Lucas Root – SGIC Consulting

Tim Melanson: Hello and welcome to today’s episode. The work at home rockstar podcast.

Very special episode today, we have the founders, he’s a founder, he’s a speaker. He is an author. Uh, his business is S G I C consulting, and he helps giant companies, large multi-million multi-billion dollar brands to execute their processes in their business. And you know what we are trying to think. What does that mean?

Well, in the music analogy, he’s the roadie for a giant company. He makes sure that the instruments are all in tune before. Artist gets on stage. And, uh, so that’s exactly what he does. So welcome Lucas, root to the show. Lucas. You ready to rock?

Lucas Root: Am I am ready to rock. Perfect.

Tim Melanson: Okay. Well, we got a lot of things to fit in here, so let’s start off first on a good note.

So tell me a story of success in your business. So we can be inspired by.

Lucas Root: Hmm. Um, probably my favorite story of success is actually getting started. Uh, you know, all of you have, have heard this and many of you have in fact lived it when you decide it’s time to go out on your own, you don’t know if you’re gonna succeed.

You, you leap off a ledge and you start falling and you’re like, what’s gonna happen here. Am I. I’m not gonna am I gonna go splat on the ground? And I, I went through that process too. We all do. Um, my, uh, it, what kicked it off is my, you know, I was 17 years on wall street. My wife sat down with me over my anniversary dinner in 2012 and looked at me across the table and said, you look like death and, uh, wall street will do that to you.

Um, you look like death and thank God she did cuz. She was right. I looked like death. I looked horrible. Um, and uh, we took that dinner that night instead of being all romantic and, you know, eye gazing and holding hands and sniffing roses. We took that dinner that night and started planning our future together.

And perhaps that was the most romantic thing we could have done. And part of what we planned was taking that leap. Um, getting ourselves ready to, to jump off the cliff, move away from a full-time job, move away from that guaranteed paycheck and, and launched my own consulting company in 2016, we sort of realized that dream.

Um, I, I took that leap. I was ready to go. Um, and I started making phone calls. Um, And, uh, if you all have done dials for dollars, uh, you, you know exactly what I’m talking about. You’re not sure who’s gonna become your customer. Um, and I called 400 people over the course of four months. So a hundred people a month, which is a lot of people.

Yeah. Um, and I landed a project. I landed a project with the Pokemon company.

Tim Melanson: Wow.

Lucas Root: That was your first one. They were my first client. Wow. um, and, and I gotta say, and, and here’s this, the story of success. Isn’t just, I landed a project with the Pokemon company. The, the real story of success here is how did I get it?

Um, you, you don’t call the Pokemon company and say, Hey, hire me for, for, you know, executing your processes. Hire me as a roadie. Um, they, they, they don’t have. They don’t have a person. They can transfer you to, to answer that phone call . Um, the story of success here is actually meeting somebody at a conference years before in building a relationship with him, despite having no idea how that relationship was gonna pan out.

Cuz when I met him and when I started building that relationship, I didn’t plan on becoming a consultant. I didn’t, I didn’t plan on working for the Pokemon company and he couldn’t have hired me even if I did. Um, I built that relationship. Just because, um, that’s the kind of thing I do. I build relationships with people because why not?

I like people. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s what created that success there. He was in a position to hire somebody, to do some really cool things, to be his roadie. Um, just at the same time is I was looking for somebody to pick me up while I was leaping off a cliff. . Wow.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. The best time to build your network is before you

Lucas Root: need it.

Right. that’s right. Best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.

Tim Melanson: Yep. Yeah. Wow. That’s a, that is an inspiring story. So, I mean, you know, there’s a, probably a lot of fear and self-doubt and all that stuff going through your mind during all that stuff. And how did you get through it all?

Lucas Root: Yeah. Um, you know, momentum.

The answer really is momentum. Do the first call and it’s not as bad as you think. And then do the second call and it’s even less as bad as you think you get. No, um, nobody gets a yes on their first call. Well, almost nobody, uh, but just do it. Call somebody and say, I’m, I’m hanging up my shingle. I’m I’m gonna be a consultant.

Do you or anyone, you know, Need my services. I’m, I’m hanging up my shingle. I want to be a, I want to be a solo guitarist and I, I want to get up in, in the bar and start playing. Do you or anyone, you know, wanna hire a solo guitarist? Um, yeah. And, and they’re gonna say no and that’s okay. And then momentum carries you forward.

Tim Melanson: Think, uh, I, I mean, I’ve been in that boat too. I’ve made lots of dials for dollars and, uh, and in the process. Yeah. You, every time, every time you sit down, uh, it’s scary and you think that, you know, but the worst thing that happens to you is you get to know mm-hmm, sorry. No, I guess the worst thing you, you get is somebody in a bad mood who gives you some really bad attitude, but even that.

It’s not as bad. I mean, I’ve been through it and you get off the phone and in fact, actually you kind of get more riled up I think, you know, it’s kinda like, oh, you know, and then, you know, whatever happened, you kind of just brush it off and you make the next call even more determined. Right? Mm-hmm

Lucas Root: um, I read a quote a long time ago that said anticipation is the purest form of pleasure.

Um, now in response to that, I just want to point out that I like my pleasure to be dirty, not. But on the flip side, anticipation is also the most powerful version of pain that you’re going to have when you’re entering into this process. The anticipation is so much worse than the reality. Yep.

Tim Melanson: absolutely.

Well, okay. Now, so speaking of which, I mean, we do talk about the bad note here too. So, you know, in that process, I’m sure there was a lot of things that didn’t go as planned. So what would be like the biggest mistake you made and how can we either avoid it or

Lucas Root: recover? Hmm. Um, yes, and such an easy mistake to avoid.

Um, and recovery was not easy. Recovery cost me a lot of money. Even now, um, biggest mistake I made was not making sure that I had my bills covered for at least the first two years. So Pokemon company is a crazy powerful company with lots and lots of money. They’re very, very, um, um, profitable. But my first year with them, they paid me $8,000.

And I don’t know how much you pay in rent, but $8,000 does not cover my rent. not having my bills covered, you know, not having savings, not having something to make sure that I had some, you know, my bills, my food, my, my car, the plane tickets that I needed to, to, to buy, to go to the Pokemon company, to the consulting I was doing.

Um, not having my bills covered was a really big. Um, and it hurt, it hurt. Uh, it hurt my wallet. It still hurts my wallet. I, I actually only just finished paying off my credit card debt a about a year and a half ago from that.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Okay. So two years. And, and I think that the guidance often says six months.

Um, but I agree with you. I think two years is better. I, I know I had around that when I first started my business. Uh, so. Because you can extend that. Right. You can always extend it. Mm-hmm but if something happens and it doesn’t happen for you within six months, you can’t, what do you do then? Right.

Lucas Root: Yeah.

You, well, what you do is you end up in a lot of trouble with your credit cards or you go back to work. Um, I did the former and, and I don’t regret it, but, but good goodness. It was a lot of pain .

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And, uh, and a lot of it, it just, it just builds onto that downward spiral of everything. Right? Yeah. Now all of a sudden, you’re you, you’re stressed out.

You’re making calls desperate, you know, All those things start to happen, right? Yeah. Whereas when you have a nice cushy cushion, you can now start to choose who you’re saying, you know, who you’re calling instead of just calling even the guy that you really don’t even wanna work for. Right.

Lucas Root: Yep. I did some of that.

I, I, I took some jobs that I really didn’t want to have to take. Um, another piece of that, that people probably aren’t thinking about, and you should, uh, if you’re living off your credit cards, you’re probably not paying taxes on your. That was true for me. Um, which means that you might get to a point where you break even, you might get to a point where you can afford to, to stop taking jobs.

You don’t wanna take and start being strategic about making sure that your growth is the growth that you actually want. Uh, but now you’re not just behind on credit card. You’re also behind on taxes and, and we don’t mess with the IRS.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. And CRA here in Canada. Yeah, I happened to me too. I made that mistake as well.

And uh, yeah, they, they don’t, they don’t give you much leeway. It’s not like a, a lot .

Lucas Root: Um, alright. It’s not a business loan and they are not happy to make it. no, no, they’re,

Tim Melanson: they’re pretty, they’re pretty straightforward. No, it needs to be paid right now. Really? What do you mean? Can I have no so, yeah, I, I agree.

And I mean, I think that that’s another, another big. Big thing, like you gotta number one, have money, you know, in advance so that you’re, you’re, you know, you can support yourself for a couple years, but also make sure that of the income that you’re bringing in. I’m not sure what the rules are in the states.

I know I take about 30% and put it into an account and it just

Lucas Root: sits there. And 30 percent’s a good number.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. I think you probably will pay less than that in, you know, when it’s all said and done, if you get a good accountant, mm-hmm, paying less than that is better. Having to actually come outta your pocket and , you know, fund something.

It’s just like getting a tax return at the end of the year for people who are employed, you know,

Lucas Root: that’s right. Whatever is actually it’s got money. Yeah. It’s fantastic. Yeah,

Tim Melanson: exactly. Now let’s talk a little bit about the band. I mean, you you’ve, you’ve got a team now. You’ve got, you’ve got lots of things going on.

And so how do you approach, you know, finding the right people to be in your band, finding the right skill sets, you know, what, what’s your, what’s your general

Lucas Root: approach to all that. Fun question. Woo. So when you first start out, you take what you can get, you take the jobs, you can get, you take the help that you can get anyone who’s, who’s capable of picking up a shovel.

You’re you’re gonna go find somewhere for them to dig a hole. Anyone who’s capable of picking up a guitar pick you’re like, uh, can you play bass? No, not really. Well, do you wanna try? maybe it works out. Maybe it doesn’t. And um, I have me personally, I have nostalgia for. I like that process. I like helping people, mentoring people through the process of becoming what I need them to be, except when it didn’t work out that way.

Cuz sometimes they don’t become what I need them to be. Um, and that’s still true now, some jobs, uh, and you know, in addition to consulting, I also own some, some. Some physical retail businesses, uh, some jobs there. Isn’t good training out there. There aren’t people that are, that are lined up for success in that they, they, you know, there’s no college degree to be a, uh, a carpenter.

Right. Um, and, and everybody’s got an arm and theoretically, everybody can swing a hammer, but that doesn’t mean everyone’s a good carpenter.

You can pick up a guitar pick. Almost everyone can pick up a guitar pick. That doesn’t mean you’re gonna be a good guitar player, bass player. So choosing the members of your band, you start out choosing whoever will show up. Whoever’s willing to stand in that place. Whoever’s willing to pick up a guitar pick and strum on that base.

Um, and a as you get to the point where people are paying attention to you and starting to actually pay you for your gigs, instead of just tolerating you standing there, um, you have to also start. Strategic about who it is that’s filling in those, those spots. You can’t just have somebody who wants to smack on drums, playing your drums.

You gotta be able to make music at first it’s decent music, and then it goes to good music. And then you have to, you have to start making decisions about what’s gonna arrive at great for you. And I’m in that process. I’m in that process now I’m in that process all the time. It, it, it never really ends. I, I don’t, I don’t think you get to a point in, in growth where you say, eh, I don’t have to worry about it anymore.

It just happens now. yeah. Um, but I’m, I’m in that process now I’m in the process of, of pruning out some of the people who were willing to just stand up on stage with me. Um, and, and helping them, you know, with grace and, and gratefulness and thanks and love, helping them find something else that maybe is a better fit for them than holding a guitar pick.

And. Jamming on a base.

Tim Melanson: That’s a really good, that’s a really good analogy. And I mean, it, it really does fit well, cuz I mean, sometimes you bring someone into your band or into your, your circle and you know, they may not really have all the skills that you need right away, but they pick it up, you know, and, and other times you have people that do have the skills that you need and.

Don’t work out for some, whatever reason. Right. Um, but I, I like, I mean, I like your, your attitude towards it. It’s like, you know, just, just give it a try, just, just get going and, you know, you’ll know, you’ll know. Uh, I suppose maybe then the next thing is you probably have some pretty, uh, good measuring and firing techniques as well to make sure that you’re pruning the people properly.

Lucas Root: I am. I am pretty good at, I, I started out pretty good at that. I did a lot of, um, sort of team design when I was on wall street. I was on the back end of mergers and acquisitions. So I was actually helping people decide who was gonna stay and who was not gonna stay. I, I got pretty good at that before leaving fortunately, and that’s a transferable skill or at least one that I have needed and continued to maintain.

Um, but let me let you in on some secrets. One of the most valuable things that I’ve ever discovered. One of the most surest signs of success and nothing is a silver bullet. There’s no magic. There is no guaranteed sign of success, but one of the surest signs of success is that people participated in a team activity when they were in high school.

So team sports, um, a band, a chorus, Uh, a cheer squad. They had to have participated in a team activity in high school. Um, that is a sure sign of success to me that those people much, much higher probability that they’re gonna pick up the skills or if they have the skills they’re gonna use. ’em well,

Tim Melanson: wow. I really love that. And I’m, I’m happy because I encourage my kids to go into deep sports as well. but, but Hey, you know what? That’s a, that’s a really good insight for. So team sports in high school. And are you allowed to ask that you probably are aren’t you?

Yeah. A lot of people even put it on the resume, right? Yep.

Lucas Root: And it’s funny that, um, drama too. I mean, you know, if you were, if you were on, if you were in the play, you know that that’s a team activity like you, you can’t go up and be a great actor all by yourself. That’s just not how it works. You gotta work well with the team.

Tim Melanson: So great news for musicians. If you’ve been in a band, you might get a job

Lucas Root: with Lucas yes, absolutely. Right

Tim Melanson: on. So let’s talk a little bit about, uh, you know, keeping the hat full, you know, making sure that you got some positive cash flow going on. So what’s your approach to, to that, cuz I mean, you know, there are some times when you might get a little bit behind, uh, you know, what, what, what do you do when that happens?

Lucas Root: Hmm. I love it. So, um, let’s go back to. The, the, the real win that I brought up and that was making a friend with somebody. I had no idea they were gonna be success. Um, you know, that they were gonna be a, a, any sort of success for me in the future. Um, the person who ended up hiring me at the Pokemon company.

So I. I do a lot of work right now on what I call pipeline management. And I think anybody who’s in a band should be doing the same thing. You should be meeting the event organizers, and you should be getting to know the bar managers and the stage managers in your city. Um, and, and becoming friends with them.

And, and I don’t just mean being friendly with them. I mean, becoming friends with them, learn their kids’ names. Um, show up to their baseball games, donate to their charities, buy them beer. Not because you want to get gigs. You. You do, you do want to get gigs, but because, um, people buy from people they know like, and trust, and you need to become friends with these people so that when they’re buying, when they’re, when they’re buying a band for their stage, when they’ve got an opening, you’re the person they call because they already know you.

They already like you. They already trust you. Wow. And I spend a huge amount of effort doing that.

Tim Melanson: And I guess the other thing is that it can be genuine too, because these are people that you like as well. And these are people that align with you. So why not have friends that you align with right.

Lucas Root: Yeah. I mean, they’re in your industry.

You, you already have a common language and shared interests and goals. Um, you know, they’re, they’re gonna help you understand things that you might not have noticed. They’re gonna, they’re already looking at the other bands, your competitors, they’re paying attention to the things that are working.

They’re gonna see when the audiences are responding to something new and how that response went. And when you’re hanging out with them at their kids’ baseball game. They’re gonna be talking about it. Not because they want you to know, but because that’s what they talk about. Cuz they’re in the industry, these are good friends to have, even if they never call you and they will call you.

Tim Melanson: Wow. Love it. Love it. So now speaking of, you know, fans and, and getting on stage and all that stuff. So how do you, uh, like how do you approach number one, you know, getting fans in the first place, but also what do you say when you got ’em.

Lucas Root: I love that. Hmm. Fans are amazing. Fans are really important. Um, for those of you who don’t know, you think that you are your biggest salesman, but you’re not.

Your best fans, the rabid fans, the first, probably 5% of people that stand in the front of the line. Those are actually your biggest salesman. So take your fans very seriously, cuz they matter. They make your SU they make your success. Um, the best way to get fans is by listening. What do they want? Now go back to the stage manager, cuz they’re gonna tell you some of the things that the audience wants now, the audience is not the same thing as your fans, you have an audience, the stage manager’s gonna bring that audience in.

That’s what the bar does. That’s what the stage does. Um, that’s what the event does. They bring the audience in an audience and a fan is not the same thing. You have an O an opportunity when you’re in front of that audience. When you’re up there on that stage to convert. The audience into fans. So number one, make sure that you’re in front of audiences regularly.

Like I am right now with you tip I’m in front of your audience, make sure that you’re in front of audiences regularly. Number two, when you’re in front of the audience, listen to them. Listen to what they need, listen to what they want, make sure that you are delivering to their expectations. And that gives you not a fan, but a chance for a fan.

Cause if you don’t deliver their expectations, you’ve lost your chance. You’re done. It doesn’t matter how awesome you are. It’s their expectations that gives you a chance. And then. Number three, be excellent at something at something doesn’t even have to be the thing they’re expecting. As soon as you’ve delivered their expectations, you can then display your excellence at your something.

Wow.

Tim Melanson: So good. And so humbling too, because I think, you know, especially in the music area, like, I mean, if you’re playing to a large crowd to a large audience, it’s like an, you automatically sort of assume. That’s a good thing that, that, that they’re fans, but that’s not necessarily true. The audience may be there for some other reason.

Right? Mm-hmm and now you have an opportunity to make them your fan. Uh, you know, I guess the, the difference would be, you know, if you’ve got two followers in your, uh, in your Facebook group or whatever it is, your, your band page, but you’re playing to a large audience. Well, then you’re not doing your job.

You’re not, you’re not getting fans right. Wow. Wow. Really, really, really cool distinction between the two of those things. And now what, what about, um, you know, so let’s just say that you are in that position and you’re getting on stage, you’ve got a large, large audience for whatever reason, but none of them are your fans.

How do you, what, what is your main thing to convert them? Like, is there something you can say or, or do.

Lucas Root: Yes. Um, and I love this question. Um, this question actually applies to me very, very well. So as, as somebody who’s been working with the Pokemon company for seven years, I get to use the name, the Pokemon company it’s in my social media, it’s on my LinkedIn profile.

Um, my. Audience fluctuates dramatically. Right now I have, I don’t know, 15,000 followers on Instagram. I’ve been as high as 30,000. I’ve been as low as 10,000. It happens actually fairly regularly because using the word Pokemon gives me access to a very, very wide audience. And these people are like following absolutely everybody in the world that has the word Pokemon in it, which I am allowed to have.

But I don’t actually do anything with Pokemon on my profiles, on my public platforms. So the word Pokemon gives me an audience, but, but there, those are not necessarily my fans. So I have, I have had to spend the last four years while I’ve been dealing with this massive shift in people that are following me and trying to really understand what I just shared with you guys is my understanding, my realization, my learning that the 24,000 followers, the 30,000 followers that I had.

I’m like, wow, I’m doing really well. I got 30,000 followers. This is amazing. No. They’re just audience and they’re there for something other than me, they’re there for the word Pokemon and I’m being very vulnerable here. um, cuz it’s, it’s hard for somebody who has a lot of followers to stand up in front of you and say, by the way, all those followers that are following me, they’re there for one thing and one thing only, and that thing is only parallel connection to me.

Yeah. I’m I’m being vulnerable. I’m telling you guys the truth here. Um, I have an opportunity. Every time somebody comes and follows me for the word Pokemon, I have an opportunity to impact them in some way. First I have to deliver their expectation. And unfortunately, in a lot of cases, I can’t, I cannot deliver on their expectation.

I’m not out playing Pokemon, go in streaming that I’m not in Pokemon card game, you know, the TCG card game. Um, Tournaments and taking pictures of it and posting it and talking about it. I’m not opening up packs and showing people what I’m getting out of those packs. That’s not what I do. And so for a large percentage of the people who find me, because of the word, the Pokemon company or Pokemon, I cannot deliver on their expectations.

I’m not capable of it. It’s not part of my platform. It’s not why I’m there. And that’s a shame. And, and for a while, that was really hard for me to accept. Now I have come to accept it. Because social media, it’s really easy for them to just walk away. But if it were a physical stage and I was up there because they wanted to see someone who can talk about Pokemon, let me tell you something.

I would prepare for weeks ahead of time for an entire hour of talking just about Pokemon. I would go to tournaments. I would go watch streaming. I would start playing Pokemon go, which by the way I don’t, but I do play the card game to make sure that I’m ready when I get up on that stage, because they’ve paid, they’ve gone out of their way.

It’s not easy for them to just turn around and walk away. And their expectations actually matter a lot more than it does on social. I would make sure that the first thing I do is deliver to their expectations now, whether or not I do a good job of that depends on how well prepared I am. And, you know, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll go down that road when we get there.

Right. Um,

Tim Melanson: So I think for, for someone who’s listening, it would be sort of like, uh, I, I think, I think for the most part in, in a business, if you’re starting a business, you probably have a decent idea of what the expectations are of the clients that you’re going after. Mm-hmm , um, But there’s also a little bit of humbleness in there too, cuz maybe you don’t you know, maybe you don’t maybe that and if you are struggling then you probably don’t really have an idea of what their expectations are, but I guess that would be the, the, the homework would be to figure out what it is that they really want.

And then figure out a way to position yourself in a way that you can offer that. Or you can at least give them the impression that you know, what you’re doing and that you can, you know, solve their problem, whatever that

Lucas Root: happens to be. Right. Yeah, absolutely. So going to the band metaphor, let’s say you’re a classical violinist and you’ve been given an opportunity to play, to, to warm up, to play the warm up for a medal concert.

Really, really, really big disconnect there, but is it impossible for that to work out? No, it’s not a classical violinist who does great preparation could actually get up there in front of a metal crowd and knock their socks off. It could be done. So. Meditate on that for a minute. Think of yourself in exactly that scenario.

You are the classical violinist and you have a chance to warm up for a metal audience. And every single time you’re in front of an audience that you don’t know their expectations, put yourself in that brain state. What do I have to do to meet their expectations first? Yeah, and then be excellent. Yeah, love

it.

Tim Melanson: Love it. And I think that’s kind of the, the key is that so many people make the story about them. Look at how good I am. You know, I’m just gonna do my thing. I’m just gonna do what I do and not really worrying about what it is the people in the audience want to hear. And I mean, you know, this is a great topic because you know, every once in a while, We do get opportunities to speak to large audiences for whatever reason.

And oftentimes you might blow it because really you just talk about what you wanna talk about rather than focusing on the fact that this large audience is here for something it’s not me, they’re here for something. So how can I put myself in a position where I can talk to that audience about what they want to hear?

And then some of them may end up following you because there could be some, some connections there,

Lucas Root: right? And that. I love it. You, you, you put that so well together, Tim, thank you. And that right there is when you have converted audience into fan, those few people who have decided first, you, you got the audience to accept you.

The, the metal people. Who are there for metal, even the classical violinist who does an amazing job, most of them are not gonna become fans. Most of them are not, but you met their expectation. They’re not gonna boo. You, they’re not gonna throw rotten tomatoes at you. Right. You met their expectation, but a few of them are gonna be like, that was amazing using and what are they gonna do next?

What are they gonna do next? You know, the answer. They’re gonna follow you. They’re gonna like you, they’re gonna share your stuff, but they’re also gonna call up their family and friends and say, I just saw the most amazing frigging thing in the entire world. You have got to go see the YouTube video of this right now.

Right now. I’m sending it to you. Have you started it yet? I’m sending it. Have you started, are you listening? Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. When I say that your raving fans are your best salesman.

Tim Melanson: Agree a hundred percent it’s time for your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your

Lucas Root: business. Um, so, uh, I’m, I’m actually doing something that I’m very, very excited about this classical violinist who’s up on the metal stage and they start playing classical.

If the people in the audience know ahead of time that this person knows what they’re there for, and they know that they’re gonna deliver expectations. They’re gonna give that person silence. They’re gonna give them space to warm up and enter into that space because they know that that classical violinist is gonna play hard and they’re gonna break some strings while they’re really sawing on their violin and the audience will meet their expectations and that space that they’ve given them to come into that stage.

The name for that space is credibility. The name for that space is credibility. It’s true. Really? Truly. I’m gonna give you your space to meet my expectation, cuz I believe that you can. I believe that you will, but not everybody has that space. Not everybody has that credibility when they’re given an audience, when they’re given an opportunity.

And I’m doing an event, uh, in about a month, I’m doing an event where I’m gonna help you understand what credibility is, all of the form, like all of the base. Of credibility, understand what it is, understand how to put it together in your life, understand how to be the most credible version of yourself.

I’m doing it in partnership with a guy named Mitchell levy. He’s an amazing guy. He actually has a Ted talk out there. It was the, um, it was in the top 30 most Ted talks watch last year. Um, so go look up that Ted talk. I would love it. If you guys came. And listened in. And if you do, I’ll make sure that I talk about that classical violinist in front of a metal concert.

Tim Melanson: So how do we find out more about that then?

Lucas Root: Um, go to the website, ultimate credibility, bootcamp.com. Very simple, ultimate credibility, bootcamp.com. Um, and I would love to see you all there in including you, Tim. Awesome.

Tim Melanson: Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Luke Lucas, this has been a.

Lucas Root: This was a lot of fun.

I really enjoyed this. Thanks, Tim.

Tim Melanson: Cool. And to the listeners, make sure you subscribe right in comment. We’ll see you next time.