Navigating Success and Boundaries with Shanan Terale

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar Podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. I am speaking with the founder and CEO of Pearlfectionista. And what she does is she helps first generation professionals to build their vision and use the wealth strategies that are used by the 1 percent to achieve them.

So I’m excited to be rocking out today with Shanan Terale. Hey, Shanan, you ready to rock?

Shanan Terale: Yes, I am. Let’s roll.

Tim Melanson: it. Love it. Let’s roll. So we always start off here in a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by.

Shanan Terale: The story of success. Um, so I’m a first generation college student. I came from, my family lost their home when I was a kid. So my family didn’t have much. And I literally went to an underperforming school, but I had devised a track to one, teach myself what I needed to know outside of school and to get the test scores that I needed My dream school.

And by the way, I almost didn’t even apply. I went to the post [00:01:00] office, had the application all together, went to the machine where you could get that stamp. And with the postmark date on the last day to mail it and actually held the application for almost a week before dropping it in the mailbox, because I was afraid of getting turned down by Columbia, but I realized if I didn’t submit it, I would be telling myself no.

So I dropped it in the mailbox and I said, I’ll release it and see what happens. And a few months later, um, I was accepted to Columbia and went there for undergrad. So that’s probably one of my proudest versions of success because it was a moment of self doubt and I, the biggest hurdle to my dream was actually me

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It’s like that quote, you miss a hundred percent of the chances you don’t take. Right.

Shanan Terale: a hundred percent.

Tim Melanson: So along with the good notes though, and the things that go [00:02:00] well, there are, are some things that don’t go well. There are some mistakes that we make along the way, some bad notes. So I’m wondering, can you share with us something that didn’t go as planned and how you recovered from it?

Shanan Terale: Yes. So, you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And one of the things that I made a huge mistake on was I was the person who I saved. I followed basically all the rules about finance, except I have one issue. I had poor boundaries with my family and I was overgiving. And one of the things that I ultimately had to do was learn.

And then in addition to learning to say no, deal with the repercussions of that because people are used to you behaving one way and then you change and they have to adapt and I had to navigate those relationships now, fortunately, they’ve since improved, but the biggest change was I had to realize that I couldn’t expect them to change.

I had to make the change myself and then give them space to adjust, [00:03:00] which is hard when people are used to seeing you in one light. And. By doing that, though, it created room for them to adjust to the new me and to, for those relationships to heal.

Tim Melanson: Very brave of you. It’s very, very difficult to do that for sure.

Shanan Terale: Yeah, it, it, I’ll, I’ll admit to a lot of tears in the process.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, I mean, there are very few families, I guess, or situations that are going to have, like, none of that type of struggle when you’re trying to go after some big dream of yours, right? It’s just it is what it is, right?

Shanan Terale: I think it’s more common than people talk about. And I think that systemically in life, we experience this. We experience it in our personal relationships, too. Those, you know, the small micro relationships extend [00:04:00] everywhere. We see it in relationships to employers. You may have an expectation of an employer.

They can’t meet it or vice versa. They have expectations of you that aren’t fair. We see it in larger areas of society. So forming healthy boundaries with myself as well as with others and navigating those and still creating space for others in that process. And it’s also sometimes knowing when to move on.

Um, And pull back. It’s a dance, but it’s a dance that we’re all navigating.

Tim Melanson: well and I think so in my experience anyway, and you know the experience of the people around me Is that at some point something’s got to give right? So, you know whether you’re going to get you know, some sort of nervous breakdown You know if it goes that far Or whether you just need some time, whether you just need to say no for, you know, some personal anxiety reasons or [00:05:00] whatever it is.

Something happens eventually. And, you know, but the, I think the struggle or the difficulty is that there, it’s almost like people in your life. Require that breakdown in order for them to take you seriously, you know, otherwise like if you were to just upfront say You know, no, this is what I I have these plans made or this is what i’m doing You know, i’m not going to help you with whatever it is that you know I’m, sorry, but here’s what I can do instead, you know instead of doing all that stuff up front, you know They might get upset of that about that They need you to like, just be like done and then, oh, okay.

Well now we’ll, now we’ll leave them alone. Now we’ll leave her alone. Right. Isn’t that, is that what you noticed too? Or

Shanan Terale: Yes, because ultimately, they need the incentive to change. And the only way they’re going to change is to know that you’re serious. And the thing is, the only way for you [00:06:00] to know that you’re serious is to know, Wait, if I don’t make this change, I won’t exist. Either way, they’re not going to have contact with me now or they’re not going to have contact with me forever.

Quite literally, right? So now at that point, I’m saying I’d rather take the kind road of letting you lose contact with me now so you can have me for the extended future, possibly under certain healthy conditions, but I have to set the conditions that can create that future. And then. Letting them know, okay, but you need to have that thing that says, okay, if I, if I don’t put my mask on, we’re all dying.

If I don’t put my mask on, I’m dying. And that’s the thing that makes you say against that pressure, because we all want our tribe. We all want to fit in. Our family is our first tribe. And to break that, you need something, you need a pretty strong [00:07:00] motivation. It’s not inconvenience that really does it.

It’s. It’s your, it’s an existential crisis that does it, um, to up, to stand up against something like that. So that’s what I found and family needs to know, wait, if I don’t change, I may not have, they, if they value the relationship, they would rather have. something and do what it takes to have something, then nothing.

And it reveals that. So that’s why they realize, wait, I get nothing, but I, but I want, I need this person in my life too. Like that’s my, that’s my daughter. That’s my sibling. That’s, they need that. So they make the changes because now they have a problem. Actions

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. It’s so tough. I, I would bet that this is like a super controversial topic, right? Because, but I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s truly, you know, you, you get to this point where you kind [00:08:00] of hit the end of your rope and now you have a meltdown and that’s, that’s more okay. Then being up front and going, you know what, if I don’t take myself seriously, if I, you know, stop, you know, if I don’t take this me time or whatever this happens to be, then I am going to have a, like a breakdown and you’re going to get that version of me.

Right. But for some reason, that is less accepted than the meltdown itself. You know, it’s like, Oh, the meltdown makes me realize that you’re serious. Whereas you just saying I’m serious. It’s not an app, right?

Shanan Terale: speak louder than words. And I think that’s the biggest thing is when you have that meltdown is your actions start to align with what you’re saying. Okay. As opposed to they’re hearing one message, I can’t, but what you’re doing is saying, yes, I can.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shanan Terale: And because those actions speak louder than words, you [00:09:00] need them to align.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Shanan Terale: hard.

Tim Melanson: It’s a deep start up to this conversation. Shanan.

Shanan Terale: I tend to hang out in the deep side of the pool. Not literally.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Well, so now let’s move into, uh, you know, learning from the best, learning from others. So is this something like, where did this, did this lesson come from somebody else or was this, uh, like what kinds of lessons do you learn from other people?

Shanan Terale: Fair. Um, so I’m someone. I was the kid who studied a lot in school, so I was the person who read so many books, so oftentimes, learning from other people came from reading. Before I had access to anyone, I was the kid who hung out at the library. And Ultimately, those are some of the best minds. Their ideas have stood the test of time in many cases.

And fortunately, I went to a great, some great schools where you have amazing professors and teachers who have seen things that I had [00:10:00] never seen. And as a 1st generation college student, I started off thinking there’s really only 5 opportunities out there. Doctor, lawyer, teacher, police officer, or some type of servant, civil servant.

Type role and of course, politician, right? But which is still a civil servant, but it’s on steroids, right? But

Tim Melanson: should be. Yeah.

Shanan Terale: the ideal. We can only dream. Or live the nightmare, but that being said. Those were the 5 things that I knew other things did not exist as far as I knew. In my area. So how did I discover what else was out there?

Well, I had to read and I had to be around people who had seen things that hadn’t. And the only other way that you can learn is to experience, but there are some experiences in life. I don’t want. So, my thought was, if I learn from some of the best people, and there’ll be experiences that everyone has to go [00:11:00] that are troublesome, like, my boundaries experience, et cetera.

Some things are just your lot in life, but there are experiences that I don’t have to have. And so if I learn from the best minds, I can at least avoid, if I could avoid 50 to 70 or even 90 percent of those, I’m ahead of the curve. And that was, that was my thought. Um, let me find the biggest percentage of the experiences in life that I can avoid, should avoid, just by learning from people who know and working in the fields I’ve worked in.

I’ve worked in professional services and law at what are called big law firms where they have hundreds of thousands of attorneys working on some of the biggest deals that are going on in the world. Well, those are people who have practiced for 20, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, the highest levels, they know a lot.

And so I can’t get that [00:12:00] experience in a very short amount of time, but I can learn from their experience in a shorter amount of time and then apply it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I like what you’re saying. And, and I think that, uh, well, we do learn more deeply, I think, from the experiences that we have, right? I mean, if, if, if there’s a lesson that you, uh, haven’t learned yet, well, then you’re going to keep on coming up with that lesson, right? Until you learn it, you move forward, right?

However, like, I like what you’re saying because you don’t, uh, you don’t have to have those painful experiences if you go and you learn it from somebody else and you just don’t go down that path. Uh, however, you know, sometimes, for whatever reason, we end up going down that path anyway, we end up learning those things.

Um, but I mean, I hear that’s, that’s part of the reason why I’ve got this podcast is because I, you know, rather than learning through the mistakes, maybe you can listen to a podcast and actually listen to someone else’s mistake and, and go, okay, well, I’m not going to go down that path then. I’m [00:13:00] going to go down this path instead.

Right. Yep. And now the success that you get along that path isn’t as much of a teacher as the failure is, but it’s, It’s not bad.

Shanan Terale: It’s not bad. My thought is. If I can avoid some of the, I call them, you know, there are different types of potholes we can face in life. Some potholes are cliffs, and you know, you might be the lucky person who catches the rope that hooks onto you and you can climb back up. Or you’re the person who falls in just the right way and you catch yourself.

You might be that person. My thought is, okay, we’re all going to hit our bumps, we’re going to take our lumps. And there are some cliffs we all have to dive from and just leap of faith, right? And those are, those are experiences. I just didn’t want to voluntarily

Tim Melanson: yeah.

Shanan Terale: jump the cliff. Go cliff jumping. That wasn’t my thing.[00:14:00]

Tim Melanson: Yep.

Shanan Terale: It’s to each their own. And it is a deep lesson when you do, but my thing is, is like, okay. If I take a cliff that the chances of not surviving are really, really high, do I really want to make the bet that I’m going to be the one that does? Versus, I take the cliff where it’s a coin toss. I might be willing to make that bet.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah, it’s true. There’s so many avoidable mistakes that you can make now. Hey, I think that probably part of the human experience is that you’re gonna make a mistake either way, right? So, uh, even on that path of like learning and, you know, doing all the things that you think you’re supposed to be doing, you’re still gonna be making mistakes.

But why not take that path instead of the one that you clearly are going to be making bigger mistakes, right?

Shanan Terale: And that’s my thing. It’s exactly, that is my thing. It’s not that you’re not going to take, make a mistake. It’s not that you’re not going to. You know, have those failures. Like it, it looks on the time magazine version as [00:15:00] if people who are successful just had this straight elevator ride up, that’s the resume version.

But if you really have a conversation with them, you’ll find out, no, we took a lump here. We took a lump here. Matter of fact, we almost crashed out at this point, but they were aiming up versus the mistakes where you’re actually aiming down. You don’t even realize your intention is to drown. It’s like the pilot.

Sometimes they use their equipment and they can’t realize when they’re flying upside down. So they are actually angling their plane to crash because they’re disoriented. I look at wisdom from mentors, people who’ve been there, their experiences as guidance on what aiming upwards actually looks like.

Particularly if you’re struggling with finding out what’s real and what’s true. I think that people act as if it’s so clear. What’s right and what’s true. And it isn’t always, it’s not always obvious.[00:16:00]

Tim Melanson: no, exactly. We, we, uh, we see things from our own perspective and sometimes that can be very different than the perspective of somebody else.

Shanan Terale: it is. Well, if you’re disoriented, what feels what what’s up, what’s left, what’s right.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I, I think that that’s more prominent nowadays. And I, my theory on the reason why that is, is because of things like social media that connects, um, groups that are unlikely to have been connected in the past. Like when I was growing up, There were certain groups that I just wouldn’t come in contact with.

It’s just, you know, I’d be around my tribe, the people that are around me and that, you know, everybody sort of thinks around the same and they’re, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then, uh, you know, to, to all of a sudden be on social media or be in this world where now we’re in contact with everybody all at once for people that think exactly the opposite to what we think.

Right. And that’s kind of like, it blows your mind a little bit. You’re just like, Whoa, I don’t even understand. Like, I can’t even get [00:17:00] myself into a place where I understand where this person is coming from. But to them, they think the exact same thing to you about you,

Shanan Terale: Right. And their lived experience is so different from yours. And for me, I moved around a lot. My family wasn’t military, but my dad. After his identity, my dad’s identity was stolen. That’s why my family went homeless when I was a kid. And so we, he became an it contractor. So we would move to where his contracts were.

So for me, I had the benefit of always moving and learning different perspectives because everywhere I went, there was a different perspective. And I’m the kid who grew up, my mom, my mom was a housewife. And so she oriented us a lot, but. Those experiences, other kids, they were raised by television and whatever television said and told them was the ideal and the way we thought was our experiences were completely different.

You know, their, their moms loved them, but their moms [00:18:00] just, they couldn’t be there in that regard. My mom, I could ask my mom questions. And learn to navigate through that orienting experience, but not everyone has that. And, but is, does it make their experience any less true? No. What it means is they may not necessarily understand what’s creating that experience.

And that’s how you change the lens.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, awareness is the first step that, you know, what, the way you say things might not necessarily be the, the way other people say, I’m not even gonna say the word best. Cause, because I mean, even that is such an objective term. Like,

Shanan Terale: Right. And the thing is, even with the best, there’s still truth. I think that’s the thing that people forget when they might be right about their side of things. There’s still truth to be found on the other side of things, and there are circumstances that are perfectly honest [00:19:00] and reasonable that impact that.

Now, the question is, is how do you equip that person to navigate? Even under the truth of that situation, that’s where the awareness is. It’s not to deny your reality. Awareness is to be informed about how you can navigate the world that you’re existing and potentially choose a different one.

Tim Melanson: I think that’s the most powerful thing right there is that, uh, we, we do have the power to change. And I think that that’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s not as accepted. I don’t think that whole idea of, you know, people will say, well, it’s just the way I am. It’s just the way I am. You know, that’s just the way, you know, and that’s not necessarily true.

I mean, we, we have. Countless stories of people that have turned their lives around.

Shanan Terale: Yes.

Tim Melanson: And, and I mean, a lot of those people will say that they [00:20:00] turn their lives around when they hit some sort of rock bottom and that tends to be the it’s a split. Pretty much exactly what we talked about earlier, right?

You get to that meltdown point and then you make a change, right? That, that you, you know, but, uh, you know, technically, any point, if you’re not liking the direction you’re going, you can change. And is it easy? No, probably not. But you can, it is possible as humans. So, you know, are you going to go all the way down to the end of the road before you turn around?

Or you could just decide right now, okay, I’m going to turn around.

Shanan Terale: I think people have to realize that they have the power to make that choice as opposed to saying, well, I’m from a generation that this is the truth. Well. I mean, okay, do you like the results you’re getting? If you’re quote, you know, maybe you’re not the best driver, are you telling me you can’t go to driver school, you can’t practice driving to learn how to drive better?

Well, yeah, I [00:21:00] am a bad driver, right? Do I have to always be a bad driver? Well, what about my life? If I treat my life like I’m driving a car, then do I not go anywhere because I drive? At that point, well, you know, maybe I’ll take an Uber. There are other options. I can find someone I can outsource it, or I can do it myself.

And that part to me is the powerful part of agency is saying, okay, this is what I can do. This is what I can’t do. And maybe what I can’t do will change over time. If I do what I can, and I think some people also discount the fact that, well, I can’t make big changes. You and everybody else, what all the people that they look up to as superpower human beings just started with something really, really small and then just did that one thing until they could do something else.

Tim Melanson: well, and I think that that probably has something to do with the whole rock bottom situation because [00:22:00] when you do get to a point where you’re rock bottom, you start to build yourself back up, you know, one little thing at a time. And I think that that’s probably the, uh, the issue is that people think that they need to make these big, big changes overnight.

You know, maybe they come into this realization that, oh, you know, my lifestyle is not what I want. This is not what I need. And then they try to change everything all at once. And it just doesn’t work. Right?

Shanan Terale: It’s too

Tim Melanson: So, it’s too much. It’s, and you’re, we’re not even wired that way. We’re, we’re, we’re creatures of habit.

So, you know, to try to change 5, 10. Or even two big ones at the same time, even one big one at the same time. You know, it’s a matter of like breaking that right down into these small little pieces and then doing that. And, and that’s okay when you’ve hit the rock bottom, because now you’re just like any, anything I do is going to be better than where I’m at right now.

Uh, you know,

Shanan Terale: And you can, I agree. And it’s like when you hit that rock bottom and anything that you can do is better than now you hit this point of [00:23:00] acceptance. You accept your flaws because you’re like, well, this is what it is. You acknowledge what they are. You’re aware of them. It’s like, And then you’re saying, well, I can do this one thing better.

And then you see what doing that one thing better yields. And it’s like, hold on, wait, now I have a little bit of momentum. And then I do that. I do another thing better. And all of a sudden you start feeling better. And then ultimately, after a while, that tide changes. And the same way that unfortunately falling and failure is exponential.

So is rising. It’s an exponential trajectory. So

Tim Melanson: yeah, it’s, uh, it’s momentum. Yeah.

Shanan Terale: it is, it’s physics and people haven’t really learned those lessons as much in school as they used to. I remember underperforming high school. I had a physics professor who just gave us 4 charts that look different and said, we should be able to figure out which 1 is distance, which 1 is frequency.

But if you don’t [00:24:00] know, and you’ve never seen acceleration and deceleration, and you don’t understand those underlying equations, what the theory of it is, what it looks like. You’re just looking at these pictures and you’re like, I just see a squiggly line, a line that curves up, a line that curves down, and a line that goes straight.

What’s what? I mean, each one has a distance. How do, how do I measure it, right? So, people also have to get to the point where they have enough of a basis, understand where they are, and then know how to navigate up.

Tim Melanson: So how do you surround yourself? Like, let’s talk about the band a little bit and like, who do you surround yourself with it? How do you choose them?

Shanan Terale: so I’m someone who fortunately, my friends are, I found my tribe, um, through what I was doing. So, as I was doing things that were meaningful to me, learning for me, 1 of those was going back to school and joining groups like forte foundations, um, MBA launch and M. L. T. [00:25:00] Program for helping 1st generation college students get in to and learn how to go to graduate school.

I found my tribe by joining organizations that were aligned with what I was doing. And people who are part of those and met some of my best friends that way, I met some at work. Um, so part of me is finding what I’m doing. 1 of my 1 of the people who I consider a mentor, and I just love his work. Um, what he.

He. Essentially is a CEO who turned around a company that would have gone through chapter 7 bankruptcy. I met him when I was very junior practicing law as a bankruptcy attorney. And his whole thought process. Around how he was able to turn that company around, he did a speech and I just reached out to him.

It just resonated everything about it hit home to me. And I was just like, I need more of this perspective in my life and I would love to stay in touch. [00:26:00] And people, you’d be surprised, people like that are actually very happy to entreat you and to provide any wisdom they can share. And I didn’t, I don’t, I didn’t and don’t really want anything from him except for to learn from him.

Like to hear his thoughts and learn how to integrate the way he thinks into the way I think. Because he has so much, you know, so much more than I do. And sometimes it’s just asking. I’m not saying everybody will respond that way. I’ve definitely met people who I asked questions to and they, you know, gave me the political answer, which is not an answer and weren’t eager to help.

I’ve met those, but don’t let those people discourage you. They’re not your tribe. Find the people who want to help, who want to give you information. You’re not asking even for their money. You’re just asking for a little bit of time. And wisdom.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And, and I mean, Hey, who knows what that person was going through in their life as well, when you ask them, [00:27:00] like, when you think about it from, You know, we talk about the perspective, right? I mean, if, if someone asked you at a bad time, you might give that political answer because you have the deal with it.

So it’s not necessarily a personal thing. It’s not you, right? It’s, it really is just the, the, the, the bad timing, right?

Shanan Terale: Exactly. I’d say 95 percent of the times that you hear. No, when you’re asking for just knowledge and wisdom has nothing to do with you. It, it could be a bad time. It could be that this person has so much going on in their life that, you know what, they are behaving badly. It could be that it could be a number of things there.

Maybe they’re mishearing your question just because of where they’re at, and they don’t think they have an answer and they don’t want to admit they don’t know it. But 95 percent of the time, it has nothing to do with you. The other 5% Well, okay, maybe I can ask, is this a good time, but if the time [00:28:00] was already scheduled and you asked a question, well, you know, this being a good time was not the issue.

It, it’s one of the other two, the things that they have going on. So it’s just not taking it personal.

Tim Melanson: And, and moving forward. Yep. So Shanan, it’s time for your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting your business right now.

Shanan Terale: so I am expanding and I literally creating more of what I would call an evergreen version of my program where I got app approval and was able to get the app release on Google as well as Apple, where I can actually deliver content where people can visually engage with what I’m doing versus just.

Talking 1 to 1, which limits. My audience to people who have much more exposure to certain topics in business and, um, risk management than I would want. I want, I wanted it to be accessible [00:29:00] to anyone who’s operating a business, whether it’s from home, even people who are trying to figure out I’m an employee, how can I be a better employee or create my own opportunities outside of my employer if they can’t create them for me, but I like what I do.

I wanted to make it so. Okay. People have a life guide to how wealthy 1% ers are systemically creating wealth. It’s not by accident. Many of it is much of it is not entitlement since figures what almost two thirds of millionaires are first generation millionaires. It’s yeah, it’s it’s a very high percentage.

Most people are not inheriting it now billionaires. That’s a different story. But for millionaires, it’s majority of people are creating it and hilarious enough. Majority of people, unfortunately, who create well, lose it by the second during their life. Then the second [00:30:00] generation and then almost definitely by the third and ultimately there are certain families out there and I’ve worked for one of them.

It was at a family office. They were a billionaire family. They have systems in place, and it’s a interpersonal system as well as the business systems that they’re using that actually allow them to transition over time. But, you know, not all of this stuff. Is dependent on your actual money. It’s dependent on just knowing how to set things up and doing it for your budget and a lot of it technically is free, but people don’t know how to do it.

And some of it, you do have to require, it does require professional assistance, but that does not mean it needs to be. You know, expensive professional assistance, but people don’t know that because they also don’t know questions to ask. And look for, and even if someone’s a fiduciary, they’re only a fiduciary to your expressed [00:31:00] thoughts and interests because it’s hard to infer what someone does not tell you.

They can assume, but you might actually disagree if you don’t have a good layout, lay of the land. So my goal was to make that more accessible for people. So having an evergreen way of delivering that program for me is huge.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. That’s awesome. So how do we find out more?

Shanan Terale: So one can I do have a newsletter that people can join and I’m always happy to share people share people and they can get free tips for me as well as they can follow me on. On Instagram, I’m on Facebook as Shanan Terale as well as tick tock. I am. Growing my presence in those areas, I admit I am not the person who’s ever wanted to be up front, but I also realize.

It’s not fair. To people to for me to hide in the background. Um, [00:32:00] I have to actually get out of my own comfort zone and speak and show people. Okay, this is these are ways that you can do this. And if they don’t see me, how will they ever know about this? So those are the best ways to get in touch with me.

And I would love it. If people do, they like what I’m saying, like, and follow up. I love to give. As much as I can, some things it’s too much to just share, but as much as I can, I like to give something that people can follow, um, use.

Tim Melanson: So what’s the website?

Shanan Terale: um, so ShananTerale. com is being released and they’ll be able to follow me and then Proaffectionista itself will have a website dedicated, has a website that’s dedicated to the content and talking more about it and what’s being offered.

Tim Melanson: This has been a really, really cool and deep conversation. Thank you so much.

Shanan Terale: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And [00:33:00] thanks. And thanks also to everybody who’s listening, make sure you subscribe, rate, and comment. And we’ll see you next time on the work at home rockstar podcast.