it’s that exact same thing.

It’s the pops on the records that people want

Tim Melanson: Ah, that’s an excellent analogy. I am stealing that one. That’s a good one.

Rachel Allen: I’ll send you the quote.

Tim Melanson: Perfect. Awesome. So then let’s go back to how we find, how we find you and, and what that process is on, on how to get started with work with… And not even just for the book. Like, you’ve g- got another business, right? Or other

Rachel Allen: I do, yeah. I, I got a couple buckets actually. Um, I mean, I write books on my own, I help people write books. I do a sort of, uh, super group offer with a bra- a branding specialist, um, where we build legacy businesses for people and we do the branding there. Um, and then I write everything at Bolt. So basically, if it’s words that make money, I do it.

Um, the easiest way is just to check me out at boltfromthebluecopywriting.com, connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, or you can just email me like it’s the ancient times, and I will email you back with my very own fingers.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Rachel Allen: Mm-hmm.

Tim Melanson: Can actually contact you [00:28:00] personally, that’s amazing. Awesome. So now before we go, one more question. This might be the hardest one. Let’s get into music a little bit. Who is your favorite rock star or band?

Rachel Allen: Ooh. Okay. Gosh, there’s so many. Um, what I’m gonna go with is the Drive-By Truckers. Um, so they’re Southern rock, a little outlaw, um, and I’ve listened to them since forever when they were coming through the Orange Peel in Asheville where I grew up. And I, what I love about them is that they talk about really hard, kind of awful things in a way that makes you feel good about yourself and, like, about your role and your, your power to be with them.

So I love them. I think they’re great

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow, that’s awesome. Okay. Have you s- you’ve seen them in concert then?

Rachel Allen: I have. Yeah, I’ve seen them a couple times.

Tim Melanson: And how was their show?

Rachel Allen: Amazing. It was incredible. I saw one of them, um, they were o- they, it was a psychobilly concert, so they had the Reverend Horton Heat open for them, and the dude’s like, the man’s bloodstream is 90% cocaine and, you know, [00:29:00] 10% caffeine. And so he’s, like, going to town on an electric guitar.

He’s standing up on the cello or standup bass while they’re playing it, and I was just like, "This is rad." And then the Drive-By Truckers came out, and it was even better. It was so good.

Tim Melanson: Oh, that’s awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rachel, for rocking out with me today. This has been a lot of fun

Rachel Allen: Yeah, it’s been awesome. Thanks for having me

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to the owner of For Your Eyes Only LLC, and we can see how he helps people. He’s the love doctor, so he’s a relationship expert. I’m really excited to be talking a little bit more about that.

Uh, but we are welcoming Anil Gupta to the show today. Anil, are you ready to rock?

Anil Gupta: I am.

I’m … We’re gonna band together,

Tim Melanson: We are Band together.

I like

Anil Gupta: we’re gonna, we’re gonna, gonna create a, an amazing tune that you can all listen to that I promise you will provide massive value for you today

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, we do always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Anil Gupta: So, you know, I was suicidal in 2008, and they said no. Uh, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because from there I started speaking on stages, five, 10, 15, 20, 100, 500, eventually 10,000 people. Wrote a [00:01:00] book… Wrote three bestseller books, actually. TEDx, Fox News, Sky TV, ABC, NBC, iHeartRadio, Harvard. You know, who would think a guy like me would end up at Harvard?

And it, it’s all because of that time, 2008 November, that I thought my life wasn’t worth it. So whatever you’re going through, know that this too shall pass, and it’s not what happens in life, it’s who you become. I– On that day, I changed my identity from money to love, and then when I changed it to love, I became a billionaire because I stopped using the currency of the United States of America and changed it to love, camaraderie, friendship, giving, generosity, playfulness, fun, gratitude, growth.

The simple things in life became the big things in life

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow, that’s amazing. Yeah, uh, this, this too shall pass, right? And, I [00:02:00] mean, you know, you, you think about that when the bad things are happening, but also the good things pass too, unfortunately. Uh, but I guess you have to have a bit of a, I don’t know, a, a level playing field here ’cause, I mean, if you get too excited about the good things, then it kinda drops you into a bit of a depression when they do pass, right?

Anil Gupta: Well, that’s, that’s what happened to the astronauts. You know, they, they’d go to the moon, they’d come back, they’d have this ticker tape, and then no one thought about them again, so they would go into these deep depressions. So the secret is, really it’s, it’s the happiness formula. Uh, you know, I’ve developed a formula for happiness, which is G times G times G.

Y- The first G, you have to give your time, your energy, your love, your commitment, your joy, your gift. And that’s what I started to do. I gave my stuff away. And then when you give, you feel good, and when you feel good, all the pain and suffering disappears.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Anil Gupta: And when you give, you feel good. The person receiving the gift receives endorphins.

They feel good. [00:03:00] The person observing the gift feels good. The person sharing the giving feels good. The person receiving the sharing feels good. The person observing the giving of the sharing feels good. So it has a huge effect. We never know what other people are going through. So if you play the right tune, if you can say the right words, someone’s life will change

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and isn’t it interesting that it seems as though the people who are the most quiet, the ones that don’t really say anything, sometimes are going through some pretty crazy things, right? And I, I mean, it’s, it’s just sad when you see somebody that you think was doing great, right? And then you find out that something happens to them, and it’s, it’s very, it’s very difficult to really know whether someone is going through something or not.

So you might as well just give anyway, right?

Anil Gupta: Yeah. And giving is just a smile, a thank you, helping them with something, you know, commenting [00:04:00] something, edifying them, m- making them laugh,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Anil Gupta: and you never know the impact we have on people. You see, people will always remember how you made them feel. One of my favorite stories is a young man, he’s at univer- he’s at school, and then he packs up his bags, and he’s going home and some kids were messing with him.

He th- his books fell on the floor, and then someone came and helped him put all his books back in his bag. And then seven, eight years later, he was valedictorian. He was doing a speech, and he said, "You know, eight years ago, you may not know, although I’m, you know, the head boy, the, you know, the valedictorian, I was on the verge of suicide, but my friend saved me by just befriending me in that moment, because I cleaned out my desk, I was going to end it that night, but I didn’t."

So whatever you’re going through, there’s someone there for you, and this too shall pass. [00:05:00] By you performing an act of kindness, we have no idea the difference we’re making to someone’s life

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. Wow. Well, okay, so now, I mean, there’s a bit of bad notes in th- in these stories as well. It seems like the good notes and the bad notes kinda intermingle a little bit, don’t they? But I, uh, I, I do wanna give you another opportunity to talk about these bad notes because I think a lot of people are held back by, by making a mistake.

You know, they’re worried that something’s not gonna work out well. And so I like to make sure that people know that, hey, you know what? You can still get success even though you’re gonna make some mistakes. So can you share with me another, some mistake that happened to you?

Anil Gupta: Well, obviously I’d lost all that money. There, there were many mistakes there. But I remember a friend of mine said, "Anil, you’ve helped me, you’ve helped my wife in, in our relationship. Why don’t you do an event?"

Tim Melanson: Hmm

Anil Gupta: And I sort of, I looked at him and said, "Well…" And he said, "What’s wrong?" I said, "I’m scared." And he said, "What are you scared about?"

I said, "What if no one turns up?" So I was so concerned what other people thought. [00:06:00] Then he said this to me, and it changed my life. "Anil, if no one turns up, no one will know." And I thought, "Ah, I love that."

Tim Melanson: Wow

Anil Gupta: that’s how it started. So always s- you know, the one thing I learned from Richard Branson was always say yes and work it out afterwards.

Tim Melanson: Yep

Anil Gupta: uh, someone asked me to speak in Medellin, Colombia, in a bullring, and he said, "Oh, there’s gonna be over 10,000 people there." I said, "Yeah, I’ll do it." When I got there, I thought, "What am I doing here? I can’t do this. I’m not good enough." And then I got out of my head. I,

Tim Melanson: Sorry, my

dog’s barking.

Anil Gupta: That’s okay. I disappeared, and my greatness appeared.

So when you disappear, let your greatness come out. You know, we- we- we’re very musically based today, and this is what happens when a musician plays. They [00:07:00] disappear, their greatness appears, and that’s what we need to do in life. Let go of the ego, let go of the fear, and just step into courage. When you do that, it’ll add more years to your life and more life to your years

Tim Melanson: That’s amazing. Amazing. If no one shows up, no one will know. I love that. That is so good. And, uh, you know, the other thing that you said that I really wanna touch on, too, is say yes and then figure it out. Ugh, so many times people will say no to an opportunity ’cause they don’t have it completely all figured out in their heads.

And I think, I think there is a little bit of, like, well, you gotta be prepared enough, I guess, to say… Like, I mean, don’t, you know, go off the deep end on this thing. But on the other hand, I mean, what better motivation than you have a gig booked? Like, I know in music when, when, uh, when I’m trying to, [00:08:00] uh, help new musicians get started, they’re like, "Oh, you know, I’m having a hard time, you know, putting a band together.

I’m having a hard time this." I always say to them the same thing. This is what I did. I booked the gig three months out, and then lo and behold, the band f- showed up ’cause, I mean, as, uh, a musician, you know, if someone comes to you and says, "I have a gig booked. It pays, and it’s on this date. Do you wanna do it?"

I’m in. But if it’s like, "Oh, I’ve got some things that we maybe might eventually start a band," well, it’s gonna be a little bit harder for you to find the people that are gonna join you if you don’t have anything solid. So it’s the same thing here, right? If you say yes to an opportunity, you got a gig booked.

Now it’s time to put things together, and you will be able to find people to help you, too, won’t you?

Anil Gupta: Yeah. And you know what happens? You start asking better quality questions. You ask yourself, "How can I get this done? What else can I do? Who can I ask?" Whereas if you don’t say yes, there’s, there’s no impetus. [00:09:00] There, there’s no compelling reason to do anything. You can just be comfortable about being comfortable.

And as human beings, we only make progress when we’re uncomfortable about anything. See, as human beings, we get comfortable about being comfortable, and what we need to do is become uncomfortable about being comfortable and get comfortable about being uncomfortable, and that’s when our greatness appears.

We make the biggest impact

Tim Melanson: Yeah, like what is it they say something about idle hands or something like that? Like, it, it’s just if you’ve got nothing going on, it, you get bored, you get in your head. If you’re way too busy, it, you, you get more done. I mean, they, they always say that is that whatever you have to get done, you know, sort of shrinks or grows to the amount of time you have to get it done, right?

Anil Gupta: Yeah.

And you know, there’s so much capacity within us that has not been tapped

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, so let’s talk a little bit about practicing, and this [00:10:00] can mean a lot of different things. I mean, in the, i- i- it, it can mean, you know, a, a personal care routine. It can also mean getting good and being good at what you do in your business. Uh, how do you, you know, approach practicing? Like, what do you do?

Anil Gupta: So, um, I go out and speak. I’m not a trained speaker, uh, but you have to start. So I started with me in the mirror, one person, five people, and you just have to practice, practice, practice. And as you get more comfortable, you, you get a download of so much energy, so much joy, so much content, so much clarity that it’s just like driving a car.

When you’re first driving, you’re very nervous, but eventually you become unconsciously competent. Meaning you’ll drive for an hour and think, "Oh, I can’t remember where I went," because you’re so good at it. [00:11:00] That’s the place you wanna get to, and the only way to do that is to, to do, to be, and to get into that state where you’re doing things repetitively.

You know, people say, uh, you know, they ask a question, "How many hours does it take to g- get good at something?" You’ll be shocked. You know what the answer is? Twenty hours. If you did something for twenty hours… Now, the secret is you have to do it in immersion, an hour a day, two hours a day. If you– Like I l- I tried to learn French at school, we would do an hour a week.

I didn’t learn very much until I went to France. That’s where I learnt everything. So you have to immerse yourself. Think about it. If you wanna be a better tennis player, twenty hours. If you want to be a better chess player, twenty hours. If you want a better musician, twenty hours. It’s less than a day. In just one day, your life can change

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s, uh, I didn’t know [00:12:00] that statistic, but I mean, 20 hours is, uh, is doable, and it’s one of those things that y- I imagine you, like you say, immersion, you have to get right into it because you are gonna learn more by being around musicians, for example, than trying to figure it out on your own.

Uh, although nowadays, in every area, including, uh, music, we’ve got YouTube. Like, there are ways that you can actually immerse yourself into something, you know, by actually seeing somebody, you know, and even better would be probably to get a person to teach you, right?

Anil Gupta: You know, the fastest way is through a mentor, a coach. So I’ve, I’ve coached Wimbledon, US Open champions, French Open, Italian Open champions, and each of them has a coach. And the coach will give you that 1% difference, and that’s the difference between number one and number three. And every day, the definition of success is make progress every day.

If you’re making progress, you’re being– you’re gonna get very [00:13:00] successful. You just have to get better and better, and the fastest way to do that is with a coach or a mentor. Someone who’s been there, done it before, can guide you and has the expertise and the results

Tim Melanson: Wow. How do you know whether the coach that you’ve got… ‘Cause I mean, there’s a lot of people that are calling themselves coaches nowadays, right? But how do you know whether you got a good one or not?

Anil Gupta: You ask them for credentials. Where have they spoken? Do you have any video testimonials? Never accept a written testimonial. Show me 50 video testimonials. "Well, I, I don’t have 50." Show me what stages you’ve spoken on. Let me hear you speak. Give me one tip right now that would change my life.

And if they can’t do it… Uh, so Tim, let me, uh, give you a recent example. I was coaching a client, and I asked her, "How long have you been using this therapist?" She said, "Three years." [00:14:00] And I said, "You’ve been using this person for three years, and you’re in this predicament, and you called me, and in 20 days we’ve done this.

I’ve saved your marriage. We’ve saved your marriage. We’ve resolved some issues. We’ve handled this. We’ve handled that, and we’ve handled this." And she wrote me a note yesterday, "Thank you for saving my life. Thank you for giving me my, back my marriage." That’s what you want. You want someone who’s got credibility.

Don’t look for initials after their name. I don’t care what initials you have after your name. Can you do what I want you to do? Can you do it quickly? Can you prove that you can do it? Do people believe you can do it? Do you have expertise?

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. And so now if we, if we flip that to the other side, let’s just say that someone is looking to get into the coaching industry. So then how would they start to get these testimonials if they don’t have the credentials yet or the testimonials yet?

Anil Gupta: I didn’t have them, so [00:15:00] I, I would coach for free. I would say to people, "Hey, can I coach you, guide you, nurture you, mentor you? And if you like what I say, would you give me a, a testimonial?" You, you have to get started. If you wanna climb a mountain, you’ve got to take the first step, and, uh, it’s painful because you’re giving away things, but you feel good.

But also, you’re getting ready to be the best version of you. You’re, you’re, you’re tweaking, defining, cleaning up, learning, growing, becoming even more successful, and making an even better quality deliverable

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, that goes back to your first point about just getting out there and doing it and speaking. Like, I mean, y- you’re 100% right. You don’t really know… Like, in, in music, I mean, I can sit in my basement and practice all I want, and I might even get it perfect in the basement, right? But then as soon as you get on a stage, everything’s different.

Like, it’s, it’s very, very different, and all of a sudden you can’t even do the things that you could do in your basement, right? Uh, so, [00:16:00] uh, it’s, I imagine, well, it, it is the same with any business too. Like, you can practice all you want alone, and that’s great. You know, you will get to a certain point. But really, the real learning comes from getting out there and actually doing it with live scenarios.

And, uh, I know that, uh, one of the things that I do notice, and maybe you’ve got a comment on this, is, uh, you know, when I’m hosting open mics and open jams and stuff like that, sometimes you’ll have people that are a little bit scared. They’re, they’re like, "Okay, I don’t know if I wanna go on stage." It’s their first time, right?

They get up on stage, and then, uh, you know, the s- the song goes okay, right? We’ll say that, that it’s, it’s good, but it could h- it could improve, right? There are certain people that come off the stage and they are addicted. They wanna get right back up on stage. And then there’s other people that are like, "I’m never doing that again."

What do you think would be the difference between those two people?

Anil Gupta: See, uh, everything that we do, we do for one reason only, [00:17:00] and that’s for the feeling it gives us. We have a nice meal, a great relationship, a nice car, a nice house, money in the bank for the feeling it gives us. So if you go on stage and you feel great, you can lap up the energy. You f- you feel, you know, important, you feel heard, you feel listened to, you feel you’re making a difference, that’s gonna energize you.

But if you’re feeling, "Oh, this– they’re judging me. I’m, I’m not a good speaker. I don’t feel comfortable," that’s okay. Maybe that’s not your, your gig, so to speak, but it’s, it’s around the feeling. I remember when I started, uh, speaking, I, I, I was very uncomfortable. It, it was actually at university. I thought, "Why am I doing this?"

It was part of the course. But then as I started to, to go on stage, I felt good because I disappeared. I started helping people. When you help someone, that’s when you, when you feel good. And you know, if you’re a musician, there’s someone out there that, that is [00:18:00] resonating with you, and you’re changing their lives.

So the more you speak, the more you play your notes, the, the more you’re out there, the more difference you’re gonna make

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I think, like, one thing that we don’t, I don’t think enough about, I think, is that everybody’s at a different stage in their journey, right? Some people are v- just getting started. Some people might be, like, well on their way. And for somebody who is getting on stage for that first time and doing their thing, well, there’s somebody in the audience that hasn’t done that yet.

And they’re actually starting to feel a little bit inspired by you going out there and getting on that stage and trying something out for the first time. And so you never know who you’re inspiring by getting up there, even if you’re very, very new in your journey, ’cause there’s somebody who’s fur- who’s n- not quite as far as you are, right?

Anil Gupta: Yeah, always. And you know, there are only two types of people on the planet, ones that make you happy when you enter a room, ones [00:19:00] that make you happy when you leave a room. Ones that, ones that make you happy when they get on stage, ones that make you happy when they get off the stage. And, and it’s okay.

It’s okay. We, w- you know, sometimes I look at people say, "Ah, if he can do it, I can do it. If she can do it, I can do it." So we never know who we’re inspiring. We never know the difference we’re making

Tim Melanson: Yep. Yeah, it, yeah, because that’s exactly it. Sometimes people might be looking at you and going like, "Wow, if that person can do it, I can do it." They’re inspired. And then the other side of it is, "Wow, that person’s really good. I just learned so much from them." S- you know, two different people on the stage, two different, uh, journeys, and you’re still inspiring people, right?

Anil Gupta: Yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, to be able to change someone’s life, to me

is the greatest thing you can do

Tim Melanson: Right on. Let’s talk about the tools that we use for success. What are the, what are some of the

things that you do to achieve the success in your career?

Anil Gupta: Yeah. So o-one of the tools I have is this one [00:20:00] sentence: Be so amazing that you cannot be ignored, and if you’re ignored, it doesn’t matter because you’re showing up the best version of you. See, a lot of us are playing small. We’re comfortable about being comfortable But there’s so much greatness inside of us.

We need to disappear, let our greatness appear. Be so amazing. So today I was playing pickleball, and I spilled some coffee on the floor. I could have left it there, but I thought, "Anil, you have to be so amazing." So I, I used my foot to try and clean it, but it was still slippery. "Anil, could you be more amazing?"

I said, "I suppose I could." So I got some tissues, and I cleaned it right up. So that creates, uh, a pathway for me to be the best version of me by being able to focus on other people

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And it’s the little wins too, right? People, you know, if, if you leave those little things, like a spot on the [00:21:00] floor or maybe your desk uncleaned, that sort of spirals into other things. Whereas, on the other hand, if you could make a check mark next to that and say, "Yeah, I did that well," it just inspires you to do more, doesn’t it?

Anil Gupta: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, again, on the pickleball court, there’s a friend of mine who, who has a problem with his hamstring, and I said, "You should get a, a thigh support. You should get a thigh support." He hasn’t done it I have one here. I’ve, I brought in one. I’m gonna give it to him tomorrow. He, he … I care for him.

I didn’t have to do it. Why should I do it? It’s his life. But no, that’s been so amazing you cannot be ignored

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s amazing too. Oh, okay, so it’s time for your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your business right now

Anil Gupta: So I’m really excited about a program I’m releasing. Um, it’s helping singles find their ideal partner without [00:22:00] dating. It’s called the Smart Select System. You see, people say yes to a relationship until it becomes a no, and that’s not the way to do it. It’s a– it, it’s no until a yes. You’ve got to collect the data.

You’ve got to make an informed choice. You’ve got to know how to talk to people, how to c-collect the data, interpret the data, and look for people who are not telling you the truth, and then analyzing and making a decision. M-my daughter used this process. First boyfriend she married, he’s a twelve out of ten.

I use this process. I’ve been married, you know, thirty-seven years, seven months and nine days, not that I’m counting. But if you use the formula, everything works. It’s called the Smart Select System. What if your next partner was the right one? What if your next partner gave you [00:23:00] total certainty because you made the right choice?

It’s all about choices, my friends.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. Why do you think people s- have so much trouble with relationships?

Anil Gupta: Well, imagine, you know, you, you’ve got a child and your friend’s got, you know, you meet some, uh, other kids. What, what do parents say to their children? "Oh, is that your boyfriend? Is that your girlfriend?" At the age of two, three, four. It’s ridiculous. You know? You, you’re not ready for a relationship until at least 19, 20, 21.

Uh, my daughter was telling me her friends have relationships at the age of 13. They break up, they, they’re fighting, then they have another one, then another one. And each time they think this is the one, this is … Well, no. They have no idea. Focus on being a child. Focus on having fun. Focus on the most important things at the time.

You have [00:24:00] plenty of time. You have 80 years of relationship ahead of you. There’s no rush. But we’re indoctrinated through media, through television, uh, this romance. You think, "Oh, this is so romantic." No. It … You’re making one of the biggest decisions of your life. You can’t just base it on the feeling of, "I think this is right.

I feel good." No. You’ve got to collect the data, and it’ll stop a lot of pain and suffering

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I, I couldn’t agree more with that. That’s a… Yeah, and, uh, w- we also have this sort of, like, negative stigma towards being single as well, and, "Oh, you don’t have a relationship? Like, what, what’s wrong with you?" Right? And I mean, meanwhile, you know, you have so many people that are staying in relationships that are even abusive.

Like, I, I mean, I mean, it, it, it blows my mind that not only can it not be the right person, but it actually can hurt you, and they’re staying in because it’s better than being sing- single, I guess[00:25:00]

Anil Gupta: Well, a-again, it’s what other people think of them. They, they, they, they … The feeling that they get from having a relationship is far greater than the feeling of not being in a relationship. They don’t wanna be judged. They don’t wanna be criticized. They don’t wanna be complained to. And it’s sad that, you know, people would choose that.

And it’s okay not to have a relationship. You’re not gonna … You’re not alone. You’re not lonely. You just haven’t found the right person, and there’s no rush. If, you know, if, if you … You know, the most important part of a race is not the start, it’s the finish. So if you’re 30 or 35 and then you find the right partner, you have 65 years of a beautiful relationship.

But if you make it the wrong decision and you start having kids, it, it’s the most painful, painful situation you could ever imagine. See, emotional pain is far more painful than [00:26:00] physical pain. So there’s no rush, but we’re indoctrinated in having to do that. So if you put five crabs in a bucket and one tries to leave, the other four will pull it down.

We’re made to feel so guilty. What’s wrong with you? You know, if you have four couples and a single, he, he feels guilty. He feels different. He thinks, "Oh, I wanna fit in. I, I wanna belong." And that’s one of the issues that people have nowadays

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And meanwhile, you know, chances are the, many of those couples, probably not all of them, but, but many of them are not actually happy with what they’re doing, and the single might actually be happy. And the only thing that they’re not happy about is the stigma that they have, that they carry about being single, right?

Anil Gupta: Absolutely. It, it, it’s a, it’s a terrible state to be in, but it’s human nature

Tim Melanson: It is. It is. So tell me a little bit more about,

like, what, what is it like to work with you? Like, what, how does that work?

Anil Gupta: So, um, the, my promise is this. [00:27:00] If, if you work with me, w- you have a session with me, I promise you, you, you will learn something that will enhance your life. Guaranteed. And if, if it doesn’t, next call is free. So my, my, my gift is this. I can remove the obstacles that are preventing you from leading a richer, fuller, happier life.

When we do work together, it’ll add more years to your life and more life to your, your years. You’ll get clarity. You will never make the wrong choice in a partner. And how much joy would that bring you? How much suffering would that save you? And that’s my gift. Uh, uh, I’m able to do that

Tim Melanson: So do you work with, with singles looking for a relationship or people already in a relationship? What’s, h- which one

Anil Gupta: So I, I, I help singles find their ideal partner through the smart select system, but I also help couples and families get clarity, learn a [00:28:00] language, communicate, overcome the obstacles so that there’s more harmony and unity in the family. So any obstacle that’s preventing you from having a richer love life or a richer feeling of love, I’m the guy

Tim Melanson: Wow. Okay. And if you’re working with a couple, do both partners have to be kind of buying in on this, or would you work with one part of the couple to help them?

Anil Gupta: So, um, it can b- work both ways. Normally, I would work with one person, and then as I work with that person and as they implement my techniques, the other person notices, "Hey, my husband’s being very more attentive. He’s listening to me more. He’s, he’s understanding me more. He’s doing more." So then she’s thinking, "What’s going on?"

And then I would invite her onto a call with the husband, and then h- that’s how it all starts. But there [00:29:00] has to be a change the other person sees. Once they see the change, it’s a no-brainer because the c- compounding effect of that over many years is enormous

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And, and doesn’t that seem to be the case, well, with just about anything, even just business, is that you can’t change anybody else. The only thing you can do is change yourself, right? And I think that’s uncomfortable for a lot of people, thinking that, "Well, I’m the problem," so they’re not… They’re trying to avoid being the problem, I guess would probably be why they decide to not make the change on their side.

Um, but I don’t think it’s, I don’t think that’s the way you’d put it. What is it?

Anil Gupta: No, and you know, it’s easy

to say, "Oh, can you fix my wife?"

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Anil Gupta: And w- "I don’t wanna do the work, but can you fix her?" You know, it’s all about her, and honestly, it’s not. You know, for example, I would l- always leave the toilet seat up, and then she, my wife would complain. But I, I said, "I’m not gonna change. I’m not gonna change."

Then one day she said this to me, "Honey, every time you do [00:30:00] that, I can’t love you as much." And I thought, "Oh, that’s a bit steep." Then I thought, "No, she’s right," and then I changed, and when I changed, she changed. If, if you want your partner to change, you have to change. Once you change, they will change. It’s so easy

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And o- on the other side, maybe if you put the s- the seat down, she can, she can definitely love you enough. Maybe, maybe the positive, uh, reinforcement, right?

Anil Gupta: Uh, it, it, I, I would remind her. Um, yeah, the other thing, I recently fractured my, my wrist and I couldn’t put the toothpaste tube, toothpaste on my, uh, toothbrush, and she would do it for me.

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Anil Gupta: You know? It’s the simple thing. It’s the small things that are the big things

Tim Melanson: Yep. Yeah, it is. And I mean, we see that on the opposite side too, right? ‘Cause I mean, isn’t it kind of the small things that really make people blow up in- into something? Like, it’s not … The, the big things, I think people can kind of like grasp [00:31:00] that this is a crisis and they have to deal with it, and they’re a little bit more patient, I guess.

But the little things are the ones that really just kinda grind on you, right?

Anil Gupta: Yeah, the, the really the breaking point, you know, it, it just builds and builds and builds and human beings, we’re really good at stacking, so we can stack all the negative stuff, but we’re not good at stacking the positive stuff, so we focus on the negative. And if, if, for example, if you have a good wolf on your right shoulder and a bad wolf on your left shoulder, which one will win?

Tim Melanson: The one you feed.

Anil Gupta: The one you feed. So start feeding the good wolf. Start feeding the good habits. Start feeding the giving, the gratitude, the growing, and your life will change

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Uh, I agree with that for sure. Awesome. So now, uh, how, how do people get to work with you? Is it like a group program? Is it one-on-one coaching? Like, h- how does this work?

Anil Gupta: The, the, the, the best and fastest way is one-on-one coaching with me. And if you need to, [00:32:00] uh, have a conversation with me, you can book a time with me, chatwithaneil.com. It’ll s- book you a time with me. We’ll have a conversation. I’ll show exactly what I can do. And in that call, you will experience a positive shift towards leading a richer, fuller, happier life.

Because I have to prove to you that it’s worth working with me. I have to, and I will

Tim Melanson: Awesome. All right, chatwithaneel.com. That’s awesome. All right, we’re gonna shift gears a little bit and get into music for just a few minutes. So tell me, who is your favorite rock star or band?

Anil Gupta: Uh, I like Queen, I like The Beatles,

I like Simon & Garfunkel, The Carpenters They’re probably my top, top ones

Tim Melanson: Wow. Have you seen any of them live in concert before?

Anil Gupta: I’ve seen The Beatles here in Orlando. Oh my goodness me.

Tim Melanson: Oh.

Anil Gupta: had a wonderful experience. And I tell you what happened, I [00:33:00] was in the nosebleeds, and I, uh, then I went down to, um, to get some food and I saw some people leaving the two and a half thousand dollar ticket, uh, area. And I said, "Hey, are you leaving?"

And they said, "Yes." I said, "What are you doing with your ticket?" They said, "Here you go." So they gave us their tickets. They left early, you know, maybe half an hour early. So we got to be front row and it was magical. It was magical experience. This was maybe about five, 10 years ago. It was, um Yeah, uh, I can’t believe how old that man is, and he’s still rocking and rolling

Tim Melanson: Oh, right on. So you saw Paul McCartney then?

Anil Gupta: No, no, no. Hold, hold on, hold on. It wasn’t The Beatles

Ah.

Oh my

Tim Melanson: Stones?

Anil Gupta: Rolling Stones.

Tim Melanson: Yes.

Anil Gupta: Rolling Stones. [00:34:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah

Tim Melanson: Yes, they are still touring. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, could’ve

Anil Gupta: I was amazed. I was amazed. Yeah

Tim Melanson: Y- yeah, I’ve seen the Rolling Stones as well, and what a show they put on. That was incredible. And like you say, I think it was probably about 10 years ago. Uh, no, uh, maybe, maybe 15 now that I think about it.

But I mean, uh, still I mean, they’re such… Still rocking. It’s so cool

Anil Gupta: Yeah, great value. You know, so much energy. It’s not like they were, they were jumping up and down and being, you know, so extroverts. Unbelievable experience

Tim Melanson: Right on. Wow, that’s amazing. Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Anil. This has been a lot of fun

Anil Gupta: No, thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed it very much

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the guests, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Today, I am talking to the owner of Matt O’Neill Real Estate. He’s also, uh, Tide Property Management, and also he’s a happiness coach. Super excited to hear more about that. But what he does is he helps people get out of the nine to five.

So I’m super excited to be rocking out today with Matt O’Neill. Hey, Matt, are you ready to rock?

Matt O’Neill: What’s up, Tim? Ready to rock

Tim Melanson: Ready to rock. So we always start off here on a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, man. I, uh, I thought I was gonna be an engineer my whole life because my dad was an engineer, my older brother was an engineer, my little brother became an engineer, and I was going to school for engineering. And, uh, I went actually on an internship to General Motors as an engineer, and I hated it. It was the w- it was like, it was like a slow death in a cubicle.

And I thought, "Man, I can’t do this." Like, I can’t, I can’t do this for the rest of my life, [00:01:00] this like stuck in a cubicle, pushing spreadsheets, trying to work up this corporate ladder And, uh, I w- I went back to s- to college that fall, and I walked into what I thought was, like, a, a fun department, the marketing department.

I’m like, "Man, this might be more fun than engineering." And this guy grabbed me at the front desk as I’m trying to talk to the girl about becoming a marketing major, and he’s like, "You know what? You should take my sales course." And I’m like, "Dude, I’m way above sales. Like, I’m an engineer, you know? This is… I, I’m not gonna be some salesperson."

And he said, "Well, you can say that, but you do need to sell your marketing ideas to the CEO, so my sales course will help you with that." He was a great salesman, by the way. His name’s Jim Eckert. He runs the sales department at Western Michigan University. I signed up for his course, and then I fricking loved it.

Like, I, I… It was just like, it was so fun because I like talking with people, and I enjoyed the psychology behind it. So bec- I switched my [00:02:00] major to sales. And then getting out of college, I took a 9:00 to 5:00 sales job because, you know, it’s kind of like the path. You, you get out of college, you take a job.

And then it was soul-crushing as well. I was selling the toner cartridges that go inside of copy machines,

Tim Melanson: Wow,

Matt O’Neill: and nobody cares, man. And it… And they weren’t even new toner cartridges. I was selling ones that were recycled. So we took old garbage out of the garbage in these recycled toner cartridges and filled them back in with toner, and then that’s what I sold through the streets of Denver, Colorado.

And the bosses were really, like, on, on us. Like, super oppressive. It was a Christmas Eve afternoon, like 4 o’clock or 3 o’clock, and we’re goofing around and laughing in the office because it’s Christmas Eve. And the boss comes out of his office and yells at us to get back to work. Like, it was total Scrooge scenario.

And I thought, "Okay, I can’t keep doing this, man." [00:03:00] So, um, I did love sales, but I just didn’t like that type of environment. So I thought, "How could I work for myself and use this skill that I enjoy?" And I decided I would get into real estate because no boss, right? And I can sell, and there’s nobody to r- you know, basically you are your own business owner.

So I got into real estate. But then what I didn’t know was that I would have 40 bosses, because every client that hired me was now my boss. And so I worked into this situation where I was really successful and learned a bunch about how to sell real estate, but my weekends weren’t actually free. It wasn’t the freedom I thought it was gonna be.

Um, people were upset, or, like, somebody was supposed to show their house and didn’t show up, and they’re calling me on a Saturday night, like, drunk and, and so upset about this thing that happened. Or somebody let the cat out. And I’m like, "Wow, how did I go from one [00:04:00] boss to 40 bosses?" And, um, then I thought, "Okay, so there’s gotta be a better way than this."

And I thought, "I will, I will teach other people how to sell the real estate, and so they can have all the bosses." And I did that, and started to just hire a bunch of people, and then let them work with the clients and train them. And that’s, that’s one of the things I do now. Um, it’s just, uh, there is a, there’s a book called The Cashflow Quadrants that was written by Robert Kiyosaki,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Matt O’Neill: and he, he talked about the first quadrant is you work for somebody, and the next quadrant is you work for yourself, and that’s what I was when I was that real estate agent.

The next quadrant is you own a business. And I really didn’t own a business because all the people that worked for me selling real estate, they, they count on me, so I have a job. Even though I can… I’m in, I’m in my home right now, and they’re out there doing their thing, I still, I still need, um, you know, [00:05:00] I still need to, to coach them and help them and train them and all that stuff.

So I thought, "What is a business that has recurring cashflow that I could, that I could own and not work in?" So three years ago, we started a property management company, and that is a true B quadrant asset where I hired somebody to, to run it. I hired people to, to sell in it. I hired people to do all of it.

And I just sit back as an owner, not a CEO, and let those people run this particular company, and it’s, and it’s becoming really successful. I’ve got a lot of experience in sales and marketing and all these things that I learned over the years running a real estate company. So I’ll guide them and give them some advice, like I’m, I’m like on their board.

But, um, that is a true work from home style business asset

Tim Melanson: Wow. Matt, that was such a great story. [00:06:00] And you know what? I, I have a similar story, too, and I hope people listening can get that. It’s like every time you get to one point, you’re like, "Okay, that’s what I thought I wanted, but now I need to refine that." You keep on refining and refining and refining until you get to the point where you’re actually free, because I think a lot of people will get there.

And w- what I want to take out of that story specifically is that y- instead of quitting, right, and going like, "Wow, obviously this is not what I thought it was gonna be," and going back to the job, you just keep on refining a little bit more and getting a little bit closer to what it is that you wanted, right?

And that, I think that’s the key, is that it’s not a matter of, like, you- you’ll never get there. It’s just a matter of, like, it takes, uh, it’s one step at a time, right? That you learn something from what you just did, and you go, "Okay, well, now I have 40 bosses. What’s the next step," right? And I love that about the story.

It was so good for that, right?

Matt O’Neill: Well, I wanna, I wanna say something to the person listening to this that is thinking about [00:07:00] this but is really scared.

Tim Melanson: 嗯。

Matt O’Neill: Every step I was terrified. So when I had the 9:00 to 5:00 job selling the toner cartridges, I was making good money. To quit that and become a real estate agent, which I knew nothing about, and there was no paycheck coming in, was a terrifying step.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Matt O’Neill: And then once I had all those clients, and though, though I didn’t like it, that paid my bills, and I’ve got four kids and a wife and a mortgage and all the other things. And I’m like, "If I stop serving these clients, that income goes away, and yeah, I’m taking a bet that I could hire people to do it, but I don’t know if that’s gonna work."

So there’s risk behind every one of th- these decisions. You know, just deciding to start a property management company, there was huge risk with that. I was paying somebody’s salary with no clients and no income. So there was, there was an, it was an investment into an idea that I thought could work but might not.

So the person that’s [00:08:00] listening to this that has this idea in their heart, my opinion is God wouldn’t give you a vision that you couldn’t accomplish. So the idea is there, but what’s standing in the way is massive fear that you could lose what you have and it might not work

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yep, uh, yeah, that. And I, I mean, ’cause when I was… I, I think my experience was that I got into the tech industry, actually I was a programmer, and it was right when the bubble was bursting. And so that safe job was not there ever, ever. I, I mean, I started working, and within a few months they started laying people off.

So I think for me, I was in that… I, I, I never felt like, oh… It was always like, "Oh, okay, I got a paycheck for another two weeks. I’m, I’m okay for now," right? So there was some fear where I currently was, right? So the fear of the next step of, like, breaking out on my own wasn’t that much different. I- it was just [00:09:00] now instead of me sitting there and going like, "I can’t do anything about it."

Like, I mean, if that, if I get laid off, I, I, I can’t… There’s nothing I can do. I can’t work harder and try to keep that job, right? So when I started my own business though, I could work harder. I could, you know, sort of like pivot and like, "Okay, well maybe I can do this. May-" Like, there was lots of other ideas that I could have that could change my outcome over the next two weeks versus sitting in that cubicle and going like, "Hope they don’t lay me off," right?

Matt O’Neill: You, you bring up a point that most people in a nine-to-five never consider. They think… Because I, I’ve, I, I hire people who have nine-to- fives all the time to become real estate agents and, and be independent business owners as a real estate agent, which you are. You, you basically are running your own business when you’re an agent.

And they’re always like, "Yeah, but I got a paycheck every two weeks." And I, and, and I say the same thing that you just brought up. It doesn’t matter how safe you think it is, someone else could [00:10:00] fire you at any moment. And if they do, yes, you can go get a new job, but that safety that you think you have is this illusion.

Once you create your own thing, no one can take it from you. It’s completely up to you, and if you bet on yourself and you know that you’re willing to put in the work, then, then you have more freedom than the person that thinks they have this security with this nine-to-five. Like, I think there’s more security being a business owner than there is working for somebody

Tim Melanson: I, I agree with that for sure. Although it’s probably harder to see until you’re there, right?

Matt O’Neill: Or until you get fired, it, you know, or whatever. Your business implodes and you didn’t see it coming, or your boss decides that he’s got an issue with you and you didn’t know that that was happening, and

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Matt O’Neill: taken from you, and you’re like, "Oh, that, this was a false sense of s- of security."

I was just on a podcast last week with somebody that was a C-level member of some international [00:11:00] corporation. The corporation merged with another corporation, and then they downsized the C-suite. And he’s like, "Man, I, I put in 20 years." And, you know, you would think you work your way up that corporate ladder and you’re at this big level, and the corporation’s doing great under your leadership, that you’re safe.

Uh, but it, you know, cor- corporations can merge, and then they can downsize people. Like, it’s, it’s just out of… It was out of his control

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, now also with taking those risks, sometimes things don’t go as planned, and I do like to talk about the bad notes because that is another fear. People are like, "Well, what if I make a mistake," right? Uh, and, and those mistakes will happen, and I’m wondering, can you share with me something that didn’t go as planned and how you recovered from that?

Matt O’Neill: Absolutely. Yeah, so I s- uh, I started a, a home flipping business three years ago and I thought, "Oh, this’ll [00:12:00] be, this’ll be fun. This’ll be something new. Uh, I’ll have the agents that are out there f- looking at properties, and if they see one that they think would be a good property that, that we could purchase and then put some, you know, some, uh, money into and then turn around and sell it, that I’d split the profits with them."

And so we ended up with 26 in the first year, and it was, it was going what we thought really well, and I… But to get the loans for all these properties, I used hard money, and we had 4 million in, in loans out. And something that I couldn’t see coming, the government decided to double interest rates in 30 days, and we’re sitting on 13 mid-construction properties, and all of a sudden they’re worth way less than we purchased them for after we’re putting 50, 60, 100K into each of them.

And my wife is sitting there [00:13:00] with me as we’re looking at this impossible situation. We’re like, "Man, we don’t have $4 million to pay these loans off, and all these properties, I can’t just put on the market and sell. They’re all, like, studs and construction sites." And, and even when we’re finishing them, we’re, we’re having to bring 60,000 in cash or 100,000 in cash to the table just to get out of it.

And she’s like, "Man, they might take our house." And I said… I’m like, "That, this was a, this was a riskier situation than I expected." the, the, and this was, uh… It was a really tough situation for us to be in. Um, at that moment, I thought, "Man, I didn’t, I didn’t think I was betting it all." It just seemed like a good business venture, that I know real estate, I know these, I know what houses are worth.

What I couldn’t see was what I couldn’t see. I couldn’t see that the government would double interest rates and then values would plummet in 30 days. Like, I… That was, that [00:14:00] was what would seem like a black swan event that you couldn’t see coming. Um, ultimately, we ended up taking our lumps, and one at a time I sold each of the properties for losses, and we got out.

And it was July, I think. It took me, like, eight months to finish them and then just, and, and just get out of it. And then, and then that was great. We got the $4 million paid off. We lost a bunch of money. Um, but I didn’t lose it all. The 4 million in, in hard money would’ve, would’ve taken us out, but there was enough as we sold them that we got it back that we could pay the, the, the loans off and get out of that tough situation.

What I learned from that was, um, don’t risk your house.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. It’s a good lesson.

Matt O’Neill: It was a great lesson, and I, and I promised my wife I’d never do that to us again. I just read this awesome book on finances by Morgan Housel, um, called The [00:15:00] Psychology of Money, and he had a line in there that I circled and circled and then wrote down and then thought about a whole lot because of the experience I had.

And he said, "Don’t risk money you do need chasing after returns you don’t need."

Tim Melanson: Wow

Matt O’Neill: And he said, and it was exactly what I did. I, I needed money to keep my house and have a place for my kids to live, but I didn’t need the extra returns from this home flipping company. So could we have flipped maybe two or three homes at a time instead of 13 at a time?

Absolutely. I just didn’t… And this is what he said. He, um, he said, "During the course of the United States’ GDP, it’s always up and to the right," and he had, like, 200 years of up and to the right. And then he said, "During this 200 years of up and to the right, we’ve had five major world wars, four presidents have been assassinated, the market has dropped by 10% or more 100 times.

The market has dropped by 33% or [00:16:00] more, like, 30 times." He said, "So whatever bet you’re about to make with leverage and debt, can you, can you hold this thing if everything drops by 30% in value?" And he said, "If you can’t, then you shouldn’t make that bet." And that’s exactly what happened to us, is I’m holding a bag of $4 million and everything I thought w- had value had dropped by 30%.

It was just one of those black swan moments for real estate that you can’t… And this is, it’s his whole point. You can’t see coming the next president assassination or major war that, that’s gonna happen, that’s gonna disrupt everything, or COVID, the pandemic that can come and change the world. So, um, that would be the lesson there, is that if you’re gonna make a bet, make sure you can withstand a 30% drop.

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s… I can’t even add to that. That’s incredibly good, good sense, right? And, uh, and I think that that ends up being something that does happen to people who are, well, I mean, [00:17:00] a lot of us entrepreneurs are, I, I don’t know, wanna say overconfident, but maybe overconfident is the right word, right? We, we, we have this very, very positive outlook of what could happen, which is why we’re in business in the first place, right?

We, we, we didn’t let the fear stop us. And so oftentimes we can be presented with these opportunities that we’re seeing and we’re going like, "Wow, I can’t lose," right? But the thing is is that, like you just said, there are circumstances around us that do happen. Like, okay, fine, we do have the control to pivot and to move and all that stuff, but, but also there are some things that are gonna happen throughout the term of your business that you can’t see happening, and there has to be some sort of- Mitigation of that, right?

And I, I think that’s really, really good sense. If it’s 30%, that’s a really good number. It’s clear, right? If we can just sort of keep that in mind, can I lose 30% and still be okay? I don’t want [00:18:00] to, but that, that is a good place to start, and I like that. Thanks for that. That’s a really good one

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, in 2008 and 2009 I was in real estate, and, um, I- a lot of people took their life during that time because they… I mean, this is just, they weren’t able to… They were over-leveraged.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Matt O’Neill: And, um, and I saw people just filing for bankruptcy. I saw people losing their house. I saw people doing short sales. It was a very…

It was just really common. And people that were well over-leveraged were, were in big trouble. And then, and if you tie your worth to your net worth, it’s gonna be a bad situation. But we do need this money to survive, and sometimes we think, "Oh, I’m not gonna make it." Um, but I, I thought at that time, I’m like, "Okay, I’m not gonna over-leverage," and then I still did it.

And it’s exactly what you said, man. We… To be, to start your own business, you have to have a level of boldness to get u- through the [00:19:00] fear, and you have to have a level of confidence and optimism it’s gonna work. So, and this is what Sean Housel, or, I’m sorry, Morgan Housel talks about in his book too. He says, "The thing that will get you in trouble is always over-leveraging and over-optimism."

Tim Melanson: Um, yeah

Matt O’Neill: you have to have a le- he said getting rich requires boldness and optimism. He said staying wealthy requires some cynicism and skepticism

Tim Melanson: Oh, man. So good. So good. And I can, I can map all my mistakes to that, all of them, every single one of them. The big ones can all be mapped to me just being overconfident and going, "Yeah, yeah, I’ll be fine."

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, so, so I, I wanna, I wanna finish this whole thought and put a bow on it. Um, the… So he’s like, "All right, you still have to take risk. You have to, because that’s what got you here." But he, he said, he said, "I want you to think of your money as a barbell, and one part of the barbell is the money [00:20:00] you need to survive.

So this is the money for your home, the money for your groceries, the money that takes care of your family. That you can never touch." And so whatever that amount is, maybe it’s six months worth of savings, or, um, maybe it’s paying off the house, which is what s- when we got, when we got out of the big mess and we paid all the loans off, the next thing we did is we said, "We’ll pay this house off."

And that was, like, our intense focus so that if the house is paid off, they could never take the place that we live, and that… And, and we were able to do that in a couple of years and, um… But then what’s crazy, man, it came, it crept back in again. Uh, a huge deal showed up. I’m like, "Oh, this is a winner." And I’m like, "We’ll just mortgage the house and get…"

And my wife is like, "No. You said, you said it’s a barbell. This is the money that makes us safe. The house we’ve paid off, so you can’t touch that." And so once you have your one piece that keeps you safe, whatever that amount is, you don’t touch it, [00:21:00] and then you risk the stuff that’s above that. Um, so that’s, so as long as I can remember that, I’m saying it out loud here on this podcast so that I stick with it.

Tim Melanson: And having a sane spouse is a good thing too, right?

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, she, and she, she is overly cautious, which totally balances out my boldness

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, my spouse is the same thing. She’s very, very cautious, and exactly what you just said, "You said that we needed this part about…" And I, I’m, I’m like, "Oh, you’re right, I did say that. Okay, fine."

Matt O’Neill: And, and you respect her, and I respect my wife. And I’m like, "Man," I’m like, "We are a really good team." I’m like, "I…" So the reason I was five minutes late jumping on is that I was looking at a triplex that hit the market this morning, and the l- the fourth quadrant of the cashflow quadrants is I, which is investor, where I don’t own a business, I own investments.

And I, I went and looked at this triplex. It just looked like a great deal, and my wife [00:22:00] is like, "Well, where is the cash from the triplex gonna come from?" And she’s all stressed about that. And I said, "Well, I own this other piece of real estate in cash, and it has a value of 400,000, so I’ll take a small note out on that, and that’ll be the down payment, and this property will cashflow."

And she’s like, "Man, I’m super… I don’t know." And I said, "Well, in some cases, your skepticism is gonna be something we shouldn’t do, and in this case, my boldness is, is telling us that this is something that’s gonna help our family in the long run." So, so both can balance each other out

Tim Melanson: Agreed. Yeah, that’s awesome. So l- let’s talk about, I mean, you mentioned earlier the sales, and I, hey, I agree. I think sales should be taught, like, at length in schools, uh, you know, as early as you can. Because really, even if you do decide to be an employee your whole life, you’re still gonna have to sell your ideas.

And, uh, but now, w- when people become self-employed or they start their own business, y- you, I, I mean, it’s even more important [00:23:00] now, and I don’t think that that’s something that people put enough emphasis on. I think that they think, oh, I’m a great whatever it is, web designer or hairdresser, whatever it happens to be.

I’ll be fine. But you learn real quick that no, no, you won’t be fine unless you get out there and do something about it. And so I’m wondering, how do you get the fans? How do you get people in the door to be, uh, you know, to like you, I, I guess and, and do business with you?

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, sales is the lifeblood of every business. And, uh, I’ve got, I’ve got friends who buy underperforming businesses and turn them around, and the biggest lever is sales and sales systems. Um, so it… And I’ve also heard the, uh, y- CEOs really only have a couple of roles, maybe three roles, and it’s building a team, and it’s being the chief sales officer, and the chief marketing mind.

Uh, and that doesn’t, you know, people are like, "Man, that doesn’t seem right. A CEO shouldn’t really [00:24:00] have to be involved in marketing and sales." Well, if you watch companies that were absolutely thriving, that then stopped thriving a- after a CEO successor takes over, a lot of times they hire the operational guy,

Tim Melanson: Oh, yeah

Matt O’Neill: the COO, the one that, that understands how to make the widgets or make the system run right or, you know, do all the operating.

And then great, the operations are efficient, but they start losing customers and the company gets into trouble,

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Matt O’Neill: and then they, they have to bring back in that creative sales forward-thinking person. So if you’re thinking about owning your own business, you have to be relentlessly focused on improving your ability in sales and marketing.

It is all about customer acquisition. You can’t be more efficient with customers that you don’t have. You can’t have better operations when there’s nothing to operate on because you didn’t make enough sales. So that’s my obsession, is how can we get [00:25:00] more clients? How can we get more ideal clients? Where do they live?

How can we find them, and how can we market to them in an effective way? If it’s an obsession, then you study everything you can study, you read every book that you can read, and then you’re thinking about it in the shower, and, like, new ideas come to you. I… Like, I’m always testing and trying. Um, I love talking with other people to see what they’re testing and trying.

Um, so I feel like you kinda have to have a test budget where you’re making small bets all the time. Like, um, I started a YouTube channel. It was a bet. You know, I didn’t know if, if, uh, having a YouTube channel was gonna be successful in real estate or not. There were some people who were doing it to a high level of success.

The cost was pretty high. It was like 50 grand for the year to do this. I, I took a risk on it, and then it paid off, and then all of a sudden we’re the number one YouTube channel, and people from all over the country are watching these videos for long periods of time, having [00:26:00] a lot of trust in me, and then, uh, coming to work with our team.

Other things I try out and I take a bet on, they don’t work, so then we cut them. I usually want to give something that we’re testing six months to 12 months. So, um, that’s the other piece of it. If you’re gonna try something out, you have to have enough patience to see it through.

Tim Melanson: I agree. Now, when we talk about, you know, m- building a band, right? I mean, finding people in your business to work for you, whether it be partners or whether it be subcontractors or employees, is there sort of a process that you go through to make sure you’re finding the right people?

Matt O’Neill: Yeah, man. It’s the most important thing. Uh, our real estate company was named the number one place to work out of 470,000 companies in the state of South Carolina.

Tim Melanson: Congratulations

Matt O’Neill: thank you, man. It’s like the one thing that I’m, like, the most excited about is that people like to work at the place that we’ve created.

But they like to work together. Like, uh, if you look at what do people [00:27:00] want in their workplace, the most important things are not compensation, but that’s one of them. So you have to, you have to pay… In my opinion, I wanna pay better than average. I don’t wanna say, "Okay, this is what, this is what everybody’s paying.

I wanna pay above that." I don’t wanna pay the most premium because then I won’t be able to afford other things. It’s like an NFL salary cap. You only have so much money. Um, but, but I’m gonna invest a little bit more in my people than some other areas, um, because the number one expense is also turnover.

But then you can’t have any turds. No turds can work for you. So just a-holes, not okay. Backstabbers, step on other people to get ahead type people, high performers with prima donna attitudes, it doesn’t go well no matter what the job is. Um, so I, I look for first when I’m hiring somebody, and this could be a partner.

I only have one partner. [00:28:00] Um, so a partnership is like a marriage. Like, you gotta be really sure because a divorce is super ugly and, and difficult. Um, but if… So if it’s a partner, man, you better know this person really well and say, "Man, can I spend my life with this person?"

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Matt O’Neill: Um, but if it’s a vendor even, they’re gonna, they’re…

The way that they behave is gonna be a reflection of you. And definitely if it’s somebody that’s gonna work for you, um, I start with core values. So in the book Good to Great, he talks about you should set five core values for your company and no more, and this is, these five words should mean exactly who you’re looking for.

You should hire people that match those, and you should fire them if they don’t match them. So I just took that to heart, and that’s what we do. Our, our first core value is that we work with integrity. That’s doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. That’s our, so that’s our one-liner definition about what that means.

So then people that we see doing the wrong thing, we’re like, [00:29:00] "Man, you’re not a fit here." like, "Hey, you s- you stole this client from somebody. That’s, that’s a, that’s a lack of integrity. It’s just not a fit with who we are." And because I take the people that do the wrong thing out, all the ones that do the right thing wanna stay because they’re like, "I don’t like working with people who do the wrong thing.

Like, I wanna be able to just trust who I work with." Our second core value is kindness, which is we’re kind to people even when they’re mad. And you work with kind people that do the right thing. Kind people that do the right thing wanna work there too. You attract who you, who… You know, like, so the whole company now has an energy field, and people that are like that are like, "Man, I’m looking for a place that’s like this."

And they come in, and now you have to protect it. As soon as someone’s unkind, and we’ve had a lot of them, um, man, they can’t stay. And e- sometimes they are super big producers, and they’re like, like we, we had a, we had a [00:30:00] girl that was running the entire operations system of, of the property management company.

She was like the go-to piece, and yet four people quit under her leadership in eight months. And I’m like, "This isn’t right." And she, she was putting on a front to us like she was doing everything right and it was always these people’s fault. But the evidence showed that it was the opposite. So we had to do the tough thing and let go of the leader, and then that means that leadership fell on me and my partner because we didn’t have a leader, and then we had to go hire and train and, like…

It, it can be difficult to make the right decision about a people problem. But ultimately, you’ll always be further ahead if you’re putting your culture before your own comfort

Tim Melanson: I agree 100%. And, uh, I mean, that’s something that’s very difficult, I imagine, for any business owner to look at somebody who’s producing extremely well. And I mean, that, that’s just, uh, you know, a lot of human nature is [00:31:00] just, uh, big head, right? You know, you’re, you’re doing really well. You’re performing really well.

You tend to, you know, some certain people will tend to start treating other people poorly because of that’s, that’s what’s going on. And from a business owner’s perspective, you’re looking at the numbers and going, "Wow, this is going really, really well." But what you’re not seeing, as you mentioned, is that everybody else, and it’s, it’s just a toxic person in that, in that group.

And unless you only need that one person, then everybody else is gonna, is gonna be tainted, and you’re, you’re better off to get rid of the person that is performing in those situations, and that could be a, a tough thing to do, right?

Matt O’Neill: It, it is. And toxic is a good word for it

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Matt O’Neill: It, and sometimes, sometimes people are driven to perform because of emotional things going on inside where they don’t, where they don’t like themselves a whole lot, and so they’re trying to perform at a high level to prove that they’re worthwhile. [00:32:00] Well, if they don’t like themselves, they will project that own self-hate onto other people, and it’ll show up as coldness and a toxic work environment.

And it, you know it, I, I’m a happiness coach. I help people with these, uh, emotions and, um, but man, they’ve gotta want to as well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Matt O’Neill: So I, I’ve tried… You know, my first step, because I, I also value kindness, is to, is to offer some coaching and some support. Um, but we can’t, we can’t offer coaching and support forever when it’s harming other people

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, that kind of just goes to the next step, which is that person will never really look for help until there’s a problem. And if they keep on getting rewarded by, you know, we keep getting rid of the, the good people that are doing that are n- you know, underperforming, whatever it happens to be, and leaving that person in those positions, well, then they’re never gonna know that it’s a problem.

But if they keep on getting let go, [00:33:00] well, then eventually they’ll get to the point, "Well, maybe it’s me," and maybe they will go and seek that help. So in a way, you’re doing them a service by, by actually letting them go, you know, in a kind way so that they can recognize the problem and maybe go and figure out what’s driving them to act the way that they’re drive- that they’re acting, right?

Matt O’Neill: Uh, yeah. I, I agree, man. Sometimes, sometimes it is the wake-up call that they need. I can only hope that for the people that we’ve let go, that if, uh, that we’ve had those conversations with. Like, "Hey, we, we like you as a human being. Um, we think you can grow. Hopefully this is a, a opportunity for you to, to grow in these ways."

But I, y- you know, you don’t know if they will. It’s, it’s up to them

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So let’s move to your, to your solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your business right now

Matt O’Neill: Man, the most exciting thing in my business is working less

Tim Melanson: Yep.

Matt O’Neill: had a, I had a mantra last [00:34:00] year, which is, uh, which is do less. Because we’ve got four kids. My oldest is 12, and she’s already, like, so… She spends so much time in her cheerleading and with her friends. Uh, I’ve heard the statistic that you spend 80% of all the time you’ll ever spend with a child up until the age of 12, and that once they hit the age of 12, you only have 20% of the time you’ll ever spend with them for the rest of their life. And I’m like, man, that’s pretty, that’s pretty tough because I got one that’s 12. My 80% is already gone. And then I’ve got another that’s 10, so I’ve got two years left of that 80%, and, uh, another one that’s eight, and then another one that’s four. And I was on the board for Make-A-Wish South Carolina, and I’m very…

I’m a big fan of that charity. And it didn’t seem like a lot. It was, uh, you know, a meeting once a [00:35:00] quarter and fundraising and things like that. But there’s… E- even though I’m passionate about helping the kids and I’m passionate about the organization, and it didn’t seem like much time, it was psychic energy that was going into it.

And then I had this podcast, and my podcast was helping people be happier, and it had nothing to do with business and success. I just was… I’m just passionate about helping people with mental health. And that didn’t seem like much time. Just, you know, it’s just an hour episode every week, but y- you know, finding great guests and preparing great questions and recording the episode and then promoting the episode and all the things that go into it.

So these were two big things that I really enjoyed, that I was passionate about, and I shut both of them down last year. And then, um, and then I let go of my office at work, and now I’m working… And, and we built this hide-a-bed in our guest bedroom, you know, [00:36:00] that is… So now I, I get to work out here. And I did all of this intentionally so that when I get done with work, I’m just here with my kids.

And, um, and that when I’m done with work, there’s not these other little obligations that are also pulling at my attention so that I can spend these last few years before the age of 12 soaking it in. And, uh, and last night… So we did, we did something else too, and this is a pretty cool tip. We decided, uh, like maybe eight months ago, we would do no screens Monday through Wednesday And that includes me.

Um, and screens, that’s my phone, right? So they’re like, "If I can’t be on my iPad and I can’t be watching TV, you can’t be checking an email on your phone." So I deleted the email app off my phone. I deleted all the social media apps off my phone so my phone would become less interesting. I could still, of course, log into my computer and check my email or log into my [00:37:00] computer and, and check the social media things.

Um, but so yesterday was Monday, and it’s a no screen day, and I’m tired as heck. You know, it’s the end of the day, and Mondays are big days for me. And my son starts crying because my wife is taking my daughter to cheerleading and sh- and he’s like, "Oh man, I wanna be with mommy." I’m like, "All right, dude, what do you wanna do?"

And he’s like, "I don’t… I just wanna be with mommy." And I said, "What if we took a ride to the big park?" like, "All right, I could be kinda into that." And, uh, I gra- and then I went to my 10-year-old and I’m like, "Hey, I’m thinking of taking Brady to this park. Do you wanna go?" She’s like, "Yeah, I could be kinda into that."

And so we get to this big park and played tag around this park for like two hours. It was a beautiful night. We’re running all through the park. [00:38:00] We get home. My daughter’s like, "Hey, do you wanna, do you wanna play a game of horse in the driveway?" And I’m like, "Sh, why not?" So I’m shooting hoops with my daughter, and this is one of my, my goals is to, is to play with my kids.

So the no screen thing Monday through Wednesday, it’s, it is more work, it is more effort, but man, I’ve got memories of chasing my kids around that park and playing horse with my daughter that I wouldn’t have had if w- they were allowed to watch TV or, or sit on an iPad and I was allowed to look at my phone

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Wow. Brilliant. That’s amazing. So, ah, wow, so much there. So now you obviously help people to get out of that nine to five. So how can people find out more about, you know, being able to create those memories like you do?

Matt O’Neill: Well, I do, I, I do do happiness coaching, and, and if anybody’s interested in kind of my philosophies on that, I wrote a book that talks about how to get out of the eight primary negative [00:39:00] emotions that keep us from happiness, and then how to choose positive emotions. There’s two parts to the book, and the best place to find it is on Amazon.

It’s called The Good Mood Revolution. Um, and that’s a really good place to, to start to plug into the, to the way that I think

Tim Melanson: Awesome. One more question. Let’s get into music a little bit here. So tell me, who’s your favorite rock star or band?

Matt O’Neill: Man, I’ve had a lot of them over the years. When, when I was in high school I was, I was obsessed with The Beatles, and, um, and it… I think to me it’s the greatest band of all time. I just heard that what made The Beatles so extraordinary was Paul was classically trained in music, so he had all the musical training to, to keep the scales right and, and follow the patterns that good music is, and John had no training.

And so John was doing all these [00:40:00] out of the box things, and then Paul was, like, putting some structure behind John’s wild ideas, and which is what made them such an incredible music group. So, um, that’s… I, I’m just gonna stick with them

Tim Melanson: Yeah, Beatles my favorite too. I, that, I say that same story many times. It’s actually a- amazing what they were able to do because of that. And you know what? Business follows that quite a bit too, right? I mean, if you’re thinking, uh, within a box, well then you’re not gonna come up with these crazy ideas that nobody has thought of before, right?

Matt O’Neill: But if you’re all out of the box and you’re super crazy and there’s nobody keeping some structure, it can just sound messy and, and not, a- and not actually be great. So you need both pieces.

Tim Melanson: Absolutely. Right on. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Matt, for rocking out with me today. This has been an, an awesome episode

Matt O’Neill: Tim, I really appreciate it

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work At Home Rockstar

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. I love this next guest’s, uh, business name. This is really, really cool. He’s the president, founder, and CEO of LIWMI Logistics, and what that means is Life Is What We Make It. Love that. That’s so cool. And what he does is he, he inspires people to take control of their lives and build something meaningful.

Very excited to be rockin’ out today with Randy Vlasic. Hey, Randy, you ready to rock?

Randy Vlasic: Let’s go. Let’s rock, Tim. Thanks for having me on the show

Tim Melanson: Love it. So we always start off on a good note. So tell me a story of success so we can be inspired by.

Randy Vlasic: Oh, wow. Okay. Um, you know, when I was a kid, I, I wasn’t a great student. So just, just to give you a brief, um, uh, start of where, where I got started, I, I… When I was in school, I didn’t really do well because I didn’t love what I was doing and I didn’t apply it. So I, I, I didn’t really have that curiosity to go and learn it, right?

So as I got older, I kind of had to figure out my way and, um, and I did. So I, I started to get obsessed with trying to find, um, people [00:01:00] that were successful and try to, to copy some of their habits and learn from them so that I could do the same thing. So I went through retail and multi-level marketing, but I ended up into, in, in logistics eventually in my early 20s.

Uh, started out in sales, did really, really well, and eventually decided to start my own company. So I started my first company in 2014. Um, I, I, I, uh, was mid-20s at the time. I, I was doing sales for about four years, but I ended up building that company and, and selling it, um, two years later for, for seven figures, um, when I was 29. So it was, it was a wild ride, you know, up to that point and getting to there. It was just a, a whole, a whole, you know, river of different rapids and decisions that came about and, um, you know, I always choosed, always chose the challenging path and wanted to grow as an individual and it, it worked out. So that was probably the biggest success in my early in my, early on in my career

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s amazing. I, uh, I went through the multi-level marketing industry as well, and, uh, you know what? You learn a lot through that, [00:02:00] don’t you?

Randy Vlasic: You know, it was probably one, I, I think one of the best experiences that I had because, you know, with the MLM model, like, it, it was about selling somebody a dream, right? And for me as a young kid who didn’t really have a college education, like, I was always looking for that. So when I found somebody who was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year that told me I could do that, I was in.

You know, like, there it wasn’t any hesitation. I was jumping, um, both feet in at the same time, right? And so I got into it and the… I learned so much from so many of those people that were successful in the MLM model. It also forced me to become really good at recruiting, right? So getting to know people, finding out what makes them tick, trying to in- to, to sell them a dream and help them understand my vision of where I was going and how they fit into that.

And so I think I took a lot away from multi-level marketing in the business

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, me too. And I don’t think a lot of people necessarily think of that getting into it. I think first of all, they’re trying to make a, a buck real quick, which is, it isn’t. [00:03:00] I mean, it’s a, it’s a course really. It takes you a little bit of time to g- to get through it. And then, and then, um, you know, just, uh, the, the number of people that I know that didn’t necessarily make a bunch of money in multi-level marketing, although some of them did, and I made some money as well, but were able to just spin off and t- and start a business out of that, that actually did do well, it’s, it’s crazy.

I mean, you’d, you know, you, you don’t hear those stories very often. You hear about the people that failed, right? You know, and, and, and are complaining about it. Mm

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, people made it work. There were people making hundreds of thousands of dollars. I saw, you know, my wife I met in, in that multi-level marketing company. I saw her make, you know, it was insurance, mortgages, and investments, and, um, hence why I got out in 2008. But I saw a lot of people, uh, uh, you know, earn a good living there.

I mean, I was 22 at the time, 23, and I was making, you know, $90,000 in that space. And, um, so at the time I thought I was doing really [00:04:00] good and it, you know

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, you did a lot better than most do it, that’s for sure. That’s, that’s awesome. Yeah, so

Randy Vlasic: though, um, when you mentioned the guys that spun off, I think almost everybody that was on my team is now running a different company and doing really good

Tim Melanson: Yeah. It, it’s one of those things where if you do, if you do take it seriously and you do learn the things that you’re gonna learn, uh, you can’t, uh, it’s very difficult to go back to a job at that point. You know, you don’t, you’re, you, you have, like, control of your life, or you at least learn that it’s possible, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, that was like the first point in my life where I was like, you know, A equals B, right? If I put in the effort, I get the result. And so when there were days where I was like, "Man, I can’t pay my, I can’t pay my car payment. I need to go sell something," like I went and sold something, you know? But that’s the first time you’re like, "Man, this really works and I can do this."

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and that feels very similar to when you do start your own y- you know, your own self-employed business as well. I mean, it’s, I, I just remember sitting in that cubicle being an employee, and I mean, if money’s tight, what do you [00:05:00] do? Nothing. You just sit there and wait, I guess, for your next paycheck.

Whereas when you’re, when you’ve got your own thing, it’s just like to your point, it’s like, "Okay, well, I need some extra money. Well, if I go and hustle today, you know, maybe I can, you know, pull in an extra sale and…" Right? I mean, it, it,

Randy Vlasic: There’s always a

Tim Melanson: of that.

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, that’s correct. There’s always a way, it’s just, it’s just finding that way, right? And then going out and being able to execute on that. And sometimes it’s really weird, right? Sometimes that, that unique scenario that you’re in, um, you know, I know we’re gonna get more into this, but, um, when I started this company, LIWMI Logistics, which we’re a third-party, you know, transportation arrangement, it was in, uh, right after COVID happened.

Well, we had this big influx of inventory that came into the market in, uh, 2022, and then in 2023 the market dropped o- dropped off. There was so much inventory, there was no trucking movement. I’d just hired a brand new employees and I, I couldn’t make payroll, and I was like, "I gotta find out, find [00:06:00] another way to make some money."

Well, I had this forum that I was running with other freight broker owners I’d put together through Facebook Marketplace, and one of them was wanting to start a, a freight brokerage in California. So I actually went, went out to California and launched her company at the same time I was building mine. So I set up a six-month consulting agreement just to pay the payroll,

Tim Melanson: Wow

Randy Vlasic: so I could get my business back to stable before I went out and, you know, was able to come back to it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That, that’s the thing, right? I mean, it really does teach you that problem-solving mindset of like, "Hey, I’m in control. Hey, life is what you make it," right?

Randy Vlasic: Right. Well, we make it, right?

Tim Melanson: Life

Randy Vlasic: I don’t think anything in life we can do by ourselves. It always takes more than one

Tim Melanson: Oh, I love that. So now, along with the, the good note, sometimes there’s some things that don’t go as planned. So I do like to talk about the bad note because it seems as though that is the number one thing that holds people back from getting started. They think, "What could go wrong?"

Right? And I like to talk about it because, uh, uh, I- there’s probably something that went wrong, and you’re still here. [00:07:00] So can you tell us, you know, something that went wrong and, and how you recovered?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I think, um, there’s two really major times in my career that, that stand out to me. The first one is, is I didn’t really know myself. Like, my identity wasn’t really great when I was, uh, s- running my first company because it was all about money and profits and making money, right? And that’s all I cared about, and I built my entire life, right, my whole identity was built around this business that I created.

It didn’t have anything to do with anything outside of that. And then when I sold it, you know, I had all this money, but I didn’t have that business anymore. So it was like I lost it, and I didn’t know really who I was anymore. So for a year, I was, like, probably in the darkest place I’ve ever been. You know, I got, I got really depressed at the time, and I started to really look back at some of the things that I did as a, as a leader in that business and some of the lives that I impacted and some of the bad decisions that I made.

There was a lot of people that I reached out to, and I, I apologized You know, but I had to find my identity, and so I, I started to get back into church, and I [00:08:00] started to, to find other people in my life that could help me get out of that, that were mentors and that were in, in good places. And, um, you know, there were a couple friends that I made through that journey that really helped, helped get out of that, and helped me get started and build Life is What We Make It.

And so that’s kind of where this whole concept came from, right? Life is What We Make It. It was about people building each other up, bringing each other together. That was a really dark place in my life, and so I think finding my identity was a, was, um, one of the most important things. Because before I could build anything, I needed to know who I was first, right?

And, you know, at the end of the day, I’m, I’m, I’m a man of God, I’m a father, I’m a husband. Um, I’m a builder. And the… What my, my concept is is what Life is What We Make It is, is to deliver inspiration, inspire people to take ownership of their lives and build something meaningful. LIWMI Logistics, that freight brokerage company, that’s the tool that we use to enable everybody to do that.

You know, it’s not about just profits. It’s about using that as the tool to help people achieve the lives they want. The, the [00:09:00] second one is the one I just told you about, where, you know, the market crashed and, uh, I lost about 60% of my business. We didn’t lose customers, we just lost volume, you know? And, um, and, and I didn’t know what I was gonna do.

I didn’t know how I was gonna make payroll. And I just randomly, I’m like, "Hey, you know, maybe I’ll ask if, if I can start this other company for, for this lady I’m coaching." And she was in. And so that was it. I was running two companies at the same time. I’d have the same meeting schedule, back-to-back meetings.

You know, I’d run with, with my team, then I’d run with her team, and I was building her team at the same time I was building mine. I did that for six months, and I was traveling all over the place, and it was, it was wild. And, um, it was a cool thing, too, because, you know, you go back to the MLM model, you know, the people that I had just hired, like, I had just sold them this dream about how awesome this was gonna be and how we were making so much money and where we were going with the business, and they come on board, and then all of a sudden the business tanks.

You know? And a lot of them took a chance on me. Like, they were taking pay cuts to come here because they knew this was a good opportunity, and they, they’ve worked with me in the [00:10:00] past, and they knew what I was about. And so now I had to show up for them. I can’t just go lay these people off. You know, I could’ve, but then I went back to being a self-operator, so I had to find another way.

And that, um, was weird, right? Like, trying to come up with an alternative solution. I’ve never actually coached somebody before. I had to figure out how to coach them. At the same time, like, I’ve never ran two companies at the same time, so this is kind of scary. But you know what? I gotta do it, and this is a great opportunity.

And then, you know, I just dove in.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow, that’s amazing. Now, is there anything that you do differently coming out of those experiences like that, that you learn from?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. You know, the, um… After selling my first company and really thinking about the relationships that I had, you know, I, I, I didn’t have a lot of relationships from that previous company. Um, I was so focused on the results that I didn’t really spend enough time on, on focusing on the individual and really getting to know them, and so I realized that [00:11:00] afterwards.

And so now, you know, if… I, I would hope that if you’d ask anybody on my team, they’d say that I am 100%… I’m, I’m really a softie at heart and I care, and I always wanna make sure that I am doing everything I possibly can to make them successful before we ever get to a place where, you know, it’s not working out right and we have to go the other way.

And so getting to know them, um, is really important to me and, and what makes them tick. You know, I like learning about their interests because let’s face it, like, their job is not what they’re passionate, uh, their most passionate thing in their life, right? There’s something else. It’s being a musician or, you know, running a podcast or having a, a Twitch channel or a stream or whatever that can be, or their kid’s in soccer.

And so if I learn about those things, then, you know, I can use LIWMI Logistics as a tool to, to help them achieve some of the things they wanna accomplish there too. You know, maybe it’s sending somebody some nice equipment so they can start their Twitch channel or, you know, giving them a, a, you know, a, a giant [00:12:00] soccer net that I had sitting around that we’re not using because I know their kid loves soccer.

And sometimes those small things just make such a big difference. So I really try to focus in on the, um, just on the person and really getting to know them. I genuinely love people

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and figuring out the why, right? Because that is, that is the reason why people get out of bed. There’s gotta be a reason, right?

Randy Vlasic: 100%, yeah. And everybody’s different. Sometimes it’s, it’s surprising

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it is. Let’s talk a little bit about practicing. So, uh, I mean, this can go anywhere, but I’m wondering what, what does practice mean to you?

Randy Vlasic: Uh, you know, I call it, um, mastery, right? It’s like I- I- for me to learn something, first I have to, I have to be interested in it. I have to generate that curiosity to really want to learn it, right? So just like as an instrument, if I wanna learn how to play the guitar, I’m doing that because I love the guitar.

I love the way it sounds. I wanna get in there, and I wanna, wanna understand it. So now I’m watching the YouTube videos. There’s passion there and excitement. So I have to have that curiosity, number one, but once I have that, it’s just em- um, embracing it, right? I think [00:13:00] mastery comes from stepping into that environment and getting to know that environment, and then putting yourself in that uncomfortable situation and getting comfortable in it, right?

It’s like getting on a podcast for the first time. You don’t really know if you’re gonna say the right things. A lot of times you probably don’t. But the more times that you’re in that environment, you know, the more comfortable you get in it, the, and the more mastery or, or, or the better you get at that craft.

I mean, I use sales as an example, too, ’cause I’ve seen so many people who’ll be like, "Well, I’m, I’m struggling in sales." Well, what do you need? Well, they’ll say, "Well, I need more training. You know, I need more training. I wish I had… There was this secret thing." And it’s, there’s no secret sauce to say, "Hey, if you said this, you’re gonna close 90% of your deals."

There isn’t. For m- most of them, I just like to say, "You know what? Practice makes perfect. You gotta be on the phone. You have to be talking to somebody. You have to be in that environment. You have to be getting hit with objections. When you get those, when you get stuck, bring that to me. Let’s work through some of those things."

But we can train on everything today, but [00:14:00] until you put it into practice, it’s really not gonna stick, right?

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I found, I found something really fascinating to me is that when you do that kind of coaching with multiple people in your team, it’s interesting that there are some objections that are the same that everybody gets, but there’s also, like, differences as well. And do you find that that’s, that that happens to you as well, that certain people get certain objections all the time?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I think it, um, it depends on how that individual’s delivering themselves sometimes, I think, right? The, the objections, a lot of, lot of objections are similar. Um, but sometimes it’s just that the way that the person is delivering a certain topic or, or the questions that they’re asking that they’ll get at the same objection that somebody else may not be getting.

So sometimes it is that individual

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and it may, it might have something to do with just the belief and that aspect of whatever it is that they’re offering, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. I mean, belief is the biggest thing, right? It’s, if you can believe in what you’re [00:15:00] selling, you know, you’re gonna be more successful, right? I always, I always use it as this ex- use this example. Like, if you, if I came to you, Tim, and I was like, "Hey, I know you have cancer, and I have the cure for cancer, and I wanna give that to you, but it’s gonna cost you $100,000."

Now, cancer is a significant thing, right? You– if, if, if you had the funds then you, you probably would say yes. But let’s just say you’re like, "No, I don’t, I don’t really want this." My, my conviction on this, this, this cure, though. You’re like, "No one’s ever done this before." I’m like, "No, but I know this." The way that I feel about selling you this pill, the conviction is so strong that I can’t s- I can’t let you say no, Tim.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Randy Vlasic: You know, you have to say yes, and so I’ll have to find a way to do that. That’s always an example I like to use

Tim Melanson: Yep, it’s true. Yeah, and, and, and yeah, I mean, that’s the thing is that if the person doesn’t want on the other side, then it, it, it’s really just a mismatch in what they’re looking for. And then that just probably comes down to more questions. You know, you [00:16:00] didn’t ask the right questions to find out if they actually had cancer in the first place, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yep.

Tim Melanson: I mean, that’s an odd example, but yes.

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to, you know, to understanding the individual that we’re talking to. Like s- I don’t think sales is some… There’s definitely some technique to it, but most of it is just building a relationship and then getting to know what makes the person tick and what they’re trying to accomplish, and helping them do that.

So if we can identify that problem and give them the solution, then there’s a good chance they’re, they’re gonna take it

Tim Melanson: Yep. And I do think that o- as time goes on too, uh, I mean, the, the, you know, the, the tricks, I guess, are less effective as more time goes on, I think, because, uh, I think that, um, you know, especially with AI coming out and all that stuff, there’s lots of, of, you know, tactics and things that you can use. But really people do business with people, and so the more real you are about, you know, yourself, you know, they’re, they’re gonna be attracted to you ’cause they like you, you know, rather than the next person over there that can sell them the same thing, right?

And oftentimes that’s the [00:17:00] thing, is it’s a lot of different people offering the same solution. Why would they choose you, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, so

Randy Vlasic: I, even in, in the logistics side of things, I mean, I could give you an example. You know, we roll out LTL as a service, which is less than truckload. It was a new service offering we had, and we’ve never done it before. And I’ve, I have done it at my previous companies and managed, you know, $50 million of it.

But, you know, as a new service offering, going to a customer and being able to say, "Listen, I know you guys are doing this. I know there’s opportunity there. I know I can offer a solution, and I wanna build that for you, and I want you to be the one to help me build that. Help, help me understand what’s important so that I can build this solution to really meet your need."

And they love that stuff. You know, it’s not just like, "Hey, let me sell you LTL." It’s like, "Let me- let’s make this together." You

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Hey, your, uh, your background looks awesome. That, is it, that’s a real background, right?

Randy Vlasic: It is, it is, yeah

Tim Melanson: So let’s talk a little bit about your jam room. So what does your home [00:18:00] office look like?

Randy Vlasic: Oh, man, it is a production studio, Tim. I love my home office, um, so much, and I’ve invested a ton of money into it and, and time. And, you know, when I first started working from home in 2017, I think it was, um, you know, I had a, I had an office room, and it had this big giant desk in it, and it had another desk in it, and it had a, a file cabinet and all this stuff in there.

And, like, I had a standup desk that sat on top of that, and it was just cluttered. And it wasn’t, um, a place that I really loved because it was like the storage closet, right? My wife would, like, she needed to h- to stick something somewhere, she’d put it in the office, right?

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: So I got stuff all over the place and I’m like, "I hate this."

You know, when I walk into work every day I’m like, "Man, this environment is just not, it’s not motivating me," you know? And, uh, so I’m like, we had this, this room in the front of the house. I, I called it the museum room. It was the room where, like, we had all the nice furniture but nobody ever really sat in it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: And I’m like, "I’m taking the museum room over." So I [00:19:00] took that over. I have, um, the VariDesk, which is one of my favorite desks. They’re just super durable. They’re kind of expensive, but Vari makes them. Um, it’s a standup desk. Underneath me I have a, um, uh, a treadmill. So I typically like to walk when I’m working during the day.

I sit down when I’m doing stuff like this. But I spent a lot of time, you know, in, in getting good equipment, cameras and lights and, and making this a place that I really love to come into, and sometimes I’ll come in here for fun, you know?

Tim Melanson: That is awesome.

Randy Vlasic: yeah.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome, yeah. And, and, and that’s just it. I mean, if, if your, if your job is at home and you’re not excited to get into your office, then how are you really gonna get anything done, right?

Randy Vlasic: That’s right. So I, I definitely love this space. You know, my kids love, love this space too, and I like to keep it clean and tidy when I can, and yeah

Tim Melanson: Uh, have you, uh, do, do you have an issue with, like, people interrupting you during the day at all, or?

Randy Vlasic: Um, yeah, [00:20:00] sometimes. I mean, my kids are… You know, my son’s on this e-bike kick, right? And so it’s like every time he needs something with the e-bike, he just walks in, he’s like, "I need new tires. I need new brakes," whatever it may be. And so he’ll walk in, and sometimes it happens, but for the most part, you know, they can hear me or they see that I’m on a call, and they know that, you know, when Dad’s on a call, don’t bother him.

Um, and then they’ll come in, and they’ll sometimes they’ll just give me a wave and they’ll walk by, and I’ll know they need something, and I’ll go find them afterwards. And sometimes, you know, I just had an example where I was having a conversation with a, an employee the other day, and my son, he just made the honor roll, right?

Comes home from school super excited. He comes running into my office. I can see the excitement on his face, and I know, I’m like, "Man, this is something I probably need to listen to." And I, I asked, you know, the employee, I was like, "Hey, man, listen, can you give me a couple minutes? Can I call you right back?"

Had him sit down and tell me all about it. He was so excited. Um, so there’s times like that, too, you know, where I, I, I will, uh, uh, stop what I’m doing to give him the time, and I think that’s the benefit of working from home, right? You’d have the same interactions if you’re sitting at a desk in a cubicle.

Someone’s gonna walk up to you and bother you in the middle of the day, and you’re gonna [00:21:00] stop what you’re doing and talk to them. So rather it be my kid, you know-

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And, uh, I mean, I think that this kind of thing maybe might keep people from starting a business from home, thinking that, "Oh, I’m just gonna get interrupted all day," and I don’t know how… And, and number one, I think kids espe- especially more than adults, they get it faster, right? I mean, if you, you know, maybe, um, and I know when I first g- started working from home long before lockdowns and all that stuff, people didn’t quite understand it.

They thought I could help them move ’cause I was doing nothing.

Randy Vlasic: That’s right.

Tim Melanson: right? But

Randy Vlasic: go golfing?

Tim Melanson: go ahead

Randy Vlasic: You know, or somebody asks you to go golfing or whatever during the day, I’m like, "I’m working."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. They’re like, "Ah, I got the day off, let’s go golfing." And you’re like, "Oh, come on." But, but I, I think that for, for kids it’s like th- they don’t know any different, so it’s, it’s a matter of like, "Oh, Dad works from home, so he’s working.

Like, okay, I gotta leave him alone." So you, you do find that. But then the, the next thing you mentioned about when your kid comes in, how do you think that, like, the, the, how did the customer react when [00:22:00] you had to go for a second?

Randy Vlasic: Um, it w- it wasn’t a customer. If it was a customer, I- typically I would tell my son, "I’ll- give me a minute and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll reach out to you." Unless it’s somebody that I’m really close with and I could say, "Hey, David, you know, we’ve worked together for a long time. Can I just call you back in a minute?" I think the customer will respond, uh, well to that.

You know, I, I, most people find, like, when it’s something that’s really important to you like that, like your kids and, you know, they have kids and they can share in that too, like, they’ll, they’ll promote that. I think as somebody who’s considering to work from home, you know, man, I have kids at home, and is that an interruption?

Like, yeah, I think working from home is the absolute best because it gives us more flexibility than working in an office. First of all, I’m saving, you know, whatever it is, 13, 30 minutes, half an hour, an hour drive time each single, every single day. If I was working late, I’m working at the office, so I can’t just come out and have dinner with my family and go back in.

Here I can do that, right? I can step out, I can go ha- have a meal with my family, I can get them off to school. I can come back in, I can get back to work. And I think that’s [00:23:00] the, that’s where working from home really is super valuable, and I think that work-life balance that it provides to our employees too is the same, you know?

Like I have, we have people that their kids get off the bus at 3:00. Every day at 3:00, they’re going to get their kid from the bus. Like it- that’s great. Go get your kid from the bus. Like I don’t expect you to sit here from 8:00 to 5:00 and work nonstop and, and ignore everything that’s going around you. All what I care about is, you know, did we meet the KPIs and the expectations?

Are we getting the results that we need, you know? That’s all that matters to me. If you can– If you’re a salesperson that can deliver exceptional results better than any other salesperson and do it in four hours, nobody’s pissed off about that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Randy Vlasic: You’re leading the sales team, but you’re gonna do it in four hours.

Everybody else is doing less, and they’re doing it in eight. Like no one’s mad about that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, number one, I, I agree. I, I think that clients and, and team members actually, I think it probably benefits you to show that you’re a human and you have, you know, y- [00:24:00] you love your kids and that kind of stuff, right? Like, I think that that’s a super benefit. And then the second part that you mentioned too, like, yeah, I mean, there’s just so many people in the corporate world that are focused on how much time they’re at the office rather than what kind of productivity that they’re producing.

And I mean, that’s really what’s important. And w- as business owners, we should be more interested in what they’re producing rather than how much time they’re sitting at their desk, right?

Randy Vlasic: I mean, it all comes down to results, you know? And I definitely don’t wanna be the person that has to micromanage you. You know, I can … I don’t need a software tool that runs on everybody’s laptop that tells me, you know, what they’re doing ni- every single minute of the day. I just need to know that our business KPIs are this, you know, maybe it’s Y, and we need to hit that KPI.

And so as long as we’re hitting that metric and that metric is, is operating, great. Now, if we’re not hitting that metric, then we’re having a conversation about that. But I’m not sitting there going, "Hey, you’re, you, you turned yellow for, for 30 minutes. Like, what have you been doing?" Like, I don’t wanna be that guy.

I wanna give that to the team and let them run with it, [00:25:00] you

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So what tools do you use in your business to get you success?

Randy Vlasic: Um, well, I think my home setup is my biggest, my biggest tool. This is a command center, right? From a, from a digital standpoint, I am having so much fun with artificial intelligence.

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Randy Vlasic: So much fun with it. I am, uh, you know, I, I’m, I am not, uh, a programmer by all means. You know, I’ve launched a personal branding website.

I just launched, um, lifeiswhatwemakeit.com, which is, is about giving, giving back to, to, to drivers. And so there’s, you know, gear that we sell and stuff like that, and then we give proceeds to, to the driving community and give them healthy meals. And like, you know, I’ve built that stuff and, and by myself in a matter of hours.

You know, I remember when I first built my first website for LIWMI Logistics, it cost me $10,000 to build that. You know, when I went to go build randyvlasich.com, they wanted 4,000. Then I found AI, and I was like, "Pfft," and I built it in three hours by myself, and I never coded a [00:26:00] single thing before, right? So I’m also using AI a lot of times, like, to be my executive assistant.

It sends me an update every single morning in my email. It tells me where the numbers are at. So I’m us- loving AI in that way. It’s making me… It’s like unlocking superpowers for me. Like, it fills all the gaps that I had, and all the things that I hated doing, it does those great.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Ugh, I can’t say enough about it as well. All that left brain stuff, right? I mean, it allows you to be creative and it lets all the monotonous stuff, it does it for you, right?

Randy Vlasic: Time-consuming stuff. Like just, you know, I can come up with the, the, the content that I wanna deliver, it can help me build it, and then I can just do it, or I can have it run an analysis, and then I can just validate it for a customer. From an analog perspective, um, you know, I, I, I like to read a little bit.

Um, I’m not great at it, but I do like to read a little bit. My favorite tool, my favorite instrument though would definitely be the pen.

Tim Melanson: Hmm

Randy Vlasic: Um, I love fountain pens, and I think everything starts for me with the pen. [00:27:00] And, you know, when you th- when I- we talk about goals and things like that, like I’m, I’m a … I like to journal every single day.

I like to, to ta- to see how my day went. It forces me to slow down, to, to think intentionally, to write it down. And then when I get into the business side of thing, when it comes to planning, like I like to just un- disconnect from, from the digital world, and, and just sit there and really just write, plan, strategy, mind map.

Um, even like my business, uh, business vision, right? I mean, we all have goals in life. I think vision’s, the vision of it is the most important, and having a document to me is, is the best because if I can look out three years in my business, and I have it written down on a piece of paper, and I have that in front of me every single day, I’m always looking at it.

And if I get off track, I can very specifically see where I’m off track and what I need to fix. And so for my vision, I like to look out three years and then write it in present tense. What do I see in the, ar- around me? What are we doing as a remote company? What are we, uh, [00:28:00] philanthropic things are we doing?

What are we doing as a, as a community? How are we getting together? How are we helping other people? And I can write that in, in present tense and then have that document to do it. So for me, it’s definitely a pen and paper.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah, and so you do… It’s, it’s almost affirmations, I guess, right? Where you write it in the present tense

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. So, um, yeah, just like affirmations, right? I’m a successful person. I’m, uh, you know, I’m a CEO of a $100 million company and, uh, we have a worldwide remote team and, you know, we’re, we’re getting featured in, in a lot of different articles, and companies are coming to us and they’re, they’re asking us how we, how we run the successful remote team, and they’re learning from us and operationally how they do it.

Like, it, it puts you in that environment, right? And then you can, you can see that

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And they work. I mean, I know a lot of people think that they don’t, uh, but it is, it is sort of this magic, right?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah, I mean, otherwise, you know, the, the alternative is, and I’ve done it too, I’m like, "Hey, I got an Excel file that has what I wanna be as an individual, what I wanna be as a [00:29:00] business owner, what do I wanna be as a father and a husband," right? And I got all these, these things that I wanna accomplish. But that sits in a file in a folder that I never have opened.

So the only time that I’m seeing that is if I’m doing, you know, intentional reviews weekly, quarterly, monthly. But if I have a document that sits on my desk, I can share that document with somebody else now. So when I interview somebody for a job, I’m like, "Hey, read this first. Tell me what you think about it.

Where do you see yourself fitting into it?" Now I have something that’s tangible

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. You know, the, the physical, there’s, there’s something to be said about that, and even physical books, right? Rather than, um, you know, e-books or even audiobooks. I mean, audiobooks are super helpful because you can listen to them while you’re doing something else. But the physical books, I mean, there is something to be said for it, right?

Randy Vlasic: 100%. I, uh, the books that I read, um … So I have attention deficit disorder, ADHD. So typically when I read a book by myself, I read a book or I read a whole chapter sometimes, and I get to the end and I’m like, "What did, what did I just read? I don’t even remember what happened." I have to go read it again. And so what I’ve [00:30:00] learned is, that works best for me is I’ll, I’ll, I’ll order the book as an audiobook, and I’ll listen to the book while I read it, and then I just use the book for notes, and I take notes in the book, and I highlight things as I’m listening to it, but I like to listen to it

Tim Melanson: That’s an excellent idea. I never even thought to do that. That’s a great idea because you just order it in two different formats, and now you can follow along in the book just like your parents read to you.

Randy Vlasic: That’s right. And then I have, again, that tangible thing that I, if I wanna m- I’m like, "Hey, there was that book that I read and I love that spot." I can just go grab it off the bookshelf, and I can open it up, and I can see it

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Love that. So I’m excited to hear your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your, in your business right now

Randy Vlasic: Oh my gosh. Um, so I just launched Life is What We Make It, like the real movement part of it, about a month ago. Um, so the cultures and the values all live in LIWMIlogistics.com, and we’re doing amazing things. The freight market is absolutely wild right now.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Randy Vlasic: Help companies understand their transportation in such a way that it becomes such a value proposition to them in the [00:31:00] market.

But Life is What We Make It, um, the whole goal of it is to inspire men and people to, to take ownerships for lives and build something meaningful. And so I’m trying to build a following and share some content that’s, that’s able to help some other folks that may be be in similar industries, and bring on maybe a couple guests that can share some of their stories.

Um, and then I’m just using LIWMI Logistics as kind of the tool to, to, to enable m- myself and my team to be able to do those things. So the movement is, is starting. It’s very new, you know, and, uh, and again, it’s one of those things just like anything else. It’s scary, man. I, I … This is my seventh podcast and I can’t

You know, every single one I get off and I’m like, "What was I thinking? Why did I say that?" And then this is the same thing. I’m like, "Why did I roll that content out? Oh my God, I, I didn’t put music on or I did something wrong." And, but it’s fun and it’s ins- it’s exciting for me. And the, um, what it’s doing for other people is the most rewarding thing.

You know, I have 20-something-thousand TikTok followers [00:32:00] on TikTok, right? And I got that through, through a weird video I posted with my daughter that we made together. But now that I’ve shifted to Life is What We Make It, and I’m sharing content that has to do with like finding your identity, building your vision, how do you master your habits, what are the people that help you get there, what does m- m- uh, um, momentum look like?

Now I’m having all these kids reach out, and I never even thought about inspiring children, but I’m having my son … You know, I’ve had kids that my sons know or these kids that are reaching out. They’re like, "Hey, I never even thought about this. This is really helping me in my life."

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That’s

Randy Vlasic: And so yeah, it’s been, it’s been a wonderful ride.

I’m having a lot of fun with it

Tim Melanson: So how do we find out more?

Randy Vlasic: Um, the best way to find me is just go to randyvlasic.com. Um, it links to all my social platforms there and everything that I’m doing. Um, it links to, um, our movement site as well. Um, so again, just randyvlasic.com

Tim Melanson: And so where’s the podcast available then?

Randy Vlasic: Right on randyvlasic.com. It’s hosted on, on [00:33:00] all the major podcast networks. So you can find it on Spotify and, uh, I have it on YouTube, um, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, but all of the links for everything that I do is on randyvlasic.com

Tim Melanson: Oh, love that. Right on. All right, so maybe the toughest question of all, and we’re gonna get into the music side a little bit. So who is your favorite rock star or band?

Randy Vlasic: Oh, God. I think, um, man, I love Kid Rock. I w- yeah, I think from a rock star standpoint, like definitely it’s Kid Rock, but I love all kinds of music. The only thing I don’t listen to is hard metal, but outside of that I’ll, I’ll, I’m rap, rock, and, and country all in the same car ride.

Tim Melanson: Nice. Well, I mean, those, those are kind of like getting mixed together nowadays, isn’t it?

Randy Vlasic: Yeah. Yeah, no doubt it is. It is

Tim Melanson: Have you ever seen Kid Rock in concert?

Randy Vlasic: I did. Last time I saw them was at, uh, Summerfest in, in Milwaukee. I went with my wife.

Tim Melanson: That’d be quite the show, eh?

Randy Vlasic: oh, it was a great show. Great show

Tim Melanson: that’s awesome. Well, thank [00:34:00] you so much for rocking out with me today, Randy. This has been a lot of fun

Randy Vlasic: Oh, Tim, it’s been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having on me, or having me on the show

Tim Melanson: No problem. And so we’ll see you next time on the n- on the Work At Home Rockstar podcast, and make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information

Randy Vlasic: Take care

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Today, I’m speaking with the owner of Plug Technologies, and what he does is he connects L- Latin American talent with US companies. So I’m excited to be rocking out today with Brian Samson. Hey, Brian. You ready to rock?

BrianSamson: Tim, I am ready to rock

Tim Melanson: Awesome. We always start off on a good note.

Tell me a story of success that we can all be inspired by

BrianSamson: Yeah, I, um, uh, have grown three different companies from zero to $4 million in revenue. Um, so, uh, that’s something I, I f- I feel pretty good about hanging my hat on

Tim Melanson: That’s a, that’s a pretty good one. Yeah, absolutely. Did you, did you see that? Like, was that like a goal that you had, or h- how did that all come about?

BrianSamson: Yeah, I mean, I think I love the ethos of your show because I did not grow up in an entrepreneur family. I, I waited a long time to become an entrepreneur. I was, um, [00:01:00] I’ve been one going on 11 years, but that meant, like, my mid-30s is when I finally, you know, had the courage, gumption, whatever, and sanity to, you know, go out on my own.

Um, uh, and, you know, I, I kinda did it in a weird way where, um, my Well, I, I should say I, I, I actually did, like, a kind of a first-level entrepreneurship, you know, way back in 2012 where … I think this is where most people start, and if they’ve ever read, like, the Robert Kiyosaki books, you know, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, Cashflow Quadrant, you know, there’s, like, the four quadrants of, you know, employee, self-employed, uh, business owner, and then investor.

So I’ve kinda been, like, moving my way, you know, through the Kiyosaki quadrants. But the first step people tend to make is the, um, [00:02:00] you know, like, solopreneur. So, um, the ones we’re most common with are, um, you know, lawyers and doctors. You know, they open their own practice, um, and they just charge a high hourly rate , you know, but it’s, you know, still their time.

So, uh, my background came up through recruiting and talent acquisition, so that’s what I charge. You know, I would, um, you know, find, uh … I decided to go independent. I just had a couple of handful of clients and charged for my own time. And, um, what I, you know … And I did it entirely from home. I was in San Francisco.

Every once in a while I’d post up at a hotel lobby, you know, and work, or a coffee shop. Um, but, um, you know, I didn’t have, like, a big war chest of funds or anything. I just, you know, hustled and kinda beat the street. [00:03:00] You know, got, got a few clients. And that all … And then I think I’ve kinda learned that entrepreneurship is just, just a whole bunch of levels, you know.

Um, I haven’t played video games in a long time, but when I did, you know, it was like, you know, you gotta get to the next level of, you know, Super Mario Brothers or something. So, uh, you know, now I think I’ve kinda made my way, you know, all the way through the different quadrants and mostly just invest money in other operators and

Um, but it took a long time to get there, and, uh, you know, it all started with selling your time for money, but doing it for multiple clients.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Yeah. And that is, uh… Like, so now why did you decide to have the gumption to, to go and do that in the first place? Was there a, a big why there?

BrianSamson: Yeah, my story was I, I, I guess kind of funny in that, um, uh, I really wanted [00:04:00] to do human resources for tech startups. So I, I took this test called an SPHR, which stands for Senior Professional Human Resources. Very few people know about it. It’s not that, uh, it’s not that special. Um, but it’s ki- it’s kinda like a CPA for HR is a way to…

And the pass rate’s, um, kinda rough. It’s like less than half the people pass, and you’ve gotta be in the industry for so long to take the test. So I, I kind of decided to be an entrepreneur, studied for this test, passed the test, um, with the whole idea to sell, like, all the non-recruiting stuff to tech startups.

So like I could help design your benefits and your comp plans and then everything. And no one wanted to buy that, but they’re like, "Hey, could you, could you recruit for us?" Yeah, I do have recruiting experience. I could do that. [00:05:00] So, um, so like my initial, my initial thesis was way off in terms of like product market fit, like what I, what I w- what I wanted to offer and what I wanted people to buy versus what they wanted to buy.

Um, but I still had something of value that they wanted to buy, and then we, we kinda dug, dug deeper in there and, and then I would lead with recruiting and then maybe try to, you know, sell some of the other stuff later

Tim Melanson: Okay. Okay, cool. So really, you, you, uh, y- you sort of grew into the role that you’re in right now. You found something that people were looking for, and you wanted to offer that. W- had you been in a cubicle before that? Like, what, what, where did you come

BrianSamson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, so I started my career in Chicago, um, in like a real traditional bullpen environment. So staffing agency. And, uh, so it was like kind of cubicles, but really tables. You know? You’re just, you’re just kinda like crammed in. There’s like a bunch of tables, and it’s [00:06:00] kinda like a boil- a little boiler room.

You know? Like crammed in with tables, um, phones, computers. And, um, and I loved it because you could learn through osmosis, you know, and like hear all these conversations. The people that do agency type work, like staffing agency type work, they’re a little more like aggressive, assertive. There’s a lot of banter.

You know? A lot of like poking fun, you know, stuff like that. So it was really, really lively. Um, so I wouldn’t trade that for the world. Like I’m really glad that I got to spend my 20s in these bullpen environments. Um, but then like once you learn it, you just kinda want some quiet to work . You know?

Tim Melanson: yeah

BrianSamson: So, uh, so I, I don’t need that anymore.

Um, and, uh, um, you know, and then it was like work from home after that. But, but I started in the, you know, [00:07:00] pseudo cubicle. Really more of just like a, you know, a table and, and, uh, and, and a lot of loud noise in the a- in the area

Tim Melanson: Wow. So, w- uh, now a lot of people are just afraid to fail, and they think that they’re gonna make some big mistakes and it’s gonna, you know, ruin everything, right? Especially when they’ve got their so-called safe job, right? Uh, n- not necessarily anymore, but whatever. I mean, still, it, it is a steady paycheck for, for, for whatever it is.

But now when you get out into your, on your, on your own and you start doing this on your own, there are some things that don’t go as planned. And I’m wondering, can you share with me one of those big mistakes that you made along the path and how you recovered from that?

BrianSamson: Yeah. Um, so when I, when I first got my, like, I’d say, like, more l- like, the second level of entrepreneurship, um, I was building a, um, a Latin America software business. And, [00:08:00] um, so our team was in Latin America. Um, the… You know, I, I came out of recruiting, not sales, so, um, I always felt like sales was something somebody else could do, you know?

Um, and you could just, like, hire some superstar. They’d, they’d be a rainmaker and bring in all this money. But, um, that didn’t go… So it was really more of, like, a business owner fail, you know, where I hired, uh, two pretty expensive salespeople from the industry, and, um, just month after month, like, how come we’re not getting any revenue?

Isn’t that what, what, you know,

Tim Melanson: hired you for?

BrianSamson: Yeah, we hired you guys for. Um, and then, you know, had to eventually move on from them. But I think I was just, like, really intimidated, and I, I, and I, I, I bet a lot of people might identify with this, you know, where they’ve got the [00:09:00] skill with marketing or finance or accounting or back office operations or something, and just not sales, right?

Like, sales was always what, like, wild, extroverted person would do. And, um, um, and that’s, that’s how I thought. But I, think I underestimated, um, my, like, the grace people would give me because I was the founder of the business. So I could say the wrong things, um, not run a real proper sales call or discovery or ask the right questions, but because I was the founder, people wanted to talk to me, and they, and they could see, you know, I cared about their business and them as a client, and that, that really mattered.

So I’d say, um, the biggest mistake was just trying to, like, buy my way into revenue,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

BrianSamson: and, um, not [00:10:00] recognizing, like, it’s… You just have to do it. Like, everyone’s gotta sell, no matter how introverted or reserved you might be or how your superpower might be something else. Um, being a founder, uh, it’s something that you should do.

You should do the sales, but also recognize that it’s compounding. Like, it’s another skill set that you get to have for yourself

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That’s, that is really accessible, I think, for everybody. And, and I mean, I, I think that’s true that sales, uh, I mean, this comes up all the time, but, like, uh, people are … I think people have a negative view of what they think sales is based on probably some negative experiences where they got sold, right?

Something that they didn’t actually want. But really, what sales is supposed to be, I think w- what you just said, I mean, y- you’re really just showing somebody how you can fix a problem, aren’t you?

BrianSamson: Right. [00:11:00] Yeah

Tim Melanson: and, and isn’t that what you do? Don’t you fix problems? That’s what, that’s what entrepreneurship is

BrianSamson: that’s exactly it. Yeah, it doesn’t matter if you’re selling, you know, IT support or marketing services. You’re, you’re trying to make somebody else’s business better

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, you’re trying to help them. And, and like you just said, I mean, I think that, uh, you know, as a founder or, or, or even as a salesman, I mean, the … I, I would argue that the best salesman, and I’m not talking about maybe some p- salesman might be able to rack up some big sales, but then you get some returns and some buyer’s remorse that comes back from that if you don’t do it right.

But if you do it right, then you just, you’re really good at, at caring, at, at asking good questions, and at showing people that you’re a real person that they want to do business with, right? And like you said, I mean, they’re, you know, the, you’re the founder of the company. People are like, "Okay, well, what’s this thing all about?

I wanna know how you can fix my problem." And if you’re real about that, [00:12:00] and I mean, you can say some things that aren’t by the book, but, but, but as long as that person on the other line goes, "Okay, well, yeah, it seems like he’s being honest," that’s, that’s what they want, right?

BrianSamson: Oh, man, yeah. I mean, people are, I think, tired. You know, I, I, I overestimated the, like, the extroversion, you know, the, the… I- and I’m not that, I’m not, I’m really not that extroverted as a person. Um, uh, much more reserved. So I think I, like, overvalued that people just wanna do business with extroverted people, but really they just want their problem solved, you know?

It doesn’t matter how, how, how you go about doing it. So, you know, I encourage people that are listening that are maybe, like, a little more reserved or they’ve never sold, they’ve never thought they’ve sold anything before, you’ve been selling your whole life, you know, you just, you’re j- you’re just doing it in your own way

Tim Melanson: Yep. I, I, and I think also [00:13:00] probably if you don’t know you’re selling, then it probably just means that you really believe in what you’re selling

BrianSamson: Yeah. Yeah ‘

Tim Melanson: Cause it’s really, really connected. You’re just going like, "I’ve got a good idea and I really think it’s a good idea." You’re technically selling that, but I think, like I said, I mean, I think a lot of people have this negative view of what sales is and they think that sales is actually convincing somebody of something, and it’s not necessarily that.

It’s, it’s showing them that you can help them with that problem. It’s, it’s more of a communication style, right?

BrianSamson: Right. Right. Totally. Totally

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So I, I mean, I wish that sales was like a critical part of, like, school or the regular cur- curriculum, ’cause people really should be learning that. Because even if you don’t ever decide to be in a business, you’re still sitting in meetings at work, and if you don’t know how to, how to express your opinions, then, uh, like how, how do you even [00:14:00] do that?

Like, how do you be successful in a, in a regular job if you can’t sell your ideas or you can’t even convince them that you want a raise, right? I mean, all that is sales, right?

BrianSamson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That’s right. That’s exactly right

Tim Melanson: So it’s definitely worthwhile learning, I think, right?

BrianSamson: Mm-hmm. That’s exactly right

Tim Melanson: so let’s talk a little bit about the, the cashflow aspect of business, and I mean, that’s another thing that trips people up. I think that number one, people think they need to set, spend a certain amount of money on certain things. You know, it’s a business expense, it’s a write-off or whatever, anything like that.

But then it ends up that that kind of like runs away. Like, how do you, especially when you’re first getting started, make sure that you’re gonna make the money back that you’re investing, and is it normal for you to run at a loss for a little while?

BrianSamson: Yeah, good question. Um, I think a services business is different from a tech business or a product business. I think tech and product, you’re, you’re funding losses [00:15:00] to get to market quickly. But if you’re running a services business, you should really be making money pretty quickly, right? Um, uh, you know, otherwise, I think you’re…

there’s something kind of missing there. Um, but I will say that I’ve, I’ve made errors on both sides, you know, where I’ve over-invested or I’ve under-invested. Um, you know, this is probably a little bit more, like, further down the road, but sometimes it’s good for people to see, you know, what, what could be next.

Um, right out of COVID, um, I was in, like, the biggest bull market I think I’ve ever seen in the recruiting world. Um, but I was fearful because, you know, I just had, like, all my revenue taken away during COVID, right? So I was very fearful as the market started to pick up fast, like [00:16:00] fast. And, you know, I had, like, uh, somebody on my team who was helping me with delivery and, you know, I, I wouldn’t even, like, spring for her own Gmail, like business Gmail address, you know, like $7 a month.

I’m like, you know, just running so tight. And I look back like, "What was I thinking?" You know? Um, but on the… And then, um, when the market, you know, was at the top of the bubble, you know, nobody knows

Tim Melanson: When you’re at the top, yeah. Yeah

BrianSamson: So, um, uh, you know, I hired a whole bunch of expensive people, you know, and had no idea, right?

And that… So I waited way too long to invest and, you know, I was, I was way too tight when I should’ve been. But, you know, wisdom comes from experience of making the wrong decisions, so I’ll hopefully know next time

Tim Melanson: Oh man, that, that is a, that is a great story. Happened to [00:17:00] me too. It, it is funny how that happens, like when you’re w- when things are, are going rough, like you’re just really scared to put any money into it, and then when it starts to go up, then you start to put too much money into it, and yeah, that does cause some major problems ’cause now y- you’re kinda like, it’s like, what, what did I say before?

It, it, it takes like three months to build momentum, and then it also takes three months for that momentum to disappear as well. So it’s like the things you do today are gonna be affecting you in three months’ time, whether that’s good decisions or bad decisions. So there’s always this lag, and that’s very difficult to get a hold of as a business owner.

Like, so what did you learn from that experience so that, you know, you, you’re ready for that next time?

BrianSamson: Yeah. I mean, I think, um, I’d much rather be lean than overdoing it, you know? Um, so I think I, I’d much rather be lean. But, um, you wanna [00:18:00] build an optionality and flexibility in all your spend, right? So, um, like I don’t think I’d ever sign a year-long contract with anything anymore, you know? know, and even like software, you know, like, uh, um, unless I have like no other choice, like I’ll almost…

Like I’d rather pay more and, and, and even have it like quarterly renewal than get stuck in like a really long-term contract. ‘Cause I’ve, you know, I saw that happen, you know, where, uh, like, oh, you know, go… Let, let, let’s go crazy. Let’s, let’s really try to grow this thing. Get, you know, and then you get crushed for, for a little while.

You’re like, "We’re not… We’re barely even using this software that we spent all this money on." Um, you know, so anyway, I, I would much rather be conservative and then just find ways to, um… [00:19:00] You know, may- maybe you spend more in the, in the middle of it, like, you know, the equivalent of, uh, buying your groceries at 7-Eleven, you know, for a month, right, you know, as you get settled.

Sure, it’s a little more expensive. It’s not sustainable for the long run, but it’s, it’s a finite period, just, you know, overspend because the revenue is, is, is gonna make up for it. But, um, uh, you know, the alternative of, uh, the long-term getting locked in, you know, it’s, it’s something that I would avoid going forward

Tim Melanson: Uh, right on. Yeah, I tend to agree with you on that, and sometimes I think, I think I’m making a stupid move because I’m paying, you know, 20% more by paying for things monthly. But I hear what you’re saying because soft- especially with software, new tools come out all the time. What if there’s a better tool that pops up and you’re on a year-long contract?

I [00:20:00] mean, there, it, it allows you to pivot a little bit more too to a better tool if you’re doing things monthly. Sure, you’re not saving the money, but, but I mean, there are very few tools probably in your stack that, um, that you absolutely are never gonna switch away from. Now, there are a few I’m sure, right?

BrianSamson: Yeah. Yeah, totally

Tim Melanson: but I, and l- I mean, that goes right into the next topic, so let’s talk a little bit about the tools. So what are the tools that are really useful in your business?

BrianSamson: Yeah, um, you know, QuickBooks I’ve used forever. Uh, QuickBooks Online, use it across all the different companies that I work with, invest in. Um, and then I like monday.com a lot, you know. Uh, I use it so much that I even use it to run my household,

you know? Like, uh, like,

Tim Melanson: Yeah

BrianSamson: you know, uploading docs, like, you know, my birth cer- my kids’ birth certificates are uploaded on monday.com, and I can, like, grab it whenever I need it or, you know.

Or, like, uh, we just [00:21:00] took a, a spring break trip, and all the flight bookings and everything was in there. Uh, yeah, so we, we use it all the time, and of course, you know, uh, all across the businesses. So, um, that’s, that’s probably my, my one go-to tool

Tim Melanson: Okay. Do you pay yearly or monthly?

BrianSamson: Um, you know what’s funny is, uh, I don’t think I had a choice with Monday. I think, but, but by then I’ve been like, because I use it for my household too. I’m like, ah, no. Like, there’s no, there’s no getting out of this thing.

Tim Melanson: That’s so awesome. Yeah, no, there, there’s a couple tools that you can pay by, by year, but, but most of them, yeah. No, I, I also use Monday too, and I love it. I love it, and I’ve gotten a few other c- of, uh, my clients that have gotten on Monday as well. It’s such a great tool. It’s kinda like a combination of like, you know, something like Trello and maybe something like Asana, and then you’ve got a CRM in there too.

Like, it’s just, it’s… I, I, I like it. May- I wonder if there’s a referral [00:22:00] thing. We should probably be affiliates, right?

BrianSamson: I think so

Tim Melanson: Right on. So now let’s talk a little bit about learning. So, uh, I mean, you, uh, uh, as you mentioned earlier, I mean, you didn’t come from an entrepreneurial family, but you somehow had to learn all this stuff.

Like, did you have mentors or did you, you know, take part in coaching program? What, what did you do?

BrianSamson: Yeah, I’ve been, um, really ever since I could, I’ve been, um, paying for peer groups. Um, but, um, I’ve been in multiple different ones. Um, and I think that’s important too. Um, so I’ve been in, uh, something called Vistage, which is like a, you know, um… I think it’s like the oldest, largest CEO peer group. Um, uh, so they m- they meet in person, you know, once a month, and there’s usually, uh, some executive coaching.

There’s, um, you know, speakers that come once a month, like, you [00:23:00] know, all about finance for your business or optimizing marketing for your business. You know, they’ll come in, and it’s good. It’s good stuff. Um, and then I did my– I did business school at UCLA, and there’s like a UCLA CEO founder peer group. I was a member of that.

And then, um, and then I’ve been a member of more of like a marketing, um, or it’s, it’s probably more like agency owner. You know, so a lot of people are marketing agency owners, but, um, I happen to run a recruiting agency.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

BrianSamson: Um, but anyway, um, the one, the one thing I think I’ve recognized though is it’s really important to learn from others.

Um, you’re rarely going through a problem that nobody else has gone through. It gives you a better– When people bring their problems, you’re like, it gives you kind of this fun business school environment of, you know, you can try to understand their situation. Does it apply to me? Give, give your [00:24:00] advice. Um, but I’ll, I’ll caution, at least for me, I didn’t wanna be with the same group for the rest of my life, um, because it gets a little stale.

You kind of already know what somebody’s advice is gonna be for you if you’ve been with, with them in the same group for five years. So, um, that might be the one thing that I would advise, just based on my own personal experiences. I try to do a group for a couple years, um, give value, get value, and then find another group of peers.

Um, I think otherwise you start to stagnate and get stale.

Tim Melanson: I like that. I like that. And so do you find, y- so you find the peer situation is better than h- hiring, like, an actual coach that just works with you one-on-one?

BrianSamson: I do. Um, generally in those peer groups, there is a facilitator that’s probably a little bit more senior, so they can, they can help you get that anyway. But I think with the peer group, you get seven or eight other people that are kind of in a similar [00:25:00] boat, um, to different companies and, you know, that founder… The founder problems are unique, you know? Um, because you can’t really tell your team about what you’re going through. So you need to be able to talk to people that are, like, vested, but not all the way vested, you know? And, and, um, there’s no politics when they give you advice, you know? They’re not trying to protect your, you know, ego or anything.

They’re just like, "Dude, that was a really dumb decision you made, you know? But let me give you some advice on how to get out of it."

Tim Melanson: Oh, that’s great. I, and I agree. Uh, I think when… Th- like, that, that’s a really good way to frame it. With peers, like you say, they’re b- gonna be more frank and more upfront about how they react to you, whereas if you hire a coach, well, there’s some power dynamics going on there, right? And so, uh, and, and then also you also get the benefit of [00:26:00] being the mentor and the mentee, I imagine, at, at certain times, which gives you just a better feel.

You, you learn through teaching as well, right?

BrianSamson: That’s exactly right. Yeah, good, good call out

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That’s awesome. Right on. So now it’s time for your guest solo, so tell me what’s exciting in your business right now

BrianSamson: Yeah, I, I think we’re, um, we’re in a good spot where, like, the wind is in our sails. Um, and I’ve been, I’ve been there a few times, you know, where you just happen to sell the right thing at the right time. Um, um, and I’ve also been in the opposite boat too, you know, where, where you sold the wrong thing at the wrong time.

But, uh, there’s a lot of fatigue right now with labor from Asia. You know, the time zone just becomes grueling. Um, the hierarchy, the culture, whatever. You know, if you’ve ever been, uh, on a customer service call with someone in India or the Philippines, you just know, [00:27:00] and it doesn’t always come out, you know, the way, the way you were hoping.

Um, so all the wind is in the sails right now for Latin America. Um, it’s same time zone. Um, there’s cost savings, creative thinkers, good problem solvers. Um, it’s all, it’s all right there. So the 2020s to me are the decade for Latin America, and, um, I’m really excited to be an ambassador for the region

Tim Melanson: Wow. So tell me a little bit more about what you do then. Like, how, how does that work?

BrianSamson: Yeah, we, um, uh, so I’ve been in the space now for 11 years. Um, and we connect all this great talent in Latin America. So Mexico has been a big, um, you know, manufacturing supply chain factory for the world, especially for America. Um, but Mexico and all these other countries provide great, um, like white-collar talent.

So software [00:28:00] developers, uh, marketing, accounting, bookkeepers, call center, operations, that all exists in spades down there. And there’s no sacrificing time zone. Um, you know, if you wanna get on a call with somebody, the sun’s up at the same time that you’re up as, you know, they’re up, and it’s really easy to work that way

Tim Melanson: Hmm. You know what’s funny is that I, I, I’ve never had anybody on the podcast that has talked about Latin America as a, as a place for outsourcing, which is, seems bizarre to me. You hear about the Philippines a lot, and India, and China, as you mentioned already. You don’t really hear a whole lot about Latin America, but that certainly does make a lot more sense that, that they would be e- you know, a lot closer to us, right?

So I wonder why it’s, hasn’t really been on the radar for most outsourcers.

BrianSamson: Yeah, I think, uh, you know, India has existed, you know, since the dot com boom. [00:29:00] The Philippines were, were really good at the call center, back office, virtual assistant world. Um, and then China’s kind of been the factory for the world, you know, forever. That’s always been the big three, and, um, price has been, I think, in the forefront of people’s minds, um, ’cause you’ll never beat Asia on price.

You know, Asia’s always gonna win there.

Tim Melanson: Right

BrianSamson: I think what people are recognizing, especially CFOs, are there is a cost that they didn’t factor in way back, you know, a few decades ago, and there’s a cost of customer frustration and churn.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

BrianSamson: stuff just, like, breaking. There’s a cost of rework. Um, an India software team is gonna be a lot cheaper than a team in Argentina or Brazil.

Um, but if, uh, the software has to be continually reworked, you know, the, the cost per [00:30:00] labor is much cheaper, but if it takes you an extra four months to get it done, you gotta add the, those extra four months in your overall cost and amortize it. So finally all that stuff is being factored into it, and, and Latin America is more cost-effective overall even if the labor is marginally more expensive than Asia

Tim Melanson: Interesting. Very interesting. So why, so is the education system different and better in

BrianSamson: Uh, I think education is, you know, pretty abundant nowadays, um, you know, with, especially with everything online. Um, but I will say it’s probably more cultural, um, that I think really connects because, you know, in the States we’re a lot more comfortable with horizontal organizations, um, sharing feedback upwards, you know.

Um, I don’t, I don’t agree with [00:31:00] this. Here’s why. Here’s a different idea. Um, you’ll hardly ever see that in Asia, you know, there’s lots of layer hierarchy, but Latin America is much more o- organized towards horizontal work culture. Um, there’s a lot of passion explaining, you know, uh, what they agree with or what they don’t agree with, and here’s why.

And obviously, you know, when you make a decision, everyone will, will rally around that. But until that decision’s made, you know, they’ll, they’ll share their opinion. Um, and I think that’s really important, you know, when you wanna have a collaborative work team

Tim Melanson: I agree. That’s, that’s amazing. So then, are, is there a lot of competition in your area as well for-

BrianSamson: Yeah. Um, I think we’re positioned pretty nicely in that we’re a US company with Latin America infrastructure and team members. And, um, you know, I was an expat in Argentina. Uh, my partner was an expat in Mexico. So we’ve got a lot of first-hand experience [00:32:00] with this. Um, and I think it’s hard to, to match those three things.

You know, we can do US contracts. There’s no crazy international wires, but we’ve got long-term credibility and big candidate databases from our team in Latin America, you know, and we can talk about it first-hand, um, and then handle all the hardware and all the complexities. Uh, very few companies can do all of that, but some do one particular thing pretty well

Tim Melanson: Okay. So then what kind of company or what kind of person would get the most out of working with you then?

BrianSamson: Yeah. Um, I think, uh, small businesses that are maybe just a little bit further along, like, um, I really encourage if you’re going to hire, um, and, and maybe this will even cost me a little bit of money here, but I think it’s important that founders and small business owners try DIY hiring, do-it-yourself hiring [00:33:00] for the first couple.

You kind of understand, you know, more about your own process, what you’re looking for, um, how to manage people, you know, all that. A- and then when you’re ready to scale a little bit, um, that’s where, you know, we come in. Um, because, you know, you won’t, um, you’re gonna get probably better efficiencies, access to a much larger labor pool, shortlisted candidates, don’t worry about compliance or anything like that

Tim Melanson: Okay, that’s awesome. So yeah, you’re kind of like the, the next level. And I think you’re right ’cause, I mean, uh, when you’re first hiring you’re gonna find a lo- you’re gonna find out first of all that you probably don’t have the s- standard operating procedures that you should right? And you’re, you’re like, you know, trying to figure out how to actually even do that.

And so that might be wasted time if you’re going to, if you’re going to a bigger company, right? So when you figure all that stuff out and then you make a couple mistakes, then it might be the right time to go and work with you, right?[00:34:00]

BrianSamson: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Once they’re ready to, you know, scale a little bit or they’re a little bit more, um, buttoned up on their process, we’re, we’re ready. Yeah

Tim Melanson: So what’s the process of working with you then? Like, do they- w- what do they do? Do they go to your website? Do they fill out forms? Do they talk to you? Like, how does that work?

BrianSamson: yeah, yeah. Um, uh, so the important thing is, uh, although it’s, it’s like, um, contract labor, you know, meaning, um, just like, you know, you and I talked about, like the monthly, you know, month-to-month, uh, that’s the same thing that we do. Um, so once they’re, once they’re ready to do that, we don’t charge until we’ve, um, not only found you the candidate that you like and you wanna hire, but they’ve started the work, and then we, then we just send invoices for every hour that they bill, right?

And you’ll just get that on a monthly basis. So it’s really low risk, and we do, um, a lot of intro calls, uh, explain how [00:35:00] Latin America works. Uh, there’s a lot of people I would call nearshore curious or kind of interested in what’s going on in Latin America, but they wanna learn more. Um, that’s where, that’s where we, we do a lot of educational calls.

So yeah, just go to the website, uh, plug, P-L-U-G-G.tech and fill out a Contact Us form

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Okay, so there really is not a whole lot of risk. I mean, if you’re at the point where you’re ready to hire and you’ve got your procedures in place, then it’s just a, a quick call, right?

BrianSamson: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Melanson: to get, things started.

BrianSamson: That’s right. That’s right

Tim Melanson: Right on. Well, that’s awesome. Okay, so before we go, o- one more question.

It’s probably gonna be the hardest one, and, uh, we’re gonna talk a little bit about music. So who is your favorite rockstar or band?

BrianSamson: Uh, I’m, I, I guess I’m a little older school. Um, I could do U2 any day

Tim Melanson: Mm. Right on. Have you ever seen him in concert?

BrianSamson: Yeah, I saw them in San Francisco once. It was a great show

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it, I’ve seen them at least once [00:36:00] now that I think about it. And what a great show. They had such a great stage setup too. Like, it kinda went right out in the audience and stuff. It was so cool.

BrianSamson: It was great. It was really fun

Tim Melanson: Right on. Do you play any music at all?

BrianSamson: I dabbled with guitar, uh, before I had kids, you know, and like every once in a while, but it’s been a while since I really picked it up now

Tim Melanson: Oh, yes. Well, every once in a while it’s nice to pick it up and strum a few chords, right?

BrianSamson: That’s exactly right. Exactly

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Brian. This has been a lot of fun.

BrianSamson: Uh, thank you. Thank you, uh, so much

Tim Melanson: Awesome. To the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information, and we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. We’re talking to the CEO and a clinical hypnotherapist for Bespoke Human Potential Coaching. Very excited to hear about this. This is gonna be really cool. What Curtis does is he helps high-achieving CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs identify and release subconscious blind spots that quietly limit performance, income, and clarity.

Super excited to be rocking out today with Curtis McCullom. Hey, Curtis, are you ready to rock?

Curtis McCullom: Hey, Tim, let’s go for it, man. I’m really excited about the fact that, you know, um, you invited me to your show and allowed me to share some things with your audience to make sure that they, on this journey that they’re on, you know. This is a journey, a lifelong journey, and being an entrepreneur, as you well know, it is a journey.

So yeah, I’m, I’m ready to rock with it, man

Tim Melanson: Right on. Well, let’s inspire some people then today, right?

Curtis McCullom: Yeah, let’s go for it. I love it.

Tim Melanson: So we always start off here on a good note, so tell me a story that can inspire us

Curtis McCullom: Well, o- one thing that, that really, what I’ve learned over the years is, Tim, is that, is [00:01:00] that this life is a journey, and if we can ever just harness the power of knowing that that’s what it is. And I think that’s why I created what this framework I call the LEGIT mindset, which is learning, growing, expanding, and transforming.

And so when I, I was asking the universe and like, "Wow, God, what is it that this thing is all about?" Because this is a journey. And the thing that really popped up to me after I read this book called Many Lives, Many Masters by, I think, Dr. Bruce Weiss, i- it was like, it’s all about learning. And if we can ever harness the fact that whatever we’re going through, whatever we’ve been through, it’s just an opportunity for us to learn and to grow and expand and transform

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Yeah, isn’t that interesting that I, I think I heard someone say that the, the, the, the most dangerous words you can say is, "I know."

Curtis McCullom: Became– I like that. I, I might use that. So I, I might s- I, I might, Tim, I might give you, uh, you know, I might say, "Hey, I got this from Tim on, [00:02:00] on, on, on the Rockstar podcast," but then I forget. After a while, I’m gonna forget your name, you know?

Tim Melanson: That’s fine. That’s fine.

Curtis McCullom: And just use it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, but it is a journey of learning, right? And, uh, yeah, I think you’re right. I think as soon as you get yourself into that perspective instead of, like, just reacting to things that are going on, yeah, I think you can be just be a little bit more proactive in the life that you’re trying to build, right?

Curtis McCullom: Oh, absolutely. That’s the whole idea is that we have to understand if we know that going into it, right? It’s like, so I think Zig Ziglar, we can either react or we can respond. Reaction is more negative. Responding is, look at this, this is it. You have the power to respond. You have the responsibility to actually control your own thoughts and your emotions.

So if we can ever just harness that, says, "Okay, what am I going through?" Get- but this is the thing that people have to understand. It doesn’t mean it’s gonna feel good,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: it doesn’t mean that it’s not gonna be difficult, but it means that, but I can go through it. That’s the [00:03:00] key

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. And, and you know what, though? Like, we always look back on those situations, right, that were very difficult, and y- y- you look back at them differently than when you were going through them. Sometimes you’re laughing at them. Sometimes, sometimes you’re just, you’re proud of what you were able to accomplish, right?

But a- at the time, it just feels terrible. But, but you know

Curtis McCullom: I mean, and you know, I, um, you know, I tell… One of the things, one of the things I tell my clients all the time is that back in the day when I first got started, uh, motivational speakers used to say, "Hey, um, uh, if it’s, if it’s raining outside, just think sunshine, sunshine." I’m like, "Come on, forget that.

No. If it’s raining outside, it’s raining. Acknowledge the fact that it is raining, and it’s okay." And this is one of my thing. It’s okay not to be okay, but it’s not okay to pretend that you’re okay and you’re not. So if it’s raining, it’s raining. Acknowledge it and says, "Okay, now what do I wanna do about the fact that it is raining?

Do I wanna be whimsical and go out and just have fun in the [00:04:00] rain and just kind of dance with the rain? Or do I need to put on my rain gear, my, my galoshes, my rain cap, and my umbrella ’cause I need to go in the rain? Or do I decide to just stay home and be productive even though it’s raining outside?"

Guess what? I have the power to respond. I don’t have to get all upset about it in the moment. You know, I can just really walk through it with ease.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, right. And, and I mean, I think that the thing is, is that, you know, problems are gonna happen, and the sooner you acknowledge those problems and deal with those problems, the better, because eventually don’t they always just come back and bite us later on anyway? But-

Curtis McCullom: Oh, oh, oh. This is one thing about unlearning is this, is that one thing about how the subconscious mind works is that it loves to learn. That means that if you don’t get the learning from whatever you’re going through, you have a greater propensity to go through it again, and again, and again until you get the learning.

Like, okay, uh, uh, like it’s, you know, that’s, [00:05:00] that’s kind of the, what the thing of insanity. You keep doing the same thing over, thinking you’re gonna get something different. But the subconscious mind is the same way. It wants to give y- i- if, if you’re not … If you’re feeling sad, it’s just kind of communicating with you, "I’m feeling sad right now," which is okay.

So you can ask yourself, "What is it that, what I need right now in order for me to move forward?" And it’ll give you something, and you can let it go. It’s like a feeling is an emotion that wants to communicate with us and leave, but if we suppress it and not get the learning from it, wow, it, it’s gonna come back.

And it c- my head, my stomach, my back, it’s like it’s gonna get your attention some way, form, or fashion

Tim Melanson: Uh, I love the angle that you’re coming at this with, like, the subconscious mind because I, you know, I’ve, I’ve heard this so many times on a spiritual level. Like, people will talk about you keep getting the lessons over and over again, and it’s the universe trying to teach you something. But, but now you’re coming at it from a different perspective of this is just how our brains work, right?

Our brains are trying to learn a lesson, and so we’re just gonna keep on [00:06:00] subconsciously putting us into situations that repeat the lesson over and over again until we get it, right?

Curtis McCullom: Do we get it? And that’s the whole idea. This is the thing, is like people don’t understand how this thing works. Like, okay, 5% of our being is conscious. That’s our, our willpower analysis, you know, s- I wanna set this goal. That’s the, that’s the part that we know, right? We see that. The 95% is our subconscious.

That’s controls all our behavior, and it on- this is the c- crazy thing about it, Tim, is that it’s controlled by the things that we’ve learned in the past. And every time we have a new experience, it goes out to search down in the past of what it, what, what it knows. So it needs a lesson in order for you to let that new lesson kinda take hold.

It needs to, it needs something to replace it. And so mo- most people do, they try to suppress it, they try to push it down, they try to push it out, and the subconscious mind says, "I need a lesson." And, uh, you know, uh, [00:07:00] third, we’re gonna talk about the next one, is like, uh, is like if you don’t get the learning, the subconscious mind will still get your attention one way form or fashion.

Headaches, stomach aches, whatever other type of ache, anxiety. You’re like, "What the heck is going on?" It’s because you, you have not learned yet. You just need to stop and ask yourself the question: what is it I need to learn from this? How can I now grow from this? This is the thing I wanna share with your audience what not to do.

Do not ask yourself why. Because of the fact that your subconscious mind will give you every reason in the book on why you are failing, why you are feeling, why you’re doing what you’re doing, and you don’t need any whys. You need whats, and you need to know how. You need to know, "What do I need to do?" So ask yourself what questions and how questions, and then what it does is searches your subconscious.

It searches the universe to [00:08:00] now give you the things that you need to kinda continue to move forward.

Tim Melanson: I love that. That’s really cool. Yeah, ’cause the why questions are more or less, uh, what, what are they? They’re sort of finding blame, right?

Curtis McCullom: Oh, uh, and it will find it. It’ll find it. It’s, it’s the, "Tim, you remember when you were a little

Tim Melanson: said this. Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: you were on the playground and that kid said you were not … you can’t play a g- you can’t play an instrument. You remember that, right?" And then they’ll keep bringing up those failures. You don’t need any failures.

You just need to know the le- the lessons from it. So basically, no why questions, what questions, and how questions to kind of keep you moving forward, and it’ll come with some great stuff, what I call inspired, inspired actions. It’ll, it’ll, it’ll give you some ins- something inspirational that can kind of move you forward

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm. Now, so for, uh, some people, I mean, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, uh, especially who already have that sort of mindset, I mean, we’re okay with failure. We’re okay with, with falling. I mean,

Curtis McCullom: Right

Tim Melanson: w- m- maybe it’s because we’ve had lots of them in the past, and we’ve, we’ve made it through, and [00:09:00] now we know that, hey, I’m gonna fall.

I’m gonna get back up, and everything’s gonna be good. But there’s a lot of people that, that don’t, that, that sort of are very, you know, risk-averse we’ll say, right? And they, they don’t wanna get into business because they’re, they’re, they’re afraid of failing. And I, I like to talk about the failures, the big ones that, that, uh, we do because I’m hoping that what’ll happen is that someone will listen to this and go, "You know what? What, what’s, what’s the worst that can happen? If this if this guy can get, can make it, then I can too, so can you tell me something that didn’t work out for you?"

Curtis McCullom: Yes, yes, yes, yes. When I first got started in sales, I was working as a retail manager. I was getting a salary, and I decided to go into sales. I read every book. I listened to every tape. I thought I was ready for this, right? I’m ready to do this. I’m like, you know, Zig Ziglar, Tom Hopkins went and got all these certifications in sales and stuff.

In my first sales job, I remember so clearly, I failed miserably. I mean, [00:10:00] all the money that I had saved, I lost in like three to four, five months. And like, "What the heck is going on?" Until, until I found a mentor that, that, that kinda helped me and like he, he said, he go- he says, "Hey, Curtis, if you do X, Y, and Z, you’ll make this."

I’m like, "What? You mean to tell me if I can just do this type of activity consistently, I’ma make this?" Story changed, meaning like it went from this utter failure. I remember my mom told me when I first quit my job, she’s like, "What in the world are you doing? Are you crazy?" You know, like, and then after I quit and I lost, I’m like, "Well, maybe I was."

But no, that was the beginning of the journey. I needed to understand that lesson that regardless of what I’m going through, I can make it through. And I, I met my mentor. He taught me how to sell. He, he called me in his office every day. And so I made a goal. When I was going through training and [00:11:00] for this company, I stood up in front of my company, in front of the cohort that I was, that I was, uh, going with and told them I was gonna be the number one person in the, in the company.

I gave them my number one speech, and 18 months later, I was the number one, m- number one person in the company. I broke records. I was the youngest person to ever do it. So things can happen when we go through these setbacks. Utter failures that feel like utter failures, but sometimes my wife call it, sometimes we need setbacks to get set up.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Curtis McCullom: So that’s, that’s kinda what my, my biggest, I would m- my biggest failure when I first got started in this business

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I mean, it was fortunate that you were able to not only find a mentor, but also be willing to ask for help, ’cause isn’t that a problem? Don’t… A lot of us don’t ask for help, right?

Curtis McCullom: Ah, ah, yeah, and that’s one of the biggest challenges with entrepreneurs or, or CEOs, and we don’t wanna feel weak.

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: We don’t wanna feel like we’re vulnerable. And even as a professional, I’ve [00:12:00] been doing this now for 40 years, and I still ask for help. When I need help, I ask for help because of the fact that I think we talked about I don’t know it all.

I will never know it all. I will never be– I never operate at 100% because that’s unpossible. So, you know, I tell people, "If we can get you to operating at 80% or more in your business consistently, you’re gonna be a rockstar." You know, think about a baseball player is a rockstar when he’s batting 300 plus.

That means out of 10 times he get at bat, he’s gonna hit the ball only three times. He get paid millions, millions of dollars. So as entrepreneurs, if we could start thinking like that, meaning like, "Yeah, I don’t need to hit 100%. I need to get up consistently hit 80%," and now we’ll b- then we’ll become rockstars

Tim Melanson: Well, and, and I mean, that’s, that’s the issue, right? Because I [00:13:00] mean, if th- that means that 7 out of those 10 times that you’re, that you’re up there, you’re, you’re, you’re failing. And, you know, similarly in business, right? People, people have a hard time with failing 70% of the time. But isn’t that what’s necessary for all of us, really?

Curtis McCullom: Well, basically, one, one of the things I teach people when, especially in sales, is understand your numbers Meaning, like I understand, I understand the numbers. The numbers part of it is … A- and I used to play this game with myself when I was in sales, just purely sales. I was a, I was a certified, certified financial planner and, um, and a, and a chartered financial consultant, and I sold insurance and financial services products.

But w- the thing about in that, you have to understand the game. I th- I call it a game. It’s a game for me. I look at it as a game. And I knew that espe- back in the day, we used to do cold calling, and I knew that if I dialed 25 people, that I was gonna talk to four and I was gonna close two. That’s [00:14:00] my numbers.

I knew that. I, and, and when you know the numbers going in, the beauty part about it, you know what to expect. You know it’s not failure. It’s part of the game. So when I got a no, instead of saying, "Oh, shoot, I got a no," I’m like, "Yes, that’s one out of the way. Give me the next one. Give me the next one. Give me the next one."

‘Cause I knew, I knew my numbers. I understood that it’s just a game. And so when we’re starting as an entrepreneur, when we go into it, when you first start, you won’t know your numbers. You won’t know what it takes. You won’t know all that data. But the more you consistently do it, you’ll find yourself saying, "Okay, now, so it, now I know that if I talking to 10 people, I’m gonna close three."

Two things has to happen in order for you to increase your income. You have to either talk to more people or get better at what you do, and that’s the key to it

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and the, and the, the easiest thing to do is talk to more people, right? Getting better at what you do is gonna take a lot longer, right?

Curtis McCullom: Right. Uh, well, well, you, right, and then over time you get better what you do, [00:15:00] right? Because the more you do it, you say, "Oh, okay, if I said it like this instead of that, I noticed that most people, more people respond to it." Right? And so it’s like, it’s, it, it’s like this balancing act, but understanding when you’re going into this new venture that, you know, I’m gonna have some setbacks, but those setbacks are sometimes the setup.

I understand the fact that everybody’s not gonna like what I’m doing. Everybody’s not gonna like my product or service or what am I doing, and that’s okay. One of my, one of my things is that I’m looking for individuals that are looking for me. That’s one of my affirmations I almost say every day. I’m looking for individuals that are looking for me, and being Curtis, being authentically myself, is more than enough

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Um, now, uh, I mean, that, that’s another comment really because, I mean, if, if you look at it from music, I mean, if you’re a country band and, you know, you’re talking to people that love metal, you’re probably not gonna have a whole lot of success. [00:16:00] So f- so finding the people that are looking for you, h- how do you do that then?

Curtis McCullom: But basically, and that’s where it is- that’s where the magic actually has started to happen. Because when I first started this coaching business that I’m in now, I started about six years ago, didn’t know what the heck I was getting into. I was getting out of financial services. I retired from financial services, now I’m going on a totally different visual.

Now I understand sales, I understand all of this, but this is something totally new. And so I had to start to find my voice, right? And this is the challenge sometimes with finding your voice, is that everybody be, what they call, shitting on you. You should do this, you should do that, you should do this, you should do this, right?

And so you have to figure out what you need to do, what makes it right for you. And what I found for me was it takes a little trial and error. So basically, you try something, oh, that didn’t work, that didn’t feel right, and try something new. But don’t, don’t… Get the baseline first down, right? And, you know, I think in [00:17:00] music you have to get the, the melody down, and then you can always start to riff and start to do other things.

But if you start changing the whole thing all at one time, you’re gonna mess up the song, right? So the thing about it is like, get the baseline down. Um, um, um, um. You got the baseline down, right? Now, you said, "Oh, this is not working. Let me change it just a little." Don’t change everything, just change one part and see will that make a difference.

So the baseline first and then build on it. And then, you know, once you get it, then you can start to riff. You know, you can start to do what you wanna do with it

Tim Melanson: Yeah, well, I mean, that, that, that’s the thing too is if you’re trying to figure out what made the difference, how would you know if you changed everything at once? You have to change one thing and see what makes the difference, right?

Curtis McCullom: Right. Change the one thing. So first of all, get a baseline. Okay, this is what I’m gonna do. This is what feels right for me, for me. Uh, uh, ’cause everybody else gonna have… This is the thing, too, and that’s why my company’s called Bespoke Human Potential [00:18:00] Coaching, because I understand that everyone is different.

Now, I have a framework in which I work from, however, my approach with you might be totally different than my approach with someone else. Why? Because you’re more auditory. You are more musically inclined. So when I’m talking to you, I’m gonna talk with language that’s based on what you already know and understand.

Your world. Your world is music. Why will I talk about, why will I talk about farming with you? You have no idea. Maybe you do, but, but farming is not your thing, but music is. So I can communicate with you because I can talk about music, the rhythm, the baseline, and you be like, "Oh, yeah, this dude got me," because that’s what it’s all about.

So it’s, it’s really those little fine things like that

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And, I mean, that’s really good advice for, for anybody ’cause, I mean, whatever business you’re in, um, finding people that have side hobbies that are similar to yours is a really good place to start because, I mean, if you’re, you know, providing [00:19:00] insurance to people who like farming and you like farming, you know, that, that’s a, that’s a niche, right?

I- it’s, it’s something that you can focus on, right?

Curtis McCullom: Right, that’s something that already… So like, like f- with you doing what you do, like you told me w- before the show is like, "Hey, I’ve been doing this like jam session thing like for years." That’s your thing, right? You know, so, so it’s like why would you do something different? You’re already doing something that you love to do, and now you’re attracting to people…

Now you are attracting people who already love what you do. It’s like, that’s, that’s the thing. That’s the sweet spot, and that’s one of the challenges that most of us have is that we try to sometimes go outside of what we know. If we can just, if we can just figure out what we know, that we’re passionate about.

Now take that and utilize it in our business and market to individuals that, that have the same interest, that have the same mindset, that have the same… So that it’s not very, it’s not as hard. It’s not as difficult[00:20:00]

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, well yeah, ’cause, uh, I mean, i- if, if, uh, I, I think a lot of people sort of have this, especially when they’re first getting started, they need clients. So it’s like, "I’m just gonna say yes to everybody," right? But then you realize real quick that, you know, some clients are just a lot easier to work with than other clients because you just get along with them, right?

And

Curtis McCullom: absolutely.

Tim Melanson: why not? Why not focus on them?

Curtis McCullom: yeah, right. Absolutely. Yeah, trust me. I kn- I’ve, as we used to call it in, in insurance, we kissed a lot of frogs, you know? And, and when you first starting, I mean, I’m not saying that that’s not a bad thing, because you don’t even know, sometimes you don’t even know what you don’t know, right?

So sometimes in order to figure out what you know or what you don’t like, you know, you gotta, you got, "Oh, I tasted that. Nah, that doesn’t, nah, that’s not the one. That is not the one." Or, or, or like coming to music and says, okay, somebody’s playing this, this rhythm and you’re like, "Ah, no, that’s not it. That’s, I don’t feel that," right?

[00:21:00] And so sometimes we have to test out things to figure out what it is right for us. And once we figure that out, then we can really run with it. But some- it’s a little trial and error. You have to kind of s- be willing to go through that process, and that’s the key to it, understanding that it is a process.

It’s not, it’s not gonna be instant. And if it is, if it is instant, watch out, because that could be a big set, setback because of the fact that you didn’t go through a process yet. You don’t know what it feels like to have some failures. ‘Cause you said like, "Man, I started this business and I instantly started to make da, da, da, da," and all of a sudden you hit a brick wall, you don’t know what the heck to do.

So sometimes in the beginning it’s really nice to go through some, some little heartbreaks and some setbacks because that builds that, that muscle, that builds that strength

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I don’t think everybody would agree with us on that, but, uh, but yeah, having those initial difficulties growing is better than coming out of the gate [00:22:00] real strong,

Curtis McCullom: uh, man, I’ve I’ve had both. I had both. And, and what I’ve learned is that, is that… ‘Cause I’m still gotta get the le- lessons,

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: and sometimes it’s more difficult because I’ve had so many wins. I don’t know what… I don’t even know how to, how to, how to go back to kind of reprogram it. I don’t know what…

I don’t know how to troubleshoot that. But trust me, either one, just be prepared, right? Just be prepared. It’s a, this is, this is a journey. It’s a lifelong journey, and it’s all about learning, it’s all about growing, expanding, and transforming. So yeah, just understand that, and that’s all

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Now, I’ve been working from home for a long time, and, and I mean, a lot of f- a lot of people learned how to do it in the last five years, right? Uh, b- you know, because of what, what ended up happening. But I’m wondering, like, uh, setting up a good home office and, and having a good space to work, it’s pretty important stuff.

I’m wondering, what’s your approach to it? Like, how does your, how does your office work for you?

Curtis McCullom: Ah, man, my office is everything. I mean, you know, I talk to people all over the [00:23:00] world right from this space right? Most of my coaching, 99% of all of my coaching, one-on-one coaching comes from here. And having a home office that’s right for you is so important. That’s your environment. Basically, think about your environment is this conducive area where now I can flourish.

And so even if it’s just a corner in your house, make it feel like it is an office. Make it feel like you are going somewhere to do something. Because now you’re separate… Because you’re accustomed to doing that, especially if you had a, a job job, you’re accustomed to getting up and going somewhere. Now, and this is one thing that I would suggest that people do, is that don’t put it in an area, a living space.

What I mean, like, if it’s in your bedroom, make one corner of your bedroom your office and not your whole bedroom, because you need some separation. You need a place that you now, "I’m in this area, this is for sleeping. I’m going to this corner, that’s [00:24:00] for working." So now, because one of the things that people fail to do is look at it, at it like it is a job.

And it is, and it is a job, so you have to still have a conducive environment to, to do the work that you need to do. So I always say create this space. This is your space. Knowing when you go into that space, "I’m going to get something done. I’m going to work."

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I’ve even heard people say that they’ll put on a shirt and tie even though they’re working from home, right? Why not?

Curtis McCullom: Um, r- right now. A- and that’s one thing about it. Now, what- do that work for everybody? Maybe not, you know? B- but you have to test it out and find out what works for you that’s gonna put you into that mindset of, "Now I’m at work." Because if not, you’ll get… It’ll, it’ll, it’ll get to the point where, you know, sometimes I do work inside in my house.

I have a big kitchen counter. But most of the time, I, I come out to my office, because here’s why: it’s quiet, it’s more conducive for [00:25:00] me, I can just really focus on what I’m doing, and it’s a much better environment to get things done

Tim Melanson: Okay. Are there other people in your house? Like, is it difficult to get them to understand that you’re working and, and, uh, to give you that time?

Curtis McCullom: One, that’s one of the things, you know, I, um, um, m- it’s just me and my wife. Uh, all of my kids are grown, and so it’s just me and my wife here. And so the way my house is designed, I’m fortunate, and the way my house is designed is that I have to go, literally go outside my front door and walk another 10 to 15, 20 feet to this space, right?

This space that you everybody see. So, so basically it’s private. Nobody’s here but me, and that makes it very easy for me to do. Now, back when I was first starting many, many years ago, I just had a corner. I just had one space. But being an- b- being an s- entrepreneur or this, this home business type thing practically all my life, my wife know and understand what it takes for [00:26:00] me to actually succeed, and she’s always giving me that space.

So when other people are in your space, you need to have that conversation with them to let them know when you are working so that they, they understand that, so that they’re not actually impeding your progress. If not, uh, ju- just same thing, though. Think about it. When you go into a office office, people will come to your desk.

People… When I was in the office, I didn’t get much work done because everybody keeps coming into my office, you know, bugging me and, and same thing can happen at home. You gotta set boundaries. That’s the, that’s the word I’m looking for. Have to set really clear boundaries where if you do have kids, if you do have a dog, if you do have a, a wife or a spouse or whatever it is that you have, just make sure you have clear boundaries to let them know, right this time I’m at work

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And, uh, sometimes it can be difficult to get kids to understand, but, but they learn quickly though. C- i- you know, especially if they’re very young, they, they, they get it, [00:27:00] right? They probably learn better than some adults do, ’cause adults just don’t understand what you’re talking about. What do you mean you’re working from home?

Can’t you help me? Like, know? Right on. So, like, let’s talk a little bit about the tools that you’re using to get success in your business. I mean, hey, there’s tons of them nowadays. Like, how do you, how do you, you know, keep the shiny objects away and just use the things that you need?

Curtis McCullom: And that’s one of the thi- that’s, but that’s one of my weaknesses, uh, Jim, is like I, I, Tim, I, I love, I, I love shiny stuff. You know? So like I was telling you before, you know, like you don’t need, you don’t need… I mean, I was telling you about the camera setup I have right now, right? You know, I have two lights.

I have a light here coming down. As you can see, the background lights. What you see behind me, that is actually my office. That’s not a filtered background. That’s my office. That was a TV. So basically, do you need… For my business, part of it is being an authority, right? And so I want to make people feel when they come into my office like, hey, Curtis [00:28:00] has a feeling, or he has, uh, that his office feels like he knows what he’s talking about, ’cause I do.

But I want them to feel that. So I think whatever, if, if you’re doing something like this, you need something that’s conducive that you don’t want it… I, I’ve seen it where I’m, I’m going into other people’s rooms, and they’re in their bedroom, and the bed is not made up, and there’s clothes all over. That’s not cool.

You wanna make sure that you’re in a conducive area. So for me, I like equipment. I like toys. So y- you talking about me, like I said, I got a, what, a $3,000 camera body, a 2,000, $3,000 lens there, and all this kind of… I love that kind of stuff. I love sound. I love… So, you know, I have Adam Studio. What is that? Yeah, yeah, the, the Adam Auto, uh, audio monitors and a- all this stuff.

So y- do you need that? No. But you need something that it is that’s gonna give you what you want to make sure that you are successful

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And then you can, yeah, I mean, [00:29:00] you can upgrade that stuff as time goes on,

Curtis McCullom: Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man, if– I didn’t start here now. Trust me, I didn’t start here . I didn’t start here. That’s where I am now. When I started, you know, whatever I could do. I could use the, the, the camera on the computer. That’s all I had. But wherever you are, don’t let that prevent you from starting.

Because at the end of the day, people don’t buy that stuff. They don’t. They don’t care. They don’t ca- They want– Th- they don’t care what type of camera I’m using. Only thing they care about, can I solve a problem? And that’s what people really want. They want somebody that’s authentic. So work on you being the authentic being that you can be.

Work on yourself becoming the best version of yourself, and all the other stuff will come. So you’re talking about what’s really important. What’s really important is your mindset and who you are, being authentic, a being, being an authentic being. That’s what’s the most important thing

Tim Melanson: So this is probably a per- [00:30:00] perfect time to give you the solo then. So tell me what’s exciting in your business

Curtis McCullom: Basically, look guys, this is the deal. You know, I can help you, and the best way to get in touch with me is come and visit my website. It’s at, at Bespoke Human Potential Coaching. That’s one, the long way to get there, or you can come there from curtismccullum.com. Either one. And when you get there, you’re gonna have an opportunity to either do a free 15-minute, uh, uh, clarity call with me, and then I also have a couple of things on that site that kind of…

some tools that you can utilize to see where, where you are on your journey so I can actually help you best. Maybe I can or not. It– This is the thing about it, though. If I can’t help you, I’m gonna let you know, and I’m gonna point you into the right direction. And this is the thing. I don’t work with people who are not ready to work.

You know? So it’s like one of the things I, I tell people all the time, "On a scale from one to 10, how bad you wanna change this?" And you tell me a four, [00:31:00] I’m like, say, "You know what? You’re in a great place right now. I don’t work with fours." The reason I don’t work with fours is because of the fact that I don’t wanna mess my track record up.

When I come– when you come to me, you gotta come ready to get results. And if you’re ready to get results, come and visit me, get the free consultation, and let’s get– let’s do some work together

Tim Melanson: That’s great. Well, and, and that’s it, right? It’s the win-win. If you’re both winning, then

Curtis McCullom: Oh, yeah. I mean, a- and that’s the whole idea is that because it, it’s like change and wanting to have, wanting to become the best, wanting to increase your income, wanting to figure out what is it that’s stopping me, because we have a lot of talented people out there, but then there’s this fear, this something that’s driving their behavior that’s preventing them from actually breaking through.

What I do, I help you figure that out so that you don’t have that problem anymore. And this is the c- crazy thing about it, Tim, is that most of the time it’s not something that you think it is. You know, uh, sometimes people think, "Oh [00:32:00] yeah, I had a bad breakup six months ago, and I’m still suffering from the bad breakup."

Usually that’s– the subconscious mind stores information based on what we call a gestalt, feelings that are similar. So that’s not the root cause. And most coaches and most therapists, they basically go with that one incident. I don’t do that. Basically, I go back to figure out what is the root cause of this feeling or emotion, and let’s pull up the root so that we can get rid of the thing for, for good.

Tim Melanson: Wow. I, I don’t know if, if this is something you would answer, but what, what is the most common issue that you, that you come across?

Curtis McCullom: I’m not good enough. I’m not good enough, I’m not worthy.

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Curtis McCullom: That’s the biggest lies that, that, that, that people have to overcome. I mean, because that’s a big one because of the fact that… A- a- and this is the thing, because subtle things that we experienced when we were, when we were small [00:33:00] children, and, uh, it could have been an offhanded remark that a parent, a sibling, or, you know, y- your brother, sister, nephew, somebody said to you, but you took it as being true,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: and you continue to replay that.

So when, when, when you, when you come up against things, that’s still feeling I’m not good enough, I’m not worthy, and that kinda drives fear. ‘Cause I’m… The reason I’m fear because I’m feel like I’m not good enough. The reason I’m fearful because I feel like I’m not worthy. So basically those are, to me, that’s the overarching thing of most of the challenges that we have, is that, that, that feeling of, of I’m not good enough

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s crazy. Uh, you know what’s funny is that, uh, when I was first starting to play music, I learned late. I was 22 when I first started playing guitar. Yep. And, uh, about 24, so two years later, was my first gig. And, uh, if, if you can imagine that, [00:34:00] how good could I have been two years later than that? Not super good.

But I was having fun, and someone asked me to play, and so I went out and played. And then people just kept on hiring me. And I remember thinking, "I’m definitely not good enough." But, but I also remember thinking, "People keep hiring me, so I’m just gonna keep on doing it,"

Curtis McCullom: There you go. I love that. I love

Tim Melanson: you just keep on doing it.

But, but I mean, imagine if, like, uh, I, I imagine there’s a lot of people that have that thought, but they don’t get that, that opportunity of someone saying, "Well, I’m gonna pay you for that," right? And, and if they don’t, well then you’ll never know. Like it’s just luck of the draw for me for that one

Curtis McCullom: Well, it’s not, basically you still had a positive mindset. I mean, you still had something in you. That’s, that’s rare that regardless of what’s coming up. Because think about it like this. W- you, as you well know this being in the business, the best singers are not the m- [00:35:00] s- are not sometime the most successful people in the business.

Tim Melanson: I agree with that.

Curtis McCullom: I’m, I’m right. I mean, the, the best players are not the most successful. But they have a mindset of regardless of what, I’m gonna do this, hell or high water. I’m gonna invest all of my time, energy, and effort, and I see myself as being successful. And the most talented sometimes can’t see themself being successful.

They have that mindset of, "I’m not good enough. I’m not worthy." And it’s, you know, I, I’m looking, I’m like, what? You hear those people on, on, on recordings and stuff like, what the heck? Who’s paying them? How do they get a following? Because

Tim Melanson: I

Curtis McCullom: gonna like you. You just got to put yourself out there, man

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. That’s, uh, that’s amazing. All right, well, so how do we, uh, w- how do we find out more? You s- you mentioned your website earlier. C- tell me again what that was

Curtis McCullom: Basically, it’s at Bespoke Human Potential Coaching,

Tim Melanson: Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: or you can go, uh, [00:36:00] .com and- or you can go to curtismccullum.com. You can also reach me on, on, I’m on all the m- um, major platforms. I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on, um, I have a podcast on Spotify, I have YouTube channel, Curtis McCullom, I have Instagram. So you can reach me on any of those platforms.

I got a lot of content out there that people can kinda listen to, to kinda get to know me a little bit. And, um, yeah, so they can find me out there for sure

Tim Melanson: Right on. Okay, before we go, let’s talk a little bit about music. So tell me, who’s your favorite rock star or band?

Curtis McCullom: Uh, I, I’m a old school boy, and m- my favorite probably, Earth, Wind & Fire would be p- one of my favorite kind of bands, right? I mean, because of the sound and the, the instruments and the… Oh my God, it’s just like, I like musicality, right? I like to hear every sound. And so when I, when I buy, uh, a headsets or something, I wanna hear, [00:37:00] I w- I, I wanna hear the distance between the music.

I wanna hear the symbols make the sounds and all this kind of stuff. So Earth, Wind & Fire was big with music, meaning like they had a band. They had a true band with instruments and stuff, and most of these bands these days don’t do that. Um, as far as the greatest, the best singer, um, I love ballads, and so Luther Vandross was probably one of my favorite, you know, of all time.

I went to, every time he came to Southern California, I went to his concerts. And man, man, you’re talking about, uh, music too because he had, I mean, the, the instruments and the things that he had. Live music was something powerful and the separation of the sounds and stuff. So that would be my, my two

Tim Melanson: Yeah, isn’t that amazing? So w- what do you like better, live or on, on your headphones?

Curtis McCullom: Hmm, that’s a good one. If it’s, if, if it’s, if it’s a good live show, because I did go to a live, I think, um, I went to a live show and I was in a, the, the, the, the [00:38:00] vibe wasn’t there because the crowd wasn’t there. So you know, it’s like even on, he was, it was, uh, John, John Legend. I went to a John Legend concert when he came to Ca- when he came to California, and he sang great and everything was good, but the people around me was like, "Ah."

They were just there. They were not true fans, and so you really couldn’t really get into it. So it’s a cardi, man. I mean, I like to crank up, crank up the music and just like listen to it with the headset or live, either one. I mean, I, I like both, but if it’s, like I said, when I went to Luther Vandross concert it was great.

Uh, and so yeah, I like both though

Tim Melanson: Amazing. Thank you so much, Curtis. This has been a lot of fun

Curtis McCullom: Yeah. Yeah, man, I, I, I appreciate the opportunity to come to speak to your audience. And if they need some help and support, hey, I’m here for them. Uh, and if I, if I don’t have the answer, I’ll definitely point you into the right direction. Um, that’s what it’s all about, ’cause I’m looking for… Like I told you before, I’m looking for people who are [00:39:00] looking for me.

Tim Melanson: We’re all looking

Curtis McCullom: and being authentic, right, being authentically me is more than enough. And if I’m not your guy, that’s okay. I want you to help- I wanna help you find your guy or your gal, whoever, who you ever need to actually help you move forward

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Well, thank you again. This has been a lot of fun. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information. And we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work At Home Rockstar podcast. Today’s guest, we have the CEO of SSSE, and what he does is he specializes in using creative deal structuring to purchase cash flowing assets and to build ground up institutional grade self-storage facilities. I’m super excited to be rocking out today with Fernando Angelucci.

Hey Fernando, you ready to rock?

Fernando Angelucci: I am, Tim

Tim Melanson: Awesome. We always start off on a good note. Tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So, um, I think the, the biggest success I had was leaving the corporate life and deciding to chase my dream. Um, I read a book by Tim Ferriss called "The 4-Hour Workweek," and it had a very interesting exercise in it, which was called the fear setting exercise. You know, I was so afraid to leave my engineering job.

Um, I didn’t know what would happen. You know, what if I would fail? And basically what the book said is put basically two lines on a piece of paper, number them from zero to [00:01:00] 10. The top line is, what is the worst thing that could possibly happen? Zero is nothing changes. Uh, 10 is you die. Nine is you go to prison for life.

So there, there’s your range. Now score it. Then go to the second line, also zero to 10. This is what is the best possible thing that can happen? Zero is nothing changes. Ten is you’re living your, your absolute dream life. And so I had ended up doing the, you know, the mental gymnastics, and really the worst thing that could happen was I put it as a three.

I, I still had my degree. If it didn’t work out, I could always go back into the job market. If I was tough on cash for a little bit, I’m sure I could, you know, stay with friends or family, et cetera. But on the positive line, it was a nine. Uh, I should have put a 10 knowing what I know now, but it was a nine.

I said, "Hey, three to nine, that, that makes the most sense." So I ended up quitting, um, basically jumped out of the plane and built the parachute on the way down. I cash advanced almost $100,000 off of 12 different credit cards to [00:02:00] start the business, and then, uh, never looked back. Um, today, uh, I run a, a self-storage private equity company.

We’ve done over 55 transactions across 26 states, over $240 million. I travel nine to 10 months out of the year, uh, working from virtual offices, if you will. Um, and it’s… I’m living my dream life.

Tim Melanson: Wow. So you didn’t, uh, burn the candle at both ends and keep it, keep the job and work at the same time? You just went all in

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So, you know, I started just a little bit, so maybe a couple months doing that, and I r- I realized how much output that I was being able to achieve just in the nights and weekends. And I realized that the longer I keep this up, either I’m gonna get burned out from the business that I wanted to create or the job or both.

And that was not a healthy strategy. So instead of trying to keep my foot in both sides, I figured the best thing w- to do was just focus [00:03:00] 100% of my, my attention on the one thing that I wanted to do that I think would move my life forward, and that’s, that’s what I did. So I, I did some real estate on the side for a couple months and then decided to quit.

And the way I quit was a way that made sure that I’d have no way to come back to that same company ’cause I, you gotta, you know, you gotta set, you gotta set the ability to, to hold yourself accountable. And if you always know that there’s a way to go back, um, you’re not gonna really try as if it’s the last possible thing that you can do.

So I had to make sure that, um, there was no other option but success.

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s awesome. Well, I mean, that’s a really cool exercise that you got into. I, I’m wondering, uh, how did you find the book?

Fernando Angelucci: I’ve, you know, since I was a teenager, uh, I never thought I liked to read, um, but then picked up a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert [00:04:00] Kiyosaki, and then that’s when I discovered the kind of, I hate this word, but kind of self-help books. Books that are not fiction or, you know, things that you can actually apply in your life to make your life better.

Um, maybe sales psychology, personal psychology, mindset, et cetera. So I just started going down that, that rabbit hole of, you know, buying one book, reading it, finding it fantastic, and a lot of these books, they usually reference other books. The authors will reference other books in their books. So then I start buying those, and then all of a sudden in a couple years I have multiple bookshelves filled and, uh, Tim Ferriss’ was one of the ones that I had gotten early on.

I think I was 19 when I read his first book

Tim Melanson: Wow. Okay. Wow, that’s awesome. Yeah, I was in probably my early 20s, so just a little older than you when I started getting into the self-help stuff, and I just remember, like, people, like, thinking I was so weird, ’cause I was always reading these, like, business books instead of the fiction that they’re reading, right?

And they’re like, "Uh, when you say you like to read," they’re like, "Yeah, but [00:05:00] that doesn’t count." I’m like, "It, it counts, I think," you know?

Fernando Angelucci: I agree.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Now, okay, so, uh, along with the good notes, sometimes there’s some things that don’t go as planned when you’re, when you’re setting up your business, when you’re getting moving, and I don’t like to call them failures, ’cause, I mean, they’re all, all learning experiences, but

Fernando Angelucci: Right

Tim Melanson: they are what keep people out of the game a lot of it, a lot of times, right?

They’re just scared about that stuff happening. So I like to, I like to bring a couple of them up or one of them up that might be a bad one that might scare somebody, but you can… You’re still here, right? So can you share a, a story with me?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. Um, you know, I think the, one of the biggest challenges people have when they go into, you know, business, working from home, being a business owner, is thinking that they should do everything themselves because they wanna keep the max amount of profit that, that, that they can. And the problem with that is as you start scaling, you start [00:06:00] burning out, and now that thing that usually made you excited to wake up in the morning, the thing that, that got you out of bed, becomes something that you don’t look forward to doing anymore.

And that’s usually because you’re overworked and you’re not using systems and processes and procedures in your business to either, you know, automate, eliminate, or delegate tasks to people that have, uh, lower per hour, uh, value on their time. So one of the, the first times I burnt out, uh, I was in the single family home space and, uh, buying, fixing and flipping, wholesaling single family assets, not, basically not building up the team like I should have, and I was working too many hours.

You know, I, I went from working a 60 hour per week corporate job to working 80 to 85 hour per week. Basically, I built a job for myself. It wasn’t– I couldn’t call it a business because I wasn’t an owner. I was basically just the, the main [00:07:00] employer, one of the main employees. And then I got burnt out, and it, it, it really made me want to quit and go back into the corporate world.

Um, but luckily did a reassessment, got, um, got some third party advisors into the business, showing us what we’re doing right, what we were doing wrong, where we can put systems and processes, procedures in place. And from that point on, we started to scale pretty heavily until we decided to finally, uh, get into the commercial real estate, um, space or self-storage spec-specifically

Tim Melanson: Hmm. When you say we, who was we at the time?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, so when I started the business, it was just me, and every time I would get a quick win, you know, a small check here or there, 6,500, 10,000, I would take a picture of it and I would send it to my best friend that, uh, was my random, uh, randomly assigned roommate in college freshman year, uh, Steven. So eventually, you know, s- Steven was being a g- good guy about it.

He didn’t like his [00:08:00] job. He wasn’t making a lot of money, and, uh, he eventually said, "Listen, you either gotta stop sending me pictures of these checks or you gotta show me how to do this business." And I said, I, you know, "I thought you’d never ask." So finally brought him in w- and since then we’ve been, um, we’ve been 50/50 partners all the way

Tim Melanson: Wow. Okay, that’s awesome. And so w- uh, if you were to do it again, like would you do it any different or did you need to get to that, to that burnout mark before you could hire?

Fernando Angelucci: No, no, I would have done it. Knowing what I know now, you know, a decade or more later, I would’ve started larger. So a lot of people think that you have to start small and then bank, you know, a l- a little bit of cash here and there to eventually get to the point where you can go to the next level, and then do the kinda the same thing.

That takes a ton of time. And when you look at, you know, our lives, people don’t realize kinda how finite it is. One of the things that I like to do is break down what your life expectancy is into weeks, [00:09:00] and then see what you’re doing on a weekly basis, and you really don’t have a lot of time. So why put the same amount of effort in going after, let’s say, a $100,000 payout when you can put the same amount of effort into going for, for a 10 million or a $20 million payout?

So what I realized in the beginning is that I should have just started adding zeros onto what my goals were and what type of deals I wanted to do, and then realized that I don’t… Again, uh, going back to the previous, the previous no- uh, point, I didn’t need to do everything, and that includes my money. I didn’t have to use only my money.

I could have s- from the beginning, started raising capital from external, you know, third parties to help build the dream, and then give them a great return along the way. And that’s how we’ve been able to scale so quickly over the last, you know, seven to eight years, is by focusing on the point that doesn’t need to be my cash equity, it doesn’t need to be my debt.

You know, someone else can, can sign on the debt for me, as long [00:10:00] as they’re properly compensated. You know, as long as I have the, the operational wherehow, the opportunities, the deal flow, um, I can put that all together much faster. So I w- I just wish f- for… You know, in the beginning, I was flipping $40,000 houses on the south side of Des Moines, Iowa, when I could have already just been building 10 million, $20 million assets from the get-go

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, was there some people that came into your life that helped you, to help you teach this stu- or to teach you this stuff, or?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So this is one of the things that I always tell kinda new real estate investors is, you know, s- surround yourself with people that are successful in your field. Um, there’s, there’s a great saying, I forgot who said it, but you’re the average of the five people you spend the most amount of time with.

So, you know, if you’re spending time with a bunch of people that are making minimum wage, you’re probably going to be making minimum wage. But if you have the ability to surround yourself with people that [00:11:00] are, you know, at the next level or the next two or three levels of where you wanna get to, that will start rubbing off on you.

So easy ways to find this, there’s always local meetup groups, um There’s also, you know, paid membership groups. So if you wanna get really serious about your craft or your trade, you know, you gotta go to the places where, you know, most of the masses aren’t allowed to go because there’s some type of paywall.

Um, and in most cases, that paywall makes sense because then, you know, the, the guys that are doing 100 million a year, they’re not gonna go to the, you know, the community center free meetup on a Wednesday afternoon or Wednesday night, right? They’re gonna go to the 35, $50,000 a year paid, you know, once quarterly, once a, a week-long trip.

So these masterminds are super important. Um, I have always been parts of masterminds g- going through the business, uh, you know, life cycle. I, I learned this from, uh, Napoleon Hill’s Think and Grow Rich, where he talks [00:12:00] about masterminds and how important they are. So I’ve always had a general business mastermind.

Didn’t have to necessarily be about my, my asset class or industry. Uh, and then I would also be a part of a, a, a mastermind that was specific to what I was trying to do at that time. And, you know, you don’t have to start at the $50,000 level. What I always tell people is set aside a number of top-line revenue for educational purposes.

So, you know, start with 1% or 5%. I think 5% is pretty aggressive, but if you wanna scale faster, that’s how you do it. And then that money goes into a special education account. And in the beginning, it may only be a couple hundred bucks, but a couple hundred bucks can buy you some really awesome books, right?

Then all of a sudden you maybe get 1,000 bucks or 2,000 bucks, and that’s a great three-day weekend course that you could pay for. And then very quickly that starts growing, and then all of a sudden you have 10,000 in that account or 20,000. Now you can start paying to get into those higher level rooms, those higher level groups where you [00:13:00] really…

It’s crazy how fast you can compress learning. Something that took somebody 20, 30 years to learn how to do, just by being next to them and, and going to these, these masterminds, you can compress all of that knowledge, all the, the successes and failures that they’ve had into a period of one year for you.

So now you’ve– you’re getting to catapult and almost, you know, skip over all of that pain and heartache and discovery that someone else had to go through. So I always tell people, you know, you can learn from other people’s successes, but you can also learn from other people’s failures. But to learn from people’s failures, you have to be in a room where people are willing to be vulnerable and share those true failures.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I mean, and then that’s the next question. Like, h- uh, what do you think is in it for them to be vulnerable and share those failures and, and, and help you?

Fernando Angelucci: You know, they’re in the room for the same reason. They’re trying to grow and, and level up. Um, there’s that old adage that, you know, two heads are better than one. Sometimes all it takes is a fresh [00:14:00] perspective for somebody to see something that you have been stuck on for one, two, three years, and sometimes it comes from somebody in a different industry than yours.

Because in their industry, they do things a little bit differently. They look at problems differently the, than the way that you look at problems in your industry. That’s why I always say it’s important to not only be in a mastermind that is industry specific, but one that’s just general business, ’cause then you can learn how other industries are tackling problems.

So they’re there to, to learn as well. It’s not like these are people that aren’t getting anything out of the groups. The people that go to these groups, typically the structure is you go… It’s multiple days. They’re broken into rooms, and then each person has to present anywhere between 30 to, you know, 50-minute presentation on a give that they’re giving to the group, something that they learned, something that they think is valuable to the group.

And then at the end of that presentation, they have maybe 10 minutes for an ask. Here’s what I’m working on. Here’s what I’ve been struggling on. You know, q- Q&A. Let’s, let’s figure it out together in this room. So it’s kinda like a sounding board, [00:15:00] almost like a, a board of directors that you don’t have to pay for their insurance and healthcare, et cetera.

So it, it’s, it’s super awesome structure

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and sometimes you can learn from somebody who is even at the beginning of their journey because, uh, maybe you might have gotten away from some of the fundamentals, right? And you’re like, "Oh, geez, I used to do that, and I got success, and now I’m stuck," and maybe that might be the kind of the aha that you get from someone who’s just getting started, right?

Fernando Angelucci: 100%. 100%.

Tim Melanson: So now you do a lot of traveling. H- how do you, how do you set up your, your, your jam space, your, your home office if you keep on moving?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So the, the key is to have a, an office that is easy to set up and take down on, on a moment’s notice, but then also to have kind of processes and procedures in place to make sure that you’re always in a reliable space or reliable mindset. So for example, anywhere I’m traveling, I do a lot of podcasts.

I always find podcast studios to rent. So this is not in my office. This isn’t a virtual [00:16:00] screen. This is a real podcast studio that I rent on a, you know, on an hourly basis. Uh, the other thing is to kinda… For me, because I try to travel as light as possible, I travel around with just one backpack. It’s a travel backpack.

I think it’s 45 liters. Um, so my workspace has to be super refined. So laptop, phone, um, a Wi-Fi- uh, satellite Wi-Fi, uh, just in case I, I’m in an area where there isn’t reliable internet. Or like we were talking before we started recording, you know, there was a period of time where I worked from a Airbnb that I rented in the middle of the, of the, the tropical rainforest, so there was no internet connection there at all.

Um, and then, you know, making sure that you have a proper work hygiene. So just because you’re working from home, I mean, and this is just my opinion, so I’m sure there’s a lot of people that would disagree with this, but just ’cause you’re working from home doesn’t mean that you should be working in your pajamas, you know, rolling out of bed.

Treat it like I at least like to treat it [00:17:00] like I’m going to work. I get up, I take a shower, I brush my teeth, I eat breakfast, I put on work clothes, and then I go into my work space, wherever I set up that space to be. Typically, it’s not in the space that I’m relaxing in because that mental separation is not only good for when you’re trying to get things done on the work side, but then also when you’re on the, you know, the, the balance side, the work-life balance side.

You know, when you’re done working, when are you actually done working? F- and for me, it’s I put away all my stuff, I take off my work clothes, I put on my chill clothes, and I’m done for the day. Um, because, like I said, you want– Uh, for people that have been business owners for long enough, burnout is a real problem, and if you lose your passion for what you’re doing, all of a sudden you’re in a nightmare of your own making.

So you gotta make sure to set boundaries, just like you would set with someone else paying you. You know, you’re not gonna answer phone calls and emails on the weekend when you’re with your family. Why would you do it in your own business, [00:18:00] right? So just making sure that you have that, that proper hygiene is super important.

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s, that’s really good. I remember actually when I was first starting to do, uh, cold calls, I, I actually did put on a suit and tie to make phone calls, and it, it actually did help. I, I was, I was more confident on the phone. It, it just was, it is what it is, right?

Fernando Angelucci: Look good, feel good. You know what I’m saying?

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Now, uh, I, I imagine that, uh, it might be a little bit weird for the people around you.

Like, what are you doing sitting in your office with your, with your suit on? But I mean, hey, if it works, it works, right?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, exactly. There’s a ton of books on, on, uh, the psychology of this exact aspect of working from home and how do you separate work-life balance that I’ve read, and it’s– I think it’s super important. It may seem weird, it may seem cheesy, but it really does have awesome results, uh, both from stress levels and from, you know, being laser-focused when you are in work mode, and then being super relaxed when you [00:19:00] go out of work mode into, you know, chill mode or, you know, I’m at home.

You know, ’cause y-you’re in the same space usually. You’re in your home, you just move from, I don’t know, your kitchen or your office to your, to your living room, or in some cases, like when I first started, I was in a st- a studio apartment. So there was no different zones, if you will. You ha- I had to, like, make my own zone.

So that’s why I forced myself to, you know, put away all my things, put them out of sight, ’cause just even seeing my laptop would, would start making me think about th- work again when it was 9:00, 10:00 PM. It just started disrupting my sleep. That’s not healthy. So making sure that you have proper work hygiene, I think, is one of the most important things, um, for your kinda jam space if, you know

Tim Melanson: Now I don’t, uh, I don’t remember, um, I, I don’t know what’s going on in, in, uh, school systems today, but I know when I was going to school, I don’t remember a real big, um, curriculum on cash flow and, and that kind of stuff. And I, I’m wondering, like, uh, is, you know, how do you learn [00:20:00] that? How do you keep that going?

H- how do you make sure that you’re making more than you’re putting out? Like, do you keep an eye on those numbers every day? Do you have somebody

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So, you know, there’s obviously levels to this. So at the beginning it was, it was just me. Now I have a full, you know, bookkeeping team and an accountant to handle that stuff for me. But in from the beginning, you know, for your listeners that are thinking about taking the plunge, you always gotta focus on your profit first.

I know this sounds kinda backwards. Most people think, "Hey, here’s the revenue, pay all your expenses, and then whatever’s left over is what I’m gonna take home." But what you end up realizing is expenses start growing as the business start growing. So if you don’t take profit off the table, you have problems.

So there’s a really good book, I’m, I’m s- blanking on the author, but the name of the book is called Profit First. I really recommend people take a look. I not only use that system in that book for the business and the, the multiple businesses that we have, but then also for my personal life. I created a profit first flow that makes sure that I’m taking [00:21:00] chips off the table all the time because I…

You know, in these masterminds, I’ve met guys that, you know, that they had successful businesses for a decade, two decades, and all of a sudden they f- they file for bankruptcy. How can that be? Right? How can you be successful for multiple decades and then have nothing to show for it at the end? And it’s usually ’cause they were never taking chips off the table.

They just kept reinvesting into the business and then all of a sudden, once the business was no longer viable because either the economy changed or we had a p- global pandemic or whatever happened, they had nothing to show for 20 years of work. So I think that’s a huge mistake that a lot of people make right off the bat.

So definitely read Profit First. I think it’s Mike Michalowicz, I think is the name of the author. Super cool guy. I saw him speak in person, really animated dude. Um, so go out and ch- and check out that book. And then the second thing that I’d, I’d tell people to focus on is when you’re… You know, you gotta have clear goals.

So when you go into business [00:22:00] being extremely vague, um, you don’t really go anywhere. It’s like getting into a car without a GPS or a map, and then just driving hoping that you’re gonna get to your destination. That doesn’t work. So the other book that I tell people to read is, uh, Traction by Gino Wickman, Gino Wickman.

Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman, and it basically shows you how to set up a operating system for your business with very clear and concise goals on a 10-year, three, five or three-year, one-year, 90-day, one-week, and daily level. So you know exactly where you are and ha- you have a scorecard that you can easily look at to see, am I on track or am, am I not on track, and why?

So those are two books I really recommend for as far as cash flow management goes.

Tim Melanson: I love that. What other tools do you use? I mean, you’re, y- I mean, you probably have a pretty good tech stack, right? Be- being, with doing all your traveling. What, what, what do you use?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, now it’s been getting a lot easier, but when we first started this business over a [00:23:00] decade ago, um, the– we– you had to be very, um, nimble, and you had to be able to kind of MacGyver things together. Uh, now there’s a lot of full tech stacks that are kind of all, all-encompassing. But then what I found out is, you know, that the KISS method, keep, keep it simple, stupid, is still a really great adage to keep in mind because you can get, you know, over your skis and all of a sudden decide that this, you know, this Salesforce massive package that costs $10,000 a month that’s gonna solve all your problems will solve all your problems, and then it doesn’t.

So what I found is that, you know, e- I l- I live on Excel. I love Excel. No, no reason to migrate from that. Email, email client is great. Um, I do have a, a CRM that I use. It’s kind of… It’s called Asana, but there’s many similar to like ClickUp and Monday, and there’s a ton of them. Just kinda helps keep projects-oriented tasks, and the great [00:24:00] part about it is those tasks also have deadlines that they start pinging you via email or even text message if you allow it to, um, so you can kinda stay on track.

So, you know, as far as total tech stack goes, we have, um, Asana is where we live kinda most of the time ’cause that’s what keeps the rest of the team and the rest of the company oriented towards their specific goals for their specific departments, et cetera. But then also it flows up to the company-wide goals and what we as the owners are setting for everybody.

Um, and then, like I said, just kind of super basic stuff, keeping it simple. Excel, uh, G- we use Gmail. We use the, the corporate version of Gmail, but it’s still a Gmail account. Um, pretty, pretty basic. And then, you know, with, uh, with all the AI stuff that’s coming out nowadays, um, we, we do dabble a little bit into, you know, some of these LLMs that help reduce the amount of time it takes to produce certain deliverables like presentations [00:25:00] and, and summaries of financial data, things like that.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Um, and, and that’s the thing. I mean, sometimes these all-encompassing sort of tech stacks might be kind of mediocre at everything rather than picking something that’s, like, really good at what it does type thing, right?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, and then not only that, but then it’s also a single point of failure. So we saw recently when there was like a massive outage, I think it was the Cloudflare, C- Cloudfla-flare, something like that outage, took down something insane like 23% of the internet. So if you had everything in your business housed on one of these CRMs that was a do everything for you CRM, and now you have no access to that CI- CRM for gosh knows how long, that could be a huge problem in your business, especially if it, your business deals in kind of very tight deadlines and large money transactions, things like that

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah, and you see a lot of businesses running their, you know, their whole marketing on Facebook or whatever happens to be their social media platform too, which is super [00:26:00] dangerous, right? I mean, something could happen. You could lose your profile, right?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. Sing-single point of failure. You always want at least two to three vendors for every, every thing that you need, every vendor that, that, that you’re looking at to use, so

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I love that. Let’s get into your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your business right now

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. So, uh, up until recently, how we’ve raised money for every one our deals were what are called single asset syndications, which means that when I need money for a deal, I go out and tell people, "I need money for this one deal." And the hard part about that is before I can raise the money, I have to get everything else lined up, the financing, the deal, everything.

Which mean- meant that I usually only had couple weeks, three to, three to eight weeks to raise all the money I needed for some of these projects that were pretty large, you know, $15, $16 million build that I had to raise $3 to $5 million on. The cool thing that I’m super excited about now is we have launched our [00:27:00] first fund, and it’s actually a general partner fund which offers kinda higher returns than what a limited partner fund would offer.

So now we have kinda like this, this, you know, this track record from the single asset syndications. All these investors are coming into the GP fund, which now means that we have cash to play with before we actually need the cash, which allows us to do some very creative things. So for example, when we’re negotiating, um, a purchase on a property, we can say, "Hey, here’s the regular price.

Here’s a severely discounted price, but we’ll pay you in 10 days. We’ll give you your entire purchase price," and it could be a couple million dollars, right, in 10 days. And usually there are some people that are willing to accept that because time is money to a lot of people. So super excited about the GP fund.

It is our first fund. It’s a $25 million fund, um, and it invests alongside me and Steven as the owner on a lot of these single asset syndications that we do. So, um, super excited about that. I know it may sound a little bit like gobbledygook to some of the [00:28:00] people that are out there, but in the syndication space it’s a, it’s a huge milestone.

Tim Melanson: Hmm. Cool. Now, what is the type of person that would benefit from that?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, so we help, um, you know, a lot of high income, um, business owners and W2 investors. So a lot of what we do is focus around tax advantageous structuring of deals. So for example, we closed on a deal in Rochester, New York, uh, at, uh, on New- uh, literally on New Year’s Eve. Um, and every investor that invested into that project, for every dollar they invested in, they got to write off 90 cents on their, uh, tax returns, uh, for any passive investments on their K1.

So that was huge, and it helped a lot of our investors out that were trying to, you know, plan taxes. They, maybe they didn’t, uh, hold tax money in a reserve account as they were working throughout the year, which I know has happened to a lot of new business owners. [00:29:00] It happened to me when I was a new business owner.

You know, because now no longer it’s being taken out of your paycheck ahead of time, you’re just getting all that money and then you forget to set things aside. So then they come scrambling to me and say, "Hey, Fernando, I have a $300,000 tax bill. I have $50,000 to pay this. What am I gonna do? Can you help me out?"

I said, "Actually, I can. I have these deals that you can invest in that will lower your tax burden." So, um, y- you know, typically high, high income W2 earners, uh, business owners, especially if you’re a business owner that you have passive gains that you need to offset, we’re very good at offsetting those

Tim Melanson: Hey, interesting. All right. And, uh, I mean, that leads to something that we could have talked about earlier, which is the tax issue, right, in, in your business and making sure that you save enough money for the taxes, right? Wow. So now how would someone f- what’s the process of someone finding out more information about this?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, so there’s, there’s– I always tell people there’s kind of two ways to reach me. So if you’re more of a active outreach guy, you’re a cold [00:30:00] caller, you’re a sales guy, you’re, you’re listening to this right now and you’re just like, "Fernandez, just give me your number. I wanna call you right now," here is my cellphone.

My, my real cellphone number is 630-408-8090. So for all my extroverts out there, 630-408-8090. If you’re somebody that’s more of an introvert, let’s say, or a little bit slower to, uh, reach out when you have questions or, or interests, you know, I always tell those, those folks to go to our website. It’s www.ssse.com, and there you can find out all about us, what we do, uh, the 100-plus podcasts I’ve been on, um, a f- a FAQ page with video responses to every question.

I think we got like hundreds of questions on there. Uh, and then if you want to schedule a call on your own time and terms, there is a link that you can go right to my calendar, and you can schedule a time that works for you

Tim Melanson: Okay, awesome. All right, so before [00:31:00] we go, let’s talk a little bit about music. Who’s your favorite rock star?

Fernando Angelucci: It’s a tough,

Tim Melanson: Yeah

Fernando Angelucci: a tough question. Um I mean, I know we were talking about this before. I don’t know if I can pick one of the guys in the band, but my favorite band of all time is Umphrey’s McGee. It’s a jam band. They are pretty rock heavy for a jam band. So I’d say if, if you’re allow, allowing me to answer with a whole

Tim Melanson: fine. Yep.

Fernando Angelucci: Okay. Umphrey’s McGee

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Right on. And so y- you like, w- what do you, have you seen them in concert? Or like, how, how, do you follow them?

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve probably seen them more than 40 times live. I go to the, you know, I go to the music festivals that they headline. I, I camp out in a, in a tent. Nowadays I’m getting a little bit older, so it’s more of a, I rent an RV and then rent an RV space to g- camp out instead of just being on the ground like I used to.

But yeah, I, I follow them around all the time. I love the, I love the music [00:32:00] festival culture and the food and, uh, exploring new music that you hear just from walking from one stage to another stage. So really love that

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever played an instrument?

Fernando Angelucci: I have. So, uh, piano, guitar, I sing. Um, nowadays it’s more of a hobby than, than something I spend a lot of time on. But, you know, high school, college days, I, I was playing guitar a couple hours every day. Piano when I was at home. My parents have a piano in their house. And now, uh, like we were talking before we started recording, uh, because I travel a lot, I go to countries sometimes where I don’t speak the native language.

I found that one of the easiest ways to connect to people that don’t speak your language is to go up onto the stage and sing some karaoke, and you end up making a lot of friends for life real fast.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That is an awesome, awesome tip for sure. Rayon, well so, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Fernando. This has been a lot of fun

Fernando Angelucci: Yeah. It has been a lot of fun. Thanks for having me on, Tim

Tim Melanson: No [00:33:00] problem. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information. We’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast