Mastering Podcast Marketing with Sarah St. John

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the work at home rockstar podcast. Very excited for today’s episode. We are talking to the founder and CEO of podcast marketing agency. And what they do is they help podcasters grow market and monetize their shows. So I’m excited to be rocking out today with Sarah St.

John. Hey, Sarah, you ready to rock?

Sarah St: I’m ready to rock and roll.

Tim Melanson: Love it. So we always start off here in a good note. So tell me a story of success in your business that we can all be inspired by.

Sarah St: Yeah. So I would say a fairly, fairly recent one, uh, probably about a year ago. Um, my podcast hit the top 100 in Apple podcasts under entrepreneurship. Um, so that, that was pretty exciting. And I’ve. Kind of trying to figure, you know, try to figure out how that happened and whatever. And I’ve done some speaking engagements on it, on different tips to get to the top 100.

So it’s kind of, um, opened up some speaking [00:01:00] opportunities as well.

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Sarah St: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: That’s really cool. Yeah. Cause you know, it is a bit of a mystery. I mean, this is obviously a podcast, so I, you know, I’ve kind of been watching things and some episodes get lots of downloads. Some of them don’t, and you get like, Added in these new and network new and noteworthy when you first get started, maybe, maybe not,

Sarah St: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: and nobody seems to know exactly why it’s, it’s, it’s bizarre, isn’t it?

Sarah St: Yeah. It’s. Yeah. It’s like, they haven’t really revealed. Exactly how to do it. And then they don’t even notify you. It’s like, you just have to stumble upon it, your own on your own. Or like in my case, friends of mine, other podcast friends had noticed and they let me know. And so, yeah.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it’s bizarre stuff. Well, I mean, and I guess, uh, you know, Google is similar to with their, the way that they run their algorithm. They don’t tell you, they just sort of like, I guess I make [00:02:00] sense because if they do tell you, then people tend to try to game that system, right? They, Sort of try to cheat and get their podcast higher.

So they don’t tell you then, you know, chances are their organic algorithms will pick you up more. Right. I

Sarah St: that’s a good point. Yeah. Maybe that is why.

Tim Melanson: think it is. I’ve been around the digital marketing industry for a little while. And back, you know, when I first got started, people used to use these articles spinners. So you write one article and then you’d create, you know, umpteen versions of it based on just, you know, and obviously you can’t do that anymore. But back then, you know, people used to try to cheat. So I think that’s, I think that’s why, you

Sarah St: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Tim Melanson: yeah. But anyway, so along with a good note, sometimes there’s some things that don’t go as planned, some bad notes that get hit. So tell me, is there something that like a mistake that you made along your path that we can learn from?

Sarah St: Yeah. I mean, in general, I, I had a shiny object syndrome for well over a [00:03:00] decade. Um, and tried a bunch of different business models and had several different businesses. And I think not being focused on what You know, trying to nail down one business or one business model and trying a bunch of different things like that just wasted time, energy, effort, money.

Um, so I would say generally speaking, That, but a specific example, not even really related to that, but a failure, I suppose, but kind of out of my control though, is, uh, before I got into podcasting, well, I was kind of doing podcasting, but not, I didn’t have a podcast business, but I had an online travel agency.

But then COVID happened. And, um, so all my bookings got canceled and you don’t get paid until [00:04:00] the person completes their trip. So like a bunch of work that then I didn’t end up getting paid for. So I ended up closing or stopping that business. Um, because I was like, it just seemed too volatile with, you just never know, like what could happen, a global pandemic or.

Maybe some, um, safety or security issue that could happen and affect travel or whatever. And so I guess that would be a failure in a way, but kind of like, I mean, I could have stuck with it, I suppose, but who knew how long it was going to take for. You know, people start traveling again. Um, so yeah, I just closed shop, but I’m glad I did because then it gave me more time to focus on podcasting and all of that, and then launch a podcast business and [00:05:00] all of that kind of stuff.

So I think in the end it, it worked out and was probably the right decision, but

Tim Melanson: Yeah. It seems like the good notes and the bad notes are always like intermingled. Right.

Sarah St: yeah, yeah, sometimes the good ones can turn into, I mean, sometimes the bad ones can turn into good because like, they’re not maybe good at the time, but then when you. Or a year or something out from it, you can maybe look back and see why that happened.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, well, they always do say that you don’t really learn from the, the, the successes you learn from the failures. And that’s, that’s kind of the point. Right?

Sarah St: Yeah, that is a good point.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And I, I just like, that’s why I like to talk about the bad note on the show. So often is because it is 1 of those things where people sort of try to avoid failing.

But if you avoid failing, you’re probably not doing anything. First of all, Right.

Sarah St: Oh, true.

Tim Melanson: Right. And so you’re probably standing still, but also, you know, if you [00:06:00] hear from all these people that have, you know, successful businesses that are, you know, meeting the needs that they want, and they all have a failure to talk about every 1 of them.

Right. So, you know, it is 1 of those things where, you know, we have to normalize that that failure. Right.

Sarah St: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. How can you learn and grow and improve if you don’t fail? Really?

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Well, yeah, and, and I think , you know, that’s one of those things where if you just happen to get lucky and you get the success right out of the gate, te tends to not really last very long. , right? Something, something weird happens and all of a sudden you’re at square zero and then you don’t know how to gut how to get back up. Because you, you know, you didn’t actually do anything the 1st time. You just got lucky. Maybe you bought in at the right time or whatever it happens to be. Right? Yeah.

Sarah St: Yeah, that’s a good point too. Wow.

Tim Melanson: So, uh, I’m wondering, let’s talk about a little bit about fans. So, [00:07:00] you know, the, the podcast industry is a great example because, uh, you know, anybody can start a podcast, anybody, you just have to have a passion. Computer probably, you don’t even have to have a computer, you have to have a phone, I think, a

Sarah St: You’re right.

Tim Melanson: and boom, you’re, you’re done.

You’re in business. You’ve got your podcast, but, you know, there’s a difference between putting the podcast out there and then getting a bunch of fans to your podcast. So, I’m wondering, how would you go about maybe getting fans? How did you go about it the 1st time? And then would you do anything differently now?

Sarah St: Yeah. So I think one thing I recommend is being on platforms that podcast platforms that have kind of a social component, like good pods or pod vine or some others where you actually get to communicate with listeners.

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Sarah St: Where, I mean, of course you should be on Apple and Spotify and all those as well. Um, [00:08:00] But it’s nice to be on platforms where, you know, you can actually communicate with listeners and I guess even YouTube though, um, if you have a video podcast and you put it on YouTube, uh, you can communicate that way.

Um, so that would be one thing. And then of course, you know, posting on social media, but to me, posting your podcast on social media is not necessarily. Too likely that someone’s going to, you know, click over and listen to your podcast, but it’s more of an awareness thing. Like people know about your podcast or find out about it.

They might not actually like go to a podcast app and listen to it from social media. But, um, They, they might at least see your little clips or whatever. Um, and then there’s, uh, you know, there’s various like newsletters and blogs and, um, [00:09:00] and other podcasts that you can get in. Uh, you could do like pod swaps with someone, like be on their show and then have them on your show and kind of cross promote.

Or you could, um. Uh, even if regardless of whether you have your own podcast or not, I definitely recommend podcast guesting, but even as a podcast host, I recommend that as well, because then obviously you’re reaching podcast listeners. So if they’re listening to the show that you’re a guest on. They’re more likely to like check out your show than maybe, you know, a social media post or something like that, where that those people might not even be podcast listeners.

Um, and then there are like, you know, paid methods, like on podcast player ads and directories where you can, and if you’re going to run ads, I recommend doing them in a podcast [00:10:00] player versus like social media, because. Yeah, like some of the podcast players, they’ll, they have, um, or, or apps or, um, platforms, they have options to run ads.

Some are more expensive than others. I usually do the really affordable ones that are like a hundred or less to run a campaign, but that’s a good way as well. Kind of like guesting on another show, but you might not. Reach more people that way. So those are just, um, a few different ways of kind of like, uh, you know, hopefully people finding you or learning about you and your podcast and hopefully listening and subscribing and following.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I like it. Those are really good tips. First of all, I didn’t even know that there are social podcast apps. That’s kind of cool. I’m going to check that myself. Uh, right. But, but your, your [00:11:00] idea about the ads is really good too, because I think that I think that social media, like, I mean, I’ve, I’ve been using social media to try to promote my podcast.

I don’t find it gets a whole lot of, you know, Traction and I can see why because I don’t really find podcasts through social media myself. What I do is I go into my player and if I’m playing a podcast, you’re right. You sort of see related podcasts and oh, okay. Then you click there. So it does make sense because, you know, you’re already on the platform where you’re listening to a podcast.

You’re probably more likely to hit. People who are interested in podcasts in the platform that they listen to podcasts and right? That makes sense to me. Whereas in social media, they’re probably not looking for a podcast. I think that’s a great place to put your clips, you know, because they, you know, they, they watch your clip and then they, but they probably won’t go to your podcast.

They’ll just watch the clip and go to the next clip because

Sarah St: Yeah,

Tim Melanson: do.

Sarah St: Right.

Tim Melanson: Right on. That’s cool. Those are really good. So now let’s talk a little bit about instruments and [00:12:00] about tools that you use. So you must have some, you know, a set of tools that you use to get success in your, in your business.

What, what are those?

Sarah St: Yeah. And they’re mainly like software tools. Um, like for example, when I edit a podcast, I use Descript.

Tim Melanson: Me too.

Sarah St: Oh, you do. Yeah. I loved your script. And then like, you know, for, uh, like video clips for social. I’ve used a few platforms, but right now I’m using Minvo because they had an app sumo deal. I, are you familiar with app sumo?

Oh no. Okay.

Tim Melanson: I use Opus clip.

Sarah St: Oh, okay. Yeah. So app sumo, it’s like this marketplace for various. Soft, you know, software for entrepreneurs that offer like lifetime deals. So, um, I was using wizard. ai, I think, and, and some others for like my clips, but that was [00:13:00] like a monthly fee, but then Menvo does the same thing. And they were on there.

I think it was like a 59 lifetime deal. Um, so I use that now and then let’s see what else. Um, I was using send Fox for email, but I might switch to convert kit cause they just now are offering a, a free plan up to 10, 000 subscribers. I’m all about. Well, and I think we’ll get into that later, but using free software where I

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Sarah St: um, let’s see, what else do I use?

Um, I should pull up, uh, I have like a list of things I use, um, hold on.

Okay. Let’s see. I also use, uh, for like, you know, being a guest on other shows or having guests on your show, like [00:14:00] finding those people. Podmatch, which I, is probably where we

Tim Melanson: Yeah. That’s where we met. Yep. Okay.

Sarah St: um, for my calendar, I use tidy Cal, which is actually an AppSumo product, but it’s like Calendly, but it’s a one time fee.

So it’s, um, more affordable. And then like for my websites, landing pages, sales funnels, all that stuff, I use a platform called system. io it’s S Y S T M E. io. Yeah. So, uh, let’s see what, Oh, and cast magic for like show notes and transcripts. They actually also had a deal on AppSumo, but they don’t anymore.

But, um, yeah, so a lot of podcasts related softwares that kind of help automate different, um, things

Tim Melanson: Wow. Well, I’m going to check all those out. Cause, uh, I’m, I’m using more paid, [00:15:00] uh, paid things. Yeah. But, uh, but that’s the thing is that there’s a lot of free, um, I find that sometimes the free software, their upgrade to the, like their first level paid usually is pretty sweet. Right. They, you know, they obviously are getting a lot of people using the platform and probably get An opportunity to work out the bugs with all that stuff.

And then their first level of paid, you know, versions are usually pretty sweet too. So, you know, that’s obviously an option too. Right.

Sarah St: Yeah, definitely. I recommend that.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. So, I mean, that kind of leads perfectly into the next topic, which is the, you know, keeping the hat full of the cashflow. So obviously you’ve got that figured out if you’re using lots of free versions of stuff, right?

Sarah St: Yeah. And so, um, of course, you know, keeping the, the, uh, cashflow, we do want to make more money, but I think kind of to incorporate saving more money, I mean, the more money you save, the [00:16:00] more money you’re really. I guess making or, or yeah. And so for me, I use a lot of free software or like the, the free plan anyway, on the software, or I’ll do the lifetime deals.

I check AppSumo every day, um, for their latest deals. And then if it’s something that, I could use or like say, I’m using some other software, but now this software would replace that one for a lifetime deal. Um, then I’ll do that. So I do a lot of that. Um, and then, um, I mean, really the only things I, I mean, I pay for descript, which is like 15 bucks a month. Um, they do have a free plan, but it won’t really

Tim Melanson: No, it doesn’t do enough. Yeah.

Sarah St: Yeah. Um, yeah. Let’s see. And then of course, podcast hosting, I use captivate. Um, and then [00:17:00] everything else. I think I either use something that’s free or I’ve already paid for like a one time deal where it’s like, you know, 50 bucks one time, maybe as much as a hundred.

Um, so I don’t have recurring. Monthly expenses.

Tim Melanson: Good for you.

Sarah St: Yeah. Oh, and that’s kind of how I got the idea of, um, so my podcast is called frugal preneur, which is about building a business on a bootstrap budget. And kind of how I got the, well, I originally was a book and then I did a podcast, but the idea came from the fact that I was, you know, trying different online business models and discovered all these free or affordable, you know, Software programs or tools or resources to like run an online business anyway, for under a hundred a month.

Um, and yeah, I’ve been able to consistently do that under a hundred a month in terms of like software. Like if you’re running ads [00:18:00] and stuff, that’s a whole other thing, but, um, But yeah, software wise, definitely under a hundred a month. Um, and so, yeah, I, I just feel like the, the less we get, we have to spend on software and, uh, just operations and all of that.

Um, the more money we can, you know, put in. Pocket. Yeah.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and I will say that, uh, for, for using a descript, like, to edit your podcast, it’s, it’s pretty, I mean, it’s, I wouldn’t say it’s accessible to anybody, but on the other hand, you don’t have to be like a. Super audio engineer in order to use it where as about like, when I started my podcast in 2015, it was actually very difficult.

I was, I was, I was explaining to my son about it just yesterday, how back then, if I wanted to take a, like, a piece and cut out, like, an um, or something like that, you had to like, [00:19:00] Go into the wave file and go select the wave file and delete it. And they had to zoom right in because you couldn’t get any of the other words around it.

And it was actually a lot of time. And now with Descript, you just delete the um, right. And it’s gone, right? Like, so things have really gotten a lot easier to use in terms of tools. I, you know, it still is, you know, a little bit time consuming. But that’s the thing, depending on where you’re at in your business, if you aren’t making a whole lot of money, well, then time is all you got.

Uh, however, you know, once you start to grow your business, well, then maybe you get to a point where you can like hire a team to start to do that stuff. But, um, but you can definitely get off the ground right now with just spending your time, right?

Sarah St: Yeah. And I definitely recommend that, you know, starting out. Um, and yeah, for people who are kind of confused on the descript thing. So it’s like the way it works is you bring in your audio or video file and it creates a transcript and you can edit the [00:20:00] transcript. Which will edit the audio and video. So like you, in a click of a button, you can remove filler words like ums and uhs.

Uh, I just did one right there.

Tim Melanson: Yep. I’m probably going to leave it in though, because I, I find that the ums and ahs are sort of useful in most, in most conversations. I found it’s like super robotic if you take them all out. Uh, but it is good to take them out for your clips.

Sarah St: Oh, that’s true. Yeah. And there, there’s like a whole bunch of other stuff you can do. Um, so it’s just, it’s easier and to me, it’s easier because you’re editing the audio based on the transcript and the words versus like,

Tim Melanson: A way

Sarah St: Oh yeah,

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Things have definitely come along quite a, quite a ways now. Uh, now I’m wondering though, like how do you make money from your podcast?

Sarah St: yeah, well, there’s a few ways, um, you know, I think the way that most people [00:21:00] think of is sponsorship, which I do make some money from, uh, occasional sponsorships, but the way that I do it, you I’ll reach out to, uh, software companies or other podcasts that would be relevant for my listeners, um, and work out a deal directly versus like the CPM model, which I think is cost per mille, which basically the industry standard, I think ranges from like 15 to 25 bucks per thousand downloads.

Tim Melanson: Okay.

Sarah St: Um, But if you work on a deal directly, you can usually. Work out a better deal than that. Um, so that’s one thing, or you could use affiliate marketing, like say you have an author on your show or, well, you just have someone on your show that happened to have written a book. Um, [00:22:00] you know, you could link to that book there, the Amazon link in your show notes, or say you do have someone on who does have software or they have a course or, uh, a coaching program or anything you could.

Um, link to that in your show notes, maybe even work out a coupon code for your listeners. So they’re more inclined to, uh, sign up under your link

Tim Melanson: Hmm.

Sarah St: you know, signing up directly. Um, so yeah, so sponsorships, affiliates, and then of course, if you have your own product or service, um. That’s really the best way to make money.

Cause like sponsorships and affiliates, that’s like, you know, money here and there, and it’s usually smaller amounts and whatever, but if you have, say you have a coaching program or you have a course or something like that, and you had a podcast related to that kind of topic, whatever your program is on or your course, [00:23:00] I mean, you’re likely to make a lot more money

Tim Melanson: Yeah,

Sarah St: promoting that.

Um, so yeah, there’s, and you could have merge, which I. Really don’t recommend bothering with unless you’re a huge podcast. Um, but yeah, there’s, there’s several ways to monetize, but I would say that those are the most common and the products and serve having your own product and service. That would definitely be.

Tim Melanson: yeah, yeah, that’s for me. That’s mine. I build websites and do do branding and stuff. So that’s my main business. And then my podcast is really a, a way for me to get out there, meet people, you know, connect with people that are likely to need a website. Uh, so yeah, so I’m basically following that, that blueprint, but, but I will say that the, you know, it’s been one of those things where, you know, when I started the podcast, actually, when I started the podcast, that was the main reason I thought, okay, I’m probably not gonna make any money on this podcast, but, uh, you know, I’ll meet people that might [00:24:00] be able to come into my business.

But over time, You know, you sort of start to get these emails from people going like, Hey, you can monetize your podcast and all that kind of stuff.

Sarah St: Oh

Tim Melanson: and it makes you think, Oh, maybe I can make money directly from my podcast. Um, but I think that, I think that, you know, what you’re saying, and you seem to be an expert in the area that it’s not super profitable for most people to be able to make money just from, you know, a sponsorship or, or like directly from the podcast.

Cause I think you really do need a A lot of downloads in order for that to actually, you know, um, pay off for you. But that being said, uh, the opposite side where we were just talking about if you’re a coach or anything like that, you actually can, you know, indirectly make money from a podcast that doesn’t get a whole lot of downloads.

You know, you’re, you’re actually meeting people and you’re able to create content that you can consistently use in your social media campaigns to actually, you know, create some trust with people. Right. So. [00:25:00] It can be profitable, even though you’re not technically making it directly from the podcast. Is that accurate?

The way I’m saying it?

Sarah St: Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s kind of like if you get tens of thousands of downloads of, uh, an episode, well then yeah, maybe sponsorship or even affiliate. Makes the most sense or could be profitable. Um, but yeah, if you’re getting like a thousand downloads or a hundred downloads, even, um, per episode, you know, having your own coaching program or course or something like that, um, would make more sense.

And, and yeah, even if you just had a hundred listeners, if your podcast and your audience is super niche down to like what you’re, you know,

Tim Melanson: Selling.

Sarah St: Yeah. It’s a, what you’re selling. Yeah. Then, um, I mean, even if 10%, uh, uh, [00:26:00] signed up for it or whatever, you could make a lot of money. So it’s kind of like, maybe the podcast doesn’t directly make money, like with a sponsorship situation, but indirectly through like, well, that’s how people find you and learn about you and learn about what you offer and that kind of thing.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yep. And I mean, the other side benefit I think that I’ll say is that you get really A lot better at speaking at, at talking to people. Right. And I mean, that’s a huge thing, especially considering like, um, making a sales call and talking about your actual business is a lot harder than having a casual conversation with a friend over the internet on a podcast.

Right. And the, the. Bottom line of it is that sales really is just communicating. So the better you get at communicating just generally, the better you’re going to get at sales indirectly. So it’s kind of like one of those things where if you can start a podcast, you know, [00:27:00] and, and just get more familiar with either having a guest on, or even just talking into a mic on your own, you’re going to improve your, your overall skill at having those conversations, which are super essential in, in building your business.

Right.

Sarah St: Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think the more you do something, the better you get at it. So,

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and this is one of those things where you’re going to get, you know, that consistency of, you know, I think that was probably one of the biggest things for me was having a weekly podcast for me was my way of being consistently thinking about business every week. I had to keep thinking about it. And I had to think about it.

Multiple times to think about it when I was doing the podcast. And I also had to think about it when I was editing the podcast. And then I had to think about it again when I was posting the podcast. Right. So it’s like one of those things where you’ve got this like regular thing in your calendar. And that doesn’t necessarily have to be a weekly podcast.

It could be a daily podcast. It could [00:28:00] be a monthly podcast. It could be, you know, a quarterly podcast, but whatever that consistency is, you kind of have to, or actually that’s a question, is it better to be consistent on your podcast or, or can you just put one out when you get. When you get it ready.

Sarah St: Oh, yeah, I would definitely be consistent. Uh, well, and like when you’re first launching a podcast, I recommend launching with anywhere from three to 10 episodes right out the gate at the same time, just so, uh, people are more likely to binge it, get used to it and want to, you know, and more likely to subscribe, but then consistently putting out, you know, if you have a weekly show, which is what most people do.

Um, Some people do bi weekly, some people do two, three, five, seven episodes a week, but that’s very rare. So usually it’s a weekly, um, and being consistent with putting it out every week because otherwise people will forget about you or they’ll be [00:29:00] like, oh this person Podcast hasn’t put out anything in a month or something.

So I’m just going to unsubscribe and you know, that kind of thing.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. If they don’t see your episode pop in when they normally are supposed to see that episode, then they’re going to find something else. Right.

Sarah St: exactly.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. So it’s time for you to get sold. So tell me what’s exciting in your business right now. Yes,

Sarah St: Yeah. So I just recently launched the podcast marketing agency and, and yes, that is what it’s called. I just figured it’s good for SEO. Um, And basically helping podcasters grow market and monetize their show, give more publicity, even PR. Um, so that’s what I’m doing now as far as my business goes. And then I also have my podcast Frugalpreneur, which is five years old now.

And. Getting around 250 episodes or so, and just loving the [00:30:00] networking and connections. And I go to a lot of podcast conferences and sometimes I speak at them and I just, I just love the community so much. So, um, but yeah, so the, the. Podcasts. Any it’s in any app. If you just search frugal Purr newer or if you just go to frugal.

show, that’s the website. And then the podcast marketing agency is podcast marketing. agency.

Tim Melanson: That’s awesome, man. I was going to say, how do we contact you? You got that right in there, didn’t you?

Sarah St: Oh yeah. Oh, and then also actually I launched a free online community, um, that, uh, for, for, for, Growing and, and monetizing and marketing your show kind of just, uh, I have a couple of guests experts per month come on and whatnot. And the link to that is amp my pod. com, amp my pod. com, usually business

Tim Melanson: Cool. So is there a certain type of [00:31:00] podcast or a certain type of person that would be, you know, better suited to work with you?

Sarah St: podcasts. Um, basically any kind of podcast where you are making money either directly or indirectly from your podcast, like it’s part of your business model versus say, like a hobby podcast. Wouldn’t really make sense to work with me because like, if you’re just doing the podcast for fun and not making money off of it, um, like it, it might make sense to join my free community, but, um, but yeah, I mainly work with business podcasters.

Tim Melanson: I suppose unless they’re really excited about spending money on their podcast that they’re not making back

Sarah St: Yeah, I mean, I guess there are some of those people out there.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean people spend money on hobbies hey, I’m a musician geez

Sarah St: yeah, yeah, true.

Tim Melanson: Right on cool, so can you just share your links one more time before we go

Sarah St: Sure. So the podcast, you can go to [00:32:00] frugal. show. Um, the free community is amp my pod. com and the podcast agency is podcastmarketing. agency.

Tim Melanson: cool And what’s the best way to get in touch with you directly

Sarah St: Yeah. So, um, I mean, I’m on all the socials at. The Sarah St. John Sarah with an H and then St is ST. Um, because I guess at Sarah St. John was already taken. So I had to put the, the in front of it. Um, or you can just email me at Sarah at amp my pod. com.

Tim Melanson: some? Thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Sarah This has been a lot of fun

Sarah St: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. To the, to the listeners, make sure you subscribe, rate, and comment. And we’ll see you next time on the Work at Home Rockstar podcast.