Building a Creative Career Through Storytelling and Self-Employment with Aaron Ryan

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. Today I’m excited for the episode. I’m talking to an author, and he is also a voiceover artist. His name is Aaron Ryan. And what he does, I mean, he does a bunch of things, but one of the things that he mentioned is that he helps his fellow authors to avoid scams.

So I’m interested to hear more, more about that a little bit later. But first, are you ready to rock Aaron?

Aaron Ryan: I’m ready to rock Tim. Yeah, let’s do it.

Tim Melanson: So we always start off here in a good note. So tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. Well, you know, I, I, I have to say I’m predominantly an author, and so I have dual storyteller tracks right now. One is author writing books, and the other one is a storyteller as a voiceover artist, and I get to tell other people’s stories. I totally prefer telling my own, but telling other people’s is what is currently paying the bills.

So that’s the one

that we, that we have to highlight.

Tim Melanson: music, right?

Aaron Ryan: It really is. Yeah, it’s a cover song. I, uh, I love, um, being an author, [00:01:00] but voiceovers man, they used to be an exceptionally lucrative career. And, uh, I changed to voiceovers. I had been doing them since 93 informally, but I pursued them formally in, I think it was the fall of 2016.

And, uh, it was a massive change from what I used to do, which was wedding videography, which is Latin for eternal torment. Um, and I, I just, I was so glad to be able to abandon that, but, uh, voiceovers became a real artistic and lucrative career pursuit that I’ve just loved. Unfortunately, it’s on the decline, uh, because of things like AI and,

you know, low balling clients and the sag after strike and whatever. But it’s still, uh, an immensely fun pursuit. So.

Tim Melanson: Okay. Yeah. Uh, voiceovers would be tough now. Yeah. Because there are lots of tools that will just clone your voice and boom. Now, now that’s done. Right. bad.

Aaron Ryan: And it’s sad but true.

Tim Melanson: So along that path [00:02:00] though, I mean, not everything goes as planned. And you mean you’ve been self-employed for a long time now. I’m wondering is there some sort of bad note that you can share with us that we can learn from?

Aaron Ryan: A bad note. Well, um. Gosh, I, I remember when I first started out in self-employment, that would’ve been 2007, and I, I wanted it so bad I could feel it in my teeth. I mean, I dreamt about it when I was, you know, sleeping air quotes. Um, and there everything went wrong. Everything that could go wrong went wrong.

It was basically Murphy’s Law of Self-employment. So I, I got into video production, video editing, and the computer malfunctioned. It didn’t have enough memory. The chip didn’t work, not enough. You know, not fast enough, hard drives, whatever. And I almost gave up. And a client that I had done some graphic design for said, uh, shared a quote, I think it’s by Confucius, if I remember. And they said, the temptation to quit is always greatest just before your greatest success. That absolutely [00:03:00] rocked my world. Because I felt like I was right here. I was really close and I just needed to push a, a little further and get over that hump. I’m so glad I did. Uh, I love self-employment. Nobody can take it away from me.

I rise and fall on my own merits. Um, I run, run up things, you know, at the flag pole and I get to salute them. Um, it is. It’s the single greatest thing that I’ve ever experienced next to marriage and, uh, and kids. Um, I’m just, I’m so grateful that I get to do what I get to do in my office here every single day.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Yeah, I, I had a similar experience, became self-employed, you know, and it was, it was. Good and then not good, and then, and then thought I was gonna quit and then ended up having this crazy breakthrough. Like, it’s, it, it is interesting how that works out and I’ve, I’ve talked to other, uh, self-employed people that have been doing it for a long time, and it seems like most of us kind of come to that point, right?

Like, because, uh, I mean, everything [00:04:00] isn’t awesome all the time, especially since we’re not really. Taught or, or programmed

on how to work for yourself. Like you’re, you’re programmed to work for somebody else. Right? So it’s, it’s, it’s a very different mindset, right.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, I was given some wonderful advice, uh, by, uh, in the voiceover community. There’s a, there’s a woman who is now an entrepreneur. She used to be a casting agent, but she shared this quote with me that I ended up turning into a plaque. It was so, uh, mind warping, just, you know, perspective altering. And she said, someone’s endorsement of you, or lack thereof, has very little to do with your trajectory.

And I had to stop and say. What, what was that? Say that again.

And she shared it again, but it was like, you know, I, I’ve dealt with the negative wedding videography clients that whittle down your price and then want you to still deliver this much, and then you don’t, and they go straight to Yelp, you know, and, and leave you a bad review. I’ve had the people who just don’t get the book and they’re not even sci-fi fans, so why would [00:05:00] they. they. don’t want to, so they leave a negative review. I’ve had clients that said, you know, I couldn’t repair their, uh, their old, uh, you know, rusty videotape and transfer it. So they leave a negative review and it’s like, man, you know, people are just really out for blood in the, on the client side of things.

Sometimes you have to let all that stuff roll off your back, and that’s something that you just learn intuitively as you go through the process. I’ve dealt with your kind before. You know, chalk it up to, to, uh, sour grapes or whatever, and then move on.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s an interesting phenomenon that, uh, I, I’ve noticed as well is that the people that tend to try to, you know, get more for less, like cut the price down and all that stuff, and those, those really like low balling clients, they do end up being the worst.

Aaron Ryan: Yes.

Tim Melanson: it, and it is, it is fascinating to me because, you know, on the other end, the clients [00:06:00] that like, don’t even bark at your price and even offer to pay you more, right.

They are, They’re they’re, easy. Yeah. It, it

just, it blows my mind that like, raising your price can. Work in so many different ways and, and it,

it’s exactly opposite of what you would think, right? Not knowing anything about this. Right. You’d think I can’t raise my price’s gonna be available, afford it. I have people arguing about, about my price Right now, raising my price is gonna be worse.

Right?

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, well, it’s kinda like perspective equals reality for so many people. And uh, you know, app Apple gets a bad rap for just being overpriced,

but Steve Jobs was right. They just work. The products just work. And I, um, I did the same thing where I was raising my price and well, you know, you’re $500 higher, or you’re a thousand dollars higher than the next guy. Well, perhaps you should go to the next guy then.

Um, it really is no, no skin off my back or skin off my nose, or whatever the expression is. I you raise your price because there’s a perceived [00:07:00] value in your services. If you are low balling and people are gonna go, why are you 300? And they are all a thousand.

Um, you gotta be, you get what you pay for. And so, um, I, I’ve done the same thing and, and you’re absolutely right. The people that whittle down your prices and perceive the value of what you’re offering them as little are gonna be the most work the hardest to work with. And they’re just gonna be a pain happens every time.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, I, I, I guess the other big benefit of having your prices nice and high is that, is that you get lots of margin to be able to do like the best work you can do. Right. It’s

not like, uh, you know, ’cause I, I do know, I mean, I, I kind of get it. I mean, I imagine that you’ve, you’ve priced something and all of a sudden this client, you know, it’s just not.

I, I mean, maybe it’s not even them, maybe it’s just you, you’re just like, ah, I don’t like what I’m doing Exactly. I, you know, I would love to be able to change this, but you’re out of hours. Like, I mean, you’ve already lost money on this, so are you gonna do it? On the other hand, if you’ve [00:08:00] charged a, a really good amount and you’re thinking, you know what, I’m gonna give this another go because I really want to do something good and I’ve got, I’ve got the time and the money to do it.

Like, you’re

gonna be able to deliver a much better product to the end client because you’ve got so much margin in it, right.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, totally. It’s you’re building into the margin is the correct, is the correct word. You’re building margin into it so that you can insulate yourself against, uh, going in the red. However, there’s other factors at play too, and just you have a goodwill aspect that you’re constantly trying to put

into every project that you do, and so you want to go above and beyond because that’s just.

Your nature, you wanna please your clients. You’re trying to earn a positive review, you know, and, and reviews speak, uh, louder than words. Um, it’s, you can’t win with everybody. But overall, there’s kind of this net effect of, of an equilibrium as you continue to just do good work and then the work speaks for itself. So, um, it does take a, it does take [00:09:00] a while to kind of reach that equilibrium, though. I noticed

It took me a few years to get there.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I, I like the word you used with the goodwill because I mean, when you think about it on the other side of it, uh, you know the client that is paying you, you know more than you even asked for, they are actually. Putting goodwill towards you. Right? Like, and whereas the one that’s like cutting your, your price down and all that stuff, they’re doing the opposite.

They’re not like putting in that goodwill towards you. So that reci reciprocation is not really there. Like, I mean, if a client is treating you really well, you’re gonna treat them really well and vice versa, right?

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, and I, I think that just goes back to the perceived value is if they see your price at 1600 and that that’s your stated price, and they just, you know, they don’t balk at that, but you’ve got another client that sees the price as it should be to them for their budget.

And so it’s for their budgetary purposes, which are completely, that’s completely outside your control.

Um. They want $900, so that’s what they want to pay, but then they [00:10:00] still will expect that 1600 because it is perception equals reality. The people who are like, yeah, 1600, cool. No problem. Here’s a check, and then they just back off and let you work your wonders and you’re, you’re Scotty to Captain Kirk in the enterprise.

You’re going, you know, working miracles right and left for them because they perceive that value. You hardly even have to do the work. They already perceive the value.

Tim Melanson: Wow. You know, that reminds me of, uh, early on in my, in my journey, I had some, some sales trainers and one of them said that. The client’s objection is a reflection of your own objection. And I thought that was interesting to think about. Like, I mean, if a client is like, oh, you know, I, I, I don’t, maybe they’re like, oh, I don’t wanna buy this online.

I don’t wanna put my credit card in online, or something like that. Right. Well, the, they would al always ask, well, do you use credit cards online? And they’d say. You are like, oh, interesting. So the way that you think about things, the way that you think about the value of what you’re [00:11:00] offering is gonna be what they’re gonna argue as well.

And oftentimes you do see that playing out, right? I mean, if you’re willing, like you just said, to go lower on your price, well, they’re gonna take advantage of you, but if you just don’t go lower, if you’re like, no, no, no, this is what it’s worth, then, you know, if they don’t want it, then they’re gonna go somewhere else.

But they’re, they’re gonna, if they do want it, then they’ll pay it, right.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And a recent example of that, I, I have a really old laptop. I mean, I’m a PC guy by trade. That is my primary, uh, daily driver is a pc. But we love our MAC stuff at home. We love our Apple, uh, phone, iPhones and watches and iPads and all that, and Apple tv. But. I have an old Microsoft Surface laptop, which is time that detaches, so it becomes a tablet.

And boy, when I, when I bought that, it was close to three grand. Now somebody, you know, I’ve got it down to like $800 on Craigslist and it’s just, it’s not selling, it’s still a powerhouse, which blows me away that it’s not selling. But, uh, but someone said, you know, you’re never [00:12:00] gonna get 800 for this. Uh, I see a listing right here for the same exact model for 600, and I’m gonna go. My, my response, just default response is, well go ahead and buy the $600 one. I mean, that, that’s the value that you’ve placed on it. If $200 is, and there is a difference in the tech specs between the one you’re seeing and the one that I’m, that I have always is, uh, but they don’t see that value, that the value that they placed on it is projected purely from what’s currently in their wallet.

And there’s nothing you can do about that.

Tim Melanson: Oh man. So good. So let’s talk a little bit about getting, getting fans then. So how do you, and I mean, hey, the world has changed a lot in the last 20 years, uh, but how do you, yeah, well, hey, way back 20 years ago, what did you have to do to get a client to, to get someone to, to watch her, you had to. Take out an ad somewhere.

Probably nowadays, I mean, social media is everywhere, but, uh, I think that the, the other side of that is that the audience is there, but they’re not [00:13:00] necessarily fans of you. And how, how do you, how do you make them a fan?

Aaron Ryan: Well, I think, um, one of the ways that you develop fandom, I think, and it’s such a weird word because I’m a fairly humble guy, and, and you look at the word fan and I just picture these adoring throngs of people that don’t care what you do, don’t care what you say, they just love the product that you put out.

And, and it’s almost borderline worship,

really kind of just creepy like, um. But the way that you, I think start that fandom is you work for me at least. Uh, what’s worked is you, you work, uh, or you put out good information and valuable consult and counsel and advice to your contemporaries, to your colleagues,

because no one’s gonna help a fellow author. Better than a fellow author. So I’m offering things of value to authors, like, you know, look, look out for these scams. Uh, here’s some good advice on choosing a traditional publisher or being indie self published. Uh, you know, do you wanna choose [00:14:00] Ingram Spark or do you wanna publish through KDP? Uh, do you want to use Barnes and Noble Press?

Do you publish? Why do you publish exclusive? And there’s all kinds of things. I just released a 20 minute video. Two days ago, I think, uh, or actually it was Monday. ’cause we wouldn’t, we wouldn’t dare publish it on Super Bowl Sunday, like no one would know about it. Uh, but you, you develop this fandom because there are people who will speak for you then in your circles.

Like, yes, I’m an author and I work with great authors like Aaron Ryan, he’s a great guy, and here’s his stuff. Um, on the flip side with. With readers, you’re just, it, you know it, the product really has to speak for you. Yes, I’ve got branding. Yes, I’ve focused on that and, and refined that. But people know Stephen King because of Stephen King’s books, and the books tell you about Stephen King. So. My focus is just simply writing good books, telling people about the books, and trying as hard as I can to get the books in people’s hands through a variety of [00:15:00] means, and I will explore the most, you know, nondescript, unknown, back alleyway of trying to get my book into people’s hands that I can. Because I’m a believer in possibilities and you wanna try all these new, you know, avenues of, of reaching readers, um, it’s certainly not easy. It’s certainly cost. It’s all an investment, but it’s so worth it in the end. If just one person that you happen to reach is an influencer, or one person you happen to reach has a great big circle of people that they’re gonna then tell, you know about this book or you, it’s wonderful.

And then the, the book just, uh, does all the work for you.

Tim Melanson: What I find exciting about this approach is that it’s. It’s dependent mostly on time. It is investing your time rather than necessarily all of your money. And I think that that really kind of does equal the playing field quite a bit. Now it’s not a matter of like, okay, well, you know, I come from a rich family so I can be successful in my business.

Um, you know, [00:16:00] sure, maybe you, you can, but on the other hand, you know, you can come from pretty much nothing. But if you are very good at what you do and very helpful to other people, you can, you can make a go of this, right.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, the work will speak for itself.

Um. This isn’t to say that, you know, someone will start out and, you know, they, maybe they’re a decent writer to begin with. I have certainly improved in my writing career. I can look back at what I originally wrote and went, God, you know, uh, yeah, that was me. Uh, yeah, I wrote that, sorry. Uh, and, and approach it from an apologetic type of perspective. Uh, but it’s a season that I was in at the time.

It was with the knowledge that I had amassed at the time, uh, with the technique and skill and approach that I had amassed at the time. But boy, when you, when you master your craft and you start putting out even better stuff, you’re just going to, you’re just gonna reinforce that fandom, if you will, of people who go, God, yeah, his books are getting better and better and better.

And I’ve got [00:17:00] voracious. Uh, rabid readers who are like, dude, when’s your no next book coming out? Or Why haven’t you written a sequel to this series? Because I love this series of these characters. Uh, it’s, it’s really cool. It’s a really cool thing. And the other thing that I really love about what I do is I get to leave a legacy, uh, a trail of memories and storytelling that will sell for all time. And it just, I, I just love leaving a legacy of storytelling that way.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome. Well, and, and I mean, that does also, like, uh, one of the things about getting good at anything is you gotta be okay with not being good at it first. Right. And, and I mean, I think that that’s a, that’s a real big barrier, especially to adults, right. I think that like, if you start when you’re a kid, like I think that, that, my impression anyway is that that’s why.

People who have been doing something since they were a kid tend to be very, very good at it. And it tends to be that [00:18:00] people that start when they’re an adult and never, never follow through. But that’s because I think as a kid, you’re expected to not be good. You’re a kid, nobody. No. Like, you know, but, but as an adult, imagine you’re in your twenties and you decide to start writing.

I mean, hey, I mean, let me ask you that. Like, do you think someone who starts writing later in life can end up being a bestselling author?

Aaron Ryan: Well, uh, that’s certainly true of me. I, yes, I would say an emphatic yes, because that is my story. Um, I started. I started, you know, my very first story I wrote, if you wanna call it, that was in 1981, a second grade assignment with Mrs. Walker. Hi Mrs. Walker. And that was just, you know, construction paper and free hole punch, college rule paper, uh, crude stick figure drawings.

And seriously, the book was like a, a complete and blatant ripoff of Alan Dean Foster’s novelization of et

uh, I called it the electric boy. There are some parts I seriously stole. Um, so I don’t really, I mean, I counted as my first story that I wrote, but I did not [00:19:00] enter full-time authoring until really 2017. Uh, and by that time I was, uh, I can’t add, no one said there’d be math. I was in my forties.

Um, but. But that was, you know, nonfiction business books as a voiceover artist. Now I’m a full-time author. And uh, the first book in the voiceover series became a bestseller Dissonance. Volume one became a bestseller.

The end volume one became a bestseller. Uh, the Phoenix Experiment became a bestseller. Do they still reside in that number one spot? No, but they did hit it and they are still selling well. Volume one reality of, of dissonance has been adapted for the screen and it’s currently being actively pitched to streaming networks. So boy, if that gets picked up, look for the books to just skyrocket again. And I started later in life, I evolved. You do evolve. From whenever you start, I envy the people that have been writing their whole life because I danced around in a lot of [00:20:00] creative pursuits before I returned. I really envy those people that have been lifelong authors because they just grow and grow and

grow, and they’ve they’ve surpassed me. But you can put the pedal to the metal later in life and, and evolve faster yourself too.

Tim Melanson: So then looking back, uh, you, you, you know, you said that you’re a little bit I guess, about your first book, right? Uh, but at the time that you wrote it, did you, did you know that it was like, like what did you feel about it at that time?

Aaron Ryan: So we’re not talking about the electric boy in seventh, uh, second grade,

Tim Melanson: no. I mean, your first published book. Yeah.

Aaron Ryan: I have grace for that little guy. He was seven. Come

Tim Melanson: Yes, of course.

Aaron Ryan: Uh, or eight, whatever it was. Um, yeah, I think, I think that, um, ultimately I’m not embarrassed is the right word in some sense of the book, but I do reread it. I do go back and revisit it.

I have to,

uh, because at the advice of my screenwriter. Should [00:21:00] this get picked up? Should it get optioned or bought the screenplay? They’re gonna just, they’re gonna know my story inside and out, and I need to know it better than they do.

So I’m still rereading that story. Um, I, I do find parts where I just go, holy cow, that was so well written. And in some respects, there are sections in dissonance. Volume one, reality. My first, you know, return foray into fiction, that trounce. Uh, uh, talisman Nexus, which is my most recently published book. So there are nuggets in here that, you know, are higher and more perfected craft than more recent works and vice versa. Um, it’s kind of a give and take thing, and I’m okay with it.

Overall, embarrassed, eh, maybe at some respects, you know, some senses of it, but overall, I’m, I’m darn proud, uh, of

how it turned out and how it performed.

Tim Melanson: Good. Good. Yeah. ’cause, uh, I know that like, I mean, if we compare it to music, um, I know when I, because I started playing music late in life as well, actually I was in my, my twenties [00:22:00] when I even picked up a guitar for the first time. And, and at the beginning of it, I knew I wasn’t that good, but I thought, but I, but I was able to get through the songs and people seemed to be enjoying it and I was having fun, so I just kept on doing it.

Um, but, but one of the things that you, I, I think when you look back is that if you don’t know any better, sometimes you’ll make choices that someone who knows better wouldn’t have made. Right. Like, you’re not in

that box. Right.

And, and I think that that might be, maybe that’s what you’re talking about.

Maybe some parts of your like, wow, that’s exceptionally well written. ’cause you didn’t know any better at the time. It was just you were writing something that was special at that time. Right.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, it just all comes from inspiration, right? So if you are particularly inspired in chapter four, not so much inspired in chapter three, there will be noticeable. Uh,

strain of, of something that happens. You know, o one chapter might appear somewhat monotony. Does, is this an allegory for life too? Is like,

[00:23:00] you go through seasons of your life where it’s just kind of the grind and the hustle and you know, or the boredom, whatever.

You’re, you’re, you’re just getting a paycheck and then, you know, you jump into self-employment. And I am, I, I love, I’m just gonna share, I’m in an 880 square foot shop that used to be concrete and framing. Um, and I’m gonna, if can I, if I change my background, will you be able to

Tim Melanson: Sure.

Aaron Ryan: Okay, so let me change this really quick. Um, so I, we changed this and all you’re seeing right now is, this is my voiceover, uh, this is my office, and then behind me is my voiceover booth,

and it is top of the line. And then over there. Through this door, right over here is two thirds of the, of the shop, which is, um, exercise and rec and tv, and you know, exercise equipment, blah, blah, blah. Play area for the kids that this, this all came from a dream of souping up this whole place and making it my own. It’s a detached [00:24:00] garage and I love, love, love coming out to what we call Bubby Town Studios. We call it that. ’cause we have two kids who are our Bubbies. They’re these guys right here. And I just, I love coming out here and getting to do my thing and seeing that thing result in dollars in this checkbook,

uh, that then pays our mortgage.

It’s like, it’s such a dream and nobody can take it from me. I love that.

Tim Melanson: Uh, I love that too. I love that too. That’s why I like to, that’s why this podcast exists. I wanna inspire more people to do that because it is, it is special. It is a, a different thing that no one can take it from. Like, that’s the best part is that when I was working in a cubicle, it was just, okay, well I’m, I’m employed for the next two weeks.

I don’t know. I have no control. Over what’s going on. I mean, they could have just decided that, ah, we’re not gonna do business anymore. And off I go. Like, but this is us. Like this is, yes, it’s hard, but you’re so much more [00:25:00] appreciative, I guess, of, of what you’re accomplishing when you know that it’s you that got out of bed and created something from nothing.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, I, I mean, I said it before, I’ll say it again. You rise and fall on your own merits. Uh, you’re not dependent on someone else’s, uh, handout. You know, and not to put a, a negative spin on it, because a paycheck is a paycheck and

it’s a blessing, and it, it pays your bills, but you’re also not fighting for their dream.

And that is the biggest kicker. I you fight for your own dream.

And this is my dream out here. I would, I would hate to lose this. I’d be so. I’d be, you know, despondent to lose this, to see my dream not work out. And we have to, you know, sell this and move. Um, so I fight and I work hard and I do my best and I explore new, uh, entrepreneurial pursuits to, you know, to supplement. Um, but overall the dominating force out here is just the sheer art of creation. And it has been music out here. I’ve produced, uh, several CDs on this very [00:26:00] tower and this very screen, um. It’s voiceovers right now back there. It’s authoring and it’s all marketing for all of them right here, but it’s all creation and I just love it.

Tim Melanson: I love that. That’s so awesome. So tell me a little bit more about your learning journey. Like how, how do you, you know, get your information? Like do you have mentors or coaches or anything like that, or.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, so I mean, I’m a mentee of so many authors who don’t even know who I am, and that’s totally fine, but I study their works and I learn how they write, and I see what they do. I, my mind was blown by, uh, for example, Suzanne Collins Sunrise on the Reaping. I love the Hunger Games, Krilogy, the movies. Love the books, but, uh, she’s always written, first person, present tense. I have traditionally written first person thir, uh, past tense. And so, you know, I walked to the door, um, I said instead, now it’s, I walk to the door, I say,

and it’s. It’s a totally [00:27:00] different, it’s a, you know, huge shifting of gears. But she also incorporated some incredibly beautiful prose and poetry in sunrise on the reaping. I am a poet. I’ve put together a, you know, a book of poetry that has won some laurels. I love what I, what I wrote. I’ve just never incorporated it into my work. So, for the Phoenix Experiment, it was the very first, uh, book that I decided to undertake. First person present tense. And also incorporate some, some poetry. Um, so, you know, I, if I ever met her, I would say, man, you absolutely inspired me. Uh, that’s authoring in voiceovers. I still love to this day and keep in touch with a man who is a wonderful, um, voiceover coach. He is incredibly talented. He’s incredibly, uh, enthusiastic about coaching, and his name is Scott Burns. Established voiceover artist. He’s the voice of, uh, first North American voice of Bowser in Super Mario Brothers, and I knew him on a first name basis. We’d go to lunch together. Wonderful [00:28:00] guy. Uh, and I learned from the best because he’s such a giver in my love Language is giving. So Scott taught me a lot about what kind of equipment I should do, what kind of reads I should, or equipment I should get, what kind of reads I should do, um, you know, red flags to look out for, where to market, uh, what, what demos to produce, what genres to dive into for voiceovers. So. Man, I’ve learned, I’ve learned so much from so many people, but they’re all, they’re incredibly helpful. Um, coaching is indispensable in any industry. Any creative pursuit that you do Coaching is indispensable.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I mean, all the greats have coaches, right? I

mean, that’s the way it works. Right? Do, do you find, have you found it difficult to find someone that wants to help you?

Aaron Ryan: Uh, in voiceovers, no. Uh, because, you know, I was lucky enough to know a, a local colleague who. Many years before I found out that he was in voiceovers, I reached out to him [00:29:00] and we went to school together. So, you know, he remembered me. But, uh, and I said that, you know, in my introductory email to him, do, do you remember me?

And he said, yeah, I remember you talk to Scott Burns. I was like, all he wrote. And I went, oh, okay. Uh, I don’t know Scott Burns. I wrote you, may I talk to you, please? And it was crickets. But he’s not a coach. It’s not his desire to be a coach. And so he knew in his wisdom that Scott Burns loves coaching. And so I was so grateful for that handoff, you know, referral to Scott.

I. That was lucky in voiceovers. In authoring it’s a little bit harder, but I think we have great communities intact on Facebook and the author’s Guild and Reddit that you can easily draw upon so many who have. I mean, I just published my 41st book. Um, I’m certainly a seasoned, prolific writer. I have a lot to offer.

There’s several way beyond me who have, you know, lots to offer on [00:30:00] pros and cons of the industry. Things to look out for, suggested courses of action, blah, blah, blah.

Tim Melanson: Well, I mean, they do say that you learn a lot from teaching too, right? So it, it, it can be

a benefit to you to even be the mentor, right?

Aaron Ryan: absolutely. You learn things even as you go teaching.

You a teacher should be learning, right?

Um, you kind of like, uh, I think Ray Crock from McDonald’s said when you, when you, uh, stop learning, uh, your room temperature or something like that. Um. And you have to continue to learn even as you’re teaching.

’cause otherwise you’re gonna grow stale.

Trends change. The industry changes. Look what’s happened to voiceovers in the past two, three years, even authoring in the past two, three years. And you have to stay fresh, uh, and up to date on those things.

Tim Melanson: Okay. Well let’s get into that then. So it’s time for your guest solo. Tell me what’s exciting in your business.

Aaron Ryan: What’s exciting is every single new project I undertake,

um, I reverse engineer my [00:31:00] books. So I will design the cover first, and that gives me an idea for a story because I’m very visually inspired. So that’s, that’s very bass wards from the way a lot of people approach it. They’ll get an idea for a story, they’ll write the story, and then, okay, now I need a cover to reflect the story.

Well. I keep the cover, you know, right here in front of me, uh, as I’m writing the story because I want to work towards that goal and I want to see my story reflect a great cover. Um, you can certainly go either way, but every story that I write is exciting to me. Every new, every new trilogy that is complete. And I’m approaching that point with the third installment in the Talisman series. That’s so exciting because then it means I’ve got a trilogy. Now, not just one book, not just two, it’s three. You know, it’s a set, and now I can do a box set. I can design that. Now I can do an all in one version. For example, if I can show this, [00:32:00] I have a trilogy set of my V end. Series and it’s got all three volumes in here. It’s beautiful, it’s gorgeous. I have to hold it in front of me, I guess. So there’s that one

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Aaron Ryan: and that. Then what I also did is I did a complete box, uh, you know, all in one hardcover version.

So this is basically all three of those books in one hardcover edition. And then I did an all in one paperback box set,

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s awesome.

Aaron Ryan: I love these different versions that you can end up creating because everybody’s different. That’s why you have like. 20 different iPhones, you know, each year. Um, and that’s exciting to me, is just completing a trilogy. I’m super excited about the screenplay for, uh, dissonance volume one reality being adapted and being pitched to streaming networks. I’m super excited for the screenplay for Forecast and the end, uh, winning entrance into film festivals and, and winning awards. It’s like, [00:33:00] it’s such a great time to be alive and be a writer right now.

Tim Melanson: I, I agree. I agree. Well, I mean, so I, I know we touched on a little bit of the AI type stuff throughout this. How do you see that changing things? And do you, do you see a silver lining to it for, for writers and even voiceover?

Aaron Ryan: Um, no, I don’t see a silver lining at this point. I think, uh, as a voiceover artist and I can see it from dual, dual tracks, you know, as this

dual storyteller, as a voiceover artist, it has nearly, um, it has completely. Eroded our income substantially.

Um, it has, because it’s so easy for things like, you know, speech hello, and Speech Ocean and Revoice or, and all of those different pieces of software that you can spend 49 bucks on for a lifetime membership. Plug in what you want it to say. It spits out the voice. Hey, we don’t need to hire a, a voice actor for, you know, $3,000 for a yearly national TV commercial.

I get the financial draw there, um, but it has purged me. Um, [00:34:00] unwillingly of wonderful, uh, longstanding relationships. Um, I’ve been dropped from rosters because they’re just using AI Now. The video producers I worked with have themselves been dropped because their higher ups said, we’ll just have AI make it. And so we’ve been affected. They’ve been affected. That’s hurt. Um. In authoring, it’s really affected the content and the quality of the content because of quote unquote AI slop and, uh, and people throwing things up into the marketplace that chat GPT has generated. And they, they put their name on it and they didn’t write a thing, and they go to midjourney and develop a cover. And they didn’t design that either, but they call themselves an author and it’s like people usually can detect what is. Is not produced by ai, uh, in, in many senses. So it’s hard for the dilution of the offerings, both in voiceovers and authoring. It’s, it’s hard to see that [00:35:00] dilution. So I don’t see a silver lining yet, and I don’t use AI tools other than, uh, you know, uh, maybe, um. Uh, Microsoft Word tools. I’m a dinosaur. I use Microsoft Word spell check and, and you know, AU and things like that. Um, and then what is the other one that I use? Sorry. There is one that I use called. Uh, Quill bot for if I wanna paraphrase something, uh, that I’m writing. But other than that, I, I write everything right outta here. I don’t use AI to generate any form of any of my narrative because I want it to come from me and be an accurate reflection of my soul,

not a CPU.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I think, um, I think that for voiceovers, yeah, it’s, it’s rough. I, I, I can’t imagine there being a turnaround there. But for authoring, on the other hand, and even for music, ’cause we, I mean, we, we. Come up across it with music quite a bit as well. Right. Uh, I do think that in the [00:36:00] short term for sure, the AI cannot be creative.

It, it is just taking what’s already been done and regurgitating it in, in a way. And, and, and I just, I, I mean, I, I’ve, I’ve read plenty of, of, of AI stuff and you know, the best stuff that you can read by AI and even that I can generate when I use AI is by. Teaching it how to talk like me, which means it, it’s my creative, that’s creativity that’s doing it in the first place.

So it needs like a creative engine in order to do it. And I, and I do. I hope that what’ll end up happening is that there’ll be a little bit of a turmoil and then the real creative, the real actual people that are writing, the real people that are writing real music. We’ll start, we’ll sort of just jump ahead of all that stuff.

And I, I, I do think that that’s what people want. People want to feel something and AI can’t make them feel anything. It’s just regurgitating, right.

So I, I hope.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, and it’s, it, I mean, there’s, there’s so many [00:37:00] moral arguments to be made on either side, and one of the main things that you constantly hear is that it is done without the consent of the original creator.

So you see things like, um, granted, you could go see Alien Romulus and you can see Ian Hol as, um, I forget what his name was, but the, the, the Ash Android. With a different name. And Ian Holm has, was deceased, so he can’t possibly consent to his likeness being put into a new film. His estate did, his family did. Um, and I, you know, there, I suspect there’s a financial incentive

there, but. It’s something that he can no longer consent to. The same thing is true with, uh, authoring and voiceovers. I know a colleague whose voice was stolen from her. She had a client with the, or she had a project with Chinese Institute of Acoustics, and before she knew it, they sold her recordings to TikTok. And

so friends were saying, Hey, Bev, is this you? I mean, this is gross. That what they’re saying is this Sounds like you, Bev was like. [00:38:00] That is me. And she filed a lawsuit. They ended up settling, um, but again without her consent,

Scarlet Johansen, her voice was taken from her and made into an AI voice, and she’s litigating that. Without her consent, I can only shudder and think what of my works are making their way into ai. Software and algorithms in order to be recreated without my consent, and that’s just deeply frustrating.

So I would love to see some legislation.

It’s a wild west right now.

It’s a huge wild West. I’d love to see some legislation that just reigns in this wild west and puts it, put some guardrails around it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that, I mean, this whole AI thing, I believe, I, I, I actually, not even, I, I think it actually is an experiment. I think they’ve said that like, you know, even Chatt PD when it first got put out, they just kind of threw it out there and see what happens. And there are some major harms coming out of it.

And I, I mean, I, I think it’s crazily [00:39:00] irresponsible to, to, to unleash something like that onto the public without having any, but I mean. That’s the way the world works for the most part. They, they unleash something on us and then the laws come afterwards going like, Hey, that’s actually kind of harmful.

Let’s, let’s, let’s pull that back a little bit. But, um, so I think we are, we’re gonna have a little bit of a correction in the next few years, but I, I hope it’s gonna come out good in the end.

Aaron Ryan: I hope so too. And I think, you know, the Super Bowl commercial, the one where they had all of the stars from the, the sitcoms, uh, together, and they were, they, they de aged them.

Um, you know, a, a greater example would be Indiana Jones, Harrison Ford in the latest Indiana Jones movie, and they did a flashback scene with him.

Completely de aged, looks very credible, but you can tell it’s AI

generated. There’s just those little nuances, especially in the ice. Or like six fingers, um, melted face here and there. Uh, but discounting that, you know, there, there is an entertainment value behind it, [00:40:00] which to some extent I’m okay with as long as those people had given their consent again, which is so huge.

Um, if it was done with their consent, they were okay with it, I’m okay with it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So, one last question. Let’s get into the music a little bit. Who’s your favorite rockstar?

Aaron Ryan: I have a few and they, they span a few different genres. I really love, uh, Alana Morissette. I always have, I think she, speaking of evolution, we talked about, she’s absolutely evolved.

Um, I just, I love her song, empathy. It’s one of my favorite songs of her in Praise of the Vulnerable Man. Uh, the early stuff, you know, hand in My Pocket.

I love her. She’s enormously talented. Gavin DeGraw has always been a favorite. Um, fire, his, his, um, roller derby inspired song fire. Such a great tune. I love. Um, uh, I was gonna say five for fighting. Um. Uh, for King and Country Christian band, Christian Rock Band, um, I love their stuff, especially a song [00:41:00] called, uh, fight on Fighter. Um, an amazing tune, a little repetitive, but man, it drives the point home and so good. So those are my three that I’ll usually cite, but I, you’re talking to a guy who grew up. Almost exclusively liking Michael Jackson. Uh, and could dance like him.

I mean,

it was, I don’t quite have the form anymore, but, uh, yeah, those are my top three.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. Yeah. Alanis. Wow. Uh, well she’s Canadian and uh, she actually released something, I dunno if you ever looked at it, but it’s, she re released a song called Too Hot. I don’t know if you, I don’t

Aaron Ryan: Oh yeah, I know

Tim Melanson: find it. Oh yeah, that, that was crazy stuff. Way

back

Aaron Ryan: It was her early, very early stuff.

Tim Melanson: Yeah,

that was before Jagged little Pill.

Yeah. awesome. Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Aaron. This has been a lot of fun.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, my pleasure. Seriously, thanks for having me on. I’m very grateful.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And to the listeners, make sure you go to workathomerockstar.com for more information. We’ll see you next time on the Work At Home Rockstar Podcast.