Inner Work, Outer Success with Jason Moss

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode. We are talking to a business coach with Jason Moss Coaching. Of course, his name is Jason Moss. What he does is he helps entrepreneurs to break through income, plateaus, scale their businesses by shifting their mindset, streamlining operations, and building leverage systems.

But what he told me off of this script earlier is that he helps people with their inner work and, uh, and I’m, so, I’m very excited to be talking about that today ’cause that’s, I think, extremely important, especially when you’re a solopreneur and when you’re running teams. So, I’m excited to be rocking out today with Jason.

Hey Jason, you ready to rock?

Jason Moss: Oh yeah man. Let’s do it. Is that a, is that a Led Zeppelin shirt by the way that you wearing

Tim Melanson: That is a Led Zeppelin shirt.

Jason Moss: I love it man. I actually just bought one of those, ’cause I’m gonna a conference this weekend and it’s, the theme is Rockstar. Very funny that we’re having this conversation ’cause the conference is tomorrow and so I bought a Led Zeppelin shirt.

I bought a Rolling Stone shirt, which is actually my [00:01:00] first concert that I ever went to, to with my dad when I was like, I know I was like 12 or 13 years old. It was a Rolling Stone Metallica show, split show. And so, uh, so I’m excited for those to come in and I love that you’re wearing that shirt. It’s super cool.

Tim Melanson: Nice. Yeah, I’ve got a few LED Zeppelin shirts. They, they, they make great shirts, but, uh, but yeah, I’ve got a ton of band shirts that’s, it’s, come on. It’s my podcast. Right. That’s a business expense. That’s

Jason Moss: right. Exactly. Write it off.

Tim Melanson: So we always start off here in a good note. Tell me a story of success that we can be inspired by in your business.

Jason Moss: Man. I mean, there’s been, there’s been so, so much up and down on my journey and I would say the past year for me has been a complete death and rebirth in the business. About, uh, 18 months ago, I made the decision to shut down, at the time, a very profitable, super successful business. We were doing over half a million year in sales.

I was at this retreat in Napa with a mentor of mine, and he [00:02:00] looked me in the eyes and he said, Jason. If you never had to worry about money, is this the business that you would be running? And it was one of those questions that just hit me in the heart. ’cause I realized this wasn’t it. And maybe you’re listener too.

If you’re listening to this, maybe you’re at a job right now or somewhere and you’re like, ah, this isn’t it. This is not the life that I want. And those moments, those choice points, it’s like when we see something we can’t unsee. And so coming out of that experience, I made the decision to basically reboot this business that on paper.

Like everything was working. It looked great, but it was no longer feeding my soul. And for about nine months after that period, I felt like I was walking in the dark. ’cause it was just, I mean, shut the, basically shut the business down, like our revenue dropped by like 80%. I was also coinciding with me moving into this beautiful new home here with my partner Kimberly in Boulder.

So we had this, our lifestyle expenses went way up and my business went way down. [00:03:00] And I was just, for about nine months, I was really walking in faith and really listening to that inner calling and that inner pull, and it didn’t shift overnight. But coming out the other side of that and seeing what’s happening in the business right now, particularly the last few months, our business has just.

Like something has just shifted and expanded and, and things are, I mean, I’ve never seen so much growth in our business. The clients who are coming in are just these beautiful people. I feel so alive and so excited about what, what I’m doing and the, the new iteration of what’s emerging through me. It’s, it’s just that like if I look back through that period of time, ’cause there were so many times I was like, man, I just feel like I’m like leaping into the deep end and just like, no safety net, no parachute is life gonna catch me.

I feel like in my heart this is the right thing to do, and yet I have no evidence to be able to support this. I’m so grateful I made that transition and I’m so grateful because of what’s now here and what I get to experience and it’s so much [00:04:00] greater than I could have ever possibly planned or imagined.

So that’s a big success for me and I’m just so excited for what’s up ahead. I’m excited to have this conversation with you today and explore that and dive into some helpful things that hopefully will help, you know, the folks who are listening here. But, uh, definitely something that comes to mind for me.

Tim Melanson: Wow, that’s such a great story. And it is, uh, it is scary, isn’t it, to, to take those leaps, but on the other hand, um. When you follow your, your, your heart, I mean, you know, it seems like even on paper, it, it, it does kind of make sense that if you’re, if you’re lit, lit up by whatever it is you’re doing, that you’re gonna do a better job, right.

Um, yeah. You know, so, so I mean, I, I know I, I mean, I get the impression that we’re both pretty spiritual people, so I think there’s a lot more going on in the universe than, than just what’s on paper. But even on paper that, uh, that is something that is scary [00:05:00] to do, but when you do align with something, it tends to go better, right?

Jason Moss: Yeah, of course. I mean, the universe supports expansion. My experience is there’s, there’s, I, I experience it like there’s this river in life and I feel this, and many people have had this experience. Sometimes it’s like you’re in flow. Let’s say you’re like playing a show or I know I experience it sometimes when I sit down, I play piano and I’m just like, lost.

And there’s just this sense that there’s this thing that’s happening through me, right? That like, I’m not so much playing the piano as, as so much as like life is playing me. Mm-hmm. And so my experience in life is like, there’s this river and there’s this thing that’s always wanting to move through us.

We can either be on the banks, which is where most people are, which is like, oh, I kind of want to jump in the river, but I feel afraid. Which is, you know, I mean, it’s human, right? Like I have that too. And then there’s like the, the experience of being in the river and kind of like letting go and surrendering into life.

And there’s some magical things that happen when you’re no [00:06:00] longer trying to like grip and no trying to, no longer trying to hang on and no longer trying to be the one who’s like making things happen. But the realization that, you know, life is for us, it’s like that thing that you have inside you, the pole that whether it’s leave the job or start your own business or whatever it is, like whoever’s listening to this like that, that’s that like the universe backs that because that move towards expansion is like what life is trying to do through you.

Yeah. And it takes faith and it takes trust and it takes a leap to be able to really like lean into that. Encourage, but. I’ve been working with entrepreneurs for years at this point. I’ve, I’ve walked with over a thousand entrepreneurs, you know, through my various different programs, and I’ve, and I’ve seen that moment again and again and again and again in all sorts of different ways.

It happens at all different levels. It’s, you know, from the person who’s working a nine to five who has to take that like brave, scary leap to like launch their own thing to the person who’s making seven figures, but has a business that is no longer aligned with their soul. [00:07:00] And knows that they want to do something different, but is so afraid to let go of the thing that’s working.

And everybody in between. And what I’ve seen again and again on the other side of that is there’s always something more.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. More

Jason Moss: joy, more fulfillment, more freedom, more income, more abundance. ’cause as you lean into the river, as you’re no longer fighting it, life moves through you in a really beautiful way and your life expands

Tim Melanson: well.

I think. So if we use music as an analogy, um. Well, most musicians that I know, first of all would do it for free. Right? They play music because they love it. Right? And, and actually this is a big problem that we have in the music community is that everybody’s undercut everybody because you know, the people that are doing it for a full-time thing, you know, there, there’s always someone that’ll go out there and play for free, right?

Because they love doing it. I think that, I think though that we have been either whatever conditioned, I don’t know what it is. That work is supposed to be hard and you know, maybe we [00:08:00] don’t, you know, I mean, I, I can see what you’re saying when, oh, I’m playing a song and I’m getting into the flow and all that stuff.

But I don’t know if everybody could really say that about their job. And I think that most people think that that’s okay. That’s that what it’s supposed to be. Right. I go to work and I struggle through it, and then I come home and I play some tunes and I love my life. But what you’re saying now is that it’s possible to feel that way in a business, isn’t it?

Jason Moss: Absolutely. I mean, that is my experience of life today, and that is the experience that I have of running a business. It feels like this beautiful flow. Not to say that every moment is effortless, but more and more as I do the work on myself. Uh, and, and really what it is, is about, to your point, it’s like unwiring all these stories and beliefs that we have about what work needs to be.

Mm-hmm. For example, for so long I had this idea that I needed to structure my life in a very rigid, like, time blocked calendar. Because, you know, all the productivity books I read were like, you [00:09:00] need to map out what you’re gonna do for the week and figure out every single hour of your day. And most people come from this like corporate world where it’s like we work nine to five and you know, we have work hours and everything’s like very rigid and and boxed in.

And so I did that for a long time because I just thought that was the way it was. But then I started hanging out with people who were approaching business very differently and they seemed like they had a lot more energy than me. And their way of moving through their business was actually I just listen to my body and I work when I wanna work and I don’t when I don’t.

And sometimes that means I wake up on a Saturday and I work 12 hours. ’cause I’m so excited to just like dive into what I’m about to dive into. And sometimes it means on a Tuesday I wake up and I’m exhausted and I sleep. So I started doing that and I realized I had this whole model of, of what I needed to do in my business.

And I get that, you know, if you’re working a nine to five for someone else, this is more challenging, right? Because you’re kind of within the system of somebody else’s construction and you kind of need to play by those rules. [00:10:00] But for a lot of people who feel like that’s a prison, sometimes they start their own business and then they recreate the prison.

’cause it’s like we got the same model and we just move it over to a business. And so this is just a great example of like one thing that is like an unquestioned story or a belief, and you look back through history and what’s fascinating is like we actually have only had work hours for the last, I don’t know, 150 years.

It was like the industrial revolution was the first time that we actually had working hours. Before that you were a merchant, you had like a store downstairs and you would just go downstairs when there were customers, and then you’d go upstairs when there weren’t. And so, so many of these things, so many of these ideas and beliefs that we have about what work needs to be including, to your point, the belief that work needs to be a struggle.

It’s like we exist in that box and we don’t think that there’s any other way, and so we just continue to create that in our life until there’s that moment of [00:11:00] like, Hmm, maybe there’s a possibility that this could be different. You see someone else that’s living a very different life and you’re like, wow, that looks really good.

And maybe part of you hears it and you’re like, screw this guy. You know, some of your listeners are probably listening to this right now, and your first reaction is like, ah, this guy’s full of crap. You know, like he’s just talking up a pipe dream. ’cause that’s what we do when we experience someone who has a way of being that that brings us up against our own rigid identity and self-concept, right?

The first reaction is to resist it. So there’s so much going on here and we can dive into all this, but I think for me a lot of it has been, and I think the first step for many people is just to look at all of these stories that we have about what work needs to be. And just to start to question that, is it true that work needs to be hard?

Is it true that I need to struggle to make money? Is it true that I [00:12:00] need to feel like work is something that I tolerate rather than something that I enjoy? Is there anybody else out there who’s living a different reality? And sometimes it’s just as simple as that to start to open up the door and create a different possibility for us.

Tim Melanson: Love that. Yeah. Questioning things. So you had mentioned earlier that you had some ups and downs, right? I’m wondering, can you share with us what are the bad notes? What are the things that didn’t go as planned?

Jason Moss: I mean, I feel like I have daily ups and downs and, and my journey as an entrepreneur is just continual failure.

And I, I love failure ’cause I learn, you know, I mean, I, I think the last, like if you look at the last 18 months, I would say nine to 12 months of that have been very challenging. They’ve been probably the single most challenging. Uh, months in my journey as an entrepreneur, particularly when we first moved into this home, I had just really shut down the previous iteration of my business.

Things weren’t flowing, the income [00:13:00] wasn’t coming in yet, and I just, man, there was so much scarcity and so much fear that came up for, for me around that. And it took me a couple months to really work through that. I realized how much fear I had around, you know, running outta money and all of these, you know, stories and beliefs, even though on paper, like things were okay, you know, I was, I was, I was set, you know, it really brought me up against myself.

Uh, so I, I don’t know if that’s like a conventional failure, but I do think part of, part of what you realize as an entrepreneur, it was like, if, if you’re, if you’re stepping into entrepreneurship, I think the realization is like failure is just. It’s, it’s almost like, how can I fail faster? Like, I, I love failing ’cause I learn, I’ve launched so many programs that have flopped things that I thought were gonna be great that I put out to my audience and people didn’t want to buy it or, uh, you know, hired people that weren’t the right people.

And that created conflict. I mean, there’s so many stories I could [00:14:00] tell. Uh, but I, I think it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s fun to fail ’cause you learn. And you get better through failure. It’s just feedback.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I, and I, that’s the main reason why I like talking about it on this podcast because I think, I think it’s, it’s just counterintuitive.

We’ve all been taught that, you know, you, you failure’s a bad thing. Right. And yeah. You know, you wanna avoid that at all costs. But, um, you know, I’ll tell

Jason Moss: you, I’ll tell you one story actually, that’s, I’m sorry to interrupt you, but some one. Mm-hmm. Because stories I think, sometimes are useful. It’s like it, I could talk about it, but if I can make it more specific.

One of my first businesses that I started after I graduated college was this business selling first aid kits on Amazon, which I don’t, you could ask Jason, why did you sell first aid kits? I was like, I don’t know. It seemed like a good idea. And so I didn’t have, this was, I was probably 20, 23 or something like that.

It was me and my girlfriend at the time, Lauren. [00:15:00] And I had no money. I think I had like $2,000 in savings and I invested all of my money, all the savings. Found this first aid kit supplier in China and was talking with this guy Daniel. I don’t think that was his real name, but it was like every, every Chinese supplier has like American names.

It was kind of funny, but anyways, so. I bought my first shipment of first aid kits, and this was like gonna be my big break. I was so excited about this, right? And so I make this big order. I invest all my savings into this first aid kit, and six weeks later I get this call from a number I don’t recognize and I pick up the phone.

And this like, gruff voice on the other side is like, Hey, is is this Jason? And I’m like, yeah. And they’re like, uh, this is US Customs. We have your first aid kits. Your supplier is not registered with the FDA. [00:16:00] Are you aware of this? I was like, no, it’s a first aid kit. They’re like, A first aid kit is a medical device.

I’m like, what are you talking about? I knew nothing about any of this. I was like a 23-year-old kid just trying to figure things out. They’re like, uh, we can’t bring these into the country. So your only choice is either to send them back, which is gonna cost you another couple thousand dollars. Which I didn’t have ’cause I was completely broke.

Or you can incinerate them. And so my first official shipment of first aid kits went up in flames, quite literally was incinerated. Wow. And I remember that week. ’cause it was so, man, I, I, it was so hard. I had, I was so upset about it. And then I had that moment after about like four or five days where I was like, okay, what am I gonna do next?

Am I gonna give up? Or am I gonna figure out another way to move forward? And so I was like, you know what, I’m not gonna give up. And I always have this moment when like failure, like that [00:17:00] happens, I actually get a little excited. There’s this part of me that says, Ooh, the fact that it’s hard is a good thing because this means that other people are gonna experience this ’cause it’s just part of entrepreneurship and it’s not gonna knock them out of the ring.

And if I move beyond this and I can actually just like rise through this experience, then when I step into the next level, it’s gonna be like rarefied air. Yep. Because there’re gonna be fewer people at the top who just couldn’t move through this. And so I ended up borrowing money from my girlfriend at the time who was very gracious to give me some of her money.

And I found another supplier and one that was registered with the FDA and I ordered a new order and it went through successfully and I ended up building a profitable business. And that worked really well. It was definitely a big moment of like, who do I, who am I gonna decide to be as an entrepreneur?

Tim Melanson: Wow. Wow. That’s a great story. I, I actually had the same thought. When things are either too easy or hard, I’m like, when it’s hard, I’m like, okay, well this just makes, this [00:18:00] makes sense to me now. That’s why, that’s why everybody else isn’t doing it. And when it’s easy, I actually have the opposite thought.

I’m like, eh, this is too easy. Uh, every anybody else could do this right now. What, what am I missing? By the way, what I’m missing is coming up. It’s right up the road a little bit, but Yeah, totally. But that’s awesome. So let’s talk a little bit about getting fans. ’cause I mean, in today’s world, I, the audience is everywhere.

It’s totally a different world. You don’t have to spend a boatload of money to, uh, to reach an audience. But, uh, because of that, everybody else is doing it. So how do you, how do you get people to like you?

Jason Moss: Yeah, that’s a good question. And I’ve been. It’s funny actually, my first official online audience, I was, I was, I told you this offline, I’m a musician.

I was a singer songwriter in high school and my first big audience was on MySpace at the time, so I was playing songs. I used to, I had this recording studio in my garage and I used to record these like heartfelt, [00:19:00] sensitive songs about like breakups and the things that I was going through. And then I post them on MySpace and I wanted people to listen to ’em.

So I had to figure out how to build an audience on my space. So at the time I was like, I’m just gonna cold, cold message like everyone I could. I found some software online that made it so you could like mass pe, mass message people. Not saying, I’m not recommending this by the way, as a strategy today, but you know, I built this audience and this platform on MySpace through sharing my heart and sharing music and connecting with people and having conversations with people and being honest and real, and sharing what was alive for me.

Then as I got a little bit older and I started really getting into marketing and studying this stuff and learning more about it, I learned the formulas and the tactics and how to write content that converts, and what initially became this very authentic expression of just sharing this thing that was alive for me started becoming a [00:20:00] performance.

Yeah, and every time I would show up and I would create online, it would feel like I was trying to say the perfect thing. I’m trying to follow all the scripts and the formulas to get people to convert and to follow the three step strategy I learned in this coaching program or that coaching program, and it worked on some level, but actually recently I’ve had this whole renaissance around how I see marketing, where I’ve actually returned back to what I was doing when I was 13 years old.

And I’ve realized that it’s actually very simple to build a platform online. The thing that that magnetizes people, that people really want to be around is when they feel like you’re letting them into your story and your journey and your life, and you’re sharing authentically who you are. And so I started just talking.

To my audiences if they were friends. And I started saying like, Hey, here’s something that I’m discovering in my business right now, or, here’s a thing that I learned today, or, here’s what’s feeling really [00:21:00] excited for, you know, exciting for me in this moment. I’m, I’m, you know, tapping into this new thing, or here’s this insight I had on this coaching call with this client, or here’s this one shift that they made and I just started sharing more from this place of.

I go through my day and I wait for that moment when I just have this, Ooh, I really wanna share this, and then I just post it and I write it in 20 seconds and I post it. Wow. And Tim, the difference when I say it’s been like night and day, I mean. Our, our follower account has grown by thousands of people.

We have, like, I have people reaching out to me almost every day like saying, oh my God, your con, like, your content’s amazing. You’re speaking like, this is so cool. Like this. This is resonating for me so deeply. And I think the thing that ev like so much of marketing is a perform. You go online and every, everybody’s trying to say the thing, the thing they need to say to get the client, right?

Mm-hmm. And so as soon as you just show up and you start [00:22:00] being real and sharing from your heart not to convert, but to connect, there’s a big distinction. It’s like, what’s the intention behind how you’re showing up? Are you trying to save the thing to get the client? Or you just sharing from this place of, I just wanna share.

’cause it feels really good to talk about the things that I’m excited about and to connect with other people. Just like in this conversation right now, like I’m not thinking, how do I say the perfect thing or position myself in a certain way so I can like, you know, line up a sale. I’m just like, Hey Tim, this is, this is where I’m at.

This is who I am, this is what’s alive for me right now. And there’s something very magnetic about that. So to answer your question around like, how do you build fans on a practical level, I think it’s simple. You choose one, two platforms that feel aligned for you, that you feel excited to show up and and engage with.

Maybe it’s Instagram, maybe it’s Facebook, maybe it’s TikTok, maybe it’s LinkedIn. There’s so many different punch points out there. I think social media [00:23:00] is a great place to start. And then you just start showing up and you start adding another conversation. And of course there’s, you know, mechanics and things underneath that, but.

On a practical level, I think that’s it. It’s like the simplest thing. The thing that makes it hard is like we make it really complicated ’cause we think there are all these rules we need to follow and all these strategies and systems and formulas that actually just cut us off from doing the thing that is, it’s like we all know how to build relationships, but then we get online and we think that there’s something different about online.

I’m like, no, it’s the same. So you’re already really good at relationships ’cause you’re a human being. So can you just do the same thing that you’re doing offline, naturally, authentically, as a human being online? Yeah. And that, that is the best marketing strategy, I think, out there.

Tim Melanson: Well, and there’s another big benefit to that as well, because I, I’ve found that the people that.

Um, if, if [00:24:00] you tend to try to say the right thing to get the sale, you’re not necessarily being yourself and you actually are, might even be attracting the wrong person. Whereas when you try to be yourself, then you’re, you’re, you’re attracting like minds, like the chances of you having a good connection with the person that’s calling you is way better.

You know, it’s like if you. Are always wearing t-shirts, but you wear a suit to this, to this, uh, you know, this video. Now you’re gonna attract the suits. The suits aren’t you? So, so it’s gonna turn out that when you get on the call with them and you try to work with them, you’re not really connecting.

Whereas if you just worn a t-shirt, you would’ve attracted the t-shirts. Does that make sense?

Jason Moss: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it’s funny, like I, for, for years I was so afraid to talk about being spiritual in my business. Because I was like, people are gonna think I’m weird. It was a big part of my life, and as soon as I started sharing and talking about it.

People were like, oh my God, this guy’s like, the [00:25:00] right people were like, for me, were like, this guy’s amazing. And I started getting all these clients who were so cool ’cause they were exactly like me. And today our, it was like our client roster. Every single person. I’m just like, I love working with you so much.

I would pay you. Don’t tell them. Let’s keep that between you and me. But, you know, I, I love them so much. Because I’ve shown up and brought so much of myself into my marketing that it’s like the right people find me and they have that moment where they’re like, you’re my person. Yeah. And I think with marketing so much of it is that it’s how can we bring more of who we are?

So many of us, especially if you come from a corporate world, corporate world, like messaging that you get in corporate is, it’s all about like fitting in. Yes, you gotta wear, you gotta dress the same as everybody else. You gotta round off all your edges, you gotta talk the same. You gotta use the lingo that everybody else uses, and then people step into their own business and.

They’re like, how do I be? Because me again, I feel like I [00:26:00] need to be. Yes. And that’s a process. It’s ha It’s actually the easiest thing to do is to be yourself. And the hardest thing to do is to be yourself because it means you just, you have to dismantle all of these layers of performance, of trying to be something.

All of these ways in which we, we show up as something else. It’s like this, the guy who wears the suit that really just wears the T-shirts, right? But I think that, and that’s a process and that’s a lot of the work that I do with clients because when it comes to being magnetic online and really attracting people and building an audience, so much of it is just pulling back all those layers and then being able to show up in a way that is deeply real and honest so that the right people find you and they just go, this guy’s amazing.

I can’t believe I found you. You’re exactly who I need.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it is that we. You know, if we even bring it to, to music. Uh, I mean, not everybody is gonna love your style of music. I mean, if you’re a, [00:27:00] you know, rock singer or a rock player, or a country player, there’s different genres on purpose and people are attracted to those different genres.

But for some reason in our business, I guess because we’re, it’s so personal, we get super offended when someone doesn’t wanna work with us or doesn’t like what, what, what it is we’re providing and. You know, how much time do you spend on that hater, right? Where there’s like all these other people that are actually really connecting with you and loving what you do.

And, you know, isn’t that, isn’t that crazy that we do tend to be lightning focused on that complaint, right?

Jason Moss: Yeah. It is something that comes up for so many entrepreneurs. I, I would say polarization is a really good thing. Like if you’re not getting haters, it means you’re not being honest enough. And I want to create content that 80% of people see and then go, this guy is weird.

Yeah, this is not for me. And 20% of people see and they [00:28:00] go, oh my God, this is exactly what I need. And in order for you to do that, you have to be polarizing. Yeah. You have to show people so fully who you really are and bring all of those things to the table that you’re like afraid to talk about. I was even a little afraid, I’ll be honest with you, Tim, I was even a little afraid to tell you that I was spiritual before we started.

Because you read my bio and I was like, ah, that’s kind of a little, like, not fully the thing, but I, I get a little nervous sometimes still too, right? Because I’m afraid if I tell you that maybe you’re not gonna be like that. And that might create some like weirdness. So I have those pieces of myself too.

And it’s being able to notice that and say like, can I really lean in to being fully who I actually am instead of whitewashing, instead of rounding off the edges? And that, that is when you will get more haters, you will get more people who are like. What is this? You know, this is not for me. Yeah. And that’s a really good thing.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Jason Moss: Because we have to get outta this mindset of trying to appeal to everyone. And the only way that you can really stand out truly is [00:29:00] by, by really owning fully who you are, in a way where you become perfect for a very small se segment of people and not, not for like 99% of people on the planet.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and, and I mean there’s also like just a practical aspect of that too.

Like if you’re, if, if you’re doing all these different things all the time, like you’re multitasking in a bad way, like you’re going from doing it one way to doing it a different way, to doing it in a different way. I mean, really when we get into a flow, we get into a flow doing something. That we know how to do really, really well.

And you know, the same thing kind of happens for different types of people in in your business and different needs that they have. It’d be so much more efficient if you got onto every call and you knew exactly what you were doing. This was the exact type of person that you deal with, and it’s exactly what you are the best at doing rather than trying to do all this different stuff and try to please all these different people.

And you have to change, like [00:30:00] change your brain every time you get onto another call. Like practically, that’s just exhausting, right? Yeah.

Jason Moss: Well said.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, well said. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about making Ends beach, about keeping the hat full, making money, the cash flow of it all, because that’s another thing that we’ve been programmed, that math is bad, right?

And you know, how do you make sure that, that you’re, that you’re making more money than you’re spending, right?

Jason Moss: There’s a lot to say on this. This is a big topic. I mean, the first thing I would just, that comes to mind is like that phrase, making ends meet, I think points to like this deeper narrative around how we see money and people have all sorts of stories and beliefs around money and the beliefs that you have and hold around money will be the things that you create in your life.

So if you have a story that like your, if your goal is like, I wanna make ends meet, if that’s your mindset, then you’ll figure out a way to make ends [00:31:00] meet. I’m like, that’s not my reality. I live in like a world where I am overflowing, like I have more than enough, and my desire is I wanna create from such abundance and bring such abundance into my world that I get to like give and share and create from this overflow.

A lot of people feel uncomfortable about that. ’cause there’s, there’s a part of us that feels like, like, we don’t deserve that or Mm. Like we, we need to earn it. This is another thing, it’s like people have all sorts of stories and beliefs around like, money is this thing that I need to do X in order to get y.

The way I see money is, it’s like air. It’s all around us. It’s just an energy and just like, I don’t have to earn air. It’s like I breathe and it comes into my lungs. That’s how I see money. But when you have a story, and most people have this story that they need to work really hard for money.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Jason Moss: Money doesn’t come easily.

Money doesn’t go on growing trees. Uh, you know, like if it comes too easy, it’s, it something’s wrong. You know, like we have all these stories and [00:32:00] narratives that money’s hard. It’s hard to get. And so then we create a reality in which it’s hard to get money. And so if you rewire those stories, the way I experience.

Money. And this truly is my experience and, and I, I mean, I’ve been building business online for so long, for close to 20 years now. I’ve signed over 2000 clients. Like I live in this reality where so, so much is coming to us all the time. Like I’m super grateful for it. It’s always here. I have more than enough clients.

All my needs are met all the time. And what allowed me to step into that was. Simply starting to look at, oh, these are all the stories that I have about money. Wow. This is really interesting. I have, like, when I was growing up, my dad made a lot of money, but he worked really hard. He worked six days a week.

He used to wake up on Sundays at four o’clock in the morning. And I watched that as a kid and we were, we [00:33:00] were wealthy, but we, my, my story from watching my dad. You can make a lot of money, but you gotta work really hard.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Make

Jason Moss: a lot of money. Yeah. So I created that in my life and I, it’s funny, you know, it was like my first successful online business.

I was working six days a week. I was working every Sunday. I was, you know, I was, it was, I was making six figures, but I was working really hard. And then I remember hanging out with this mentor of mine and he asked me this question. He was like, do you make money or do you receive it? I was like, that’s really interesting.

I’ve always had this story that I make money, but what if it was more like, money is just like air, like it’s all around me and, and I don’t have to do anything or earn it. It’s more like I just opened to it and what would that be like? Huh. And my whole reality started changing, and it wasn’t like overnight, but I started seeing all these opportunities around me because I had a new story.

I had a new set of beliefs, and suddenly it was like, oh, [00:34:00] opportunities always here. That’s how I experience money. It’s, it’s always here. It’s always right in front of us. The question is, are we seeing it? And if you have a story that says money is hard, you will not see all the opportunities to create wealth that are easy.

Your brain will not allow you to see something in the world that doesn’t correspond to the belief that you have. So when I said earlier, it’s about the inside out. The way I experience this is we start by looking at the stories. You know, we like, I love doing money work with clients ’cause it’s underneath all, almost all the challenges people have in their businesses.

And most people spend all day chasing the outside trying to change the story. It’s like, man, I need a new strategy or I need some new marketing plan. But I’m like, if you have a story that money is hard to make. No marketing plan is gonna change that until we change the story and then the rest will take care of itself.

You’ll figure out a way to make it easy.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Jason Moss: Wow. [00:35:00] I think there’s a lot here, but I would say to start to make it like super simple is just like what is your relationship with money? What stories do you have around money and how you see making money? Do you believe that you make money? Do you believe that you receive money?

Do you believe that it’s hard to make money? Do you believe that it’s easy to make money? And just looking at those and just saying, ha, that’s really interesting. And you can write ’em all down. Then you can start to question those beliefs. It’s like, is it true that making money is hard? Well, it’s been true in my life.

Can I find any examples of any person on the planet where that is not the case? Is there anyone else out there that’s making money in a way that’s really easy? Hmm. Oh yeah. That guy over there, he seems to be pretty relaxed. He’s making like millions of dollars. What’s going on there? That’s interesting.

Oh, that’s interesting. And so we start to create this new evidence [00:36:00] and suddenly your world expands ’cause you’re not in the box of the old story anymore. Right. So there’s a lot to say on this and obviously there’s like a practical aspect to having offers and having like ways people can pay you in your business.

My experience is that’s like 5% of it and that often takes care of itself ’cause your brain will figure out the right strategy when you have the right set of beliefs. 95% of it really is that internal side of things. It’s, it’s rewiring the stories that we have around money.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Wow. I do obviously a full episode on this particular topic.

I feel like this could go on for a while because I, I, I, I, I’m a hundred percent with you. I mean, I, I, I remember there was a statistics that, that I heard a long time ago saying that, you know, most people are $500 away from bankruptcy. And living paycheck to paycheck. And, and then I, I look at the people around me and I, and even myself, and I notice that when something goes wrong, like [00:37:00] when you, that $500 expense happens.

Isn’t it funny how you always find the money for it? Like people aren’t just always going bankrupt, they’re figuring it out. So somehow. And, and I, I, I had this hack that I was using for a while. I, I noticed that, that I would always get the money that I needed for that month. Like I’ve been self-employed for five, what, 15 years now.

And so it’s always been this, and I would always have enough money for that month. How was that possible? Like I didn’t know where it was coming gonna come from, but it would just always just come. So then I realized that, okay, if my bank account is too full, work stops coming in. I’m like, huh. So then I started thinking, okay, well what if I just offloaded that and I just put it into another place?

If that bank account was always empty, what would happen? And that’s where I’m actually at now, where I keep my bank account almost empty and I would just offload it into a savings account. And as long as that is close to empty money, it keeps coming in. Yeah. [00:38:00]

Jason Moss: I mean, it’s super interesting. Like if I were coaching you, I would, I would really explore that with you because what I find with a lot of entrepreneurs is.

There’s different places we can create from, and oftentimes like people feel like this, this need, like sometimes we have a story that we need to create from pressure, and it, it actually like, feels helpful to be like, oh, if the, the bank account’s at zero, you know, then like, I feel this like intensity or this urgency to try to like fix it or solve a problem.

I go out there, I hustle, I make things happen. And that that, you know, I have no judgment about that. I think there’s also. There’s a level of like, if we drop it one level deeper, ’cause a lot of this work is it’s nervous system work. It’s, it’s how safe do we feel around, like holding money? And a lot of people I find have like, it’s like they don’t feel safe holding [00:39:00] and Yep.

So if there’s too much money in the bank account, we’ll find a way to like get rid of it. Because it’s like, I don’t feel safe like having this money here. Like I don’t feel worthy of it, or I don’t feel like there’s some kind of belief or story underneath that. And so we’ll create a reality in which like the bank account is always empty, or like, if there’s too much there, like we’ll find a way to get rid of it, basically.

Yeah. To like bring us back to baseline. So there’s so much here and so much to unpack. Um, but I think 99% of the stuff that trips people up in terms of like building wealth and creating abundance in business is really just. We’re just seeing ourselves reflected in the business and yeah, the beliefs and the stories and the stuff on the inside, that’s really just showing us, you know, our own work basically.

Tim Melanson: I think, I think some of it might be, uh, might be the fact that so many people are struggling around us and we feel like, how come I have this money? Am I supposed to give it to everybody else? ’cause you have, yeah, people coming at [00:40:00] you for money when they see that you have money. ’cause also I think a belief, a a widespread belief that money is evil and people who are rich are evil.

And so you’re gonna definitely keep yourself in a situation where you’re not gonna have a bunch of money. ’cause then that makes you one of those evil people. Right. That, so

Jason Moss: those are two very common beliefs. Yeah. A lot of stuff comes up around belonging with money. Especially if you have friends who aren’t as wealthy.

Mm-hmm. And then suddenly you start making more money. There’s this fear of like, am I gonna lose connection or love? Yep. Or belonging. So oftentimes you’ll subconsciously self-sabotage to bring yourself to back to the baseline of the people that are around you so that you don’t lose the love and belonging.

And so there’s that piece for sure. And then like, yeah, it’s like how do you feel about rich people? I think that’s a question I often ask like my clients. It is like, is there any part of you when you think of being really rich that’s like, Ooh, that feels, that doesn’t feel good in my body? Yeah. I feel some like ickiness or resistance around that.[00:41:00]

It’s so funny ’cause like on one level people really want more money, but then on another level they hate people who have more money. And then we wonder why it’s so hard to make more money. I’m like, your subconscious mind will not allow you to become something that you hate. Its job is to protect you from pain.

Absolutely what it thinks will bring you pain. So, so many people are telling themselves these stories about what rich people are or aren’t, and it’s reinforced by our culture because you go on Netflix and all the documentaries that you see are these rich people who are scamming people and ripping people off.

Yep. There’s a lot of rich people out there who are doing. Incredible, beautiful things in the world and using their wealth to impact lives and change lives and give and, and incredibly generous. Actually, most of the, the wealthiest people that I’ve ever met have been the most generous people I’ve ever met me in my entire life.

It’s beautiful. Me, it’s completely changed, like my narrative. ’cause I don’t, I like for every, and I don’t really think I’ve ever met a wealthy person who has, who has. [00:42:00] Not been just a joy to be around. Yeah. And a true, big hearted, generous person who is using their overflow to, to share and give and, and bring more love into the world.

You know, but most people don’t have that narrative

Tim Melanson: because that’s not the narrative. Most because the media features the other ones.

Jason Moss: Right, exactly. Because it reinforces our worldview and it’s actually, if you look at it one level deeper, I think there’s actually like a power dynamic there. Yeah. Because I think wealthy, like very wealthy people who may not have like the best interests of the masses in mind.

I think there’s like if we, if we keep people in that box. It means that other people can’t rise. Yeah. And so there are very much power structures that exist and people who wanna reinforce that existing structure of power through basically just continuing to reinforce these narratives. So there is like a liberation here that starts to happen when we rewrite these scripts and we start telling us different ourselves, different [00:43:00] stories.

And I’m like, oh yeah, being rich isn’t a bad thing. It’s a beautiful thing. Like being rich is just gonna make me more of who I really am. I’m someone who cares so deeply about other people. I want to change the world. I wanna help other people. The more money I have, the more I get to do that. Like, what a cool thing.

It’s just an amplifier of my goodness and my gifts and my ability to share and give and help other people. I wanna be wealthy. I wanna make as much money as possible so I can circulate it, so I can bring it to the people who really need it like that. That’s my mindset, and I feel so, so open to the possibility of receiving more.

I don’t have that resistance. So my experience of life is I constantly just have opportunities coming to me to create more wealth.

Tim Melanson: Well, I wanna hear more about it then. So tell me what’s exciting in.

Jason Moss: Man so much right now. I, I mean, we just launched this new program, the Collective, a couple of weeks ago, which is a membership community for entrepreneurs who are [00:44:00] really wanting to grow their business from the inside out.

So what we talked about today, limit, you know, we’re rewiring like limiting beliefs and stories and, and doing this inner work and, and treating the business as this like vehicle for internal growth. Uh, that’s the work that we’re doing inside this community. And I’ve never run a, a. Program like this in my life and to see the entrepreneurs at all different stages of business.

We have people who are just getting started as well as people who are running multi seven figure businesses inside. And to just see the transformations that are happening and the tears and the breakthroughs and people just like it, it’s, I feel incredibly humbled and just so, so, so grateful and so like, wow, this is the work that I am here to do on this planet.

And. I’m so excited to see that community continue to grow and to just pour like my heart into that space because there’s just so much, so much good for all of us there and, and so much that’s happening inside. Um, [00:45:00] yeah, so that’s, that’s something that I’m really excited about right now. So how do we find out

Tim Melanson: more?

Jason Moss: Yeah, there’s a, so if you go to my website, jason moss.com, there’s actually a link you can join. There’s like a page, you can join the, the community on the, on the site. And we’ve got, you know, just all sorts of like free YouTube videos and things like that. We’ve got a whole training that’s up there right now on ance.

Which is a, we kind of got into that today. It’s a new form of marketing that’s really more authentic, more you showing up and being who you really are. So some of the stuff we talked about with marketing resonated, that training’s really good. All of that is on my site, jason moss.com. So, um, lots of different ways you can plug it and dive deeper.

Tim Melanson: I love it. Okay. Probably the hardest question of the day here. Who’s your favorite Rockstone?

Jason Moss: Oh man, that is a question. I wanna give you a good answer. ’cause I feel like I, I can’t, like, I can’t cheat and say like Paul McCartney or whatever.

Tim Melanson: Good. It is. Probably mine.

Jason Moss: He’s one of ’em.[00:46:00]

Yeah. I don’t know. That’s a good question. When I was a kid, I really loved John Mayer. Yeah, I know that’s a weird, that’s maybe not like a rockstar answer, but I think he’s an awesome guitarist and. I just really like his songs, you know?

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Jason Moss: I’ve never seen him live, but you know, I, I hope, hopefully I will at some point.

I think, I think he’s pretty talented.

Tim Melanson: I agree. Yeah. He, uh, yeah, he’s, um, I, I love the, just the acoustic feel of how he plays as well too and uh, and his songs. Yeah, his songs are fantastic. He’s got that one song, uh, uh, waiting for the World to Change. He is got some songs that, that’s a good one. Yeah. Like really good messages as well.

Jason Moss: You know what else is coming to mind for me too? Have you ever checked out Jacob Collier? No, I haven’t heard any of this off. So, Jacob, we actually, me and Kimberly saw him play in Denver, I wanna say like a year ago. He’s, this dude is [00:47:00] like virtuoso level jazz, p like pianist. His, his mastery over like chord, chord structures and progressions.

He, he, it was so cool. He would use the audience as like a, a choir. Yep. So there were like a couple thousand people there and he would like sing different notes and everyone would sing the notes. And so it was like you were a part of the actual show and the experience too. It was so cool. He’s got so much like stuff on YouTube too.

I think he’s, he’s, I’m a pretty big fan of his work.

Tim Melanson: Wow. I love that. Well, I could talk about this forever, man, but we are out of time, so thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Jason. This has been a lot of fun. It was a pleasure. Yeah, a lot of fun. Thanks, Sam. Awesome to the listeners. Make sure you go to work@homerockstar.com for more information.

We’ll see you next time on the Work At Home Rockstar Podcast.