Supercharging Business Success with Legal Expertise and AI Integration: An Interview with Matthew Fornaro

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the Work at Home Rockstar Podcast. Excited for today’s episode. We are talking to Matthew Fornero and uh, what he does is he helps small and medium sized businesses with their legal needs. So I’m excited to hear more about that. Um, but before that, are we ready to rock Matthew?

Matthew Fornaro: Um, let’s go Tim. Thanks for having me.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. So we always start off here on a good note. So tell me a story of success in your business that we can be inspired by.

Matthew Fornaro: Well, you know, most of my business is helping other small and medium sized businesses with their legal needs, whether it’s litigation or transactional. So, thankfully, I’ve got a lot of success stories of helping a lot of businesses. Um, 1. That I’m working on right now, that’s kind of coming to fruition is.

Helping I helped a entrepreneur found a business draft all those business documents incorporate. And work with a software development company to come up with a new app. And we actually trademarked the app. And [00:01:00] now the app is in like it’s a beta version. So it’s actually got thousands of followers. So maybe it’s going to take off.

It’s going to be in the app store very soon. So very proud about that. I’m very glad I could help them out. So that’s just an example of something new that’s going on. That’s kind of cutting edge.

Tim Melanson: A question, kind of a follow up to that. When someone’s looking at legal needs for their business, is this something that people will tend to reach out to you before they have issues? Or are they normally reaching out sort of like reactively when something, you know, when you get sued, when something happens?

Matthew Fornaro: It’s combination of both preferably. Obviously, I’d rather have them come to me before they even get into business. So we can set everything up correctly and make sure they’re on the right path. But at the same time, a lot of people come to me after they’re already in business and they’re facing some kind of issue.

So it’s a mix of both. My preference would be, I’d like to have everyone come to me before they start their business out. But, you know, I’m glad to jump in [00:02:00] anywhere and help out a business owner.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I imagine it’s one of those things where you, you don’t know you need it until you need it or, or you don’t realize how much you need it until you need it. Right.

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, cool. So now along with a good note though, you know, sometimes things don’t go as planned and I mean, hey You probably have tons of those stories for your clients But what about you like has there been something like a mistake that you’ve made along your journey that we can learn from

Matthew Fornaro: Sure. Um, one of the things, you know, I used to work at, uh, a couple of big AMLO 200 law firms, and then I went out and started my own law firm. 1 of the things that I made a mistake on when I 1st started out is because I didn’t really. Right now, I have a pretty good command of business and how to do business and all kinds of things.

I’m going to help other business people. When I started out 9 years ago, I didn’t so 1 of the mistakes I did was I wasted a lot [00:03:00] of money. In advertising in web stuff and other stuff that really didn’t pan out that I’d love to have that money back right now and do correct things with it. So, um, it’s kind of a learning process for me.

It was kind of also trial and error. So, that’s a mistake I made was I laid out way too much money on that stuff for unproven, uh, solicitation advertising business intake that didn’t work out that, you know, obviously now I know. So,

Tim Melanson: excellent Yeah, and that’s great advice My business is actually I build websites and so one of the first things that i’m asking people when they’re starting their Their website is I ask them questions about their business and whether they have success You You know, because you’re right. I mean, people will spend a whole bunch of money on a website just because they think they need it, but they don’t even really have their idea sort of like ironed out yet.

And they don’t have any success behind it as well. So you can waste a ton of money on that. Uh, you know, up front [00:04:00] when that money could be used better later on in the, in the journey. But, um, I’m wondering, like, how would you have done it differently if you were to start over again, though?

Matthew Fornaro: I would have saved that money and, uh, instead of use it for print media and all kinds of other crazy stuff that I use it for, I would, uh, Have used it in very specified. And that’s how I would have used it as opposed to sporting it out. I’ve done it on a very. Uh, refined and targeted SEO campaign to try to get new business.

Tim Melanson: Would you even have built a website or would you have done it on social media?

Matthew Fornaro: Um, well, I’ve done, I mean, I’ve done both over the course of time. Um, I think the website is for me is probably the most. I mean, I have all the social media too, but most of the engagement takes place with people going on my website to figure out stuff or whatever. So, I would, I mean, I do [00:05:00] the social media.

Obviously you have to. But also, I mean, the website is the main item that if you got to take them all away and have 1 left, I would have the website left.

Tim Melanson: Awesome. And so, was it more or less, like, uh, you overpaid for the website in the beginning or, or,

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah, I overpaid for a bunch of stuff that I shouldn’t have done and, you know, it’s all hindsight now and I wish I wouldn’t have done it. But, you know, it is what it is.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. On the other hand, you learned a lot from it, right?

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah, I know now what not to do. So, I mean, I guess you can put a price and a benefit on that. So, I mean, I learned. It’s not like I, you know, it’s not like I did that and I still, I didn’t figure out what to do. I finally figured out what to do. So

Tim Melanson: Yeah. We do learn more from our mistakes, and that’s, that’s kind of the reason why I like to focus a little bit on the bad note, because, you know, you, we’re talking to people that have [00:06:00] now hit those success levels, and many people don’t even get off the ground because they’re too worried about making a mistake, instead of make those mistakes, right, and keep moving forward, right?

Matthew Fornaro: yeah, I mean, if you don’t, you know, if you don’t try, you’re never going to learn and you’re never going to do. So you got to try.

Tim Melanson: That’s right. So speaking of learning, I’m wondering, you know, what do you do to get good at what you do? Like, for example, have you ever hired a coach? Like, do you hire people? Do you, you know, belong to a mastermind? Any of those things?

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah. As far as developing my own, the actual business side of my business, I have. Well, I’ll tell you what I did, which didn’t work out, which I guess could also go back to your original question. You asked me if I used to do a lot of networking, like, in person pre obviously, pre COVID, even whatever, like, networking and I used to belong to, you know, I used to belong to a B and I group. And I [00:07:00] did all that stuff and that’s another thing that over the long term didn’t really work out for me, particularly for going to, like, for me, bar functions, like, different, uh, state bar functions and stuff because. You show up and it’s you show up with 6 other guys or girls who do the same thing as you, and you can’t really distinguish yourself or do whatever because your competition standing right next to you.

So, what I did was I, you know, I don’t use the term pivot, but that’s kind of what I did was I went away from group networking and I went towards a more focused individual relationship model. And I have a business advisor who helps me focus on developing relationships with individuals only versus try to infiltrate a group and then try to get to the individuals there.

We just [00:08:00] go after the individuals to begin with, and it’s much more effective and it’s the results are much better.

Tim Melanson: Nice. Okay. Yeah. And. But nowadays, you know, a lot of these networking groups are on zoom and so they’re not necessarily in person. Do you think that would have changed things a little bit? Would you still not do it or what do you think?

Matthew Fornaro: Um, well, it’s a little better because, you know, it’s not as much of a time commitment versus having to drive somewhere and try to, you know, eat breakfast and drive back or eat lunch or whatever, but it’s still, for me, the same, the same negative effect. There’s still you and a bunch of your competitors there where you can’t really differentiate yourself or.

You’re in a group where, you know, you get an hour a week to be, hey, I’m on zoom. How you doing? And, uh, you can’t really build relationships that way with just like a 1 minute sound bite. You got to actually be able to talk to [00:09:00] someone and interact with them. So, I don’t really think it would have changed. I think it’s just.

All it’s a less time consuming resource consuming setting now that it used to be.

Tim Melanson: It might’ve taken you longer to figure that out because you wouldn’t have been wasting as much time.

Matthew Fornaro: yes,

Tim Melanson: Right, right on. Okay, cool. So now what about your jam room? So, I mean, we’ve talked a little bit about your background and stuff like that. Tell me a little bit about your home office and what you think are the important aspects that people need to keep in mind when they’re actually designing their home office.

Matthew Fornaro: sure. So, you know, I have. Both a traditional office and a home office because. In my line of work, being an attorney, some people really, really want to meet with you in person still and do all kinds of stuff. So I have my home or I have my. Quote unquote, real office. It’s actually. Less than 5 minutes away from my home office.

So it’s pretty good. That’s where I do like, meet with people or other things like that. But most of my work is done, [00:10:00] you know, in my war room here in my home office. So, you know, I mean, I guess the underlying success point of a home office is you got to make it subjectively customized to you to be productive.

So, what works for me may not work for you and works for you may not work for me, but what works for me does work for me. So, I’ve refined it, you know, I used to do a lot more time in the office prior to cobit and then once cobit came, you know, I pretty much saw what a waste of going to the office was versus I can just operate here.

So, I mean, you know, I have, for my purposes, I mean, I have. You know, I have a 3 screen set up if you want to get into technical vernacular. I mean, I have 3 screens. I have all my media, all my stuff. I got everything set up. I got, you know, I’ve got, uh, [00:11:00] you know, Alexa. I’ve got Google. I’ve got all that stuff set up all my stuff ready to go.

And, you know, I just make sure all my technologies at my fingertips and I’m able to use it to the best of my ability. It’s like, ergonomically correct and. You know, I mean, it’s better than any in 21 years. I’ve been an attorney. My setup here is better than any setup. I had any law firm in the office. For productivity purposes,

Tim Melanson: Wow. So you’re not sparing any expense in the home office perspective.

Matthew Fornaro: no, I mean, because it’s, you know, I mean, look, I mean, you know, everyone goes into business, you know, to hopefully be successful and make money. So, in order to be successful and make money, I have to, you have to invest in your business. So, obviously, making sure I have the best. Stuff is, um, you know, part of what I got to do it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly. If you’re being held back by, you know, [00:12:00] ergonomics, you know, you’re not feeling right. Or if you don’t have the right technology at your fingertips, then yeah, you’re not going to be as productive as you could be. Right. And the good news is that this is all stuff that you can buy for your business.

You can, you know, probably have some tax breaks on it and all that stuff. Right. Right.

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah. I mean, it’s all tax deductible. I’m using it for business every day.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, right on. Cool. So now, what about, uh, what about the band? So, I’m, I’m wondering, do you, you know, have some people on staff? Like, do you subcontract? Like, how, how do you organize your, your business with the people that you’re working with?

Matthew Fornaro: Sure. So, you know, it’s a, as a moral of the story kind of thing, obviously, for other businesses when I help out other businesses, whenever I like to be part of a team that helps a business out, because the business owner you have to have. You know, ideally you want a team of professionals to help you. You want to have a business law attorney, you want to have an accountant, you want to have a banker, you want to have like a web person if you have a [00:13:00] web presence.

And so that’s how I help others as part of a team. For my team. I obviously have, you know, those people who I work with. Like, I just told you I have my own web people and my accountant and my banker and stuff like that. I, and we’ll get to when I later on, when we talk about something that’s cutting edge that we’re working on, I’m going to talk about AI.

But I have, um, you know, like a virtual paralegal who works offsite, who is actually in Minnesota. Um, I had a virtual associate who’s from North Carolina, who was actually able to phase out based on my use with AI. And then I have my actual real life human assistant slash receptionist who’s at my office in the real life office.

So that’s my team. That’s who I have. I’m actually phasing [00:14:00] in more and more technology into that to replace people.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, yeah. Aren’t we all? Uh, what was the first person that you hired into your team?

Matthew Fornaro: First person I hired was my, uh, assistant slash receptionist because I couldn’t function without That and then the rest of the people kind of came along this time went along and my business picked up and started doing. So

Tim Melanson: And how did you, uh, hand stuff off to your, to your assistant? Like, did you have playbooks and stuff like that? Like how, how did you, you know, make sure that your assistant was being productive?

Matthew Fornaro: I just make sure that I have like, very thorough instructions and a clear chain of what we do as far as. Job responsibilities and things like that. I pretty much define things and, you know, it’s not going to be, I’m not going to do something that, you know, they should be doing and vice versa. So, I kind of keep it, um, [00:15:00] you know, kind of keep it separated, but try to keep it well defined.

Tim Melanson: Nice. Yes. Awesome. Well done. Okay. So yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m looking forward to talking about your, uh, your guest solo and what you’ve got going on in your business. So tell me what’s exciting.

Matthew Fornaro: All right, so what’s exciting for me, and I, it’s timely now, hopefully, it holds up over time. If we watch this 2 years from now, it’s not like, you know, the sky was talking about something crazy. Is the integration of a, I, into my practice, it’s the, the use of a, I has increased my productivity has effectively phased out having to have, uh, a virtual associate attorney and it’s just allows me to do a lot more with my day and allows me to do it in a better way.

Thank you.

Tim Melanson: That’s amazing. Yeah, I, I think, I think a lot of people are starting to use [00:16:00] AI to be more effective in a lot of things. And you know, what laws probably. Um, a good 1, because isn’t it true that there is a fair bit of research involved in in law?

Matthew Fornaro: Yes, and that’s 1 of the things where you have to be very responsible in your use of AI because AI is a supplement. It’s not a replacement. So, you have to, I use it to supplement my work. I don’t use it to replace my work. I use it to enhance. My productivity, and I use it to supplement what I do. I don’t use it as a replacement for me doing things because. It’s not at the point where it can do that yet. I’m sure it’s going to be very close very soon, but there still has to be a human control element to the AI that I get, you know, not just I use, but anyone uses.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I agree. And because, yeah, if you were to just sort of ask it something, how would, you know, if it [00:17:00] necessarily found the right website or found some truthful data? Right?

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah, and I mean, 1 of the main things with AI is that it’s all about the prompts that you put in. And you have to be super specific, super detailed. I mean, you have to you. In order to do AI correctly, I mean, you should be putting in a paragraph or more of. Instructions to the prompts to the work to come back with.

The best possible work product, because it’s interesting because I didn’t know this until someone told me. Like, for chat, even the 4 version. It’s set is the default that it gives you answers at the level of an administrative assistant. If you ask a questions, that’s the level of answers it gives you. So you have to tell it if you.

Want to go beyond, like, an administrative assistant level, like a. You know, attorney level on board, sort of, you have to put that in. Otherwise, it’s not going to do it.

Tim Melanson: Good. [00:18:00] Yeah, yeah, I’ve been using it quite a bit too. And it’s you’re totally right. You’ve got to be really specific. I’ve gotten really frustrated with it. Already kind of just trying to ask it for stuff, and it doesn’t. It doesn’t get it unless you actually really specifically, you know, tell it the right prompts.

But on the other hand, you know, if you’re very good at explaining things, asking it for what you want, then it can do a lot of work really, really fast.

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah, no, it’s true. I mean, it’s all about the prompts. I mean, there’s websites, Facebook pages, YouTube videos, tick tock everything devoted to prompts for every industry. You can imagine. So, I mean, if you’re going to start, AI. I recommend you finding source to tell you the prompts for your industry because it’s really going to help you out.

Tim Melanson: Agree. So tell me a little bit more about what you’re doing with it then.

Matthew Fornaro: I’m using it to supplement my [00:19:00] work and using it to kind of help out what I do and make things easier as far as what I do. Like, for instance. Um, you know, like, in being an attorney in, let’s say, the litigation example court case. All right. 1 of the things you can do is you take, you can take someone’s deposition, which means you sit down.

You can either do it via zoom or in person. You ask them a series of questions. Okay. So, 1 of. An advantage or a major advantage of using AI is that instead of me having to sit now and think about, you know, what questions am I going to ask Tim? What question should I ask Tim? What’s relevant to what we’re doing?

What’s not relevant to what we’re doing? If I prompt the AI correctly, like, I feed into it. Here’s a copy of the complaint in the case. [00:20:00] Here’s a copy of the answer in the case. Here’s a copy of. Answers to questions that we already received. Here’s a copy of documents that we received. You put all that into and then you say, you are a board certified litigation attorney in the state of I’m in Florida.

So, in Florida. You are taking the deposition of Tim. Tim is the boss of whatever he, you know, went to Harvard, you know, put in all the stuff you want in there. He’s a nice guy. He gives reasonable answers. Give me a list of questions that I can ask Tim related to all the issues I just fed you in this case.

And then you put it in, and then all of a sudden it’ll produce like however many questions you want to ask you for as long as you want about our case. And that’s something where that would take me hours to put together [00:21:00] where I can have the AI help me do it in a matter of like half an hour. And then obviously I have the ultimate say.

I can edit out the questions. I can add in more questions. I can take away questions. But that just gave me a whole bunch of ideas that I couldn’t have thought of myself that would have taken me hours to do a worse job at. And that’s an example of how, as a, the litigation portion of my practice, how I use AI, because it assists me in doing things like that.

Tim Melanson: So this is a sort of like an, it’s just a value add to your practice. Now, you know, you’ve got like a team of really fast people that can help you. You know, do your work.

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah. I mean, it’s all, you know, I mean, I’m still in charge. I still have the ultimate say in everything, but it’s, you know, I mean, it’s like a merciless, it’s like the Terminator. I mean, it just goes through. It tears everything up and, you know, you just give it the right option. It will give you the whatever you want.

Tim Melanson: So do you think that this is [00:22:00] something that is being adopted by a lot of litigators and a lot of lawyers? Or is this sort of are you feeling like you’re kind of cutting edge on this

Matthew Fornaro: Um, I think people are starting to figure out that they better get on board with using a I, because if not, you’re going to get beaten by a. So, I think, you know, I don’t want to say I’m cutting edge, but, I mean, I know other attorneys who are way more cutting edge than I am, but, I mean, I would say. You know, I’m. of the curve on using it, I know a lot of people behind the curve. A lot of people are scared of it. A lot of people don’t understand it. Um, but, I mean, it’s something where. No matter what your business is, if it keeps going the way it’s going, you’re going to have to use at some point in your business.

So I’m embracing it. You know, I don’t think I’m going to be replaced by it, but, you know, it’s. That’s you know, it’s a great supplement for me.[00:23:00]

Tim Melanson: and to follow that whole thing about being replaced by it? I think that it wouldn’t take very long for someone to use AI in their business. To realize that it’s not super simple, you know, those prompts that you’re talking about, there is a bit of a craft to that and, you know, you are going to need a person like I, I think, like, I know for me, I’ve been using for a few months now, uh, pretty heavily.

And I just can’t see this totally replacing me, like, you still need a person that’s going to be able to kind of come up with all these ideas. It’s just a really, really fast. Assistant to all that stuff. So I think that the people that are afraid of being replaced, replaced by it, and that’s why they’re not using it, they’re just gonna be replaced by somebody who is using it, I think.

Matthew Fornaro: No, I totally agree. I mean, like I said, I mean, it’s able to cut out some stuff as I’ve shown in my own [00:24:00] business. Like, yes, it has replaced a person, but it’s not going to replace most people. It’s going to replace most people who don’t use it.

Tim Melanson: yeah. Will replace jobs, that’s for sure. However, those jobs, uh, those people who just got replaced could also use AI to improve their position so that they’re not being the one that’s being replaced. I mean, we could easily hire one person to manage all your AI as well, instead of you doing it yourself, you know, if you get to that point, um, but I think that what, what I’m really excited about about this whole AI thing is that I think that it’s going to increase the number of people that can start their own business and that can be self sufficient.

And that to me is exciting because, you know, I think that it, what it’s doing is it’s leveling a bit of the playing field Now you’ve got big companies that typically have a bunch of people on staff to do the work that now you can do with AI, right?

Matthew Fornaro: No, totally. I mean, [00:25:00] AI is a great democratic equalizer. As far as um, leveling the playing field for everyone.

Tim Melanson: You bet. So tell me a little bit more about the ideal person that would get the most out of working with you then.

Matthew Fornaro: Sure. So the ideal person or my ideal client is a smaller, medium sized business. Who is either starting up where I can really help them do stuff or is in business and needs to. Address their legal issues, so, I mean, that’s my sweet spot as they say, that’s who I’m looking to meet. That’s who. Most of my clients are

Tim Melanson: Is there sort of like limitations on, uh, where they can live? Like they have to be in Florida in order to work with you?

Matthew Fornaro: no, because if it’s a, obviously, if they’re involved in litigation or the role in a lawsuit, yes, it has to be in Florida. But if they’re located elsewhere, I can still help them do things with [00:26:00] their business.

Tim Melanson: Excellent. So how do we find out more?

Matthew Fornaro: The best way to get ahold of me or find information is to go to my website, which is for narrow legal dot com, which is my last name, legal dot com. And then it’s got links to all my social media, all my web presence. It’s got. All my, uh, podcast appearances, it’s got a bunch of how to videos that I put on there.

It’s got white papers and then it’s got blogs where. At this point, if you have a question, I think. Probably the majority of questions can be answered by just looking at my website and looking at the material on it.

Tim Melanson: Oh, excellent. So that’s fornarolegal that we said

Matthew Fornaro: fornarolegal. com.

Tim Melanson: fornarolegal. com. Awesome. Yeah, that’s awesome. And a great website with lots of tools on that. So make sure that you check that out, but thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Matthew. It’s been a lot of fun.

Matthew Fornaro: Yeah, no problem, Tim. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Tim Melanson: Cool. And to the listeners, be sure to subscribe, write, and comment. And we’ll see you next time on the work at home [00:27:00] rockstar podcast.