Rocking Authentic Marketing, Partnerships, and Persistence with Joel Keith

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home and Rockstar podcast. Excited for today’s guest. We are talking to the CEO of a SP, and what he does is he installs marketing systems for small and medium sized businesses. So I’m excited to be rocking up today with Joel Keith. Hey, Joel, you ready to rock?

Joel Keith: let’s rock.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. We always start off with a good note. Tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by.

Joel Keith: Uh, well, it would probably be, uh, me actually moving over to a SP. Um, I had a marketing agency that I had started with another partner about, probably five or six years ago now. Um, we did pretty well scaled, pretty, uh, pretty good within the first two years. Um, I. I was working a full-time job, uh, as a broadcast production, uh, technician.

Uh, so working a lot of, uh, studio broadcast productions, live events. Had a really great job. A lot of really, really cool things we were able to do. Um, but I just found so much more passion and fulfillment in doing video and content creation, photo creation, [00:01:00] branding and marketing. Uh, that agency was growing well, got connected with another agency and had the opportunity to get acquired by a SP and step out on my own.

Um, so that would be. Kind of my success story, I guess, is it allowed me to leave my nine to five even though I loved my job. Um, I enjoy what I do now a lot more.

Tim Melanson: And that’s important, right? You gotta love what you do.

Joel Keith: Right.

Tim Melanson: Right on. So now not everything is, you know, sunshine and roses. Sometimes things don’t go as planned on, on journeys. And I’m wondering, you know, is there something that you could share with us, a mistake or a bad note that you hit?

Joel Keith: Um, specifically in business? Yeah. I mean, when, after the merger, um, we hit a rough patch, uh, not long after. So there was this kind of looming fear of like, did I make a mistake leaving a good job with. Really, really good health benefits. I’ve got, you know, two kids and a wife and I got people that I gotta [00:02:00] provide for.

Um, you know, you got a mortgage, you got bills, you got card payments and things. And I had already taken a pay cut. You know, stepping out on my own, uh, and kind of losing benefits as well. So it’s like, man, did I, did I make a mistake here? You know, is this company gonna make it? And, and all this stuff. But, um, you know, sticking through it, uh, really working with a great team of people.

Uh, at a SP we were able to pull through, and now, you know, a company’s doing way better than we ever have before.

Tim Melanson: Wow. And it’s interesting. I mean, I love that story because I mean, I think there’s probably a lot of people that would be sitting in a situation maybe similar to that, where maybe they’re okay with their job and if they hate the job then they should leave. But if they’re okay with their job and you know, things are okay, but they’re thinking this thing would be better.

They’re worried that, you know, they’re gonna have to take a pay cut or that it’s gonna like set them back a little bit or they might make a mistake. You know, that’s always a, a worry, and that might keep people in a position way longer than they should be. [00:03:00] But I’m wondering, like, did you think that, you know, like how did you justify taking a pay cut, for example, to go to do something different?

Joel Keith: That’s a great question. Um, so at the time, my wife was a social worker, um, and she had just gotten, uh, a new job and she was doing well for herself. So we were afforded the ability financially to be able to take that cut, um, and for me to step out. So. I would say is definitely one of those things, like you have a, if you have a partner, they obviously need to be very supportive, uh, of your decision.

Um, but making that decision together, uh, for what’s best for the family unit. Um, you know, if you’re. If you’re not married, you don’t have a partner or whatever, and you’re just by yourself, like, just, dude, just leave the job. Like you make the mistake. You know, even if it is a mistake, go make the mistake.

Like you, you’ve got very little to lose. You know, you’re not worried about providing for other people. If it’s just you go step out and go do it. Like, you’ll be way better off for it because if it doesn’t work, you can always go [00:04:00] find another job. But if it does work, you’re gonna be in a much better position, uh, just with your own happiness and life and, and kind of how you’re setting yourself up for the future.

Tim Melanson: It’s just so funny that you say that, Joel, because you know, if you’re single, go for it. Make the mistake. If you’ve got a a partner, well then that. Might even help you a little bit more too. As long as they’re supportive, then at least they can kind of have that steady, you know, paycheck while you go out there and try to figure it out.

And I think the, I think probably the. The main, I don’t know if, if you agree, but the main thing is that if you’re happy, if you love what you do, I mean, how can you not be successful? Eventually, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have this huge, why you love doing what you’re doing. You’re, you’re okay with it, with struggling because it’s fun, right?

I mean, maybe not fun, but you know what I mean. It’s, it’s fulfilling. So, you know, you know, you just hear these stories all the time of the people that are like, well, you know, I would, I would’ve loved to have done that. And you end up just not doing it [00:05:00] ’cause oh, well, you know, it was a bit of a risk. Was it though?

I mean, if you really love what you’re doing.

Joel Keith: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with that. Um, I see my father-in-law is a perfect example. Um, very hardworking guy. Uh, you know, he’s. He’s up there in age now, but he still constantly has business ideas and he is like, well, what if we could do this? It’s like the man can’t walk, the man can’t see, but he’s got ideas and he wants to implement them.

Um, but what I’ve, what I’ve learned was a common theme over his life was, there was all these ideas, but very little execution.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Joel Keith: So now there’s at the end of the life, seemingly regret from like, man, I wish I’d gone out and done this, or I could have done this, or we could have done, you know, having these viable business options, right?

But there was no, there was very little action to come from it. And I heard a quote one time and it was something along the lines of, um, the, kinda the pain of sacrifice. Um, if, if you’re, uh, if you’re worried about the pain of sacrifice, wait till you get the [00:06:00] bill, uh, for regret. It’s like, man, I would hate to get to the end of my life and be like, man, I wish I would’ve done all these things and now I physically can’t, or I don’t have the mental acuity to, or I don’t have the time or finances or whatever.

I’d rather make the most, those mistakes when I was a lot younger in life and try things, and maybe one of ’em would be successful and you know, and if not, then at least I can lay my head on my pillow at the end and say, I did my best, you know.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean there are a lot of, um. It’s possible that you might fail, though. I mean, I think that that’s what, what the, what the key is here is that, yeah, it might not work, right, but what happens if it doesn’t work? You, you dust yourself off and you go do something else, right? Like, why couldn’t you just go back to the job that you hated in the first place?

Joel Keith: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: Like, you know, okay, so you, you lost a little bit of time and now in the end, like you say, you won’t have that regret anymore. Now it’s like. I tried. It didn’t work. [00:07:00] You, you don’t have that thing in your head going like, what if, what if I had done it right? You

Joel Keith: Yep. Yeah, I had, I had two, uh, photography companies with my wife before our third one actually, like really took off. Um, so. Keep that in mind is that like you may, you may have the same idea that you stick with and you may fail at the same idea multiple times, and then eventually one day it works. And I think honestly it’s, uh, Alex from Moey talks about this a lot too, if there’s any like business gurus that listen to him out there.

But, uh, it’s the amount of time that you put in. I think it’s just being consistent and kind of embracing that suck in business, uh, for long enough and outlasting everyone else, uh, to push through to that spot where you’re able to be successful in it.

Tim Melanson: Agreed. There’s, there’s also market conditions as well. I mean, sometimes you might have this great idea that just doesn’t work right now, but then all of a sudden something changes in the world and all of a sudden it’s like, oh, now’s the time to implement this business idea. And you just might be [00:08:00] ahead of the game and, and, and you’re thinking, right?

Joel Keith: Yep, exactly.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Right on. So let’s talk a little bit about getting fans. I mean, this comes up quite. With social media, and I mean, you can reach so many people, but I mean, there’s a lot of noise out there. So how, how do you like, you know, it’s, it sounds so easy that, oh, just put a social media page together and put out some posts, but that doesn’t usually work.

Usually you get kind of crickets. So how do you make sure that people are actually like consuming your content or they’re reaching out to you and you’re getting business out of that?

Joel Keith: Yeah, so I think there’s two main factors. Um, and I was actually talking with one of my business partners about this recently. Um, I think there’s two things to it. I think one is volume and consistency. Again, going back to consistently putting out content. Regardless of kind of the metrics that you get from it, you know, you okay, you got crickets, right?

You got 10 likes here, you got a comment or here or [00:09:00] there, or you got like a hundred video plays or whatever it is. Um, but if you stay consistent with it, long enough one’s eventually going to hit. Um, and I think the type of content too is, is more and more important. So now you have, you know, again, speaking from a marketing background.

There are a ton of people, companies, agencies, um, influencers that are hiring developers to create essentially AI agents that go and they build the content for them. They use AI to create the video. They use AI to create the images, and they push it out and they don’t ever touch social media or they, or it’s very few and far between when they actually get in there.

They might do some engagement or whatever, but a lot of this stuff is just automated now. Um, and I think that’s, I think that the, the. The type of content you put out that’s more meaningful, that is more, uh, human based. This is why I think podcasts are, are doing so well right now and podcast style content is because it acts people like you and me getting on having a conversation.

Um, and [00:10:00] obviously the, you know, the, um, the more, you know, divisive the content could be, the more you know, friction that’s in the conversation, whatever, you’re gonna get more views. But I think just the human element of it is gonna become a premium. Um, you know, with AI being ingested into every area of business now, um, from the moment you call a business, you’re talking to, you know, an AI.

Voice sales person on the other end of the line, all the way to automated emails and follow ups and review requests and all of that stuff, when actually dealing with a human being that I think is gonna become kind of like a premium experience and it’s gonna come at a premium price. People that are putting out content like that, that have this human element are gonna do better.

But I’ll give you an example. Um, I was actually looking just this morning, so I’ve got a client of mine who’s a home inspector up in Washington state. Um, and. We post, uh, he records a, a massive amount of videos on the stuff he sees from his home [00:11:00] inspections. We post six days a week for him, uh, on TikTok.

So across, you know, over the course of a year, it’s 340 something posts that he does, uh, for the past six months, even with over 40,000 followers for the past, probably four to six months, most of his videos get between two and 500 plays. Which is not a lot based on how many, uh, followers he has. But I looked yesterday, one hit, and within 24 hours, had 25,000 views, had 300 comments, um, had like 700 likes.

So it’s popping off and it’s just got, and it’s, that’s happened over the course of the past year and a half working with him, um, where. One just hits and, and then all of a sudden you’re back in the game and now all your other videos are starting to go back up. And we’ve worked with him since he was at 300 followers on TikTok, and now he has, I think, almost 45,000.

You know, it is just, um, it’s just putting in the time, do the volume, put out as [00:12:00] much as possible and make it impossible for you to fail.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Yeah. That consistency is, is huge. Right. And I mean, when you think about it, if, if you look at the competition, how many of them are doing are being that, you know, persistent

Joel Keith: Exactly.

Tim Melanson: it, it’s hard. If it wasn’t hard, then everybody’d be doing it, right? Yeah,

Joel Keith: Right. Yeah. Everybody was be successful if it wasn’t difficult.

Tim Melanson: yeah, exactly. Now, how do you keep on coming up with new content then?

Joel Keith: Um, so depending on the client. Um, so most of the clients that we have, uh, our agency is specific, uh, to law firms and home service professionals. So home inspectors, plumbers, electricians, HVAC companies, things like that. Um. The content type between them, uh, can range very drastically though. Uh, for example, like, you know, home inspector, the more crazy stuff that he finds doing home inspections, uh, the better, you know, the virality of [00:13:00] the video.

So usually that stuff he can come up with pretty easily because it’s just kind of like a discovery, oh, this is crazy. These beams or these joists aren’t even connected to the roof. How is their support? Let me take a video and explain as to why this is a big deal. Um, but the common theme between all of them is.

What value are you adding to the person watching it? Especially in home service businesses? That’s a really big thing. The educational aspect of that is what creates people. It creates the desire for people to keep coming back and watching your content. What are they gonna learn when they watch your content?

What is now something that they can look for? Um, you know, when it comes to things like, you know, for example, hvac, you know, your AC unit goes out in the dead of summer. You know, that’s kind of like an emergency service. You need someone to come out, but you also know this is an emergency service. I need someone out here asap.

Because it’s 90 degrees and I got kids and pets or whatever, they’re gonna charge a premium for it. How do I know I’m not getting taken advantage of? How do I know that the part they’re [00:14:00] saying is bad is even a real part in an HVAC unit? Like, am I, you know, am I being scammed? Kind of thing. But adding this educational value, uh, allows us to, or allows my clients to inform their customers and then build a ton of trust and credibility with the clients.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, that’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. Like if, if you’re doing something like, it’s almost like it’s funny or interesting and also education at the same time. So, you know, you get people because I mean, out of all those views, I mean, how many of them are actually gonna be clients? Probably not a whole lot.

Some of them are not even gonna be potentially clients. They don’t even own a house or whatever. However, uh, you know, the fact that it’s something that’s interesting to the average person who is not even gonna be a client. up those views and allows it to be seen by somebody else. Right.

Joel Keith: Yeah, and it’s a brand awareness element, so they may not own a house and they may not have to worry about these things, but it’s interesting to them because it’s [00:15:00] something they don’t know. ’cause they’re not a homeowner. However, their brother, sister, or friend or whatever they own houses. And they’re gonna want to know this.

So whenever something goes wrong and they’re talking about it on the phone, in conversation, be like, Hey, I, I saw this guy, he’s local actually, and he does all these videos and he is really good. You should call him. He seems to be really knowledgeable. So that’s the idea behind it, is that you’re, you’re kind of building this big brand awareness, uh, and then, you know, you get the referrals based off of that content.

So, so just a little bit different marketing approach than just direct lead generation, but it’s still really effective.

Tim Melanson: I love that. Let’s talk a little bit about, a little bit about the band. So the people that you have around you, like, uh, how is your process of finding good people to work with, first of all.

Joel Keith: Yeah. Um, so when you’re, when you’re dealing with, I’ve have three other partners in our business, um, so when you have partners, you have to make sure they’re people that I think you can be friends with, uh, people that you get along with. Um. I don’t think it’s until like really, really far up. Like when you’re really dealing in like private equity and things like that [00:16:00] where you don’t really care who you’re working with.

You just wanna make sure those people know how to make money. And then you make money, you flip the business and then you don’t talk to ’em again. Right. But when you’re building a business with somebody, it’s very different. There has to be a high level of trust in that individual that you’re partnering with.

Um, I’ll say one of our partners, um. We met about a year and a half ago now. Uh, we’ve been working together ever since he bought into the agency. Um, but he’s become a really good friend actually. Uh, one of the things that he did early on was one of our first times meeting, uh, ’cause he used to contract with us for a while.

Um, but he came into town. We got breakfast and we had coffee, and he kept saying like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna meet your family. Can we go to your house? I wanna meet your family, meet your wife and your kids. And I was like, man, why does he keep pushing this? And then eventually he’s like, listen, I know I’m being annoying about this.

And I know I keep asking you, but there’s a reason behind it. And he is like, because I believe when you work in business with someone, you need to have their needs and, and their [00:17:00] wants and desires in business and in life and their goals. That needs to be a part of your goals. And the same thing, your goals need to be a part of their goals.

And if I meet your family, it helps me have a deeper connection with who I am fighting for. And I was like, man, that, that like really, really hit me. Um, and that has been kind of the filter I use for working with anyone is I wanna know your family, I wanna know you. I wanna know what your goals are and how can I make that a part of my goals to get us all there?

A rising tide raises all ships, right? Um, but I think that if you can have that perspective and you can have that level of trust in somebody that you’re building a business with, that’s really, really important.

Tim Melanson: I agree. Yeah. And that is, that’s brilliant advice really, because I mean, when you, when you hear about people who have failed in partnerships, it is almost always just a, a, a lack of common vision. Right? Someone’s going this way, someone’s going this way. You get into a fight, you know? Now what? Right. But if you, [00:18:00] the, the more you know that person or the closer you are to understanding what their why is, then the less likely it is that you’re going to be actually, the quicker you’re gonna realize you’re not in the same path, I guess. Right. Uh, right. I mean, uh, you know, in one, in one way, hopefully those wise like align, but I mean, hey, people change things, change priorities, change. Things happen in people’s lives, and if you know what’s happening in their life, then you’re more likely to say, okay, something’s going on in my partner’s life.

They’re going in this direction. Uh, okay, we need to talk about this. Right?

Joel Keith: Yep. Exactly. And it’s funny too ’cause I, uh, I got advice early on, you know, to never, um, go into a business partnership with your friends, uh, because of like, you know, if something does happen they don’t fulfill, then it like ruins your friendship. And I thought that was really good advice for a long time.

Then I realized people that give that advice have shitty friends. Sorry, I don’t know if we’re allowed to swear on the podcast. Sorry. [00:19:00] Um, but it’s your, the quality of friend is going to determine how, the quality of your business partner, in my opinion. So to me, I only want to do business with my friends.

I only wanna do business with people that I know because I know their work ethic. Again, I know their family. I know how, how much they want it, how does this play into their life goals, and how aggressive are they being, getting to those goals? And that’s gonna determine who I want as a partner.

Tim Melanson: It’s really. Enlightening information really when it comes to it. If you’re looking at your friends and you’re thinking, I wouldn’t go to business, into business with any of these friends, well then, you know, isn’t it? What is it? You’re the, some of the, the average of the five people you spend the most time with, that’s your friends and you don’t want to go into business with them. Maybe, maybe you get the wrong friends. Right. You know, I would love to be in a situation where you look at your friends, you go, I would love for any of these friends to be in business with me. Right. That’s, that’s the kind of friendships you want, [00:20:00] right?

Joel Keith: Yeah. I mean you, uh, I know everybody’s got kind of like their group text of friends and I’ve, I’ve got two guys that I’ve known for, you know, over 15 years. One of ’em has been my best friend for over 20 years. Um, and I’m constantly in the group text with them. They both, you know, they both have really good jobs working for other companies.

One’s a, um, private, uh, pilot. Another one works for, um, a really good roofing company in Jacksonville, Florida. And they both do extremely well for themselves. Um, but I know both of them are. I really want my own thing. Um, you know, my buddy who’s a pilot, like he just had a, a kid a couple years ago and he is, you know, gone flying for two weeks at a time every single month.

And he’s just like, man, I missed my kid. You know? So I’m constantly like, dude, when are we starting a business? When are we starting business? Like you both are killers. Like, let’s start a business. Let’s do something together. Imagine three guys who are complete like the, the tightest of best friends. We all know each other’s family and have known them intimately.

We’ve all been, you know, in each other’s weddings or at each other’s weddings. Like, you know, we [00:21:00] know each other’s family, uh, in depth. Like, why wouldn’t we be in business with one another? Why wouldn’t we all try to figure out how we can make, you know, achieve the lifestyle we want? Whether that’s making money or, you know, buying a house somewhere, or just being comfortable or having owning my own schedule.

Uh, like you, you gotta go out and do it. You gotta find those friends that you can do that with.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. And I think that the, I, I think that probably the fear would be that, like we just talked about, I mean, priorities change. Maybe there ends up being a situation where one of those friends is going through something and it has to dissolve the business or, or you can’t hold up. You know, some certain end of the bargain or whatever it happens to be.

And I can get that, I can understand that that would be tough on both the friendship and the business. However, you know, I think about it if that were to happen to me and, you know, if, if one of my buddies was going through something I would wanna help, I I would understand that. You know, I, I, I [00:22:00] would think that I, well, I know him, I know his family, I know he’s a good person.

I know all that stuff. So if something’s going on, I would want to try to figure out. If he needs to leave, he needs to leave. Like I can’t imagine that really hurting my friendship with him, knowing that he’s a good person. Right. You know, however, I get that it would really make the business tough. But you know what, what’s different?

I mean, if, if I didn’t know the guy and that same thing would’ve happened, it still would’ve been difficult. Well with, I mean, things happen and things happen in business, and things happen with people. So I would rather it be with somebody that I care about that I now can help through this scenario and maybe even make things better than somebody that I don’t know.

It blindsides me and now I’m screwed. Right.

Joel Keith: Yeah, and I think that comes down to like how. How you’re running your business. Um, so obviously the, the size of the business, the type of business, all of that, [00:23:00] you know, plays a part of it. But the same thing is if you don’t have the proper systems in place in your business to be able to accommodate for a situation like that, then you’re not in a good place as a business owner.

Like you, you, you don’t have a business. You have a job at that point. You know, and, and that’s okay if that’s what you want, but just understand the risks that come with it. If you want a business that if your partner decides I have to step away, or Hey, my kid is like super sick and like in the hospital and like fighting for his life or whatever, I need to step away and deal with this.

Like, you obviously are gonna be like, oh yeah, that’s like, I feel like that’s like my ne my niece or my nephew, right? Like, that’s family. Go take care of them. I’ll do everything that I can. But if you are able to have a little bit of foresight and build the systems in place. Uh, to where if that does happen, that it’s no skin off the back and be like, Hey, you know what?

You’re still gonna get paid. Go take care of your kid. I’ll run the business. ’cause we have the right systems in place. That’s a much better place to be than just being trying to, uh, you know, flail and, and come up with something at the last minute when those situations [00:24:00] arise.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I mean, that goes into another topic that comes up quite often, which is systems versus. You know, if, if you need a certain person, because that person, I don’t know, they, they, they’ve created all this complicated way of doing business that there’s no one that can jump in there and do that. Then you’re in rough shape.

Right. For that exact reason. Whereas if there’s a, you know, systems in place for everything where, okay, I’m not saying that anybody can do it. I mean, there, there would have to be a certain skill level and you want, you want good people. But, uh, I mean there are very few businesses I would think that would be dependent on a specific person if it was system oriented.

I mean, there would be lots of people that would have similar skills and, and attitude or whatever it is that could jump in and feel that. Right. Is that, am I right on that?

Joel Keith: Yeah, exactly. Um, and it’s funny ’cause when you’re, when you’re a business owner and you have people that you [00:25:00] know are critical to the business, um, you know, one, you should be taking care of them as best as you possibly can. Uh, make sure that they have, that they’re taken care of. There’s loyalty and everything.

I’ll give an example. Um, we have, uh, a couple VAs that we use. Um, a couple video editors and then a personal assistant for me. Um, and they are absolutely critical to our business. Uh, our video editor, um, he was full-time, um. Recently his father passed away and he is like, Hey, I, I need to take some time off.

Um, you know, is there any way that I could, you know, work some extra hours when I get back so that way I can make up for, you know, the time off. Um, ’cause he is a contract. He doesn’t get PTO. Um, but then also, uh, he’s like, I gotta, you know, financially take care of the family for my father’s funeral and all that.

Um. Immediately, I was just like, uh, no, you don’t need to. You’re gonna get paid even though you have the time off. Um, just let me know when you expect to come back. I’ll have some, like I will personally cover [00:26:00] for you while you’re gone. Um. Then also I’m sending you some extra money to help with kinda funeral arrangements.

Uh, we can do that as a business. Like why wouldn’t we do that? Why wouldn’t we take care of our people? Like he was our sole video editor at the time. He brings in a lot of revenue for the company. There’s a, a good profit margin for what he does. Like, why wouldn’t I take care of him in a time where his family needs it?

You know, I’ve never met the guy. He is, worked virtually for me the whole time, but like, I’m going to do that. Uh, but that is the thought though, that like, you know, if someone does have to step away for whatever reason, um, whether it be an act of God or they just decide to leave, like you have to have a system in place.

You have to have backups ready because it’s going to happen. It’s not a, uh, if it’s a when, and being prepared for that is absolutely crucial.

Tim Melanson: Yep. Oh wow. That’s awesome. So I see a nice jam room behind you. This looks like a great, a great looking office here. Tell me about how this came about.

Joel Keith: Yeah. So, um, [00:27:00] I originally, so my wife, uh, works from home. She has a, a flower farm. Um, so she is constantly home. She also homeschools, um, both my girls. So there is four people and a dog in our house at all times, running through, making noise, doing all kinds of things. Um, which is great. I I absolutely love that.

It’s been, it was a huge goal of ours that we could all work from home, do schooling from home, and have a sense of individualism, personal responsibility, and, and not relying on other people. Right. Um, but I had my office upstairs. There was no doors to the office. It was. Kind of like in this old room that used to be a dining room and trying to do podcasts or meetings, uh, with, you know, high value clients and my kids are running through and screaming, or they’re trying to watch TV in the room next to me.

It was very difficult. So. Earlier this year, we, uh, decided to renovate the basement. We built out, um, a room for me specifically, and then that’s kind of where I’m sitting now. Nice. Closed off space. Um, I am in a basement. It [00:28:00] does feel like a dungeon on most days. There’s a small little window up there, so I get a little bit of sunlight here and there.

Uh, but I’m also in Michigan, so during the winter when it’s completely gray outside, it’s just dark in here all the time. So I have to kind of get out and. Go get some sun touch grass. Uh, but for the most part, um, I really enjoy my room in here. Uh, and it’s, it’s been great.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, so now,

Joel Keith: I.

Tim Melanson: like not everybody has the ability to create a nice, you know, good office in their, in their, in their house. Like, especially when they’re first getting started. So, can you tell me, like, what was the reaction from your clients when you did have the dogs and the kids running through? Like, does, was that hurting your business?

Joel Keith: Surprisingly, no. And I think it’s because of what happened with COVID and everybody working from home that it just became such a normal thing. Um, I think it’d be very different if this was 20 18, 20 19, um, and I had that happening. They would be like, man, this just like, you know, seems sloppy. Um, but I think.

With the, with COVID happening and everyone working [00:29:00] from home, uh, a new level of understanding of what the, the integration of life and business is, um, and how messy it can be. Um, made a lot of difference. I mean, I’ve, you know, one of our largest clients, I’d be in meetings with them and my, my kid would just come up and start talking to me like in the middle of my meeting and I’m like, I, I can’t talk to you.

I’m so sorry. And they would just, they would smile and they think it’s the, the cutest thing. Uh, my kids are really cute. So that was helpful. Um, they can thank their mom for that, but, uh, it was, it was really cool to see though that level of understanding from our clients. Um, and sometimes it actually helped a lot, uh, where it kind of, uh, you know, lightened the mood if there was, you know, if we were going through like reports or something that, you know, didn’t look great or whatever it was, uh, it was good, but it was extremely distracting.

Um, so now that I’ve found a spot where I can be in, it’s, it’s been helpful.

Tim Melanson: Should have like queued them. Hey, we’re having a tough conversation, so you, you just stay there. I’ll, I’ll give you the nod when you can come in.[00:30:00]

Joel Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Just come in and snuggle with me in the chair and then like, they can’t yell at me when, you know, you’re sitting there in my lap.

Tim Melanson: I got some bad news for you. Oh, just, oh, sorry. But that,

Joel Keith: Oh, this is my daughter, you know, I, I feed her and take care of her. Look how cute she is.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. But I mean, I, I wanted to go through that because I think there are, like, it’s, it’s important for people to realize that, that that’s not an excuse. You know, if you, like, you’re looking to create a business and you know, you’re, you’re thinking, but I don’t really have enough space.

You have our kids running around. I can’t do that. Well, it doesn’t necessarily hurt you. ’cause like you said earlier, right? People like to do business with people. And you know, when someone’s, you know, family is, is you could see the family, you could see the stuff going on in the background. It actually creates a stronger connection.

Now they can, they can see, okay, well this is the guy I’m doing business with. They, you know, I think it would, not only does it help in partnerships, but it also helps with clients as well. People like to do business with people, so it’s [00:31:00] not really something that could hold you back. You’re right. Extremely distracting.

Probably not as productive right for you, but when it comes to the client’s perspective, it’s not that huge of a, of a, of a bad thing, right?

Joel Keith: No, and I think that, uh, you know, something our agency focuses like very heavily on is relationship building with our clients. Um, we’re not your typical marketing agency where we come, you say like, Hey, I want some ads. And we’re like, great, we’ll run ads for you. Here’s the price. And you know, I’ll check in with you in a month.

A lot of them have my cell phone number. A lot of them text me or call me, uh, leave voicemails if I can’t answer. Um, I’m, you know, texting jokes back and forth between them, you know, gifs and, and things like that. Like there’s, there’s a relationship that’s been built with all of our clients that is like, Hey, we are two real people, real individuals.

Yes, we are. Like, I am a vendor for your company, but. We focus on integrating ourself in a way of like actually helping them build marketing systems, not just doing fulfillment for them, so it’s actually [00:32:00] getting into their business. We offer a fractional CMO, uh, position as well where we actually meet with them every two weeks.

We go through, uh, KPIs regularly. I have logins to their CRM systems. I have logins to their tracking systems, and I’m pulling reports for them and like building, um, you know, full scale reports, you know, return on ad spend reports and delivering that, presenting that to ’em in a meeting as if I am their chief marketing officer.

Um, we have a couple, uh, one or two guys on our team that do that. So that level of integration builds a different type of relationship. Inside of this vendor business relationship that we have, uh, to where it’s not just service provider, but you know, you’re actually invested in the growth of their business.

And I tell my clients that and I was like, look, I make more money when you make more money, so I have a huge incentive to make you more money. So we’re on the same page here. If you make a ton of money from Google Ads and then you’re like, Hey, I want to spend more on Google Ads, great. I make more money if you spend more money in Google [00:33:00] Ads.

But at the same time, I also want you to be very efficient. So not only when you spend more money that you are also trying to lower your cost per your acquisition of new clients, so that way you make more of a profit margin, you make more money, then you’re gonna, you’re like, man, this marketing guy’s great.

I wanna spend more in marketing and then I can make more money. And I, I’m very open with them about that and understanding like. Kind of that dynamic and being real with people and integrating systems. Uh, we have clients that have been with us for years, um, and that’s pretty unusual for most marketing agencies.

Usually marketing agencies is a six to 12 month turnover. Um, I had one of our clients that had seven marketing agencies, uh, in, or sorry, 11 marketing agencies in seven years.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Joel Keith: he’s been with us for almost two years now. It is the longest he’s ever had a relationship with an agency because I have a personal relationship built with him, uh, along with kind of our business relationship.

And that’s kind of helped with the [00:34:00] longevity of, uh, our client. I.

Tim Melanson: Love that. So it’s time for your guest solo. Tell me what’s exciting in your business right now.

Joel Keith: Oh man, we are, we’re really dipping our toes pretty heavily in programming and, uh, AI agents. Um, so taking a lot of what’s going on right now with AI and building systems internally that. If something happens and someone is MIA for whatever reason, uh, we have a backup plan. Um, we have, you know, I, I’ve always seen AI as a tool to enhance, um, your employees not as something to replace them.

Um, so we actually are working on something right now. It’s an internal AI assistant, essentially for our agency to where we can have entry level markers actually come in and have more opportunity because even if they don’t have the background. They’re following the system and they’re able to, uh, have the safety net of their project manager, uh, to ensure that everything that they’re building and doing is correct.

So it’s kinda like an on the job training, [00:35:00] uh, with near, uh, impossible. Percentage of failure because everything has a backup in a system. Stop if something doesn’t look right. Um, both from an AI perspective and the human element. So, um, why know that I can have more entry level positions available, but I can still have the same level, if not a better level of quality of content and relationship for our clients.

Tim Melanson: Wow. I love that. So how do we find out more?

Joel Keith: Um, so the AI agent stuff is something that, uh, we may offer in the future. Uh, for right now it’s just internally, but if you wanna learn more about kind of like our agency and what we do, uh, our website’s, asp branding.com, um, you check it out there, uh, we have. Again, we work mainly with law firms and, uh, home service professionals.

We do work with a lot of local service businesses, small and medium. Um, some e-comm experience as well. So it just kind of depends. If you know you, one of your listeners, you know, is interested in marketing, they can reach out, uh, [00:36:00] at info@aspbranding.com.

Tim Melanson: Okay. And so, uh, is there a specific size of business that would be, uh, better suited for working with you?

Joel Keith: So it just depends on the industry. Uh, home service professionals, we mainly work with those making a, starting around a million dollars in revenue a year. Typically, there are, um, revenue thresholds that we found to be the hindrance of growth. It’s one, three and 5 million are kind of those. Those barriers that home service businesses usually hit and they can’t seem to get passed.

Uh, so we have systems for all three of those, uh, but we’ve worked with startups as well. So it just kind of depends on kind of what your funding looks like and how aggressive you wanna be.

Tim Melanson: So Joel, I got the hardest question of the day. Who’s your favorite rockstar?

Joel Keith: Oh man, that is, that is gonna be a really tough one. Um. I don’t know that I have a favorite, um, but I’ve met quite a few and I would say Alice Cooper, everything they say [00:37:00] about like when you meet him, that he’s the nicest guy is a hundred percent true. Like him and his wife were the, the sweetest people that I think I’ve ever met in my life.

Um, which is not what you expect from the theatrics and stuff from, you know, kind of his shows and, and things like that. But, uh, he is an absolutely beautiful human being.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Do you know what’s funny that I’ve heard that about a lot of the, sort of the harder rock or the harder like metal people, they’re all like teddy bears when you, when you talk to them. And then on the other hand, you know, you, you get sort of like the, the easy listening people that are just total not.

Good people. It’s, it’s interesting how that dynamic works, right? It’s like the heavier stuff is nice people, I don’t know. It’s

Joel Keith: yeah, yeah. Some of ’em are super quirky, too.

Tim Melanson: how did you, how did you meet Alice?

Joel Keith: Uh, so I was the, one of the companies I was working for, um, we actually did a, uh, small acoustic event for Jack White, uh, in the birdie room at the Shinola Hotel in downtown Detroit. Um, [00:38:00] so I got to do, uh, an a one position, uh, which is the main audio engineer for Jack White as well as kind of help the stage hand.

Um, he had some guys come down from, uh, his record company that’s down the street. ’cause I wanted them to do a sound check with the guitar that Jack would actually be using so I can kind of dial it in and get everything ready before the acoustic set. And they brought down like this like entry level fender acoustic electric.

And I was like, there’s no way. This is what Jack White’s using. This is like $150 guitar. We tested it, got it checked in, and then when he came he had some like super old, uh, beat up Martin that he was playing. And the input jack didn’t work half the time. Um, so that was extremely stressful. ’cause I’m like, this is my moment.

Like this is, I, like, I Bass was one of the first instruments I picked up, you know, like Seven Nation Army, like, uh, like the most iconic baseline. Um, so I was like, I can’t screw this up. And he plugged it in and it wasn’t working and I was like, oh my God. Like I was, I was so stressed [00:39:00] out. I had three other people that were helping me, so I ran up and I was like checking the DI box and trying to figure it all out.

And he is like, no, it’s fine. It’s, it’s my acoustic. Like this is just what happens. And I was like. If you’re fine with it, but I also look ridiculous to all these people that are, are very wealthy that are here. Um, so like I’m, you know, I’m running ragged trying to figure this out, but come to find out, this is actually one of his quirks, is he, he likes using, uh, instruments and equipment that don’t always function properly.

He sees it as a challenge to the music, and that’s kind of like his, like, uh. A thing that he really enjoys doing. He likes having a, a challenging time playing the music. So, I don’t know, I didn’t enjoy it personally. Um, but it was one of those things that was kind of like a, uh, just a weird, a weird situation.

But we, we did it. And, uh, once he got started, everything worked fine and the set was great and they were super happy with it. So.

Tim Melanson: Wow. That is such a cool story. Right on. Well, thank you so much for rocking up with me today, Joel. This has been a lot of fun.[00:40:00]

Joel Keith: Yeah, I had a lot of fun too. Thanks for having me on, Tim.

Tim Melanson: All right. On to the listeners. Make sure you subscribe, rate, and comment. We’ll see you next time with the Work at Home Rockstar Podcast. And for more information, you can go to workathomerockstar.com.