Unraveling the Art of Communication: A Conversation with Brenden Kumarasamy

Tim Melanson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the work at home rock star podcast.

I’m excited to be talking to another public speaking coach today. Very excited about that. He’s the CEO. And public speaking coach for MasterTalk. And, uh, what he does is he helps people to share their ideas more effectively. So I’m super excited to be talking to Brendon Kumastah. Brendon from MasterTalk.

Hey, Brendon, you ready to rock?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely, Tim. Thanks

Tim Melanson: for having me. Awesome. Sorry, I can’t say your last name. You’re totally fine. So we always started off here in a good note, let’s flip this around. Tell me a story of success in your business that we can be inspired by.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. Tim, you know, out of all, all the stories, I think the big one is my age.

You know, I started coaching C level executives and I was probably like 20 to 20, 21 years old. And I think the reason I was able to get there. Was because I built up my confidence from coaching a lot of people who are much younger than me. So I started with people who were teenagers, then I coached people my own age, and then I built up the confidence over time to coach those types of people.

And it’s amazing to see the results we’ve [00:01:00] gotten. People like, one example was, is this woman in Montreal and she’s the CEO of this tech company for fingernails, but it’s, it’s like tech. So you can like look up your phone and change the color of the fingernail. And she was really shy and we helped her out.

Tim Melanson: Wow. That’s actually pretty cool tech too. Yeah. So it’s like smartphone activated stuff

Brenden Kumarasamy: too, or you got it. So, so basically what happens is like you could go on your phone and then pick any design from like fan made designs and you don’t have to change your nail polish. So it’s really cool for, especially for women who, who use this a lot.

Tim Melanson: Cool. So now, and then, I mean, that sounds like a cool idea that would almost even sell itself, but it doesn’t. Right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: You would think, man, you know, you know what I learned from a lot of my mentors is half of the battle is knowing how to sell the idea and the other half is making something great. But if you have something great, but nobody hears about it, you know, it’s really difficult for you to

Tim Melanson: scale.

Yeah, exactly. And, and a lot of times too, isn’t it, [00:02:00] isn’t it difficult to talk about your own idea to other people too, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: That’s true. Absolutely, because we’re self conscious about it because we don’t want to brag about ourselves to other people. And the other reason, which is less commonly known to him is like, you spend so much time in the business yourself that, you know, all the knits and bolts and all the little nitty gritty details that when you go out and communicate it back to the world.

You add in all of these unnecessary details that the general public doesn’t care about. Like one example is like Netflix. So the guy who was running Netflix, you know, read Hastings and a C suite team. They’re probably looking at their algorithm for Netflix and going, how do we tweak this to make sure that?

The customer gets the right types of shows when they’re watching it. But the marketing of Netflix is, are you tired of cable television? You’re spending 70 bucks a month on something that has commercials every 15 minutes. Why don’t you buy Netflix? It’s 10 bucks a month. It’s probably 15 down and you get unlimited commercials.

That’s the difference between the, the nuts and bolts of the [00:03:00] business and the marketing of it.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, something that you think might be cool is something that they don’t even care about. Right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. It’s probably most of the time. It’s

Tim Melanson: most of the time. Yeah. And I mean, even if we, we look into music as well, like I know that, you know, going out there and trying to sell my own band for gigs is so much harder than trying to sell another band.

Right. You go up there and say, Hey, these guys are great. Seems like, like people take you more seriously. Don’t they? Or, or is there a way that you can flip that around?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, I think the reason for that, Tim, is whenever we talk about ourselves, kind of like the law of reciprocity by Robert Cialdini, the guy who wrote Influence, is like, whenever you’re talking about yourself, it feels like you’re making a withdrawal in other people’s personal bank accounts.

Whereas if you went to a really nice burger place, and you’re talking about pe To people about that burger place. You feel you’re making a deposit because it has nothing to do with you. It’s more just you really want to help. And the only way to bridge to those two worlds is for you to really fundamentally believe that what you have [00:04:00] is actually really helpful for people.

And that takes time. Even if you have something good at the beginning, you have to really believe in yourself to eventually go like, Oh, yeah, this is actually helping people.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, it’s and it is amazing. I know that even. Like I host, uh, like jam nights and open mics and stuff like that. And what I find is really interesting is that the people that are most, uh, excited to get up there, like, like sell themselves the most are actually the least talented when it comes down to it and vice versa.

You know, I always, I always think it’s funny because, you know, if you have somebody who, you know, uh, Maybe their friend comes up and says, Oh, these people are really, really good. And you see them at the table kind of going like, no, I don’t, I don’t want to go up. And I think they have to understand they’re awesome.

I mean, when they finally get up on stage, it’s interesting how that happens is that the people that are really good or really, you know, have something, have a really hard time selling themselves. Whereas, you know, if you [00:05:00] just like it and you know, it’s not necessarily your thing, like you actually have an easier time going out there and saying, yeah, I really want to get up on stage right now.

Right.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely, Tim. You know, it’s, it’s so hard to find people who are actually good at both. Where somebody who’s really talented, but also really good marketer. So for us, for the, for the life that we have for the careers, really for the passions that we have in our life, we need to ask yourself, which bucket do I fall under?

And most people, I think really fall under the bucket that you just talked about where they’re really good at. It doesn’t, it could be music, it could be anything, but they don’t, they’re really afraid to share that gift. And I, and I wish more people did that more, whether it’s in the music space or a lot of the space I play in, which is like a lot of tech people who are like, who are really good at coding.

We’re always behind the computer and laughing at this revolutionary technology. Like that one I talked about earlier. But like, you don’t talk about it publicly. So then how people, how do people know to buy the product?

Tim Melanson: Yeah, you got to learn those things. And then, so if someone [00:06:00] went to your class and they came to my, to my jam or to my, uh, gig and they wanted to get up on stage, I probably would think that they’re no good, but they actually would be good because they know how to do it.

Right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. It’s that mix that we need to really bridge. So if you ever

Tim Melanson: do that, make sure you let me know that. No, no. I took a public speaking course. That’s why I’m confident right now. So with the good notes, sometimes there’s some bad notes as well. So can you tell me something that didn’t go as planned in your business that we can learn from?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh, for sure, Tim. I mean, so many, we could probably do our whole show just on, just on my failures. I’ll give you one in particular. So, at the beginning, when I was much younger, I was very stubborn about the way I wanted things done. So, so, at some point, I had this idea, brilliant, and I’m being sarcastic here.

Of sending emails to a bunch of university professors throughout Canada, which is a country we’re both based in. So I start, I start sending these emails. And the whole summer, Tim, I sent 500 emails every single day. I didn’t know how to automate this stuff, so I’d literally sit there for [00:07:00] like 4 hours, 5 hours.

And that sounds really nice, that I did that. But the problem is university professors are not a good person type of person to reach out to for what I was doing. So as the response that I would get was just a bunch of hate email. Why are you messaging me? Where’d you get this email address? You’re too young.

You don’t know anything about public speaking. But the problem is I kept going like any smart business owners should just go, okay, send a thousand of these. They clearly hate my guts. It doesn’t make sense to send another 49, 000, but clearly I didn’t get the memo versus podcast hosts. Podcasts are much better.

Person to reach out to. Why? Because they’re always looking for guests, and most importantly, they’re very open minded to new ideas and new ways of seeing the world, and they’ll support you. Whereas, uh, university professors, there’s exceptions, but not so much.

Tim Melanson: On the other hand, you probably learned a fair bit from all those emails.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, it gives you thick skin for sure.

Tim Melanson: Oh, geez. Yeah, rejection would be nothing for [00:08:00] you. Really? That’s all you got? I do recommend though, that, that people do do some sort of like cold market, like, um, sales stuff like that. Cause you, you really do get over yourself real quick, especially if you are worried about that rejection,

Brenden Kumarasamy: right?

Oh, 1000%. You know, the, you know, I’ve always believed him. Rejection is like a muscle that you work out at the gym. And, and the thing is, is like. All of us know how to deal with rejection, because when we were three years old and four years old, and we’d go up to our parents, and we’d ask for cookies, and they’d say, No, we always keep asking for cookies.

We don’t stop. We’d be relentless six, seven, eight times, and at the eighth time, they’d say, Okay, eat your damn cookie. But we, it’s not that we’d never have the muscle is that we forget to train it as we get older. So it gets lumpy when you stop working on it. Whereas if we start doing that again, and we start really working back at the gym, we’ll realize we’re actually pretty good at dealing with rejection.

We’re just, we just don’t realize it. When we get older,

Tim Melanson: I still ask for cookies. [00:09:00] I do too. You’re great. So I mean, and that kind of leads into the next topic, which is about practicing practice makes perfect and practice makes progress. You know, tell me about some of the routines, rituals, some of the things that you do to just stay

Brenden Kumarasamy: up on your game.

Yeah, for sure. Tim, especially in the context of what I’m in, which is communication, you know, I really believe. Like music, anybody could be great at music. Anybody could be a great, great at communication. You just have to put in the time to figure out what your style is and put the reps in the gym. Kind of like you would in an actual gym when you’re working out.

So I’ll give you a few of those routines. I’ll give you one in particular. It’s called the random word exercise. You take any word, like, uh, phone, or tissue box, or royal, or wall, and you create random presentations out of thin air. And if you just do this a few times a day, you take soap, you take light, you take home, you get really good at dealing with uncertainty.

So what I tell people is if you can make sense out of nonsense, you could make sense out of [00:10:00] anything. And if you just do that a few times a day, you’ll be really, really good at impromptu speaking. That’s a

Tim Melanson: really good idea. And there’s, what do you have nonsense to make sense out of too? That’s awesome.

That’s a really good idea. So what about tools? Are there any like, uh, things that you use to get

Brenden Kumarasamy: success in your business? Yeah, for sure, Tim. Lots of different tools. I’ll give you a couple of what I think underrated. So one is virtual sticky notes on your computer. So a lot of people use physical sticky notes.

The problem is there’s a lot of sticky notes on your computer. You don’t know what to do next. Whereas what I do is I have a big virtual. Sticky note where I write down my top five priorities and I just start crossing off the list and it makes my life so much more efficient because I just opened my computer and already know what I need to work on next today.

So that’s 1 tool that I really like. Another 1 is Google notes when I, it could be I notes. If you have an iPhone, just a note taking app on your phone. See, all of us have the app, but we don’t really leverage it that [00:11:00] much. Whereas I’m an avid note taker, like I’ll have a notepad, separate notepads for different themes.

I’ll have one on how to spend my next 10, 100k in the business and order it and go like, okay, like, is this the right way to spend the money? So that way there’s not a lot of emotion in the decisions I’m making. That’s one. Another example of notes is you make a bunch of video ideas. So let’s say I have ideas for social media.

I’ll write them down on a specific notepad or if I’m at dinner, let’s say we’re at dinner. I’m in New Brunswick and we’re having lobster or something. And you give me this idea. I go, wow, I don’t want to lose this idea. I open my phone and I start writing the notes. So those, I would say are two big success tools for me.

I

Tim Melanson: love it. Yeah. I do share a bit of writing notes too, but now don’t they just get lost? Like how do you going and like going back to them? Like, do you have a

Brenden Kumarasamy: routine for that? Yeah, great follow up. So I, the answer used to be no, when I used to write notes on paper. So let’s say you go to an event, you go to a [00:12:00] conference, you have a notebook.

I’d never go back and look at the notebook. But what’s nice about the phone is you can organize your notes. So I’ll give you a couple of ways to do this in a way that’s easy. So let’s say I’m listening to a podcast like this one and the episode changes my life. So what I’ll do is next to the notes, I’ll type the word Wowza.

W O W Zed a, but you can use any code. And then when I’m there’s a little search bar at the top of the notes, I literally just type wowza and it’ll plop all of the best notes I ever took. And that’s how I study. Another way you can do this is you can title it. So let’s say I attend a personal development event.

The name of the note will be the name of the event. So somebody asked me, Hey, what was your takeaway from that? I just quickly look up the name of the event, pop the notes just come up like magic.

Tim Melanson: And I bet you there’s lots of great like AI tools that are probably coming out now to go through all that stuff too, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh, yeah, I wouldn’t know anything about that though. But yeah, I gotta, I gotta learn that new stuff.

Tim Melanson: Hey [00:13:00] Rockstar, I hope you’re enjoying this episode of the Work at Home Rockstar podcast. If you didn’t know already, my business is Creative Crew Agency. We build websites. Now let’s talk about your website for a minute.

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Number one is to provide information and build credibility. Number two is to schedule some sort of appointment and get them onto a sales call. Number three is to sell something like an e commerce site. Now, when you’re setting your website, you have to be very mindful that the visitor doesn’t know what to do.

And so you have to provide them with a roadmap that leads them down a path to wherever you want them to go. On my website, I want them to be on a free consultation. So that’s why when you go to creativecrewagency. com, you’ll see information about scheduling a free [00:14:00] consultation. Now, for you though, I’m going to provide you with an extra link so that you can get your free website audit.

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Y you’re, you’re making me think though. ’cause I bet you, I bet you there is, I’m gonna have to look that up. ’cause I like, I’ve got so many notes in my and they’re, they’re all of different things too. Like I’ve, some are just grocery lists, some are like actual events that I’ve gone to. Some are like potential song lyrics.

There’s just so much to go through that it’s overwhelming and yeah, I don’t even know what to do out.

Brenden Kumarasamy: There is, there is one thing in AI that I’m really, really fascinated, but then not a lot of people know about yet. I don’t know what it’s called, but it’s really this AI. You could Google it and figure out what the name is.

It’s an AI application that where you upload, let’s see, make a video on [00:15:00] YouTube or something, or like this zoom call that we’re on. You put it. In, in their device, in their software online, and you pick a language, let’s say German or something, and it plops out a video of you speaking German, and it lip syncs your mouth to that device, and what makes this so interesting is like, it gives opportunities for content creators like me and us, frankly, to literally reach brand new audiences without having to hire voice actors, without having to hire all the staff to redo all the videos, you just literally copy paste all of your YouTube videos.

In that language. And I think that technology is wild and it’s going to be huge. It

Tim Melanson: is wild. There’s so many, many really cool AI tools. It’s like, and it’s all of a sudden too, it’s so weird over like the last year, it seems like just lots of stuff has been coming out. I mean, these note takers that sit on these calls and you know, transcribe everything.

It’s just amazing how, uh, how many things are out there to just organize what you’re doing. Right. Absolutely. [00:16:00] That’s awesome. Okay. Now, you know, let’s say we’ve got a great message. We know how to talk about it. Uh, you know, we’ve gotten some great tools that are helping us to organize our thoughts, but now how do we make sure that the cashflow, you know, is positive?

Like how do we know what to spend money on? What’s not worth spending money on, you know, how to, how to make, uh, how to sell like all that stuff. Like what, what, what do we do next?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. Tim. So, so there’s a couple of ground rules, a couple of things that I’ve done in my business. One that I’ll, that I’ll mention again, because it’s so important is I encourage every business owner and you just, you know, it could be a hundred K it could be 10 K whatever the number is called comfortable for you.

And you just make a list of things that you want to buy in order. So let’s say on my list, if I open my spreadsheet and not my spreadsheet, my notepad, number one might say, spend the next 5, 000 on video production. And then there’s a why beneath, Oh, because I’m, my focus is growing on Instagram. I already know how to do that.

I just need to put more money into it. And then what I do is I take my [00:17:00] list and I give it to everybody, my best friends, my coaches, and I go, I want you to debate me. Do you think this is the right order? And if not, why? Is there a better thing? I should be spending my money. And then we fight. And the reason this has been in a good way, we fight in a healthy way.

And the reason this was so good for me is that my first year of business, one of the big mistakes I made was I spent over 20, 000 on live events because I got my first three clients from live events. But the problem Tim is when I backtracked the money and I said, how many clients did I get from attending all these events?

Yeah, I got some knowledge, but man, I got nothing. I got zilch. So then when I took a step back and I said, where am I actually getting these clients? I realized it was podcast guesting. It was just showing up and just sharing knowledge for free speaking in communities. Let’s say I have a friend who’s like an engineering coach and I speak at his community for 45 minutes online.

Or it was social media. And then I looked at the money I was spending all three of these strategies and it was all zero. And I was like, what am I doing? I should be [00:18:00] reallocating the money into this. And that’s, that’s, that’s the way I would encourage people to, to use their money more effectively and it’ll help them allocate the capital better.

Tim Melanson: Thanks. Yeah. It’s funny how sometimes we are spending money on things that we think we’re supposed to. Right? So that’s why we’re doing it just like just to be busy. And then other times we’re like totally discounting things that are not even costing anything, but are actually bringing us some income, right?

And it really does take a little bit of discipline to kind of go back and do that work to try to track things down, right? To figure out where it came

Brenden Kumarasamy: from. Absolutely. It’s, it’s the 80, 20 rule, but this time we’re applying it to money. And we do that so well, like let’s say in the case of music, musicians did this really well in the context of their work, where they’ll listen to a bunch of songs.

They’ll test a few out at shows and they’ll see, Oh, this one actually lands a lot better with my audience. I should release this next, but we don’t, but very few of us across any industry, we don’t apply that logic to money. [00:19:00] We just go, Oh, like my friend bought this. So I should buy that too. Instead of just looking at the numbers.

Tim Melanson: Yeah. Yeah. And we tend to like look at somebody else who, and this is probably a good thing to do in a lot of ways, but you look at somebody who’s successful in your area and you see what they’re spending money on and think that I just need to spend money on, on those things. Sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn’t.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Right? Absolutely. Tim. And the reason it doesn’t work sometimes is because let’s say, let’s say you’re doing a hundred thousand dollars in a bit, maybe 50, 000. And in, in, in the same business, you’re sitting in guys doing 5 million or a gal is doing 5 million. So the problem with that is they’re in a different season of business.

So they’ll have more money to spend on video production. They’ll have more money to do on this. So the better thing to look at is you have to go to that 5 million guy and say, yeah, but when you were making 50, 000 a year, what were you spending your money on? That’s the key. And the problem with a lot of people is they’ll apply the wrong advice in the wrong season.[00:20:00]

So, for example, it doesn’t make sense for anybody doing 100 grand a year to spend 50k on a website, like, I don’t know why people say to do that, like, it makes absolutely no sense, whereas the guy who’s doing 7 million dollars a year, yeah, okay, spend 50k on a website, make it look good, you might as well.

Tim Melanson: Yeah, and, and, uh, I think that’s really, really great advice, because you’re right, when someone’s in a different place, like, you know, an event, for example, that you put on that can draw, 500 people is probably going to see a better success rate than if you have four people, you know, like, it’s just, it just seems obvious, but it’s one of those things where I don’t know if we look at it the same way for all the other things that they’re doing, right?

Maybe that maybe they’re spending a boatload of money on. Billboard ads or whatever it happens to be right, even, even like social media advertising, you might not need to spend that same type of money. You could probably get further with just organic, [00:21:00] right? And, you know, it’s just at their, the stage that they’re in, in their business.

It makes sense for them to put that kind of money into, you know, whatever it is they’re putting it

Brenden Kumarasamy: into, right? I mean, exactly. Absolutely, Tim. It’s like, figuring out what is the right advice. This is how I listen to podcasts, actually. I call this Impact 3. So for me, it’s like, even if you disagree with what 90% Of some, what somebody says, whether it’s their political views or social views, the environmental views doesn’t matter.

And as long as you just say, what are the one or two things that Tim or Brendan has said today that I should implement in my life. If you just do that with a hundred different people, you will move so quickly, but with the problem with most of us is we’ll listen to a show, we’ll listen to a different season and we’ll go, Oh, well, I don’t like what that person saying, I disagree with that person saying, and that’s not really going to help us.

Progress and get better is what we’re

Tim Melanson: trying to accomplish. Oh, that, I mean, that’s the tip of an iceberg that is, I, I find very weird is that people will [00:22:00] judge the entire work of somebody by one thing that they said on one, you know, uh, you know, occasion or whatever. This one tweet that this person puts out, I disagree with that tweet, so everything they said must be wrong.

Like, that doesn’t make any sense at all, you know, if, if, uh, if someone just has a different opinion, I mean, it’s, you know, for me, a lot of times, okay, fine, maybe it’s something that’s personal to you, which is why that’s happening, but an opinion is just like, I like, you know, chocolate ice cream more than I like vanilla is that, does that make me a bad person because I like something different than you, like, it doesn’t make any sense if, if you, like you say, I mean, that person, you But have really great info that could change your life, but you’re now discounting it just because of one thing they said at the beginning of their talk.

Right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: A hundred percent. That’s why it’s difficult for most people to become entrepreneurs, Tim, because it requires [00:23:00] one skill, whether you’re in the music business, whether you’re in the coaching business, whether you’re in the baking business. There’s one thing that all successful entrepreneurs across all industries share in common.

And that one word is adaptability. The willingness to change their own mind based on new beliefs and information that they receive. Human beings are actually really bad at this where it’s like, if you believe that, Oh my God, I can’t get any business on social media. I have to knock on doors and I have to do this.

We’re going to lose to the guy who figured out social media and who made it work. Whereas if you can’t learn to change your mind, you just disagree with everybody. To your point, Tim, then it’s really difficult to come out on top in

Tim Melanson: business. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s a total other point is that people do change their minds.

Some people do. And I think maybe that’s the issue is that I think, like you say, a lot of people don’t change their minds. And so they just assume that because this person said this thing. Way back when that that’s what they [00:24:00] still think things change, you know, circumstances change what was true yesterday might actually not still be true.

And that person might know it too. Right? Exactly. Right on. Well, that’s awesome. So it’s time for your guest solo. So tell me what’s exciting in your business right now.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure, Tim. I would say two things that are exciting to me a lot right now. The first one is the social media content. You know, my mission with master talk is to make communication content free for the world.

So you make like YouTube videos on speaking. We make Instagram pages on speaking. So the easy way to keep in touch there. It’s just go to master talk in one word on YouTube, or you could Google master talk and you’ll find the YouTube channel pretty easily. And the second way to keep in touch is you can come to one of our free trainings.

We have like a free workshop of resume or be two weeks on speaking, and you can visit rockstarcommunicator. com to just attend our next free workshop.

Tim Melanson: Love your domain. Works perfect for me. [00:25:00] Awesome. Now, who would be the person that would get the most out of, out of working with you and out of visiting your, your, uh, your content?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. Tim, I would say for, for us, you know, communication impacts everybody. So I encourage everybody to just. Watch the free content, but in terms of the, the clients we work with, most of the people we work with are, are generally STEM executives. So they’re a vice president at Amazon. They’re an engineer at Boeing, right?

And for them, the challenge is they just make a lot of mistakes when they’re in meetings and they’re speaking the, uh, uh, uh, they don’t smile enough. So if that’s something you want to fix, then yeah, I would encourage you to get a coach, but if not, you know. Watch the free content and live

Tim Melanson: life. And it is super useful, especially for your confidence, even, right?

You know, just to know that you’ve got some skills and some, you know, you’re able to share those ideas a little bit more effectively. Uh, because not everybody is going to be able to understand all the [00:26:00] technical stuff that you’re trying to say and be able to realize that it’s a good idea. Sometimes they really do need it to be delivered in the right way, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. You know, there’s two games that we need to play. One is content. The other one’s delivery. So content is just what we’re saying. What is the content that we’re sharing with people? But the second one that a lot of people don’t pay enough attention to Tim is the delivery, right? It’s kind of like in a music concert where the music is the core content, but the deliveries, what does the Concert floor look like, what does the experience of the concert feel like?

What do people leave with? And if you’re someone who can master both, you’ll be both competent, but also memorable after the concert or the, the business transaction is done.

Tim Melanson: Well, yeah. And in most cases, in most businesses, the, the decision maker is not necessarily the technical person that you’re trying to reach in the first place.

Right. Like you’ve really got to. Kind of put it in their language,

Brenden Kumarasamy: right? Absolutely. And it’s been [00:27:00] easier for us just because a lot of my business is built B to C. So I don’t, I don’t really like some, I’ve had some success. You go to the business directly and you say, Hey, key decision maker, have your engineer work with us, but it’s a lot easier.

And I’ve, I’ve just had a lot more. Uh, luck. I would say a lot more, uh, a lot more success and just going straight to the engineer and go like. If you want to be a VP someday, you should really work on your speaking. And then they’ll invest some part of their salary into this so they can make more money

Tim Melanson: later.

Awesome. Right on. Well, thank you so much for rocking out with me today, Brandon. This has been a lot of fun. Likewise, Tim. This is super great. Cool. And to the listeners, make sure you subscribe, rate, comment. We’ll see you next time on the work at home rockstar

Brenden Kumarasamy: podcast. Thanks for listening to learn how you can become a work at home rockstar or become a better one.

Head on over to work at home. Rockstar. com today.