Harnessing The Power Of Books For Lifelong Success And Development With Nick Hutchison

Intro: [00:00:00] Are you a work at home rockstar or do you dream of becoming one? Then you found the right podcast. Your host, Tim Melanson talks with successful work at home rockstars to learn their secrets and help you in your journey. Are you ready to rock? Here’s Tim.

Tim Melanson: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the work at home rockstar podcast.

Today’s guest is the founder CEO of book thinkers. he helps authors to promote and market their books. excited to be rocking out today with Nick Hutchison. Hey, Nick, you ready to rock?

Nick Hutchinson: I am ready to rock Tim excited.

Tim Melanson: Beautiful. We always start off here in a good note. So tell me a story of success in your business that we can be inspired by.

Nick Hutchinson: Well, I’ll tell you what, my agency hosted its first ever in person event for authors last year. And to keep things in the music theme here, I want to tell a quick story. When I was in high school, I went to a Maroon 5 concert with my family and a couple of my [00:01:00] friends, and Maroon 5 was one of my favorite bands growing up.

I really enjoyed their music. The album Songs About Jane, one of my all time favorite albums. And that was a really fun kind of big moment for me when I was younger. And I always, when I think about that period of my life, that pops up, well, fast forward a few years, I had Ryan Dusick, the original drummer from Maroon five at my event, speaking on stage with me because he put out a book called harder to breathe.

Just talk about a rockstar moment for me going from attending a concert and thinking, wow, like what an amazing group of people. This is listening to their music all the time to spending a lot of time, three, four days hanging out with. Ryan and then interviewing him on stage at my own event. Like what a cool success story.

Tim Melanson: That’s so awesome. Man, world five was your high school, eh? I’m old.

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I just turned 30. But what I like to say is if you include all the books behind me, which condense decades of somebody else’s [00:02:00] greatest life lessons and experience into days, and I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of them, if you count that, then I’m thousands of years old. So that’s what I like to look at it.

Tim Melanson: Well, and you know, it’s quite impressive because even in my generation, very few people read and you’re 15 years younger than I am. So. it does make a massive difference, especially reading.

I’ll ask you that question. What do you think is the difference between reading a physical book you’ve got behind you and maybe an audio book?

Nick Hutchinson: Well, 80 percent of the inputs to our brain, 80 percent are visual. So by default, if you’re only listening to a book on Audible or something like that, I think you’re at a slight disadvantage if your goal is to retain and implement the material to change your behavior.

I mean, I live in the world of. Personal development, nonfiction, business type books, and so if your goal is to use the book to make progress in your life or solve a problem, I think you’re better off reading a physical paper book [00:03:00] simply because you can develop a relationship to the information more efficiently.

You can store it and access it again more efficiently. Reading a physical paper book is an act of mono tasking, the opposite of multitasking, So focusing on one thing at a time. Whereas most of us, when we listen to audiobooks, we’re multitasking, we’re at the gym, we’re doing chores, we’re doing busy work.

So, you know what? I’m a big fan of both modalities. I think that they offer, different, unique benefits. But I think, from an efficiency standpoint, it’s better to read a physical paper book. What about you? What are your thoughts?

Tim Melanson: Well, I’m in a full agreement with that. I’m definitely supportive of both because, you know, being able to multitask is huge, I mean, to be able to go, you know, do your walk or do your exercise or go get groceries and, you know, whatever you’re doing, driving, and you’re also listening to something and that’s fantastic.

But I have noticed that, you know, sometimes I’ll have to listen to an audio book multiple times. And. You know, every time you’re catching a [00:04:00] whole bunch more stuff that you missed, right? And that kind of makes sense, right? Because you were doing something else. Maybe your focus was over here. You didn’t get all that stuff.

But I find that when you’re actually reading that physical book. You know, I rarely read multiple times, you kind of get what you need out of it. And then the other part of it too, is that I found that when I was reading the physical book, I knew when I was missing something. Like I get to the end of the page and I’d be like, Oh, I wasn’t really paying attention.

You go back right away. Whereas with the audio book, I don’t find that I noticed that as much. It just kind of like rolls to the next thing

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah. And you know what? I still listen to a lot of audio books. But I choose to listen to biographies, autobiographies, fictional stories, maybe books that satisfy curiosity rather than like teach me a life skill or solve a problem.

So I think a little bit of it is just the choice. And also, you know, big books, even working in the industry full time and reading like [00:05:00] 50 to 100 books a year, they still intimidate me, you know, books more than like four or 500 pages. So I’ll choose to listen to those books instead as well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, exactly.

And I like when I’m listening to a book, I find like sometimes it’s like more of like a pump up thing. Like I find like I get inspired by listening to an audio book more than retaining the actual information that’s in it.

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, that that happens to me with events as well. So I enjoy attending like personal development or business style events.

And it’s never to learn from the person on stage. It’s to be in the headspace to make bigger decisions. To be in the right head space, to be confident, to be the boldest version of myself. And I think that’s a cool byproduct of listening to audiobooks or attending in person events.

You know, it’s not the retention piece that changes your life. Most of the time, it’s just being around that energy.

Tim Melanson: Right. Okay. Well, Nick, I hate to be a downer here, but we have Huck with a bad note too. You know, sometimes things don’t go as planned. [00:06:00] So can you share with me something that didn’t go as planned for you and how we can recover?

Nick Hutchinson: When I was first starting my agency, BookThinkers, I had a totally different idea for what the business was going to be. I originally set out to build a mobile application that non fiction readers could use to retain and implement more from the books they were reading. You could store your favorite takeaways from each book.

You could see what your friends were reading. And I got together with a couple of my friends. And we spent tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of our time building this out and outsourcing the build to a company overseas. And at the end of that journey, years later, we had nothing to show for it.

You know, so I learned quite a few lessons as a recent college graduate. one was, it always takes longer than you think it’s going to. I thought, Hey, we’ll build this app. It will go seamlessly. We’ll make a million dollars next year. Not the case. It always takes longer. Then you think it’s going to and the other kind of core underlying lesson that [00:07:00] relates to that is that slow and steady wins the race here.

I built a successful agency. It’s a healthy business. I’ve got 10 people on my team. I serve people in an amazing way, constantly trying to over deliver, but it was a very different direction. I think the other lesson that I learned is that failure is part of business. You know, you’re taught.

Down here in the U. S. and the traditional education system, and I’m sure north of the border up in Canada as well, that as a student, failure is a bad thing. You’re taught to avoid failure, fall in line, think the same way that your teachers think. You’ll get penalized if you answer things incorrectly or maybe have a different opinion.

but in the world of business, the opposite is true. Failure is the best teacher. Failure gives you data and you use that data, you reflect on it, you iterate and you change and that’s what leads to success. And so now I’ve come to expect failure as part of operating a business.

And when you expect something to happen, it doesn’t [00:08:00] surprise you. It doesn’t shift you into a negative spiral. And man, I welcome failure. You know, I know it’s around every corner and that’s okay. That’s what I like about being a business owner.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, I remember when I used to work in like straight up sales and we used to have these no goals, you know, how many no’s you’re going to get today rather than how many yeses.

And, you know, it’s just such a thing that throws you upside down. Cause I mean, like you say, I mean, we’re sort of like brainwashed into thinking that failure is a bad thing and, you know, knows are supposed to depress you and stuff like that. But if you create the goal to get so many no’s, then it’s like, Yay.

I thought, you know, today, you know, it kind of like changes the way you think a little bit. Right.

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I did a, I had a door to door sales job when I was in college and we were counting nos, you know, if, if it took 200 doors or I don’t remember what the actual numbers were, but let’s say it takes 100 doors to set up an estimate.

Well, every single [00:09:00] no is getting you closer to a yes. Like the goal is. 300 doors, not three yeses. And that’s a lead measure. You have control over it, not a lag measure, which is an outcome. So yeah, I agree. You look at the nose as just part of the process.

Tim Melanson: Love it. So now you actually been working from home for quite a while now.

So tell me some things that we can implement into ours.

Nick Hutchinson: Well, I’d like to tell everybody a little bit about a concept that I wrote about in my book, Rise of the Reader. The concept is titled Play Bigger Triggers, PBT for short.

And Play Bigger Triggers are environmental cues that you insert into your environment that reinforce positive frames of thinking. And so, for example, I have a bunch of motivational wall art that sits behind my desk. Things that, when I look at them, I feel inspired. Positive messages that, again, reinforce the person I’m becoming.

And my office space is filled with them. I mean, You can’t help but walk up into my [00:10:00] office space and feel like, holy smokes, this is a pretty cool vibe.

I’ve got souvenirs all over the shelves from the places that I’ve traveled in the experiences that I’ve had. I’ve got bright colors. I have a meditation chair over in the corner with my red light. I’ve got my PEMF mat, my infrared mat over there in my reading corner. And you know a couple of couches I actually have some home gym equipment to get the blood flowing if I ever feel like I Need to wake up during the workday.

I’ve got a cooler full of my favorite drinks. I’ve got all my snacks. So it’s like This is my spot and I’m the most productive and the most energetic in my spot and I’m so happy to call it my jam room.

Tim Melanson: awesome. And I mean, I think that when we talk about motivation and even like willpower, right?

I’ve noticed that people that have the Willpower of the people that just set their lives up rather than like, it’s not like not, you know, a bunch of junk food when they’re on a diet all around and they just like sit it on their desk and go, I’m not [00:11:00] going to eat it. It’s the exact opposite. They don’t have it anywhere near them.

Right. And it sounds like you’ve got something like that set up too. Right.

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, one of my coaches, he says, he sort of looks at strategy and willpower as, the two factors that make up, let’s say, 100 percent scale. And so, the more strategy you have, the less willpower you need. The less strategy you have, the more willpower you need.

And so for me, I love setting up an environment that is productive and energizing and positive and uplifting, you know, my wife and I were looking for new home a couple of years ago, and we looked at a bunch of new builds in the area. And a lot of them had office space, but it was in the basement.

And I just, you know, sometimes we invite authors to come over here and film in our, in my office space, my studio. And there was just this idea of like walking down into a basement with no windows that I didn’t love. And then [00:12:00] we found this space where you walked up onto the third floor and it was this big open space with a bunch of windows.

And I was like, That’s the vibe that I want to go after when people walk up into this space, they feel uplifted getting a little woo, but that’s how I feel about it.

My environment is infectious is contagious. It’s full of energy. It feels really good. And so I think that more people should pay attention to the environment that they have at home when working from home and really try to install play bigger triggers, artwork, souvenirs, things like that, that reinforce the way you want to feel.

Tim Melanson: I mean, you mentioned one band member already, your wife, but now tell me, you know, how do you surround yourself with the right people? And you know, how important is

Nick Hutchinson: that? I think it’s incredibly important. Jim Rohn is famous for saying you are the average of the five people that you spend the most time with and to take that a step further, if you’re around five millionaires, you’ll be the sixth millionaire.

If you’re around [00:13:00] five bums, well, you’ll be the sixth bomb, right? So I think it’s incredibly important to be conscious of those five people that you spend the most time with. So yeah, I have my wife. We just got married last year, so we haven’t started a family just yet, but we plan on doing that in the next couple of years.

Thank you so much. Yeah. And then I have 10 people on my team at book thinkers. Everybody believes our core values. Everybody believes that the right book at the right time can change somebody’s life.

Everybody’s already a reader and these are high achievers, but they’re also people that value a holistic sense of success. And what I mean by that is in this industry of entrepreneurship and business, I’ve met and unfortunately interviewed a lot of people that are very financially successful, but they have terrible relationships and they’re not healthy.

And I do not think that that is success. So all the people on my team, they understand this balance of freedom and the importance of [00:14:00] health and energy and having great relationships with the people around them. And then the money.

Tim Melanson: right on.

It’s something that I think more people should be conscious of when they’re putting people around them rather than just looking for a specific skill. Right?

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I think so. Another fun way to think about this is like if your friend circle.

doesn’t inspire you, then it’s actually a cage, right? And they’re folding you down. And, you know, I think that when I first got into this world of personal development and positive thinking, I was a little bit too quick to burn some bridges, right? I felt like here’s a good metaphor for it. There’s a metaphor at the beginning of a book called the mastery of self by Don Miguel Ruiz Jr.

His dad wrote a book called the four agreements, which is amazing. And he says, imagine you wake up and you’re at a party. And you’re sober, but everybody else around you is drunk swinging from one end of the emotional spectrum to the other. And every time you try to speak to these [00:15:00] people, they just violently, you know, lash out at you.

That’s how I kind of felt when I first got into this world of personal development. I’m like, there’s so much opportunity to learn and grow and be positive. And a lot of the people that were around me at the time just wanted to, like, drink until the sun came up, like, could care less about what job they had once we graduated.

And I wanted something different. And so I did kind of aggressively burn a few bridges at the time that I, I regret it was a little bit too much, too fast. So I think that, you know, what I’ve learned is not everybody in your life is meant to serve as motivation or a business partner or an accountability partner or a disciplinarian, like some people are just meant to be friends for the sake of being friends,

In the context of entrepreneurship or having a band, you want people around you that are serious and are fighting for the same thing you’re fighting for. And I think it’s important to be aligned on core values.

Tim Melanson: Hey, rockstar. I hope you’re enjoying this episode of the work at home rockstar podcast. If you didn’t know already, my business is creative crew [00:16:00] agency.

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The visitor doesn’t know what to do. And so you have to provide them with a roadmap that leads them down a path to wherever you want them to go on my website. I want them to be on a free consultation. So that’s why when you go to creative crew agency. com, you’ll see information about scheduling a free consultation.

Now for you though, go to creative crew agency. com forward slash free website audit. And schedule an audit with me and I’ll go through your website live and [00:17:00] determine what we can do to improve your conversions and make sure that you’re getting the business from your website.

Go to creative crew agency. com and we’ll

see you there.

Tim Melanson: It’s really deep. When you start to get into a person developed world, and I mean, Jim Rowan’s a good example, there’s a lot of speakers and, you know, people that we follow, and once you start to get into that and you start to think about, oh, wow, there’s so much more to life, all of a sudden you start talking about that to your friends and your family, and I mean, we really are indoctrinated into something that’s totally the opposite.

You know, someone who goes out and parties all the time is looked as, you know, look at even high school, the people that are out there really not doing a whole lot good, you know, positive behaviors are the popular kids. And you’re like, wow, that’s kind of weird. And then the people that are like studious, you know, are the nerds.

And you’re like, okay, so the people that want to actually excel, and I’m not necessarily saying that school is the [00:18:00] best thing that you should be excelling at. It turns out that, you know, A lot of times the people who don’t necessarily fit into the school system end up being bosses of the studious kids that excel in the school.

So I’m not saying that that’s the best thing to do, but you know, bottom line is that there is a goal and marks is the goal and they excel at it. They’re being put down for it. Anyway, I mean that you start talking to them about excelling in life and getting better and bettering yourself and, you know, I’m not going to eat this type of food and I’m not going to drink all the time.

You know, maybe I might drink socially, but not. Right. To the extent that they are, and they’re all putting you down for it. And you might actually have a reaction. That’s not necessarily good and burn out of those bridges. Hey, I get it too. And I’ve recognized, and I’m sure you have too, that necessarily that they’re not going to come around.

Cause I have found that some of those people that were, you know, having kind of lifestyle have. hit some sort of situation, maybe [00:19:00] they hit a health crisis and all of a sudden now they might end up coming back into your life. As someone that is looking at you and going like, Hey, I remember we had this conversation a long time ago.

What did you do? Right. And next thing you know, they’re back at you. Right?

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah. I think we all have the same potential. Like everybody on the planet has the same potential for good and positive behavior and health. And wealth and happiness, but you’re right like not everybody is at the same starting line right now I didn’t fit in either one of those buckets like I was an athlete, you know But not like the popular sort of jock drinking all the time type athlete And I was okay as an academic, like, here in the U.

S. you could take AP, Advanced Placement classes, like, I took some Advanced Placement classes, but I have, like, a 0 percent homework average in them, so I was like, I just, like, fought the system from both ends of the spectrum, I was like, this just doesn’t work for me.

Tim Melanson: it is interesting when you look back [00:20:00] at the students and you know what, I think one thing though, that I do take seriously is that I’ve read more now than I ever did in school.

Me too. Yeah. And that’s kind of interesting when you think about it. Right. I mean, in school, you’re like, Trying to, you know, build that system. I’m not going to read that. But then you end up getting out. If you meet the right people like you have and get into the right circles, next thing you know, you’re reading more than you ever did.

Nick Hutchinson: yeah, that’s one thing. I mean, I would never trade, you know, places with where I’m at today. Cause I’m super happy about it. But like, if I had a regret, it was not, you know, it was starting later. Like I didn’t start reading this type of material until I was 20. And you know, you could only like those what ifs are sometimes fun.

I mean, they’re not practical really to think about, but like the what ifs are fun to go back and think about sometimes. And it’s like, what if I really started reading and applying myself? When I was 12 instead of 20, you know, I’d have eight years of additional perspective in [00:21:00] language and a little bit more of a runway.

Tim Melanson: I was in my twenties as well, when I started getting into the real personal growth type stuff. And, you know, I wish I’d gotten to that in high school. And now I’ve got high school kids and I’m trying to push it on them. And they’re just, you know, I think that in a way they’ll be better than I was because my parents were pushing this straight up school route.

Like you need to go get a university degree and all that stuff. And I’m trying to go, no, no, no, no. You need life skills rather than the necessarily the university degree. So I hope that my kids are going to like, take that a little bit more and go, okay, what do I want to do? I have a goal rather than the, just the goal be I’m going to get a degree.

Nick Hutchinson: Right. Yeah. I think that’s a great way to do it. And, you know, like I mentioned before, I haven’t started my family yet, but I’m excited to, I’m excited to parent and then also see how difficult it is, you know, and the rebellious nature out. Imagine kids not wanting to do what their parents recommend, [00:22:00] like, you know, it’s all going to be fun.

Tim Melanson: Well, you got about maybe 10, 10 years, if that, maybe 7 to 10 years of like, you can let them do whatever you want. And then after that, they get their own mind. And they’ll pretty much will do exactly the opposite of what you want them to do for a little while.

Yeah, I’m excited for it. Oh, it’s going to be great. You’re going to love it. Especially because I think part of it is that you’re a learner. So it’ll be one of those things where it happened. And rather than just going like, I think I know what I’m doing. I hit the books. I hit the internet.

I’m like, okay, I’m going to go do as much research as I can about the situation I’m dealing with and see if I could figure out the solution. And there’s lots of people out there that have experienced all the same stuff. So you will get the right answers or at least the ones that resonate really well with you.

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I think as humans, we make the mistake of thinking that we are unique and that our problems are unique to us. And that’s one thing that I’ve learned, whether it’s in business or my personal life, almost in any [00:23:00] domain, other people have figured it out. Other people have faced the same problems that you have, and then they’ve documented the solution and the pages of a good book.

So life doesn’t have to be so hard if we’re willing to learn from the mistakes of other people.

Tim Melanson: So tell me a little bit about getting fans and, the word out there, wording people that are in your audience to people that are fans.

Nick Hutchinson: When I started reading these personal development books all the way back in 2015, I’m solving problems, I’m building skills, I’m applying them to my role, experiencing financial success, healing relationships, becoming healthier. I was like, there has to be a community where I can share this stuff, and I really didn’t have one.

my friends and family didn’t want to hear about it. I didn’t have much of a social media presence at the time. So I started a new account, BookThinkers, right? And I started sharing the books that I was reading on social media. And I found my people. And over the years of just consistently providing value, I’ve been able to build a community now that [00:24:00] does over a million impressions a month organically.

We have hundreds of thousands of followers. And it was just brick. By brick showing up and providing value every single day for years, really trying to be of service to the community, answer questions, give free value every single day for years and years and years. And there’s a great book called The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy.

Have you read it? I have read it. Yeah. It’s the idea that small steps in the right direction over a long period of time will lead to exponential progression or disproportionately positive results, right? So the same behavior of posting and providing value every single day to a small group of people, eventually that same input, that same action.

As a much larger output. Right? Like I remember back in the day, I would be like insecure if a post didn’t get two or three likes. I’m like, Oh, you know what? My community didn’t like this today. And now something flops if it’s not seen by [00:25:00] 10 people. And it’s just funny to see how that’s changed over time.

Tim Melanson: Yeah.

Nick Hutchinson: But I think it’s, you know, that core message of showing up consistently and then providing value consistently. Those are sort of the. The ways that I was able to build that community.

Tim Melanson: To me, this is awesome. I feel like we’re in a really amazing time because, you know, if you look back even like 30 years ago or whatever, like you just couldn’t build a fan base like that, I kind of needed money really.

It was a matter of like, You know, throwing money on a billboard or whatever now it’s not about money. It’s about time. It’s about yourself out there and try to help as many people as possible. It doesn’t take a whole lot of money. Like you said, to set up an account and start, you know, sinking value into it.

And then that is what brings the people to you. this is like, Golden age is like, there’s not been a time like this where you could actually have no money at all. I mean enough money, I guess for a device and an internet connection [00:26:00] and go out there and build an audience, right?

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I mean, you just hit the nail on the head. Traditional advertising of yesteryear, it was all about spend. Today, it’s about effort. And I think that the tough thing is delaying gratification. I was going to say gone are the times where you just start an account and then all of a sudden thousands of people are paying attention to what you’re doing.

I think that you have to focus. There’s a great book called the gap in the gain by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy. And it talks about instead of focusing on the gap between where you are and where you want to be, you know, like your favorite influencers with millions of followers, instead of focusing on that gap, focus on the game.

Focus on the difference between where you are today and where you were a year ago with no account not providing any value With only a hundred followers and not 120 followers or whatever and that shift in perspective is hard Right not to compare yourself to [00:27:00] everybody else around you But when you compare yourself to the past version of yourself all the sudden comparison isn’t the thief of joy It creates joy and it’s hard to do You I get it.

But like, when I think back to starting my accounts, And again, being insecure when a post didn’t get a couple of likes. I laugh at that. I think it’s goofy. I’ve come so far from there, you know?

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s awesome. Well, you know what, Nick, it’s time for your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting your business right now.

Nick Hutchinson: Well, I’d like to reiterate that I just put out a book, Rise of the Reader, back on November 1st. This book was written for my community of followers. So, we’ve got hundreds of thousands of people, and over the years, I’ve received very similar questions from thousands of them around the reading process. So, How do you choose the right books?

How do you take rockstar notes? How do you implement more from what you’ve read and actually use those books to change your behavior? And the secret is, I wish I could have just recommended a book on that subject. [00:28:00] I wish I didn’t have to write it myself, but I decided to write it myself because there was no other competing resource.

There was no other available resource. So Rise of the Reader will help you get more from the other books that you read and use those books. To improve your life and so that’s my message. If that resonates with you, the book is available in every format, you know, in most online retailers, you can listen to it.

You can read it on any device. You can read the physical book, whatever floats your boat. So that’s what I’m focused on right now is the book.

Tim Melanson: So now what else do you do? Do you have another business that you can talk about?

Nick Hutchinson: Yep. So book thinkers is my marketing agency, which you highlighted in the introduction. I’ve got, like I said, 10 band mates and we’re helping well over a hundred authors a year promote and market their books.

So we do short form video content production, where we help an author turn their physical book into 50 or a hundred pieces of [00:29:00] social media content, that organic growth, right? That posting value every day. We do podcast booking. So placing authors on shows to talk about their books. And then finally, book reviews, right?

We have an audience of hundreds of thousands of people looking for their next read. And so we can distribute that information and kind of amplify an author’s voice. And if there’s an author out there who’s like, Hey, I could use some of those services, then feel free to head over to book thinkers. com.

Book thinkers spelled just like it sounds and it set up a discovery call. We could chat about it.

Tim Melanson: I love it. This has been a lot of fun, Nick. You’re definitely a rockstar, especially in the reading area. And this is really cool. I’m actually looking forward to checking out your book too. Cause it seems like a really cool aspect of it.

Actually, you know, if you’re a reader or you want to be a reader, this is probably the perfect book for you,

Nick Hutchinson: Yeah, I’d say there’s an opportunity cost to reading and not knowing how to implement it, right? Like, these books have the power to change your life, but [00:30:00] nobody ever teaches us that failure is a good thing in school.

And nobody also teaches us how to implement information, or just taught how to memorize it for a test, and then we forget it the next day. So, I think that we need to kind of rewrite. How we approach these books and hopefully my book rise of the reader is sort of a step in the right direction for people.

Tim Melanson: That’s a really good point. Cause we do have some conditioning around that. You know, you read the book for the test and then once the test is done, forget about it. We might actually be programmed to do

Nick Hutchinson: Right? Like I believe in the positive power of these personal development books and If you choose to read a great personal development book, but choose not to implement it, right? No new habits, no new perspectives, you’re not changing your behavior.

I would argue that that book was closer to a form of entertainment than it was education. And that’s not the goal of these books, right? The goal is to change our behavior, but if we’re not changing our behavior, Then there’s no difference between that book and Netflix or that book and social media.

Tim Melanson: not that there’s anything wrong with [00:31:00] entertainment.

However, if you want to get something out of the book, that’s the reason you’re reading it then. You something out of your book to learn how to implement that. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Nick. It’s been a lot of fun. Thank you, Tim. I appreciate it.

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